No Tax Increase

spiderjohn wrote: had a very long answer typed, vet it didn't stick and I was too lazy to copy first my bad   while you make a few good points(nothing new), I disagree with the conclusion of your thinking. How many times must you say the same thing?

Vet and Pac...First of all, the discipline policy came from Price and has changed significantly since he has been gone and in all the schools the discipline has changed for the positiive.

spiderjohn wrote: I am mostly concerned about the lack of organized support from the teachers,parents and students. Seems that they should be leading this parade instead of a few board members and private citizens. If our teachers won't support this, then MAYBE we have the wtrong group of teachers.

If our teachers won't support this, then it is more likely that we have the wrong group of administrators and BoE members!!!

OK Pat- I have Journal articles from the 80's that give the surrounding school district comparison on the proficiency scores. Middletown is on the bottom. On the last published report on the proficiency scores, Middletown is on the bottom .....still/again. That's 25+ years to show some improvement, not 30 years- still too long. How many years does one try the same thing and how many lumps on the head does one have to incur before one finds out that it ain't workin' and it hurts when the lumps form? Insanity- trying the same failed approach over and over again and expecting a different result to occur.

You state-"Go read the explanation of each category on the ODE website"-"not individual school's results and what a district has to do to meet the criteria"- Mercy! That's just it, Pat....I have to look at the individual school results- THAT"S WHAT I CARE ABOUT. Sometimes, when you lump all the schools together when compiling data, the poorer ones grade out better than they really are as they are buffered by the better performing ones. I care about individual performance, not school grouping performance. When you group, you dilute. No more excuses about "not using individual school results or what a district has to do to meet criteria"- just GET IT DONE! The bosses (taxpayers in this case) at work don't want to hear excuses....they want you (the education people in this case) to do what is required to get the job done.....or......they'll find someone(new teachers/admin in this case) who will give them (the taxpayers again) what they ask for.

Discipline???? Pat, there hasn't been real discipline in the schools for years, since the parents intimidated the schools with their lawsuits for touching their "little angels". They stopped corporal punishment(which works in most areas) years ago. That's when the discipline left the schools. Time outs, taking away priviledges, suspensions are placebos that are not effective. Pain is. Use to be two sources for pain- the Dean of Boys/Girls and when you got home. Now, there is neither. Need that to come back, IMO.

Pat, the levy COULD be for more money if the tax base made up of businesses and citizens continues to leave town. That means that the ones staying will have to make up the difference to guarantee the schools their 18 million on this levy. Yes, it could mean more money for us property owners. This is a permanent levy, never to be voted on again. It is a "forever" tax to us property owners and we want to see something new in direction, performance and accountability to the people before we will approve it. Simple as that. No more "business as usual". That ain't cuttin' it anymore.

What proof do we have that the schools have been operating the same way for 30 years? Let's see.....if you do the same failed things for 30 years and you produce the same failed results for 30 years, it would indicate to me that there has not been any change at all OR that the changes that have been made in the 30 years have been surface fluff and not had one positive result or we would have been able to measure upward progress that would have made us take notice that we were achieving something. We also would have made strides in satisfying more than 5 of 30 indicators in the last 20+ years. We have been stuck on that number for years.

Pat wrote: Vet and Pac...First of all, the discipline policy came from Price and has changed significantly since he has been gone and in all the schools the discipline has changed for the positiive.

Mr. Presta, there has never been a "No Homework Allowed" policy at MCSD.

Pacman,

Mrs Andrew, While you are on the forum I would like to hear  the real reason why the school is asking for a forever tax.? What reason would I as a taxpayer be compelled to vote yes on a system( as been mentioned above) that has shown little forward movement in the past 25 yrs. I surely can't base a yes vote on the reason that there is a new Supt.( no past  track record in dealing with a situation that this school system generates).Why not a 3yr levy to give everyone an opportunity to make a sound e valuation on this hiring?. I believe this request is not one that should be presented at this time beause of past performance. We need a more solid foundation to invest our money in.

Well alright! Now, we have John Sauter joining in on the levy endorsement fun. He says they have been working on our trust issues with them. Don't know if you've succeeded as yet. John says there are many new exciting programs in place and they're leaving all the traditional teaching programs behind. It is small group, special instruction, individual responsibility type programs that are now in place. He says the discipline issues have been addressed also. Wonder when we'll see if that is working or not? Some of the data posted by Pacman, I believe, doesn't indicate that it is getting any better. He says there is no increase in taxes as all pro-levy folks say, which, may/may not be true.(See Mike Presta's posts) He, of course, fails to mention that this is permanent and can never be excised from the books on behalf of the property owner. You'll pay no matter how bad things get-forever. John also says they have cut some staff (still waiting on the school spokesperson Alberico to go John-can't we incorporate her "speaking" job into someone else's duties?) And, what about all the multiple assistant principals that have been retained? He says changes are coming and improvement will be made. Oh John.......can we give you money on promises alone? Haven't we been "promised" good things in the past and responded just to find out the new money has been squandered? Wish we could believe that it will improve but you saying it, doesn't make it so.

It is apparent there is no rationale argued effctively as I have just stayed back and read for the past few weeks, there is benefit. sj states it will be worse, Ms. Andrews says it will be worde. The "catch all" phrases are "it may get better", "lets give the new superintendent" ergo, the new and improved model, a chance. Its humorius argument and presented poorly. I;m a stand up guy sj, have credibility with anyone who knows me, and have facts I rely upon in every decision. Your reference to a retired Fore Chief whom has a wife teach holds no more credibility than a neighbor who wants amortization of expense because his child attends school.

I really do want to know the reason why  the school feels compelled to ask for this tax to be forever.Is there any takers out there to  step forward and answer this simple request?.

While he seems like a nice guy, I fear the Super is doomed to fail.  He only has a three year contract, is not from here, and from what I hear is being very cautious about buying or renting a home.  He is understandably afraid of planting down roots and wants a quick exit strategy for his possible departure.  I wonder even if he is able to produce modest improvements in three years if, at the end of it, he'll be heading back home anyway after an interesting but frustrating three year Ohio sabbatical.

Hell Bill, I don't blame him if he is not looking to buy, I wouldn't buy a home here either under the current conditions and city operations.  I'd rent with an escape clause if I could.  Maybe he can rent Prices home?  To buy right now makes no sense for any professional in Middletown.  What with the city now hinting at Bankruptcy in 2 years if the Public Safety levy doesn't pass, which I personally won't vote for again.  The city needs to go into cutting mode and now not later.