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Station 84- Signatures, etc.

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VietVet View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 16 2011 at 7:12am
Today's Journal....

Council wrestles with fire budget, union takes to streets
Brownout of Station 84 on Tytus Avenue avoided

MIDDLETOWN — Just as organized workers rallied the masses to defeat Ohio’s union-opposed Issue 2 on Nov. 8, Middletown firefighters took to the streets last week to gather signatures to present to city leaders, asking them not to close Fire Station 84 or lay off workers.

The signatures were intended to be presented to council on Tuesday night by Jon Harvey, president of Middletown Firefighters Local 336. The signatures — about 500

But holding binders full of signatures, Gary Myers, secretary-treasurer of the fire union, said firefighters would present them Nov. 29. Council will vote on a final 2012 budget at that time.

“The public is behind us,” Myers said

NO JON, I DOUBT THAT 500 SIGNATURES WILL IMPRESS COUNCIL ENOUGH TO DO ANYTHING, WILL IT? THE CRITERIA FOR COUNCIL "LISTENING TO YOU" IS NOT IN THE AMOUNT OF SIGNATURES YOU GATHER, IT IS DEPENDANT ON WHETHER YOU ARE A FRIEND OF THE CITY OR NOT. PEOPLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE GET THINGS THEIR WAY REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER BEHIND THEIR PLEA.

I LIKE THIS ONE......

Much discussion has surrounded a possible brownout of Station 84 until the end of the year. This will not happen, according to City Manager Judy Gilleland. The station will remain open and staffed with a medical unit, she said. The decision did not require council’s vote for approval.

“Medic runs are 80 percent of our business,” she said

JUDITH DIDN'T MENTION THAT WITH EVERY MEDIC RUN PLUS FIRE ENGINE ACCOMPANIMENT, THERE IS A CHARGE TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY (IF ONE HAS INSURANCE) OF $700 + DOLLARS PLUS AMBULANCE MILEAGE TO ATRIUM OF SO MUCH A MILE. A GREAT REVENUE GENERATOR FOR A CITY WITH LITTLE REVENUE SOURCES. NO, THE MEDIC SERVICE FOR CITIZENS IS SECONDARY TO JUDITH. SHE ONLY SEES ANOTHER SOURCE OF INCOME FOR HER SPECIAL AGENDA. SHE WILL KEEP THE MEDIC/AMBULANCE MONEY FLOW GOING AT ALL COSTS.

But the financial situation is dire, according to the city. Dwindling funds are largely responsible for shrinking budgets. About $3.7 million was cut from 2011’s general fund. According to Gilleland, 27 positions are to be lost in the 2012 budget. Public safety — which encompasses 70 percent of the budget — is set to lose 16 positions.

“These are, unfortunately, very expensive positions,” said Mayor Larry Mulligan. “A top-tier firefighter in Middletown (requires) about $100,000 with benefits ... the dollars add up pretty quickly.

“With such stiff reductions in revenue, unfortunately, cuts need to happen in public safety,” he said.

SO, EXACTLY WHAT DID YOU ANTI-ISSUE 2 VOTERS GAIN BY YOUR WIN AT THE POLLS? YOUR PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE GOING BE LAID OFF ANYWAY BECAUSE THE CITIES BUDGET CAN'T SUPPORT THEM. THEY HAVE BASICALLY "NEGOTIATED" THEIR WAY OUT OF A JOB. OR.......IS IT THAT THEY HAVE MADE CONCESSIONS AT THE BARGAINING TABLE AND GILLELAND AND COMPANY REFUSED THE CONCESSIONS? IF SO, SOUNDS LIKE SHE AND OTHERS HAD THEIR MIND MADE UP TO DOWNSIZE THEM ANYWAY, NO MATTER WHAT THEY PROPOSED.
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middie83 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 16 2011 at 9:48am
Viet Vet you are right the city has one thing in mind and that is downsizing. Their motto is do more with less. Nice try by them in moving a medic unit from one station to another to "keep it open" Same as they did with station 85 (Central and Breiel) after it was closed and someone died on Ronald drive. Medic units don't have hose, water, ect. to put out fires. Also this move should enrage residents in the downtown, S. Main, Lafayette (west of Verity), and other areas in that area as the city just added time in which that medic unit will now have to travel to get to an emergency as that medic unit would have come from S. Clinton. It's a shell game to them!! Public safety is like going to Vegas and gambling for these people! I've given them a motto already, "rolling the dice on peoples life!"
Trust me the Fire Union has negotiated and tried to make concessions but the city will only guarantee jobs saved if a 9% pay reduction is taken. No matter what other concessions are given that is all they are interested in. They continue to make the Union look like villains in this "game".
I don't care how many times Liarbach has breakfast with the Chief as he said at the council meeting! Come spend some 24 hour shifts with me on my medic unit and maybe then you will have a better understanding at my job, and what it entails! Maybe then he'll actually look at a resident as they speaks through tears, instead of looking down at whatever so disinterested! I extended that invitation to all the others that want to cut firefighters as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 16 2011 at 10:36am
middie83...."Same as they did with station 85 (Central and Breiel) after it was closed and someone died on Ronald drive".

