Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Friday, March 29, 2024
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Are we getting our Monies worth
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Are we getting our Monies worth

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
Mike_Presta View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: Apr 20 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2010 at 6:05pm

The wages on the list are reported TOTAL GROSS WAGES (paid by the City of Middletown) for 2009!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
Back to Top
TANGO View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Mar 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TANGO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2010 at 6:17pm
One other thing to look at for this kind of money, do we have top notch staff ,that cares about their job and are they worth it?   example marty kohCryler les landen...........
Back to Top
Bill View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 04 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2010 at 7:57pm
The numbers for NYPD are not even comparable when you count the inflated COL in the NY area.  You'd have to pay a NY cop 40-50% more pay compared to an Ohio standard of living.
 
Acclaro, the more you talk, the more sense you make.  You guys may make a MUSA curmegeon out of me yet!
Back to Top
rngrmed View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 309
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 12:40am

Marianne--  So I should ask my boss for a raise based on stress level?  Having 5 patients in an ICU setting?  Managing patients wtih several different medications for blood pressure and trying to get them home to their families.  When there is an issue and you attempt to call the doctor and they will not call back, but I can not make a medical decision.  Who do you think gets in trouble? The nurse. Not the doctor for not calling back.  How is that for stress??

Last time I called the police department someone turned left on to 122 in to the west bound lane and they were travelling east bound, happned about 10 pm at night.  I was made to feel like I was wrong because I didn't get an license plate number or an adequate description of the car. 
Let's not forget how many times I have almost been run off the road by a dispatcher driving a city car. Job is stressful because they create the stress. 
What about the cops that tased an ER nurse while she had her back turned getting medications out of pyxis at the old Middletown hospital, the bringing in their automatic rifles to show off?
Overpaid and out of control!
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 7:50am
Marianne--my response was based on the overall message of this thread.
As you rationalize the municipal situation, I was simply asking if you viewed this continuation as being sustainable in the long run.
 
I apologize if I am too vague or not communicating my thoughts clearly.
Though sometimes I think it comes down to simply not agreeing or accepting my message.
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:20am
Originally posted by rngrmed rngrmed wrote:

Marianne--  So I should ask my boss for a raise based on stress level?  Having 5 patients in an ICU setting?  Managing patients wtih several different medications for blood pressure and trying to get them home to their families.  When there is an issue and you attempt to call the doctor and they will not call back, but I can not make a medical decision.  Who do you think gets in trouble? The nurse. Not the doctor for not calling back.  How is that for stress??


Last time I called the police department someone turned left on to 122 in to the west bound lane and they were travelling east bound, happned about 10 pm at night.  I was made to feel like I was wrong because I didn't get an license plate number or an adequate description of the car. 
Let's not forget how many times I have almost been run off the road by a dispatcher driving a city car. Job is stressful because they create the stress. 

What about the cops that tased an ER nurse while she had her back turned getting medications out of pyxis at the old Middletown hospital, the bringing in their automatic rifles to show off?

Overpaid and out of control!


Not sure how many different ways I can say it, but I'll try again: I just don't think you can speculate as to people's stress levels at their work. Why is that so difficult to understand? Acclaro made a statement about city employees *not* being stressed. I questioned how he could know what they were experiencing unless he spoke with them. I wasn't suggesting they either are or are not stressed. I wasn't suggesting that people need to be paid because they're stressed. That's all.

Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:24am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

Marianne--my response was based on the overall message of this thread.
As you rationalize the municipal situation, I was simply asking if you viewed this continuation as being sustainable in the long run.

 

I apologize if I am too vague or not communicating my thoughts clearly.

Though sometimes I think it comes down to simply not agreeing or accepting my message.


I wasn't rationalizing the municipal situation just pointing out what I regard as basic facts about what people can and cannot know about an individual's mindset.

