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LAYOFF 11 FIREFIGHTERS

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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 6:20pm
John,

Given the shrinking size of Middletown's department, virtually every fire in Middletown has become a mutual aid incident. With that being said, one causation was the introduction of a RIT/RAT team. That team's job is to be in front of the structure ready to enter at a moments notice to rescue lost or trapped fire fighters.

When the department staffed daily at 19 men, there were disbursed as follows:

4 engine companies/ 3 to a company = 12 fire fighters
3 medic companies/ 2 to a company = 6 fire fighters
1 deputy chief

A fire alarm entails 3 engine companies, one medic unit and the deputy chief. If it turned out to be a working fire, flames and smoke showing, an additional medic unit and additional engine company were dispatched.

Middletown's department covered most of those runs when it was staffed with 19. (As a side note, the $35,000 Matrix study found the department should NOT go below 19 fire fighters)

Fast forward to the closure of Quint (engine) 84 and the reduction of personnel to 16. The breakdown went as follows:

3 engine companies/ 3 to a company = 9 fire fighters
3 medic companies/ 2 to a company = 6 fire fighters
1 deputy chief

Now when a working fire comes in, Middletown does not have the manpower to cover all the jobs required for a safe and quick fire knockdown. Virtually every working fire is going to include mutual aid to be the RIT/RAT team. If an engine company is on a smoke alarm call, car fire, medic assist call, etc., 2 mutual aid units are going to be needed.

Now we come to September of 2014. Council decides to reduce staffing levels to 13 personnel daily. The new breakdown is as follows:

4 engine/medic companies/ 3 to a company = 12 fire fighters
1 deputy chief

Those 4 combination companies take which ever piece of equipment is needed or "First Emergency First"   Where is the problem with that you ask. The city keeps saying the majority of our runs are medical in nature. Under the old or non FEF scenario, two fire fighters took every medical call. If dispatch deemed the call to be life threatening, an engine company was also dispatched. If the run could be handled by the medic unit, the engine was released, leaving 2 fire fighters "out of service" on the run. In other words, the three 2-man medic units (6 personnel)could handle 3 concurrent calls and leave 3 engine companies in service. Under the FEF plan,3 concurrent calls would place three combination companies, or 9 personnel, out of service leaving just one engine company to cover the entire city.

It was that type of scenario that played out at the hotel fire. The deputy chief had to assist the engine company on the scene before the next engine company arrived. His job is to manage the scene outside from the best vantage point to insure the safest and quickest outcome to the incident.

ashkicker
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Perplexed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perplexed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 7:16pm
The record speaks volumes on the repeated financial waste and misguided priorities of The Dougmeister during his ignominious term with the Community Revitalization Department. Now that he's the City Manager, it's fine for him to nickel and dime Middletown's Fire Department. Go figure?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2014 at 7:54pm
I am not alone by stating the majority in Middletown are absolutely sick and tired of hearing about the fire fighters and their distorted viewpoints on their plight.
 
Regarding the hotel incident, the number of firemen and departments coming from different communities was an outcome of what was initially perceived and reported as a fire so severe in its course and strength, it threatened to burn down the entire hotel. On the contrary, it burned only one room, from a candle from a guest.
 
Think of it this way if it were a police incident. A woman calls the police department associated with seeing a man walk through her back yard, cutting across her grass and lot, to save 5 minutes of walking time on the sidewalk. The police send out the entire force, thinking the woman is being held hostage, when she really just reported a minor incident.
 
Such is the fire fight at the hotel. Multiple fire units run, when a small fire occurred. It had nothing to do with the cuts in the fire department. There isn't a more political unit in the city of Middletown, none. Middletown fire department and drama queens are all the same....attention seekers.     
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 12:33am
Ok Dean,

Explain this, your mother had a "non life threatening case and short term illness" and you called 911. Sounds like overkill to me. You should have loaded your mother up in your car and drove her the 1.5 miles to the Atrium.

So are you a solution to the problem or did you add to the "problem"?

I'm sure if the fire department didn't respond accordingly to the hotel fire and people would have died, you probably would complained that fire fighters were to lazy to respond.

