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Are we getting our Monies worth

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Marianne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2010 at 10:59am
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

<FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Perhaps you choose to internalize what you desire to believe? You are beginning to sound very comparable to Ms. Andrews, always wanting to attempt to be the smartest in the room Mariane. I just provided you with a 2009 bar graph which provided the medium income range for a city manager in the state of Texas. It also seems to be your ploy Marianne, to get off topic, try to change the focus, and then throw nonsensical statements out there for public digestion.


The nonsensical statements appear to be in your earlier post where you made a blanket statement about city manager salaries in three states. I quoted a source that showed you were wrong. There are city managers in Texas who make more than 150k, which you quoted as the "high end" of what managers make.

Why not just admit you made a generalization that was demonstrated as inaccurate? I guess that's asking too much of you.

I'm not sure how demonstrating that what you claimed is wrong is an attempt at being the smartest person in the room - I'm just trying to be the person who presents the facts.   

The Texas Tribune, like the Middletown Journal, posts salary figures for public employees. If you're going to accept the MJ's figures, then you should accept the Tribune's as well. There were numerous City Managers and Assistant City Managers listed as making above the 150k number. Your payscale.com bar graph doesn't refute those specific figures.    

But perhaps I am picking on you, and that's just unfair, mean, and a bit too easy. In the future, I'll ignore your posts with their obvious inaccuracies and trust that others will do their homework.









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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2010 at 12:03pm
As a sidebar to this topcal discussion now dominated by one-upmanship, I am on the schoollevy committee, and have had two meetings with/chaired by Ms.Andrew. I have always been alienated by her tone and direction in her editorial pieces and comments printed in the MJ. I know have an entirely different opinion of this lady. I find her to be friendly, open-minded, a very good listener, and someone suited for her elected position. She is making good steps towards co-ordination of the community to successfully pass the soon-to-expire emergency tax levys into a new continual replacement levy.
 
I would be skeptical and on the fence if still on the outside, however I am 100% in support of the levy, which controls 26% of the current school system budget. Rejection of this levy would criipple the school system far beyond any prior threats or actions, would drive many remaining quality students from the system(further bottoming our already low test scores/status) and add to our local conflict /confrontation issues.
 
We have a new super coming in who will hopefully make a very positive difference(why else choose him?), and we need to start out next year with a new positive and effective direction. I urge everyone support this issue in good faith, and expect the best from our school system in the immediate future.
 
Ms.Andrew is open, receptive and in dire need of community support and volunteer efforts. For some reason, faculty/admin/student support is lacking and not properly organized this late in the game.
 
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2010 at 12:11pm
Marianne (or Ms. Andrews), you have not dealt in facts. The medium salary for a city manager with six years or less experience is less than $100 KK in Ohio. It is a fact Middletown employees are grossly overpaid, just like Butler Cty employees. Don't worry about "picking" on me, I am more than capable of holding my own against you and anyone in the city of Middletown, believe me.
 
Now, it is a fact 100,000 is bigger than 50,000 correct? And is it not also a fact Marianne, a salary of about $75,000 is approximately 57% of the salary of $130,000? And is it not a fact one would expect if a salalry of $75,000 is appropriate for a city of 100,000., then a salary of $130,000 is too high for a city 1/2 the size of a city where the city manager has 2X the population?
 
 
    
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2010 at 12:42pm
Citizens of Middletown, haven't you all had enough of the "sky is falling" mentalility that occurs ebery 2-3 years in this city of endless entitlement, when you are held hostage to having the right to basic raods which aren't in disrepair, false insinuaions you may die if a levy may not pass for an alleged extra minute it may take to transport you to the hospital, or after seven years of platitudes and infinite chants of "its only going to get better and brighter", the staus quo continues and your pocket book takes another hit, while the enormity of overhead within BOTH the school district and city maintain a pace which hasn't changed in 20-30 years, and the dummy down talking points are spoken about all these cuts and positions not being filled? Haven't you simply had enough!
 
