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No Tax Increase

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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 11:56am
Hey sj, you'll have to understand my training to appreciate the debate, but if one were to pply your logic, Section 8 should grow, because the only to attract more residents in through Section 8, and otherwise, more houses and apertment units would be vacant, therefore bringing property value down. That is precisely your argument on the school levy. How would the failure of a school levy be more or less catacropic than houses sitting idle, with weeks and broken windows surrounding the exterior? You cannot say yes to one in a factual debate and say no to another, as both have the same argument. I disaree the negative results of the school levy would have further negative consequence than already exists. It might stir those sitting in Donham to do their job in ED, and save those already seeing a serious decline in valuation save money.
 
As Pacman makes a good point, the section 8 situtaion and the school ar directly intertwined, as much as one on ocassion, would want them seperated. If you increase section 8, which will occur for the arguments its better to have houses occupied than sitting idly, has a negative impact upon school performance. if you accept the notion the socio economic dimension negatively impacts school performance. That's the argument the school board has used.
 
In sum, you are correct: section 8 exacerbates a bad situation and by voting YES, we all absorb more tax burden as an outcome. You cannot bifurcate the two issues, they are completely intwined. As there is no stopping 8, using your argument others have made,, better to have section 8 renters and houses occupied, because of that benefit outweighing the detriment from homes sitting idle, as VET so accurately stated the solution then to be an ED problem. You can't have your argument both ways, as the logic in section 8 is actually more compelling than voting yes on the school board levy.    
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 11:30am
come on--I am backing this because I honestly think that it is the only constructive direction to take.
A rejection resulting in a 26% loss of funding would be catastrophic, and hardly needs to be explained in detail to those here who follow issues much closer than the majority.
 
Majority rules--if this levy goes down, then it goes down. I can accept the result, and will not be there this time to fund certain programs.
 
Honestly--if the library pittance passes and the school issue fails, then I truly don't understand the local mindset. The cavalier attitude expressed by the library board and their wishes, the expectation of emergency legislation of a tax issue, and the inappropriate comments and suggestions made by Council rep/board liason Mr.Picard really affected my thinking on this issue. This is a non-essential service in a time when priority services are struggling. The library can wait.
 
Section 8--I missed the meeting. I like Mr.Bohannon,Mr.Tracy,Mr.Faulkner and anyone left out, though their money train must no longer stop as often in town.
 
Tuesday's Council session should be very interesting. 
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 10:32am
Spider- if you're at the bottom you can't go much further down (backwards). Your statement about voting yes, then HOPING the education machine (which is currently broken in this town) will move in the "right direction" with new leadership.......I believe we taxpayers have heard that phrase before .....you know, the old "just approve this levy"....."help us make the change we need to succeed" routine. "Just give us new elementary schools with the newer technology and that will help us achieve better results". Remember that when they were pitching the bond issue to build the new schools a few years ago.


No, I'm sorry to disagree with you on this as I know that you are passionate about getting your levy passed, but "it is what it is" and "it is" not worth plowing more money into it on top of what we have given them over the last 25 years, just to maintain the status quo/business as usual unsatisfactory results. The school people need to show something....anything in an upward trend toward positive improvement to justify what they are currently asking for. Too many times, we have given them what they want on a promise that never materialized. It is time to bring this thing to a boil and cut off the money tap. Some of us have had enough false hope of progress that has always resulted in disappointment. This levy is rated
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 10:29am
Vet, your column (blog) answering the Section 8 issue is appropriate to why the levy must be defeated with a NO vote. Lets face it, for thoe with youngsters in school, its always the answer they wish to have---everyone puts skin in the game aka money $$$, that reduces their cost, and so they push the levies.
 
Sj, while acknowledging your strong argument on the Section 8 dilemma undermines the issue on the levy and his position. In reality, taxes will go up, as property values continue to decline, ED deosn't bring in the revenue as you said and sj agreed, and the existing base of tax payers get stuck paying more. As those outside Middletown will be fully aware of this dismal system, they will be even less likely to buy property in Middletown, so the cycle continues. As less people buy, and property values decline, exiting residents will see a tax increase---that's the reality here.
 
This tax levey isn't about having plenty in the work force, there are absolutely no jobs fo people, other than pumping gas at the 2nd shipt at Marathon or BP. Hence, the issue is not there is a voud in educated graduates, the void is no ED and no desire for others to move to Middletown.
 
sj's confirmation of agreement with you on 8 completely undermines the support he gives: we have a new superintendant (wow- hurray-lt the bloons drift through the air), while keeping the overhead in place with no cuts. Do you know how many $ Bb these school pension funds are already behind across the US? The system is exactly like the US Postal Service with results to match.
 
VOTE NO because it will do nothing to elevate scores, put protect wages, just lik the public safety levy did nothing to improve public safety and reduce crime. It won't get worse in Middletown: individuals will be more impressed the residents remained other than those with life-time resident cards, have taken a tsand, and said we are going to get this fixed.  Your section 8 comment made the absolute best argument fpr defeating the school levy VET. As ED has not done its job, and Middletown has such a tarnished image, all property owners will end up paying more and more. Why do you thinh AK and the Atrium left---for the reasons you cited. The facts weigh heavily on the NO scale, not YES. In fact, there is no justification for YES, other than wanting to keep a failing system in place without making adjustments. When they cut about 40% of the overhead, which by the way, would take care of the Algebra books as Ms.Andrew referenced, its time to vote factually and logically, and not because another wants his/her costs reduced by amortized expense. Springboro has shot down at least 2-3 of these, and their rating is still EXCELLENT.
 
