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A.J. Smith

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TonyB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2011 at 1:37pm
acclaro - Your last post is a fine description of the current state of affairs in our town. It will be of interest to me who on council proposes and endorses the public safety levy. I'm pretty sure that Mr. Laubach is not in favor of the renewal of this tax (although I could be wrong about that) so it will be telling if anyone amongst current council will tie their re-election to the passage of this.
Replacing MMF is something else to consider. Thanks to Mr. Presta and the info from previous threads, the city's economic development is tied to this non-profit. The issue there (as I see it) is whether Middletown Moving Forward has also engaged in electioneering which I would interpret (based on reading the law) as a conflict of interest and illegal. The persons associated with the CIC have one thing that cannot be discounted; deep pockets! Recent elections have proven that a campaign of disinformation and partial information is effective in deceiving voters. Overcoming that will prove a monumental task.
 
I do agree that if the water dept profits were used to fund other programs that it might be legit. If they actually identified what they were using those extra revenues for it would add some credibility. Universities use their football and basketball programs to pay for the rest of the athletic department which I see as a clever and smart use of resources. It's also very transparent because they tell us that is what they do. IMO, that is the litmus test for anyone who wants to run for council: a pledge to make city government more transparent. We can disagree on a number of issues that might determine support for a candidate but at the end of the day, I won't support anyone who can't make that pledge.
I also agree that citizens don't need to pay by assessment for what they have already paid for in taxes. Is it me or is FIX THE STREETS!!! too complicated a message to understand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2011 at 1:46pm
groundswat -thanks for your post. After much philosophical rhetoric (mostly from me) we did return to the subject of this thread. I'm not sure why the ideas of duty and honor need be run by any citizen of this city or this country for that matter. Those were ideas that I picked up in my youth that were taught in our public schools. I've mentioned before that I went to Monroe High School even though I lived in Middletown but that was when it was the combined district. Are the ideas of duty and honor no longer taught in Middletown City Schools? I don't have an answer to that; perhaps someone else does.
The rest of your post troubles me because it points to a lack of leadership and direction. I agree that trust in government is at an all-time low and where there is no trust there is animosity. That animosity has been directed at the employees of government and based on your post, they don't seem to have much trust in the leadership of their government. That trend needs to be reversed and quickly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 7:08am
Didn't see anything in the Journal about Mr. Smith's community meeting last night. Did anyone go and if so, how many were there and what was discussed. Hope Mr. Smith didn't go on a tangent about SB5 again.

When do you think Mr. Becker, Mr. Picard, Mr. Mulligan and Mr. Allen will have their "fireside chats" with us mere mortals?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 8:15am
Vet - I attended last nights meeting and will attempt to give a full report. No, no SB5 talk.
 
Most of the meeting was spent with residents concerned with the septic system inspections being done by the Health Dept in Ward 2. There was also questions about how recycling can be increased in the ward and overall in the city. Mr. Picard was there and talked to redidents about the street replacement legislation and concerns were raised about 18th St where residents had previously fixed the curb and gutters but the city never paved the street. There was also a concern raised about concrete work that has yet to be finished from the gas line work on Minnesota and Mr. Smith had been told that the work would be completed by May.  A concern was raised about the CDBG money being used inefficiently and Mr. Picard said he would look into the matter. It should also be noted that Mr. Mulligan attended the meeting as well. If there was anyone else there who would like to expand on this summary, please feel free. There were at least 10 citizens in attendance and, IMO, it was an informative and productive meeting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 12:01pm

Mr. B.,

I would like to expand on one point.

When I arrived (a few minutes late due to a previous commitment), the group was well into the discussion of the septic tank discussion. Before that was over, some residents seemed to want to blame Armco/AK Steel for the failure of their septic tanks as well as “secret tunnels” under Yankee Road many other problems. Mr. Picard stated that: “AK owns all of Dick’s Creek.” Since everyone seemed convinced of their “facts”, and I felt it fruitless to debate those issues, I kept my mouth shut. However, the truth of the matter is that Dick’s Creek rises in Warren County well east of any AK property. In fact, tributaries and upstream branches of Dick’s Creek run right by Atrium Medical Center and the Renaissance subdivision where Mr. Picard resides.