Middletown is one of the least respected cities in the state of Ohio, and many consider it in a large extent, associated with people who just can't or refuse to stand up for principles. New residents want to live in a community where people have backbone, stand on principles, and abide by ethics and equity. Now is your time to take back your city which has thrown you and yours under the bus for decades, using your money as they see fit, telling you the school system will be on of excellence, when limited or no progress has been made. That. in spite of pleas the school district will grow, the school system will improve, there will be a market for your homes as more are attracted to the city. Has that occurred? You know the answer.
 
Throwing money at the overhead never solved a problem, and Middletown's are enormous. Its time to send a message---enough is enough. Have some accountability for a change. There was only one person left standing after the school board spent its money on a national search. As it was an expeditious means to show change ws coming, you now are exepected to vote yes on a renewal to make life grand for the one man left for this position, after $250,000 was spent on a land grab, after you built new schools which altered nothing in performance. A vote no will say finally to those whom have destroyed the city in every facet, its time for a change, time fora purge, and time a few no longer destroy the city further. As importantly, it shows others whom might be interested in Middletown as a residency, there are the majority who can stand up and say, stop it, it isn't working, I'm no longer buying the hype and mistruths, and I'm retaking the city.        
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2010 at 1:14pm
acclaro--I am with you 100% WHEN the right faces step forward to provide  the effort, methods and ideas to move us in that direction. Hopefully it will happen soon, exampled by our two young Councilmembers. The seem to be effectively sidetracking the sos dark side approach long-championed by our Mayor, past Councils/Commissions/Administrations.
 
Constantly talking about it from behind our keyboards without REAL follow-through has taken us nowhere,  I would love to see yourself and Marianne more actively involved uo-front and personal, since you both have a lot of good ideas and the backrounds to facilitate change(also resisting the intimidation factor of the old guard who have buried us into this current situaton).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 7:06am
Sorry to disagree with you on the topic of the schools, Spider. Your post sounds like a carbon copy of the ones Ms. Andrew has been posting. She also mentions the new super hopefully making a positive difference and echoes some of your thoughts here. I find it interesting that you state "for some reason, faculty/admin/students support is lacking and not properly organized this late in the game." Ironic that the very people who will benefit the most, seem lackadaisical in their support. If they're not enthused, most voters surely can't be either. I also find your statement, "Rejection of this levy would cripple the school system far beyond any prior threats or actions, would drive many remaining quality students from the system (FURTHER BOTTOMING OUR ALREADY LOW TEST SCORES/STATUS).....Right there....."already low test scores"... an admission of poor performance and the school supporters don't see why there is negative reaction to giving the schools more money to continue the same routine????? What would change if more money was given? What has changed with the money already given? Anything?

We can't justify voting for a levy that would place more money into the hands of the people who have, in the past, used levy money to produce "business as usual" results in the past 20-30 years. Enough time has passed for them to have had a chance to right the ship, but the ship is still listing badly. As has been talked to death.....indicators are still at 5 of 30 with no movement in years. Proficiency scores are still woefully of the last place variety, salaries remain high throughout the system and there appears to be many positions that could be doubled-up on and several high salary positions eliminated, yet, there has not been anything radical that has been tried to change a thing. Ms. Andrew has mentioned a few new techniques that have produced some minor positive changed, perhaps, but nothing of the earth-shattering kinds needed.

Sorry to be on the other side, but continuing to give money to this cause seems like a waste unless notable, radical changes are made to improve. Perform....then we'll reward. In the meantime, let it go the same direction as Little Miami. Perhaps the state can come in, make the proper cuts to personel and make changes that will make a difference. May not be palatable to some, but it will finally provide some new direction. JMO
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 7:59am

Let's cut to the chase, Vet and others will not reward before improvement.....or after any performance improvement.  See: Springboro voters. 

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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 8:43am

"We can't justify voting for a levy that would place more money into the hands of the people who have,......."