Hmmmm...close to where I live. Wonder what the city stance will be as to spreading out the medic/fire services if they start incuring multiple lawsuits for extreme times to react to emergency situations? Could it happen? Don't know right now. Wonder if this has already happened in other cities and what the outcome was in the legalities? City setting itself up for lawsuits?

Further supporting statement from middie83.....

"It's a shell game to them!! Public safety is like going to Vegas and gambling for these people! I've given them a motto already, "rolling the dice on peoples life!"


middie83....

"Trust me the Fire Union has negotiated and tried to make concessions but the city will only guarantee jobs saved if a 9% pay reduction is taken. No matter what other concessions are given that is all they are interested in. They continue to make the Union look like villains in this "game".

Well......since they want the firefighters to take a 9 percenter, what did they offer as the percentage that they would take to help out the city finances from their paycheck. Let me guess......they didn't offer? Imagine that!

If the city is in such desperate finances and they are talking about layoffs and salary reductions, what did they say they were going to do in their respective area to justify what they are asking from you? Let me guess again......nothing, right? So the theme coming from the city building must be "everyone must sacrifice", except certain positions within city government. I have yet to hear that Landen, Kohler, Gilleland, Duritsch, Carolus, what's her name...the Health Dept. woman, or any other Director/Manager/Supervisor level that will share the sacrifices. Why not? You're all a "team", aren't you and all must make sacrifices, right? Upper management usually throws out that bullcrap when they are asking for sacrifices in a weak attempt to lessen the impact/anger on the little guys. Heard it before over the years. It's all a verbal crock from the big wigs running the show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2011 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by middie83 middie83 wrote:

the city will only guarantee jobs saved if a 9% pay reduction is taken.


Only 9%? 

9%?

These poor bastards in the private sector would be lucky if they had only had their pay reduced by 9%...

LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Barille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2011 at 8:16pm
middie83 wins on SB5 and now bravely rails against city attempts to rein in costs. 
If we had a dollar for every time a firefighter says "we've made concessions!".  Spoken like a typical public union guy -- as if we should all be glad that the public servants threw us mere employment-at-will mortals a crumb of negotiation.  Like the mere offer of a reduction, any reduction, is proof of their reasonableness.  The merits of the "offer" are not to be discussed; we should be glad that any crumbs were thrown at all!  All hail our public servants! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2011 at 9:55pm
wait a minute you mean issue 2 aka sb5 failed to pass and they are still gonna lay off firemen? You are kidding me someone please tell me it aint true.this whole lying of these union folks that poured millions and millions of dollars to sway the elections that just took place should put their money where their mouth is and help support the fine people and their families that are certainly going to be laid off(and I hope they don't)in the months ahead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 6:48am
If middie83's statements are correct, and the union did make concessions to the city, and the city refused those concessions, we would have to ask why they refused, wouldn't we? Why would city leaders, who are stating they don't have enough money to afford the full contingent of fire personnel, be refusing an offer by firefighters, to place more funds back on the city's side of the table and make them more affordable? One could ask the question, "is the city using the collective bargaining event to intentially downsize the fire dept? And why would they do that, if it puts the city in jeopardy of lawsuits for excessive response times to a life/death situation? Many questions pertaining to a potential "underlying motive" here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 7:11am
Vet, you're falling for one of the basic ploys out of the Public Safety 101 playbook: make "concessions" to the City and then claim the city doesn't want to negotiate and are risking lives. We see it in these negotiations in the NFL, NBA, etc. all the time.