Middletown had one engine in service when that call came in. A second unit cleared while returning from a medic call and had to switch over from their medic unit to their engine. So you had 6, yes 6, Middletown fire fighters responding to a fire that could have put a lot of lives in danger. I spoke with the deputy chief in charge of that fire and his crystal ball was turned off. He didn't know it was a candle fire. (you know, candle fires are never large! Fifth third in Trenton burned to the ground from 1 cigarette butt). The first engine with 3 fire fighters was alone on that fire for about 10 minutes before they got any help. While you're busy complaining about the fire department, the hotel manager was pretty happy with the department's performance.

ashkicker

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jag123 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jag123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:04am
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jag123 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jag123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:12am
Many times, it takes several firefighters to fight even a small fire. High temps and humdity, a ton of gear on your back and fighting the hose itself, can cause fatigue in just a few minutes. Fatigue causes injuries to firefighters. Several fighters rotate in and out to lessen the chance of this happening.

Me? Been there, done that. You?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2014 at 6:41am
On the other hand, never had to call 911 for a fire situation but have called many times for a medical response. The response was quick, the fire/medic folks were efficient, courteous and seemed to care in some extreme situations. I'm glad they're here and serving the community. Have the "anti-fire" folks posting here had any experience with the fire responses to an emergency situation? If so, I believe they would find a satisfactory situation playing out before their eyes. My family has. If they will provide me their phone numbers, I will call right after I call 911 and they can see for themselves, the response time, the "in the house" activity and the efficiency with which these guys work. I'm sure you will be pleased.


And no, I'm not an "AJ Smith union supporter" either, but I do know good service when I see it....on more than one occasion. Believe it or not, the police and fire departments are two of the more useful/efficient departments we have in this city and are a better bargain for our tax money than the salaries we are paying at the city building. What are we getting for our tax dollars out of the city manager and his crew? (beside an inept cluster, of course) Look at the day to day service we are getting from these guys and then look at the service we are getting out of the city building. Still think the police and fire are the issues in this city? I'd say they are two of the better elements in the city. How about we examine the real culprits responsible for the town being the way it is. All JMO of course.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 06 2014 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by dean dean wrote:

I am not alone by stating the majority in Middletown are absolutely sick and tired of hearing about the fire fighters and their distorted viewpoints on their plight.

I think the majority in any city respect their local firefighters and the life-saving work they do to ensure all community members are safe. Assuming they are fat-cats is disgusting beyond reason.
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2014 at 12:08am
Trotwood,

Simply put, THANK YOU!

ashkicker
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rngrmed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 12:49am
Ash Kicker--

I'm a nurse at a clinic here in Middletown. ACLS certified, but our doc depends on heavily on squads if there is an emergency. I informed him of the recent layoffs and could result in slower response times.

Is there any way to let other offices know about the potential for delays and the importance have their staff trained?

This may be out of your scope, but I'm willing to brainstorm with you as this could lead to some bad outcomes...
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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 1:24am
Ashkicker could you explain why it is being said that the city made an offer to save the 11 positions but the union voted it down in terms that even I could understand it?

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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:32am
For the city's side of the issue, go to http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/fire/fire_council_slideshow.pdf
 
This was the presentation made to council last week; not clear why the Journal has not provided balanced reporting on all of the issues.
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Historic House Guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:44am
Personally, I think they could save a good amount of money if they stop sending fire personnel and trucks out to every medical call. What is the purpose of that anyway? Why would you send a fire engine and EMS? What a waste!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 10:59am
Miiddletown has created a problem of numbing proportion over decades of waste, lack of fiduciary oversight, and entitlement. I read the presentation, and while I do not support the need for the vast number of full-time fire fighters, as the statistics illuminate the fact Middletown is greatly skewed off balance in payroll % compared to other cities going to payroll, the reality is the entitlement and fiscal mismanagement has been so apparent over so many years, its difficult to accept and comprehend the cuts if one were a fire fighter, compared to the other departments. Nonetheless, the cuts need to be made.

I have difficulty is accepting the greater than $100 Mm in expense for road pavement, when the city could have remedied that decades ago, indeed, in 1988-1989, by simply putting back in place the dedicated funds that were set aside for road maintenance. No on in city hall nor council can honestly sit with a straight face and use road maintenance as an issue in lending support for reducing the budget for fire/ police.