Vet, the thing is you are not giving them anymore money, you are giving the School System exactly what they have already?
 
The only part I don't like is that this levy doesn't expire.
 
Also I am not clear on the fact that if Middletown Home values continue to decline will my taxes go up to cover the $18+ Million?  Can someone clarify that issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 8:54am
Pac:
I have clarified it over and over!!!
This levy is for $18.3 million per year, PLUS any new development!!!
 
If property valuations go down to the extent that the current rate no longer produces $18.3 million per year, then the rate will be adjusted to do so!!!  (With any new development taxed at the same rate, but in addition to the $18.3 million.)
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 9:09am
Thank you Bill, for clarifying that issue for us. Your crystal ball tells you that levy detractors will not reward after showing success, or are you just simply a mind reader? Keep on rewarding mediocrity and business as usual. Why, I don't know. If you keep giving them what they want, they have no incentive to change what they are comfortable in doing. Sometimes, inconvenience/hardship provides incentive to change.

Pac....I'm aware that this will just retain what is already in the school coffers. (ie-not raise taxes) I just don't want to keep giving them any money AT THIS TIME....(Bill).... for repeat performances of the lower quality type. Show me something that will make me want to contribute to the cause, that's all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 10:32am
I think MikePresta's post should be a real concern for anyone considering voting for this levy, and that is taxpayers will continue to make up the difference when property values decline. For those who haven't appealed their tax, you have until Wednesday, I believe is the 31st. Benchmark the houses on Curryer which have 1.3- 1.5 acres, > 3300 s ft, which are about 210,000. Use the property on Rosedale, where > 1 acres is at 40,000. My property will be dropping on all the data I have put togther, nearly $50,000.
 
To Mike's point, you'll end up paying more, as more foreclosures are lowering property values. We have one on our street which is from a very well known family (to remain nameless). that is taxed $70,000 below what others are taxed with the same size and lot.
 
More importantly, evaluate what has happened when the state comes in. They turn schools around, nothing the school board or any superintendant has done. Also remember that granted, the middle-class in mMiddletown was much stronger previously, but these testing and performance repot cards haven't bee in existence for 40-50 years. I do believe Middletown in the 60's-70's would be a school district of success but I doubt if even then, it would have been rated excellent.
 
This has reached the point it bears no further repeat: the system isn't working, and with the high probability of taxes being raised with values falling, in conjunction with a system stuck on CI, its time to let the state make drastic changes to alter its course and success. The problems are substantially at Vail and the high school: th new superintendant has spent most if not all his career in the elementary system.
 
Finally, Vet, maybe the teachers just feel secure that the voters will vote for this regardless, that Obama bailed them out, so why invest the time and effort. I have no idea, or mybe they are disgusted with the board and the new superintendant. That does't mattter to me. I see this as a black or white decision. Either you believe in throwing money down the drain or you believe in accountability and steppig up and voting for change, even if it is the state taking over. That has produced some pretty amazing results elsewhere.       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 11:59am
    This thread started about are we getting our monies worth? Since the only reason that anyone should get a city paycheck is to make Middletown a better, safer or more attractive place to live or have a business. Being the number one fastest dying city in the country (with a population under 100,000), which is another way of saying the least desirable place to live or have a business, it sounds to me that city government is doing more harm than good. I have dealt with many higher-ups in the city building, and it is my opinion that we have many people working for the city that would be over-paid if they received minimum wage with no benefits. The saddest part of this is that money is being misappropriated from street fund, sewer separation fund etc. etc. (money that should be helping our city recover from years of waste and poor government) to pay the bloated number of city personnel their bloated paychecks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 12:51pm
   Our "bottom of the list" performing schools are the result of the citizens of Middletown always rewarding failure. Look at our city building with it huge salaries and benefits and Middletown being on Forbes fastest dying list. Look at our schools who the last time they ran a levy were number 51 in highest per pupil cost in the state and number 599 in performance in the state out of 612 districts. Some said "you get what you pay for" I only wish that were true (we would have #51 best schools or pay some of the lowest property taxes in the state). MCSD has been more interested in getting more money than in educating our children. Price was hired because he had gotten major levies past at his last school district. Price was payed at least two major bonuses and extended his contract because he got levies passed, while taking our schools from low medium to some of the lowest performing schools in the state. MCSD gave control of our tech school to Butler Tech and kept the money that the citizens had voted in to pay for the tech school (this also allowed Butler Tech to put an unvoted tax on your property. See for yourself on your property taxes.) Also, the school board allowed Price to cut hours and bussing (hurting an already failing system) in 2007 even though the schools were funded for that year and the money from the levy was not collected until 2009 (property taxes are payed in arrears). After the last levy passed the proficiency scores continued to go down. Middletown voted in a levy to fully fund building new schools. I asked about the state giving matching funds and was told that MCSD had received matching funds from the state. Since that meant that building new schools was double funded, I asked about where the money went, I was told that MCSD did not receive matching funds. Honest answers are hard to come by from the city or the school district.
  One question I would like answered is about emergency levies. We have been told that the reason for these levies is that the state doesn't cut funding if they use emergency levies. So when they change from emergency levies to permanant levies the state will cut their funds to our schools. So the schools end up with less state funding and more local funding. Sounds like a great plan for tax payers of Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 1:38pm

Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

To Mike's point, you'll end up paying more, as more foreclosures are lowering property values.
It’s not quite that simple!!!

If every one of the “current properties” in the district declines in assesed value at the same proportional rate, then as the rate rises, everyone will end up paying the same total amount of property tax for the schools.

Individual owners of “current properties” end up paying a higher dollar amount only in certain cases.

One example might be: If all of the “current properties” in one area drop while others remain steady (or if one area drops much faster than the rest of the district) then the rate on ALL “current properties” can be raised (up to 4% per year) until the total amount of $18.3 million is again attained.  (There will always be only one single rate for all properties, whether that rate rises or remains flat each year.)

Another example: When the City of Middletown (or any other governmental agency) acquires property it falls off of the tax rolls. At that point, the rate on all other “current properties” can be raised (up to 4% per year) until the total amount of $18.3 million is again attained.

A great hypothetical (but not too far-fetched, given the gang presently shot-calling at City Hall) example: Look at all of the latest so-called “development plans.” Imagine CBL walking away from Towne Mall. The city will almost certainly take over that “current property”, which removes it from the tax roles. Then it will be subdivided (permanently removing it from “current property” status) andit will be promoted as Snob-ovia East , Marty’s plan for high-end condos, art studios, coffee shops, wine bars, and trendy bistros…oh, and possibly even a business or two--as long as they only hire six-figure artsy-fartsy types who ride expensive bikes and keep their fingernails clean. Of course, since this will be a NEW development, it will be taxed at the SAME RATE as all other properties in the district, BUT (there’s always a “but”, isn’t there?) those tax amounts will be IN ADDITION TO (and NOT part of) the $18.3 million!!! Ergo, start ringing up 4% more per year on the rest of us until we make up what was Towne Mall’s part of the $18.3 million.

I hope that I’ve made this perfectly clear.

And please note that I’ve expressed NO opinion either “FOR” the levy or “AGAINST” the levy. I simply want to be sure that it is clear to everyone what the issues really are.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 2:22pm

Congratullations Mr.P for understanding this situation , and explaining it as well as I have heard from anyone. Pretty amazing.

Vet/acclaro--I understand your concerns, and absolutely respect your opinions and intentions.
I am working for/supporting this replacement levy because imo it is still the best or only viable option available. A 26% funding cut will cripple the school system far below the past threats and conditions we experienced a few years ago. The probable polarization/threats/division/cuts wouls set us back into a spot far below where we are now. I honestly don't see a state takeover as providing any IMPROVEMENT, and would expect a much more costly end result if such were to happen.
 