Perhaps they are responsible for some of the pollution???  Mr. Picard, have you thrown any batteries or broken CFL light bulbs away in your back yard??? LOL LOL LOL

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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A.J. Smith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A.J. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 4:25pm
Thank you to all that attended.

The next District Dialogue will be on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 at the Robert "Sonny" Hill, Jr. Community Center from 6pm - 7:30pm.

All are more than welcome to attend!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 5:38am
According to The Middletown Journal, AJ Smith is being paid to help repeal SB5.  But he has been doing so in his official capacity as a Middletown City Councilman.
 
Isn't that illegal?
 
Will Mr. Landen, or either of the two attornies on City Council, report him to the proper authorities?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 6:43am
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

According to The Middletown Journal, AJ Smith is being paid to help repeal SB5.  But he has been doing so in his official capacity as a Middletown City Councilman.
 

Isn't that illegal?

 

Will Mr. Landen, or either of the two attornies on City Council, report him to the proper authorities?


Let's think this through......

Smith is a councilman, and has an obligation to represent his constituents in the 2nd Ward area. Mr. Smith is being paid by We Are Ohio, an anti-SB5 group gathering signatures to have the bill go up for a vote. He is also a field director for this group. Question: Is Smith, by ciding against this law, representing the majority of his constituent's wishes by doing this? What if most of the people in his ward are in favor of SB5? Is he on the correct side of the fence, or is he just doing what he wants to do in opposing the law? Shouldn't he be asking the people he represents and act accordingly? Isn't there something wrong with drawing a paycheck from the city as a councilman(taking a city stance) and drawing a paycheck, and working for a group that is trying to defeat a law that will hurt the city concerning negotiations?

SB5 affects the operation of the city as it deals with city union workers and the city/union negotiations. Smith, as a councilman, also is involved in this process. He has taken sides on this matter by ciding with the union folks, and is making an attempt to repeal a law by having it placed on the ballot in order to defeat it. Is there a conflict of interest on his part between being involved as a councilman and representing the city's posture and, in his time away from council, lobbying for the defeat of a law that will protect the city he represents by creating a more level playing field? Seems to me he is working both sides of the street on this one. You can't be involved in representing the city and making decisions that will benefit/protect/provide a level playing field for the city and, at the same time, be involved in seeing a law defeated that will provide the city an even playing field in negotiations can you? Anyone see this differently?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 8:10am
Vet - I see this differently because there are dissenters in every legislative body. That isn't against the law. Council doesn't draw a "paycheck", they receive "compensation" for their time and all have other jobs. Is it a conflict of interest for the Mayor to be in the banking industry and also serve on the non-profit for economic development?
As for the SB5 issue, many politicians support or oppose laws that their constituents do not agree with. Take the Lefferson Road project for example, the overwhelming majority of those people didn't agree with the ordinance yet their representative voted for it. When a representative no longer represents your interests, you vote them out. The rest of your argument about SB5 is opinion as to whether it creates a level playing field as opposed to the contention that it is taking rights away from workers. Smith has asked people and feels he's representing their interests. Once again, it's a matter of opinion and you simply can't dictate to a representative about their opinion. If you don't like their opinion, you vote them out. Other than that, all you can do is be an advocate for your opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 9:11am

ARTICLE III, SECTION 18 - MIDDLETOWN CITY CHARTER

     No member of City Council or any other officer or employee of the City shall be interested in the profits or emoluments of any contract, job, work or service for the city. Any member who is, or may become interested in any contract , job, work or service for the City, shall forthwith forfeit his office. Any contract in which any member of City Council is or may become interested in any way whatsoever, may be declared void by City Council.
 
Paul Nagy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 9:48am
Evidently Mr.Smith made this effort at a meeting supposedly focused as a community forum with a councilmember. Possible thorny issue being that this meeting and organized sb5 effort happened in city-owned property(community center I believe), which may well fly against any non-partisan political activity conditions.
So--what do we have here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 9:50am
TonyB- never said it was against the law. I asked if it could be a conflict of interest for him to represent the city behind the desk and then go about the business of being paid to organize a movement to potentially put the city he represents at a disadvantage in negotiations.