Suppose I had a neighbor who was terrible with money management and some thought maybe half-senile, and I was being paid $125 by this neighbor to mow their tiny lawn (say it takes maybe 10 minutes). Neighbor's family gets involved and wants to fire me for making too much money off the neighbor -- am I being reasonable by saying "hey, I'll mow it for $115! See how reasonable I'm being!" ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2011 at 7:32am
Stanky

"Vet, you're falling for one of the basic ploys out of the Public Safety 101 playbook: make "concessions" to the City and then claim the city doesn't want to negotiate"

I BELIEVE MY POST STATED "IF MIDDIE83'S STATEMENT IS CORRECT" IMPLYING THAT I DIDN'T NECESSARILY TAKE HIS STATEMENT AS GOSPEL.

Stanky

"Suppose I had a neighbor who was terrible with money management and some thought maybe half-senile, and I was being paid $125 by this neighbor to mow their tiny lawn (say it takes maybe 10 minutes). Neighbor's family gets involved and wants to fire me for making too much money off the neighbor -- am I being reasonable by saying "hey, I'll mow it for $115! See how reasonable I'm being!" ?? "

BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT CONCESSIONS WERE MADE TO THE CITY BY THE UNION. YOUR HYPOTHESIS ABOVE MAY BE AN EXAGGERATION OF WHAT ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED IN THE NEGOTIATION CONCESSIONS. NOT TAKING SIDES HERE, STANKY, JUST BEING CAUTIOUS, AND ASKING QUESTIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. IE- DID THE UNION REALLY MAKE MEANINGFUL CONCESSIONS? WHAT WAS THE REASON THE CITY SAID NO TO THOSE CONCESSIONS?

HEY, NOT TAKING THE UNION SIDE OF THINGS HERE. I VOTED FOR ISSUE 2 AND STATE BILL 5. I HAVE MADE STATEMENTS ABOUT UNION GREED ON THESE VERY PAGES. BUT I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE CITY'S REASONING FOR THE REFUSAL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2011 at 8:24am
Neil: It didn't take Sb5 being repealed for me to come out and be honest about happenings with the union. I've always been open and honest and clear on my opinion. If you have a question, ask it!
Bocephus: Firemen are family and in my family when someone is down you help them out. If layoffs do happen we well help those brothers out. The unions did what was right and what has been in place since '83 and thats fight for and keep collective bargaining.
Stanky: I don't know what a firefighter ever did to you to piss you off so bad and hate us. This isn't the NFL, NBA or any pro sport union. This is public safety. This isn't Let's Make a Deal! I know for a fact that my brother and sister firefighter/paramedics care for the people of this city, those that work here and those just passing through. This is the city retaliating and lashing out. Are you so blind you don't see the BS Liarbach is pulling?! His shell game of we have extra money, we don't have extra money. We can spend it if it's my idea and what, I hate to listen to citizen comments, these people aren't as smart as I am, blah blah blah! Watch his body language during a council meeting!!
Also don't depend on the fire chief to stick up for his department and what is right for the department.
For me this is about keeping firefighters and paramedics on the apparatus and protecting this city.
Vet: I think some higher ups in Middletown think that more can be done with less. They think you can get the same service that we are providing now with part time or even volunteer firemen. Some people just continue to lash out because they are upset that we canvassed. These people wanting to make these decisions have no idea of what our job entails and how service would suffer and decline in care and quality. Some people may say "I'm ok with a cheaper less quality care as long as its there." The problem with that is in our line of work that equates to peoples lives being lost and greater property loss. Many on here will say that is scare tactic talk but I doubt those people have ever worked in public safety. I stand behind my statements and as always am willing to answer questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2011 at 10:54am
Stop this nonsense on the concern on public safety. SR5 was defeated not because it was over-reaching, but because many in Ohio were clueless was a Yes meant or a NO meant. Middletown could reduce its overhead in all areas of public safety very easily. The reason for not wanting to do it, is associated with spen of control, that is the sole motivation, The more you have, the more deputy chiefs you have, more hierarchy, higher salary, seniority, and advancement for all. When "public safety concerns are rattled off", it truly means, Keep the pecking and advancement order in place, period."