My initial point was that the data provided by the MJ without any context for that data is not particularly useful. I don't believe there's anything more I wish to say about it.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2749
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:39am
Individual mindsets are a personal issue to be managed internally.
Not all stress is employment-created, with the majority of stress brought from outside issues into the work environment(please leave your personal baggage at home!)
Personal discussion here is always optional, with this being a long-running topic that will continue on it's own.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:53am
Marianne- how much stress would you say is in the academic world where you reside? If acclaro comes from the corporate world, I can identify with his stand on the subject. I worked at P&G and at International Paper in the "epitome of corporate America" and can verify the stress placed on the employees at that level. I couldn't imagine the city building being close to the stress levels of the corporate world, particularly with companies like P&G or International Paper where decisions one makes/performance one has on a day to day basis, decides the profitability of the product and therefore, decides the success or failure of one's future with the company. I would imagine the turnover in the corporate world is much higher than the academic or the public employee world solely by the difference in the pressures placed on the individuals to perform to create profits for the companies, in order to survive. JMO
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 9:00am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Marianne- how much stress would you say is in the academic world where you reside? If acclaro comes from the corporate world, I can identify with his stand on the subject. I worked at P&G and at International Paper in the "epitome of corporate America" and can verify the stress placed on the employees at that level. I couldn't imagine the city building being close to the stress levels of the corporate world, particularly with companies like P&G or International Paper where decisions one makes/performance one has on a day to day basis, decides the profitability of the product and therefore, decides the success or failure of one's future with the company. I would imagine the turnover in the corporate world is much higher than the academic or the public employee world solely by the difference in the pressures placed on the individuals to perform to create profits for the companies, in order to survive. JMO


Vet, I reside in Middletown.

Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 9:27am
Vet, I have worked in the corporate world for 30 years- IBM, Boston Consulting Group, Chevron, and others. I think this discussion is beginning to take on the appearance of a clinical psychology thesis. Stress is not the issue. The issue is overpaid employees whom are not subjected to on the job stress. The pay cannot be rationalized objectively---the employees are simply over paid. One can manifest stress in any fashion. A celebrity can have an anxiety attak (Barbra Streisand) by getting upon the stage- stage fright. I driver snow-ploiwng snow may have stress, avoiding hitting a mail box at night.
 
The correlation with stress is tha in the private sector, the damnds for profit, meeting objectives, are enormously high, and much higher than the publeic sector. But I emphasize again, stress is not the issue, overpayment is, for what the contribution to be, and what the hrs put in to be, and what return on that activity provide. I'll glad trade by position for three months with city manager Gilleland. She can get up at 4 am on Monday, drive to Cincy, board a 6 am flight, fly 3-4 cities all over the country, and come home Friday. Then start it all gain on Monday, after spending the weekend doing reports and monitoring profit margins.
 
In Middletown, a $100 KK income would allo you to live extremely comfortable, and I ask again---what accomplishments in thre years have come forth? I know aht my measures are each month, what about the city? That slogan will be worth 5 years of job security. They all have seniority. That's why th public safety levies come out---they don't want to disrupt the natural pecking order. You don't have to have a Master's in Organizational Behavioal to see these salaries, the results, benchmark against surrounding cities, and realize how horrifically overpaid they are while the resukts have been to ruin our property values. The meaning of stress is significant only in the sense besides great benefits and lack of stress, the pay is fantastic. All things being eual, 9 out 10 would trade their job for  city job, where they can work, have limited pressure, and know they have lifetime employment, just like a tenured professor. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. When you add to the fact, the city is supposed to be hemorraging, reality and payroll simply doesn't reflect that!        
Back to Top
Hermes View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 19 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 1637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 1:03pm
Lets say this one more time....police officers, the city manager, and others in and out of city hall are over paid. The police are over paid because the city does not negotiate with the union apparently, it appears that the city just gives the union whatever they ask for, (and no I don't know that for a fact but I judge by appearances) are police stressed ? Sure ! Any job is stressful. It wouldn't be a job if it did not carry some stress, it goes with the territory. If your not under some amount of stress at work your not working !!
 