Drawing a paycheck.....receiving compensation for a job......semantics. Bottom line.....they are paid for providing a service.

Mulligan, as a bank official, is not lobbying to remove a law that will help the city in conducting its business either. Mulligan, as far as the public is aware, has not done anything outside of his job capacity as mayor and a councilmember, to place the city at a disadvantage as Mr. Smith appears to be doing at this time.

That's right, the Lefferson Rd. people should try to throw their representative under the bus next election if that representative ignored the wishes of the majority of their constituents. Should happen on a routine basis.

"If you don't like their opinion, you vote them out. Other than that, all you can do is be an advocate for your opinion". .....or, you can recall them before their term is up and elect someone who will do the bidding of the majority represented and not their own special agenda.

Perhaps Mulligan should recuse himself from voting on econ. dev. matters involving bank transactions. Perhaps Mr. Smith should recuse himself involving union negotiations with the city.

Looks like Paul Nagy found something pertaining to the City Charter. Based on this info. should Mr. Smith resign?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:00am
This one is really easy. Mr. Smith's work within the Dem party to get SB5 on the ballot, is really a paid lobbyist. His position if to support the Democratic objective, to win votes, and support the union, which gioves them boths. While not illegal, it is clearly a conflict of interest. As a consequence, he should have absolutely no vote on any issue pertaining to SB5 in the city of Middletown. I hope Mr. Landen reads these posts, or engageds legal acumen, as it will be a conflict of interest Smith must recuse himself from exercizing a "paid" vote. That in turn, would be an "illegal" activity. Really a blatant and irresponsible example of political cronysism and taking it a step further...he is paid to do this work and influence others, a serious ethical violation, a violation of city ordinance, and a violation of state and federal law.
 
The voters in the 2nd ward may or may not, in the majority, support SB5 or not. But, by being a paid advocate and "lobbyist", Smith has placed himself in a position he must not vote on any matters pertaining to SR5 and the city of Middletown while in office.
 
Perhaps he will default on getting his treasurer statement to Columbus, and all these messs with him will go away. He is irrelevant, but a nuisance. One person showed up to sign his petition, don't think that Dem group is getting their money's worth, nor is the city. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:22am
Its simple as this.A.J. thinks he can do as he damn well pleases.He is nobody IMO.Just a kid still having growing pains.Again A.J.resign and get the hell out of dodge.Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:31am
acclaro - are you saying that Smith's vote on the recent city contracts with dispatchers was a conflict of interests? Is he lobbying the city government about SB5? Does that mean that anyone who supports an agenda of a political party and serves as a representative in government has a conflict of interests? Example of political cronyism? Violation of the law? Are you kidding me? According to Becker, this city violates the law on a regular and ongoing basis. Cite the ordinances Smith is in violation of and file a complaint; see how far that gets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 10:41am
You people are forgetting one thing here HE IS THE LAW!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 11:20am
Tony, I believe I references I view Smith "irrelevant" so I will not be spending a minute of my time reporting any violation to the city, to the state, to the feds. It isn't required, council will see the clear conflict of interest. I realize from your mny posts, you support the union and government, that is your right and opinion, but you need to peel away facts from emotions.
 
Smith is a paid lbbyist for the Dems under the group that was named in the paper with the sole objective: eliminating SR5. Are you seriously suggesting Tony, that the city of Middletown is being served by a council member paid as a lobbyist, and clearly is doing so for a fee, that that to be no conflict of interest? You have to be kidding me. I have no doubt every city council member sees the benefit of having the tools needed to negotiate. When a council member is PAID to lobby for a position that does not serve the city's best interest, and those whom put him in office, it is a conflict of interest, and his voting capability on such issues should be a recusal.
 