VOTE NO.     
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 9:55am
smartman is correct.
we do not need to go backwards, especially to this degree.
 
factor in the potential increase in potential polarization, cuts, threats and negative pub(though failed levys are hardly news), and we will go backwards.
 
YES is probably the only positive constructive answer, then hope for the education machine to move in the right direction with the new leadership. How else can you view things if you want any progress.
 
A lot of help from parents would be the biggest boost.
 
I was an original supporter of the Dolly Parton Imagination Library.
I am glad to see it working so well.
MCF got this one right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 8:01am
Smartman- Who in the he-- is Lott Tan at ONN? Didn't have Curtis Fuller from Channel 5. Had Karin Johnson at the house. She contacted us for a follow-up visit and I told her no. Didn't like her lack of coverage from the anti-levy side of things. Glad you had good experience. Apparently, they must really like you pro-levy folks. After all, voting for all levies is the popular thing to do in some circles. Good for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 7:56am
Big difference Smartman when people paid for my education and today. Back then, the people got something for their money- performance and a well established, credidible school system. The schools were actually worth the money back then. Don't have that today. Oh, by the way, I'm a home owner too so I'm suffering on devaluation with the rest of the owners. As to being independently wealthy??? Is that why I'm still working at age 61, with at least 8 more years to go, giving me a total of 51 total working years before I can even think of retiring? Price is gone....so what....it's a lousy school system now with or without him. It was screwed up before he came on board, during his time here and is still screwed up after his departure. Won't change until the people change what they are currently doing. Until they change, what is the purpose in financing their failed ways? Those that own homes have no choice but to vote yes???? What? Hate to burst the bubble on your theory, but here is one homeowner who will vote no until they give me some performance improvements. Oh, I did have a child go through this school system in the 80's/90's. Wasn't worth a crap then either. He's doing much better in college, no thanks to the educational experience he received in the Middletown schools. I was surprised he wanted to continue his education knowing the handicap he was under in this school system. It's going to take a lot more to turn this city around than to finance a mediocre school system, by the way. The Middletown school system has created, on their own, a poor performing reputation. It has not come because we didn't fund the schools. He--. we built you new elementaries a few years ago. Latest technology was going to turn it around they said. Where's the improved performance we were told we would get from these schools? Go ahead and vote yes. If you are content with the current state of affairs and want to reward below average results, that's your choice. Don't understand the logic, but have at it. Now, you go out and have yourself a nice day, Smartman!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 15 2010 at 1:05am
Smartman, please explain to me how voting for this levy guarantees that businesses will come to Middletown.  Also, how voting for this levy will guarantee that my property values will increase.  Also, if the levy fails doesn't that mean my taxes will decrease?  I've already lost 20k on my house, what's a couple more thousand?  Please explain to me how it is always the taxpayer's fault that some business didn't come to town because tax payers are tired of giving their hard earned to the city to waste on their business plans.  For example, giving money to Middletown Custom Cabinets.  That is our tax money, yet we are buying property for them, giving them money to move, yet our houses are being forclosed on with no help. Our streets are in disrepair and I only hear some talk.  122 has been started, but now it is stopped with no signs of work in months from the Dixie Hwy intersection.  Will voting for this levy fix any of this?  Will the schools continue to waste money in some stupid landgrab and they tell me they are broke?
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Smartman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 7:29pm
Oh by the way Vet, sorry about your experience with Channel 5, my experience was very good, Curtis Fuller is a great guy. Oh and did I mention Lott Tan with ONN, he was at our home 5 times during 2007. Good experience here too!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 7:11pm
Nice statement on you part Vet! You got what you wanted Dr Price is gone. So on that note lets vote the levy down so the new guy starts in the hole of 26% less. Lets vote down so it guarentees nothing will come to town! Lets vote it down so property values drop even farther! Thats OK cuz you are independantly weathy and property values dont bother you! You do not have a child in school that is number 1 in her class because of teachers that care! Vote it down to deny those students that succeed chances to learn more, participate in activities that provide college opportunities. Thats right Vet lets show'em and vote no!!!!! As of this moment those that own homes have no choice but to vote yes. This is our last chance to try to turn this town down. We cant sell our homes and move without losing our asses now. So yeah Vet lets Vote NO! I put you in thge same category as the idiots that are running this town! I'm voting yes because my family has a lot to lose. Vet, too bad you dont have a child in school, you would understand the importance. Just remember in the day like you refer too, folks paid for your education, believe it or not the cost was the same, when you figure in inflation. If it fails, let know what you sell you home for and all you section 8!Thumbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 12:26pm
The statement, "won't raise taxes" is not quite correct. It MAY raise your taxes if the revenue source reduces. The school will get their 18 mil by increases in taxes on the remaining sources should the original revenue stream be lost. I noticed that Alberico "conveniently" failed to mention that the levy will be an on-going one with no chance to reverse it by voting, once it's on the books.

Do you really want to give this poor performance an encore by resupplying their failed efforts? If so, why? When do you turn off the money tap on a poor performer?
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2010 at 11:46am
 

 

On May 4, 2010, the Middletown City School District has a chance to continue our school PRIDE.  This levy replaces two temporary levies that have been on the books for years.

The schools are NOT asking for more money. This levy does not raise taxes on current properties. 

If the levy does not pass, the schools will lose 26% of their income, because the existing levies will expire in December, 2010.

These funds are used for academics, teachers and support staff, sports, music and art, honors programs, foreign languages, transportation, utilities, books and supplies, and all the other programs and services necessary to keep our schools working.

This levy will help the Middletown City Schools continue its efforts to raise test scores, improve academic achievement, and prepare Middletown’s children for higher education and the work force.

Debbie Alberico

Community Relations / Communication

1515 Girard Ave.

Middletown, OH 45044

513-217-2625

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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