As for the comparisons I made with NY city and Chicago it was to demonstrate or illustrate what a larger city pays compared to a smaller city like ours. If Middeltown is paying a cop $80,000 a year then in actuality New York city should be paying the same position at twice or maybe three times that due to location. The cost of living alone in NY would justify an income of over $100,000, but Middeltown is not NY city !! People live just fine here on incomes ranging from $25,000 - $45,000 a year, yes they struggle but survive. (I wouldn't want 5 kids on that income)
 
Bottom line here folks....the city manager is over paid by at least $50,000 dollars...cops are over paid by at least $40,000.(if $76,000 is base pay) and you can go down the line and subtract $10,000 - $20,000 from everyone on that list to bring the pay into reality. I've said it before that union's are a double edged sword. A union can hold a company or a city hostage until they get what they want, at the same time had it not been for union's hourly pay & working conditions for all of us would still be on the level it was in 1910. We would have employers paying $2.00 an hour for a job that should pay $15.00. But good negotiating skills is required & is a must and you can't be afraid of a strike or walkout simply because some high priced union lawyer is making demands & threats.
 
When the tax base can not support the salaries & pay of city officials then you have a problem & we have a problem in this town !! The industry is no longer here...AK no longer supports the city....but for some reason people can not accept it. City hall continues to operate as if we have the largest tax base in the state. They are continuing to ride the gravy train as if nothing is wrong. And as long as money keeps flowing from DC money tree it will stay this way. When the money stops,and it will, then we'll all be making a thread on here asking "wonder whatever happened to Gilleland and that bunch that use to run the city ?".
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 1:29pm
Marianne- my question to you was where you resided as to career path (ie, academic field, private business or public service field) rather than where you lived.....but, that's ok, I realize you may be reluctant to answer the question. Actually, you have already answered it in previous posts if one would take the time to research it on this site. I believe you had made reference to the academic field....specifically as a MUM professor/collegue in the English department.
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Marianne- my question to you was where you resided as to career path (ie, academic field, private business or public service field) rather than where you lived.....but, that's ok, I realize you may be reluctant to answer the question. Actually, you have already answered it in previous posts if one would take the time to research it on this site. I believe you had made reference to the academic field....specifically as a MUM professor/collegue in the English department.


Vet, if I'm "reluctant" to answer the question - and I'm not sure there was one - it's because I don't think the answer is relevant. But to satisfy your curiosity: I have worked in professional and academic settings. In other words, my employers include corporations and universities. Unless it's directly relevant, and for what I've posted in this thread, it's not, I don't see a need for me to cite years I've worked, companies where I've worked, amount of budgets I've overseen, or any of the other details presented by others.

And I do reside in Middletown. :)

Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 3:30pm
Marianne- You indicate that you didn't know if there was a question. To clarify..... How much stress would you say is in the academic world where you reside? That is a question followed by a question mark for clarity. You know this as you are an academic, right? I guess you can refrain from answering a question based on the relevancy, but most people will still provide some degree of courtesy with regard to the source of the question. In the end, it's still your choice to not respond. I will respect that. If you indeed, have worked for corporations, then you are aware that the pressures placed on the employees are quite different as we compare the differences between public service/government, private corporations and the academic worlds. If you have worked for private corporations, you may have observed that the comparison between salaries within comparable jobs seems a bit higher in the charts presented by Pacman than what we generally see in private companies. Actually, IMO, the number of years worked and the places that you have worked would cement your work history diversity and seasoned veteran status in this discussion. Others in this discussion have given an overview as to their background as it pertains to salaries in different fields of employment. You seem to rely heavily on relevancy when offering anything to the discussion as if to conceal something. Perhaps not.
Back to Top
Hermes View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 19 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 1637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 4:20pm
I don't understand anyone that would defend the payroll in this town, unless of course you were related to the issue,i.e. worked there, married to someone who worked there, etc. Regardless of the amount of education in this economy & present condition of the city no one can justify paying these kind of salaries. If anything cuts are called for, not increases.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
Back to Top
wasteful View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 27 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 4:42pm
Right on Hermes.Thumbs%20Up
 
At the very least there should be a wage freeze citywide.  If the Unions don't like it, then the next increase they get start laying off enough Union employees to cover the wage increase for those left.  I will also not vote for a renewal on the Public Safety levy or a street levy, until the city starts listening to its citizens and starts getting its act together. 
 