The BOE/Admin/faculty has a tough job to measure up in standards/scores given the student pool available in this community. Our past city Councils/Commissions/Admin have sold us all out simply to preserve themselves. The Section 8/HUD/CDBG funding pays their way, and with encouragement from a few landlord cronies, has been consistently/quietly ramped up for the last 10+ years. The Public Safety, schools and business community has been devastated by the resulting economic conditions. Watch your Council meetings, particularly the sessions of the Housing Authority(made up of Council + Mr.Adkins).
 
Our prior Council re-approved CONSOC and hired the new housing inspection team, under the authority of Mr.Adkins. This marraige obviously hasn't worked well, as shown during the last meeting.
 
My point here is a need to understand the difficult position of our school system trying to properly involve and educate our students(and parents). Any major step backwards would be beyond devastating to our system. We have the buildings. We have good principals, and hopefully we have the right teachers on board. Will a replacement levy make things better or move sharply in the right direction? Obviously I hope so, or I would not be involved in working with the BOE. The consequences of a replacement levy rejection would seem to be far more destructive than any possible benefits that I can rationalize(VET/Acclaro--please explain just what we would gain by levy rejection).
 
I own a lot of upper end real estate in this community. I CANNOT afford ANY tax increases.
Still--I can afford even less to see the city take another serious negative hit involving further dumbing down of our school system and a possible decline in property values(could they REALLY go any lower?), and even worse--less interest in acquiring/selling/using current properties.
Example--if you can't sell your home now, just imagine the difficulty if our school system is taken over by the state and curriculum/activities are reduced to the allowable minimum. Do you REALLY think that result will move our schools and/or the community forward?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 3:05pm
Spiderjohn, I appreciate your civility and commentary. I will respond. I have seen my property plummet to a poaint that what I paid nearly 21 years ago, is what it is worth today. I know where you live, and I'll say my property is in one of the finer neighborhoods inhabited by several physicians (and not by the old hospital).
 
The entire school system has been a failure not only in Middletown, but elsewhere. Of course, there are some exceptional systems. But, your avocation of throwing $$$ at this problem is just continuing a pattern of waste with no solution. I have stated which I firmly believe, when a state takes over a school system, it improves. Your suggestion passing this levy assures no guarantee of any pending improvement, but speculation it could be worse. The best that could occur, would have the state come in, cut the system to the bones, because the district won't, and make change happen. My goodness, Middletown doesn't even assign homework and the kids do well, or drop out. I am at and have been at a juncture, enough is enough. Enough waste, enough of inflated overhead, enough doduble, triple dipping, enough of $250,000 spent on making partners at Frost, Brown, and Todd, and enough having five assistant principals supporting a retired principal at MHS. This waste and continued path to bankruptcy MUST stoip NOW, and especially so when the outcome is anything but assured, and undoubtedly will have little impact upon the performance of the school. And if it did, the student just leaves, marries, because there are no jobs in Middletown to be had, unless you have a nepotism senior administrator that can pull the strings to get a clerk's job at the court of appeal of police department.
 
Spider, I apreciate you sentiments. You are a lifelong resident here, and act accordingly. You want to give back, and feel a moral obligation because others who have been here all their life, or have husbands making their income, like Mr. Andrews physician husband in practice with Dr. Siewney, intend to be in Middletown forever. But lets evaluate the children of the movers and shakers in town. You won't find Mr. Sawyer's children here, not the Bidwell's, not the Armbrusters, not the Roberston's, not the Becker's, not even the Akers. They took their Vandy or Duke degree, or Miami, and are gone. 
 
So, the issue comes down to those whom have lived here all their life and intend to support the continuation of a failing system with status quo overhead, or those who have had it up to here with excuses, failure, financial loss, and simply say, I've had it, its not getting better, it won't get better, and no matter how much money I throw away, it isn't going to fix the problem. That's where I am, where I will remain, and I perfectly understand why you and Ms. Andrews, as you have such ties to the community because of sibling careers or vested interests, want to keep flushing money down the drain.
 