If you can't figure that one out, I can't educate you on the ethics of being paid for a position. I am uncertain and assume council was not made aware he was a paid employee of the group who wants the union power to stand and SR5 to be reversed via vote. If so, he would have been asked to recuse himself on all votes dealing with union workers. If not, he and council, are violating law, and I am sure Les Landen will see this as a significant conflcit of interest. You cannot vote on an issue which you are being paid to also be an advocate. I think that's called a "conflict of interest", why judges are asked or on their own, recuse themselves, and other political figures. While Smith is irrelevant, ethics and being paid for a voting position always dictate recusal Tony, always.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 11:34am
Wait a minute Tony..... You state

"Doesthat mean that anyone who supports an agenda of a political party and serves as a representative in government has a conflict of interests?"

Actually, AS IT IS NOW, the agenda of the political party is to repeal a law that is on the books,giving the city some leverage in negotiations. Mr. Smith, as councilman, should be taking the city position in these negotiations. However, he has demonstrated that he wishes to take this special interest/union supported cause to repeal the current law and place the union back in the driver's seat at negotiation time. Basically, he is on both sides of the negotiation table and I would call that a conflict of interest in it's purist form. He cannot represent the city position as a councilperson and represent the people sitting on the other side of the table at the same time. JMO

Mr. Nagy has already pointed out that he may be in violation of the city charter. Not so sure that his actions have violated any laws. Don't think it goes that far.....yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 12:50pm
Until someone puts there foot down A.J. is going to do what A.J. wants to do.Breaking laws,charters,or whatever doesnt mean a thing to the CHUMP.Yes A.J. I called you a chump.When you was born instead of smacking you on your butt the doctor needed to smack your mom for having such a disgrace as you are.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 2:17pm
acclaro - thanks for your post; the whole idea that our council could see any conflict of interest in their actions or in the actions of another provided a good laugh! Oh, wait a minute; that might be construed as an emotion which inhibits my rational thought process. Let me turn off that so I can reason properly.
 
If what you have deduced from my many posts is that I support unions, you are mistaken. I support people, not organizations. Taking the rights of individuals to bargain collectively smacks of autocracy to me and I'm not a supporter of a dictatorship. No one MADE the city accept the current contracts. If they don't like them, perhaps they should hire a better negotiator or have a better bargaining position. Mr. Smith does not negotiate contracts for the city. Are you telling me that some on the current council aren't engaging in activities designed to groom candidates to support their agenda, that whole MMF group? Whether Smith's paid position compromises his ethics is best left to those in a position to know. The very inference that I somehow don't understand ethics and that I need to be "educated" smacks of condescension. Since you see me as someone so ethically challenged, explain Mr. Becker's comments and why he is still on council.
 
As to my support for government, yes; I unequivocally support the Constitution of the United States of America!!! I also support the state of Ohio constitution and the city of Middletown charter. Are you telling me that you do not? Furthermore, this has nothing to do with allowing union power to stand. It is about stripping rights from workers. Did Mr. Smith vote against the recent contracts? Only one person voted against those contracts and stated his reason very clearly. Should Mr. Laubach have recused himself because he didn't agree? Are you telling me that dissent is now considered a criminal activity?
 
Vet - if I'm not mistaken, the goal of the Republican Party is to repeal the health care law that is on the books; as well as many other laws concerning abortion, Social Security, Medicare, etc. Mr Smith does not negotiate city contracts. You seem to subscribe to the idea that there is only one side to this argument and that anyone who doesn't agree is either ethically challenged or just plain wrong. Mr. Nagy's quote of the city charter is irrelevant in this instance because Mr. Smith is not profiting from any action taken by the city as regards contract negotiations. Advocating the repeal of a law does not mean a conflict of interest. Now, I happen to agree that being paid by a political organization is not the proper "job" for an elected official because of the potential of being seen as a "paid for vote". I would encourage Mr. Smith to return any money earned from such job and to forego any paid political activity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 3:44pm
TonyB...you state


"Mr Smith does not negotiate city contracts". I was under the impression that city council does get involved in contract negotiations and has the final sayso in approval because it does affect the city budget and they are responsible for said budget.


"Yu seem to subscribe to the idea that there is only one side to this argument and that anyone who doesn't agree is either ethically challenged or just plain wrong"

That is correct. There is only one side. The one opposite the union stance. (Just kidding....it is still open for debate)

Mr Nagy's quote of the city charter is irrelevant in this instance because Mr. Smith is not profiting from any action taken by the city as regards contract negotiations"

Ahh, but Smith is benefitting from this situation because he is now collecting a paycheck for ciding with and supporting action that can be detrimental to the city as to negotiations.