I also see that ashkicker who normally chimes in on these issues hasn't.  Still wondering what all that Brass at the Fire Dept. is needed for? 
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 5:06pm
I apologize for the "double" post that appeared - the result of editing I suspect. It wouldn't let me delete the original post.
Back to Top
Marianne View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident
Avatar

Joined: Jul 13 2008
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by Marianne Marianne wrote:

Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Marianne- You indicate that you didn't know if there was a question. To clarify..... How much stress would you say is in the academic world where you reside? That is a question followed by a question mark for clarity. You know this as you are an academic, right? I guess you can refrain from answering a question based on the relevancy, but most people will still provide some degree of courtesy with regard to the source of the question. In the end, it's still your choice to not respond. I will respect that. If you indeed, have worked for corporations, then you are aware that the pressures placed on the employees are quite different as we compare the differences between public service/government, private corporations and the academic worlds. If you have worked for private corporations, you may have observed that the comparison between salaries within comparable jobs seems a bit higher in the charts presented by Pacman than what we generally see in private companies. Actually, IMO, the number of years worked and the places that you have worked would cement your work history diversity and seasoned veteran status in this discussion. Others in this discussion have given an overview as to their background as it pertains to salaries in different fields of employment. You seem to rely heavily on relevancy when offering anything to the discussion as if to conceal something. Perhaps not.


I can only speak to my stress level at various workplaces, and that's not something I think is relevant nor interesting to strangers on a web site. In other words: it's none of your business. :) I also don't feel the need to list the places where I've worked nor the number of years worked to "cement [my] work history diversity" for the purposes of this discussion. I said what I wanted to say here regarding the topics that interested me.
Back to Top
Hermes View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: May 19 2009
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 1637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

Right on Hermes.Thumbs%20Up
 
At the very least there should be a wage freeze citywide.  If the Unions don't like it, then the next increase they get start laying off enough Union employees to cover the wage increase for those left.  I will also not vote for a renewal on the Public Safety levy or a street levy, until the city starts listening to its citizens and starts getting its act together. 
 
I also see that ashkicker who normally chimes in on these issues hasn't.  Still wondering what all that Brass at the Fire Dept. is needed for? 
 
Well thank you wasteful, remember me in the next presidential election. Cool
 
As for all the brass within the fire department...I wonder if there is a set rule by state as to the number of officers for departments ? This could explain it, or it's the union. Not sure which.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 7:23pm

Jeepers, Marianne we all know who you are, you are the girl on the left. Celebrity does have its price.

Back to Top
wasteful View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 27 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 7:31pm
Yeah but I mean the 5 Deputy Chiefs and 8 Lieutenants.  Why do we need 5 Deputy Chiefs?
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:13pm
Fair enough Marianne. Further discussion is futile.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:25pm
Hmmm....first it was Ms. Andrews, and now Marianne, all who...
 
 
Back to Top
stewieboy View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
MUSA Immigrant


Joined: Sep 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stewieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2010 at 8:31pm

The salary listed for fire, police, and dispatchers include overtime pay.  Without knowing how much of it is overtime and regular pay any discussion about pay rate is unfair.  I know the 2 dispatchers mentioned in the list above worked considerable overtime because of employee shortage.

Duritch oversees the largest department in the city, not including fire and police.  I believe he has as a master degree and has been with the city for quite a while so I don't think his salary is out of line.
 
I have a masters degree as well and have 20 years work experience both in private and public sector and I assure you my name is not in the salary list.  I strongly believe my city job pay is 10-20% below industry standard.  I am not complaining because I like my job here.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information