As I said before, you need not worry, there are such few who actually keep up with current affairs internationally, let alone in Middletown, enough will buy into the cloaked scapegoat of the firing of Dr. Price, he was the problem, we have change coming, without realizing the hired superintendant has no expertise in tun-arounds, has not dealt with turn-arounds in drop-out rates > 20%, because he is coming from an elementary backaground. Even a currrent cabinet member like Robert Gates, head of the Department of Defense, can assess a situation and say I'm not allowing hundreds of billions to be wasted on this defense plan or plane acquisition.
 
The turn-around will come from the State, and as Mr. Presta said, look forward to the future taxpayers, when you'll be absorbing more burden and increase, not maintaining only the current tax rate. Honestly, can anyone justify all these overhead positions, and 5 assistant superintendants at the high school. And spider, from what I have heard, the commentary about the current retired principle has been anything but glowing.           
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 3:19pm
Spider.....here's my response to your questions....

"Vet/acclaro- please explain just what we would gain by a levy rejection"

IMO, we would send a message , albeit a painful one, that the citizens are no longer going to tolerate the current operational mode of the schools. IE- no more money for the same performance. You must make radical changes for us to monetarily support your schools. The current situation must come to a head. It will be confrontational no matter how it is presented. Got to draw the line in the sand somewhere, Spider. But, to just blindly keep giving these people money is shear madness. It is not logical to reward them as if they deserved it. Why keep rewarding/supporting a known poor producer. Would you do that with a stock? It's an investment too, like the schools, right, Spider.

You mention property values decreasing more if the school levy fails. Hell Spider, my latest appraisal for my home went down $30,000 bucks! It's already in the toilet, but then, again, I don't plan on selling as I'm at the end of it all and fading toward retirement in the next 9 or 10 years. We have a ranch/retirement home that is maintainable and it is all we need at this time.

Furthermore, this topic puts too much emphasis on the poor school performance and perception as being the sole reason for the property values declining. Alot of things have contributed to the lousy climate/lower property values here besides the schools. Poor roads/infra., poor council decisions and city leadership is a joke with surrounding areas, no jobs, poverty town USA theme to the town, lack of business choices, no entertainment to speak of, ghetto image blight, etc.

No, I do not think that a levy rejection will "move our schools and/or the community forward" nor do I think that voting yes and giving them their money to do the same failed things will help either. But, then again, what we have now isn't moving it forward either and we're paying for it now. Why pay for this performance if I don't have to with just a push of the no button at the polls?

It won't change a thing as to school performance whether it fails or it is passed. It will be bad either way. It will just keep costing me more if it is passed. JMO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 3:22pm

Let me correct my mis-statement of fact before Marianne (Ms. Andrews) corrects my statement; " there are 5 assistant supers in MHS", I meant assis principals. One assumes there are 2-3 Assistant Superintendants, and each elementary has how many assistant principals? I read the Strategic Plan of the school. What word is most often used? IMPROVE.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 4:08pm
OK OK--I dunno the manpower at the schools, though I do know some of the principals. As for the MHS principal I find him to be very fair and competent. His hands were tied by the prior super. The Rosa Parks pricipal is making great strides there. He is a local, married to a local, and they both care very much. These type of citizens are our local future, and I hope to help them recieve every tool possible to right this wayward ship. Vet.acclaro, Mike P, myself--our time to bring change through significant involvement is probably passed. If you want to enact change by rejecting the replacement levy, you know exactly what course to take. None of us actually have students in these schools at this time. For that reason, you really can't call my effort self-serving. Not caring or caring into a NO vote simply doesn't seem to be a realistic answer to improving our local school system. Same with a state takeover.
 
As you well know(approx700 posts just on this forum), quite a bit of the goings-on locally drive me up the wall. You can call me a shill for the system--but do you REALLY believe that? I work for what I believe to be the best choice, regardless of which side of the fence it resides.
 