At the end of the day, just like the striking AKS union workers, these guys/ gals, don't want to give up their perks. The outcome will be disheartened employees throwing out baseless claims. The numbers clearly show the city action was justified. However, the bigger issue is the chronic inability Middletown has to bring in new businesses. That will always be a problem when Liberty Township/ Mason, don't tax on income. Employers go there to bring in talent, not high tax areas that cannot provide basic amenities at very steep tax rates presently. The cycle that Middletown remains, and continue to be spun in the downward fall.        
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2014 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

Nonetheless, the cuts need to be made.

I have difficulty is accepting the greater than $100 Mm in expense for road pavement, when the city could have remedied that decades ago, indeed, in 1988-1989, by simply putting back in place the dedicated funds that were set aside for road maintenance. No on in city hall nor council can honestly sit with a straight face and use road maintenance as an issue in lending support for reducing the budget for fire/ police.

Good points. Veering slightly off topic, does anyone know what Middletown's road budget is?

That seems like the easiest way to cut costs. There are so many stupidly large boulevards all over the place, like Barnitz, University and its giant useless interchanges, Briel south of Roosevelt.... and I'm sure there are many more roads that are way too big for the number of cars they actually handle in a day. 

Why doesn't the city just maintain one side of the road and vacate the other? Turn it over to the Butler Co. park service to maintain bike lanes in the stretch if you guys want. That way everybody in Butler Co. will be reducing your city's road maintenance bill.
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 09 2014 at 8:54am
rngrmed,

I'm afraid that information will only be distributed through the interaction between the squads and the doctor's offices.

Bocephus,

While the MOU would have saved 11 jobs, it would have decimated the department. To save 11 jobs, the union would have had to agree to part time employees. A recent article in the Journal cited area departments that were having problems running a full/part time department. Part time employees work in departments that are smaller and make fewer runs. The city hung these 11 jobs over the union's head so the city would apply for a grant to save those jobs. A grant that cost the city no money. (Note that I said the city, not taxpayers) Initially the city wanted 10% part timers then switched to 30%. I believe in the beginning the MOU stated part timers would be 240 hour certified fire fighters and certified paramedics. The next time around it changed to meet the requirements of the city. This MOU would eventually lead to no full time fire fighters. Nobody wants to agree to something that would phase out their job. The union was told even if the MOU were to be ratified, daily minimum staffing would still go down to 13. Basically, it was a raw deal for all fire fighters, not just the 11 that were layed off. The city says it has no money to pay fire fighters and would go broke without the agreement. So if the agreement were to be signed, how was the city going to keep from going broke? Before the layoff, the city wasn't paying for 4 positions that were open, with the agreement they were going to fill those positions. Again, how was that agreement going to save money. That's right. they were going to hire part time works to save the needed money the city doesn't have. But wait, the mayor said once the "cheaper" fire fighters were hired, saving money the city doesn't have, they were going to start paving streets with the money they didn't have to pay fire fighters. Bottom line, 2 levies overwhelmingly supported by the citizens that resulted in cuts to the department. If the city could lie to the public about "no cuts to your services", why should fire fighters trust them?


Historic House Guy,

Do you have any idea how EMS runs? Try to imagine you are in the back of a squad doing chest compressions, rescue breathing, administering drugs and using a cardiac monitor all at the same time. All that while bouncing around in the back of a squad. If dispatch deems the run could be life threatening, they send an engine company to assist. The two extra sets of hands come in very helpful. Medics are fire fighters and fire fighters are medics. If the engine happened to be closer, those fire fighters (medics) could begin treatment. If the engine personnel were not needed, the medics released them back in service to await the next emergency.

Acclaro,

The only perks fire fighters were going to lose were eventually their jobs when the city tried to go all part time. There was a second fire in the city that again taxed not only Middletown's resources but the surrounding departments as well. Ask the city building how automatic mutual aid response agreements are going. I hear Monroe and Franklin won't sign off on them. Did you hear about the shooting on 10th Avenue? I believe it took 10 minutes to get a squad on scene. Is that "disheartened employees throwing out baseless claims."