Advocating the repeal of a law does not mean a conflict of interest"

It does in this case because if the law is repealed and the city loses the level playing field in negotiations and Smith is also representing the city in an official capacity, IMO, he has a conflict of interest because he is playing both sides of the fence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 4:03pm
Vet - SB5 does not level the playing field. The field was already level. The FACT that the city is terrible at negotiation is the true detriment. City council only approves negotiated deals and recommends the parameters of the deal; they do not negotiate the deals themselves. The hypothetical "can be", "could", "might", is just that; supposition. Mr Laubach opposed the recent contracts while the other 6 members of council thought the deals were in the best interest of the city. Did Mr. Laubach support a position that was at odds with what is best for the city? The real issue will be decided by voters on SB5 provided it even makes it to the ballot. There is no sense in putting the cart before the horse in this case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 4:46pm
Tonyb,
      Lets look at the Charter a  bit closer. "Emolument" is defined as "Profit from office, employment, or labor; fees or salary."
      No member of City Council or any other officer or employee of the City shall be interested in the profits or emoluments of ANY contract, JOB , work or service for the City. Any member who is, or may become interested in ANY contract, job, work or service for the City, shall forthwith forfeit his office ANY contract in which ANY  member of City Council is or may become interested in Any Way WHATSOEVER, MAY BE DECLARED VOID BY CITY COUNCIL.  (emohasis mine. pn)
      Some observations:
     If Mr. Smith is acting as a Council Member in his activites regarding SB5 where does he get the authority? If he isn't acting as a Council Member but as a paid proponent from some political organization and using his council community meetings in order to lobby, work etc. on a political matter why isn''t he violating this section and forfeited his office. Either way not all of his constituents agree with him on this matter. Further, it is not an issue of Council. It is an issue of Columbus and State government. Council's issue is with its budget and paying city employees a fair wage. Thats what Mr. Smith should be discussing. That is his work as a Council Member.  He is indeed using his position in a contract matter regarding the city and is getting paid (emolument). This is "profit from office".
      Paul Nagy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 5:18pm
In simplist term, Smith's actions are in violation of his office only when he casts votes associated with union workers and cuts. When that occurs, he should recuse himself, or Mr. Landen will do so for him in a formal request. Tony, this is really a no brainer. His role s council member is to act first and foremost, on what is best for the city and its constituents, not Barack Obama, the Democratic party, and certainly not SR5. Does he have a right to be paid by the group against SR5? Yes. Does he have a legal right to represent that organization, and agenda, and his vote be cast in parallel to that group? Of course not, an ethical violation, and a legal violation. When he recuses himself, he need to not worry. As long as he associates with the organization, is paid as such, he has no choice but to recuse himself.
 
So, its that easy, no more complication. A simple analogy would be an AK exec sitting on council and casting a vote for everything before council that benefits AK---it would not fly, and would be a clear conflict of interest. Nothing more needs to be stated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2011 at 8:06pm
I think you're right on this. Smith should recuse himself from all negotiations with public city employees.

Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

In simplist term, Smith's actions are in violation of his office only when he casts votes associated with union workers and cuts. When that occurs, he should recuse himself, or Mr. Landen will do so for him in a formal request. Tony, this is really a no brainer. His role s council member is to act first and foremost, on what is best for the city and its constituents, not Barack Obama, the Democratic party, and certainly not SR5. Does he have a right to be paid by the group against SR5? Yes. Does he have a legal right to represent that organization, and agenda, and his vote be cast in parallel to that group? Of course not, an ethical violation, and a legal violation. When he recuses himself, he need to not worry. As long as he associates with the organization, is paid as such, he has no choice but to recuse himself.
 

So, its that easy, no more complication. A simple analogy would be an AK exec sitting on council and casting a vote for everything before council that benefits AK---it would not fly, and would be a clear conflict of interest. Nothing more needs to be stated.
John Beagle

Middletown USA

News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio.
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