Watching first hand the actions of John Harvey, I hardly would subscribe to the notion the union under his tutelage, is a tempest for moderate thought and compromise. It wasn't a few days after the election, he was stating all of Middletown was behind the union. You are wrong Mr. Harvey. We've been on to the double/ triple dip deal for decades, and the over-sized paychecks and benefits. I suspect the ratio to deaths and disability at AK Steel vs Fire Department or Police, runs about 20X to x, and it is insulting to read the nonsense associated with a desire to keep overhead and position for advancement, under the cloak of "safety." The two are not remotely related.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKBobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2011 at 1:24pm
The PD took over 50,000 calls for service last year and had a 30% increase in serious crime in Middletown this year. All violent crimes are on the rise - while the MPD has 15 less officers then they did in 1995. They've cut supervisor positions AND administrative positions as well as street officers. They've cut correction officers, dispatchers and clerical staff also.

What more can they cut?
AK - What is going on with that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2011 at 9:10pm
Acclaro: What facts of over-sized paychecks and benefits do you have?? MFD has 3 Deputy chiefs (1 for each platoon), we have given up an Asst. Chief, Fire Marshal, Fire training Captain and low 3 line positions. We have seen the same increase in run volume as the PD.
The FD has 3 daytime positions, Chief, EMS Captain and secretary.
What has Pres. Harvey done that is so horrible in your eyes?? Who within the FD is double/triple dipping?? No one doubts that AK is a dangerous place. Why are you trying to debate the danger or jobs?? You are bitter about public safety and always will. Nothing I say will change your mind, it is pointless to even point out facts to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middie83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 26 2011 at 9:43pm


Plain and simple, here are the facts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 26 2011 at 10:25pm

What a mess this has become its kind of like a micro version of the Country as a whole,we are going broke due to self serving politicians and now they are dividing us all into smaller groups and enjoying watching the infighting.On one hand if the City does not have the money to pay these firemen and policemen then their only option is to cut services and start laying people off on the under hand if this city is so broke then how are we doing things that make no sense such as buying buildings and blowing money on custom street lights for a particular section of town?

 
I don't know what the answer to our problems are but if we wait for the city leaders to solve anything then this city is sh*t out of luck because most of them have no clue and neither do most of the citizens of the town (just look at the last election)
 
Does any one have info on what concessions if any have been offered by the firemen and policemen unions to date ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 26 2011 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by middie83 middie83 wrote:

Neil: It didn't take Sb5 being repealed for me to come out and be honest about happenings with the union. I've always been open and honest and clear on my opinion. If you have a question, ask it! 
What concession were offered by the FD union?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 27 2011 at 8:06am
Originally posted by rngrmed rngrmed wrote:

Originally posted by middie83 middie83 wrote:

Neil: It didn't take Sb5 being repealed for me to come out and be honest about happenings with the union. I've always been open and honest and clear on my opinion. If you have a question, ask it! 







What concession were offered by the FD union?


Likewise, Mr. Laubach (since you are the only one on this forum representing council who will address our concerns), why did the city allegedly refuse the unions concessions? Who's bs-ing who here? The union or the city?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 27 2011 at 9:32am
I don't see where Issue 5 will save jobs via either voting result.
YES simply closed the negotiation process
NO keeps it as is
 
NEITHER answer provides the necessary funding to save these important jobs down the road.
We will lose these workers either way imo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 10:42am
Had another occasion to see the Middletown medics and fire folks in action yesterday. Had to call 911 for the wife with another seizure. They responded in about 4 minutes. Excellent time gentlemen. Good service. One of the few assets the town has to offer anymore. The response time didn't seem any longer than other calls for their help. Seemed like the Atrium Emergency Room stepped it up a notch after she arrived there also. Four hours from call to dismissal. Not bad in comparison to other events in the past. Don't know if being on a Sunday sped it up a little either. Perhaps not as busy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 05 2011 at 8:41pm

Our saftey is at risk because salaries have grown out of proportion, not because council has to make a difficult decision here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2011 at 10:27am
Is the City obligated to have Police, Fire and ambulance services?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 13 2011 at 10:24pm

I found this article.  Looks like the City could get rid of big expense and get rid of the PD and FD.  Turn them over to the private sector.

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