Under the old plan, the city had 6 companies to respond to emergencies, now they have 4.

ashkicker
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John Beagle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 11 2014 at 1:11pm
Can someone post the mayors editorial from today's newspaper? I would love to hear your opinions. 

Seems there is no middle ground on this issue. Does the average firefighter make over $100K/yr? That's what I recall reading. Although I might have it wrong. Hence the request to have it posted or linked here. 

Thanks to anyone who can help.
John Beagle

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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 11 2014 at 3:29pm
I read it but I'm not able to be objective because I'm not able to believe or have faith in any thing Mulligan has to say when it comes to city financesI have trouble having any respect for this man that has a responsible job at a bank and yet has helped to devastate our city finanances. IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 14 2014 at 8:43pm
Should the city manager know how the fire department works before he tries to change it? In today's Journal, Adkins is quoted as saying:

"He said since firefighters work 24 consecutive hours, and are off work the next 48 hours, they work about 51 hours a week, some of those hours at overtime pay."

There is NO overtime pay when a fire fighter works his 24/48 hour schedule. So does Dougie think fire fighters cost too much because he thinks we get overtime every week?

And we were supposed to trust him to give us bonuses if revenues go up. Or that his grand scheme didn't include getting rid of all full time fire fighters after two years.

Dougie said we can't staff the department for the one fire a week. What about when there are 5 other runs in the city? Bingo! Mutual aid.

How are those mutual aid contracts coming? Rumor has it that Monroe will only send automatic mutual aid when they not at minimum. I didn't see any percentages for when Monroe will be able to send help.

More to follow!

ashkicker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 10:05am
Well I guess we'll lose our fire chief to Mason. I guess he doesn't like dealing with Dougie as much as he did Judy.IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbrew85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 3:03pm
It pains me to hear (read) comments from people that really just don't have a clue. I used to work at Atrium Medical Center in the ER. I now work in a different ER in Dayton. I saw medics from Middletown, and all of the surrounding departments on a many times daily basis. I currently see medics from Dayton and surrounding areas on a daily basis. Most of the citizens in this town are clueless as to the quality of fire department we are blessed with. No Dean, you most certainly don't speak for many in this town when you speak disparagingly about them. If you did, the safety levies would not pass each time they are on the ballot.

What do we need more, Police or Fire? Not even close. If I'm having a heart attack, or I've been in an accident, the police aren't going to do me much good are they? If I've got a police emergency, Ill call them to clean up the mess. They can take their time. Firefighters and Medics save lives every day. EVERY day. Police, not so much. Police are needed, without a doubt, but FF/Medics are far more urgently needed. This is not even debatable.

Providing adequate Fire and Police protection should be the very first priority. I am not generally a union fan, but I do believe this union has gone above and beyond in attempting to reach agreements with the city. I don't believe in this case, that the city leaders have any interest in doing "the right thing".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2014 at 4:05pm
Our city leaders do not know what "do the right thing" means. If they did past and present members would have acted accordingly.IMO
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ashkicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashkicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 11:44am
SAFER grant for fire fighters - $0

Bike path - $134k

Adequate Fire/EMS service - Priceless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by ashkicker ashkicker wrote:

SAFER grant for fire fighters - $0

Bike path - $134k

Adequate Fire/EMS service - Priceless


That's right ashkicker. This council, in all of it's wisdom , has decided to spend money to continue a dam bike path into Franklin rather than to remedy the fire dept. downgrading of manpower. Ridiculous. Do any of them have a clue as to the right thing to do for this city? Given the track record of this inept group of people, could we expect any different in their priorities?

Let's see.....I've got $134 thou in my hand. Do I spend it on a bike path that benefits < 3% of the community, or do I spend it where it would benefit the MOST in the community? Just flat out too difficult for this council to provide the obvious choice time after time. We continue to be doomed by the epidemic stupidity of the city leadership.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2014 at 4:22pm
Didn't I read where Franklin was hesitant about the coalition deal due to Middletowen capping their expense @ $150,000?

How much has the bike path cost us so far?
And where are the local stops where a rider/walker can enjoy any business amenities?

Not laming/accusing--just wondering about bang for the buck(as usual)..
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