Property values are going to stay in the trash can around here. Try marketing commercial real estate(even for lease/rental) if you really want your balloon burst. I am a lucky guy, and I count my blessings every day. My businesses and my life have probably seen their peaks. Someone else's turn at the top end now. I can enjoy my home and family regardless of any decisions by the voting public or municipal bodies. I simply want to avoid any more moving backwards and public conflict. Thank you for taking the time to consider my thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 4:40pm
I certainly respect your decision and willingness to support a cause spider, regardless of what it may be. The state of Ohio had an opportunity to do uite well in funding, but lost out recently to two other states, Tenn. hitting the homerun. I occasionally chuckel at the prospects of the former superintendant  at Butler Cty Tech being a finalist before taking the other position. Can you imagine the "oxymoron", stating he wanted and believed a school district should be run like a business? Those words would not have come to fruition against the union. Perhaps that is why he moved on, as he probably would have been the top choice. Can you imagine a superintendant stating to the school board, he wants the district run like a business---lean, mean, spinning on a dime, and accountable. Pretty much the same words myself and others have said on this thread---echoed by the front runner in the superintendant position (in my opinion). And yet, the perception of the agreement is lost on others whom think $$$ solves all problems.
 
To bad this failed:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Let me correct my mis-statement of fact before Marianne (Ms. Andrews)



Two corrections, acclaro, but neither of the sort you were anticipating:

1. I'm not "Ms. Andrews" if that's what your parenthetical mention implies.

2. Marcia Andrew, not Andrews, is the BOE member. That said, I appreciated her posts on here and her willingness to answer questions.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2010 at 10:30pm
Marianne, as you can tell, I really pay little or no attention to either the school board nor city council members. I do apologize, I should have had my paralegal do her market research before leaving the (s) off, I am so sorry. I am also delighted you find such uplifting insight and guidance from her posts which strangely, she no longer feels compels to debate nor support her position and has enlisted others to do the bidding and what I suspect is the "heavy" lifting.
 
You know Marianne and spiderjohn, I wonder how much better the school system would have been and the burden spread, if Monroe didn't want to spread its wings and leave the Middletown City School district. They have a 24 credit hr requirement, more than Middletown, and a curriculum and graduation standard that is every bit as challenging as Fenwick High. Just imagine if the school district wasn't so bad, what the Monroe difference would have meant to the school district those now left behind, are having to absorb. I mean, enlighten us all, as to WHY Monroe left, did it on its own, and what a wonderful outcome they have had!
 
As Mark Twain said: "In the first place God made idiots. This was for practice. Then he made School Boards." No disrespect intended to idiots Marianne. 
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 6:00am
I've heard it said that "God protects idiots and drunks."  I've often thought: Why be only HALF safe??? LOL LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 7:05am
tough crowd.
Hopefully something positive and innovative will come from the clouds over the top of the doubters and doomsday militia.
We usually get what we ask for--so beware!!
 
Egocentric attitudes now dominate this site
A great reason to support using screen names outside of proper names.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 7:13am
acclaro- Unlike you, I pay ALOT of attention to the school board and council. Seems to create a mixed bag of comedy and anger in my, otherwise, humdrum life. Both are very interesting to follow as they attempt to function without the slightest hint of any common sense or direction.

Why did Monroe separate from the Middletown schools? As I remember, Monroe was satisfied being in the district through the 50's and 60's when the Middletown schools were performing and respectable. Things changed as the Middletown schools started their decline in the 70's. I believe that Monroe's position at the time was that they were treated as the ugly stepsister in the district. They got no money, no attention and were always an afterthought to the main body here. They wanted to control their own destiny and were tired of the continued lack of progress made by this district. Can't say as I blame them, really. Now, we all see they made the right choice and have made greater strides in the same amount of time. They wanted to build their education system and Middletown council is doing all it can to destroy the city's school system with their Section 8 crap.

Spider- egocentric attitudes dominate this site? Now why do you want to go and use those big college words around us workin' class common folks like that?
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