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Friday, March 29, 2024 |
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Section 8 Update |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Jan 18 2017 at 11:21am |
Adkins: “This drawdown was by design and anticipated by all parties.
The numbers are exactly where we projected them to be.”
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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I'm willing to spend some time on here talking about projects and answering questions. But I only have so much time to devote to this. I do have a city to run with lots of moving pieces.
The Section 8 numbers are correct and valid. The old number comes from MPHA and we knew where all 1662 vouchers lived within the city. The updated number comes from Warren and Butler Metro added together. They each ran reports for Middletown only. This drawdown was by design and anticipated by all parties. The numbers are exactly where we projected them to be. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Here is the link to our MUSA discussion in June 2014 on Section 8. The lawsuits against the city concerning this subject are still before the courts. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Adkins:
The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro
to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown. Doug Therefore your research and
your claim of 950 current vouchers must be incorrect. |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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A Consolidated Plan from 2010 shows nearly 600 units in privately‐owned properties that qualify for low income housing tax credits. Robin Springs at the time was listed with 120 units and all 120 units were LI.
Property owners came before City Council several years ago seeking approval for these Tax Credits as part of their complex remodeling. It's my understanding Council approval is required for these tax credits to be approved at the state or federal level That doesn't mean all 120 units are filled with Section 8 Voucher holders. It means that maximum income restrictions apply based on the # of bedrooms/# of residents in a unit. I vaguely recall Council adopting a formal/informal policy for staff that Council would not approve Income Tax Credits for new multi-family construction.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Jurisdictional boundaries for both Butler and Warren County subsidized rental housing administration is not the issue. Please explain how the number of current vouchers SITUATED WITHIN MIDDLETOWN CITY LIMITS has mysteriously dropped from your reported 1,660+ over the years to 950 in the past 18-24 months? Since you recently reported the 950 unit figure, why was it EVER NECESSARY to undertake such a time-consuming and costly city dispute with HUD over the last number of years using 1,660+ as the benchmark? Which is it?
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Let me see if I can find a map that lays it out, but yes, Robin Springs is part of the Warren County count.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Doug
Please tell me where the CITY LIMITS of Middletown extend to on the East SIde? Are the Robin Springs Apts., 120 units within the city limits of Middletown? I know they are included in the Section 8 count for Warren County. |
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Vivian,
When MPHA was running, we had 1,662+ vouchers living within the city limits of Middletown. The entire program was shut down and split between Warren and Butler. The 950 I've referred to is the number of vouchers living within the city limits in Middletown at this time as reported by both Warren and Butler added together. Apples to apples. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Adkins: "At the height of MPHA, the city had just over 1,700 vouchers operating in the City of
This is a very misleading statement for the general public to
understand in my opinion. The 1,662
vouchers managed by MPHA included Section 8 vouchers located in both Therefore the number of Section 8 vouchers have not really been reduced…but are now counted and split into two different areas. |
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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If we don't have the over abundance of Sec 8 vouchers then what's the problem with the older housing stock if they pass inspections and health regulations? Again it seems slanted towards rental stock or did I miss something.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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RECENT COMMENTS of Mr. A. published in the MJ and posted on this blog are what's making this sordid mess a topic of conversation once again! It's not a rehash of the past! We're now told that Middletown really doesn't have the overabundance of Section 8 rentals after all in contrast to what he has been saying since 2009. As Vivian Moon would say, that puzzles her three little gray cells.
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Well here we go again: Spin city. Here's to the man that knows how to spin it the best. JMO
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What A City
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 06 2009 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Perhaps letting this blow over is the right thing to do 29, but we have had so many city screw-ups the past 30 years that it is beyond letting it go. It is the convenient thing to suggest that the clusters in the city building who created this voucher overabundance are all now gone and we should start anew from this point on. Easy to do that way, but if something isn't done to fix this repeat behavior from our city leaders, it will continue with just a shoulder shrug and all is well mentality. All is not well in this city and this damaged town was created by past and current occupiers of the city building. THEY have run the city into the ground and now Adkins is trying to repair the ailing ghetto they have created. Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY to the citizens if we continue to forgive their clusters? Right now, they constantly screw up and we just let it ride without a whimper (with the exception of the criticism dealt out on this forum). Major apathy from the people doesn't help the cause either. City leaders have done so poorly that a large percentage of people living here no longer care what happens to the town. Simply put, we don't hold our city government accountable. We have a watchdog in place with this forum but we stop there and don't take our issues to the meetings. Why? Partly because when you go to their meetings, they ignore your message of dissatisfaction, cutting you off at the three minute time limit and only listen to their friends (who can talk as long as they wish) Councils and the city managers in the last 40 years have never paid any attention to the people they represent. They do as they please and (Mulligan said this himself), if you don't like it live somewhere else. That demonstrates the man has no class and chooses to use a dictatorial attitude toward the people. Basically a pompous --- who's too big for his britches, a trait that a lot of them have. JMO |
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Isn't this screw up by the City old news by now.
Looks like they now have situation under control and bad actors are longer longer around. |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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In summary, how INEXCUSABLE it is that so many city staff work hours, consultant legal fees, etc., etc. were utilized to "take on" HUD to reduce Section 8 rental units from 1660+ to a more equitable figure closer to 800. The fact that key city staff did all of this (at a still undisclosed cost) only to now say that there really are only 950 vouchers in the city. What a royal and costly screw up! What bad publicity for an already impacted Middletown! Which way is it city staff/leaders?
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What A City
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 06 2009 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Mr. Adkins:
"voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown" Just curious Mr. Adkins. Given your statement above that voucher holders could choose anywhere they wanted to live, why do you think those voucher holders chose Middletown over towns that offer much more than Middletown does? Other cities have better shopping, better schools, better housing quality, better city operation perhaps, lower taxes. less crime........why chose Middletown? Is there something we don't know that was offered to live here? |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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A letter of appreciation should be sent to Butler and Warren for providing ACCURATE data regarding the Section 8 presence in Middletown. After all of the volumes of rhetoric and pontificating from One Donham Plaza since March 2009, it's good that an effort was FINALLY made to verify those Middletown residents currently possessing vouchers compared to what was the case in 2008. Lastly, how many voucher holders of other jurisdictions now live in Middletown? That would also be a good piece of information to have.
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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If you get a chance, reread the entire blog post. At the height of MPHA, the city housed more than 1,700 vouchers. We went over our 1662 allocation because voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown to rise our numbers up over our direct allocation.
The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown. The rest have voluntarily chosen to relocate out of Middletown on their own or new voucher holders have chosen other locations to live rather than Middletown. No policies and no procedures on the part of the City. We anticipated this result when we turned the program over to Butler and Warren and the results have been as expected. We are out of the subsidized housing business. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so?"
This surprises me based on the talk when the BMHA took over. I seem to remember that there was no way that Middletown could unload 900+ of the 1662 to get to the proper 700ish at the time as it would be too difficult to find any other Butler Cty towns to take those 900+. I thought Middletown would have to live with the 1662. Did they end up forcing other communities to take the 900 or was it voluntary? Can't see any community (except Middletown of course) actually wanting any vouchers at all, much less 900. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Doug, I noted with great interest the recent MJ newspaper article where you said, "So now we’ve reduced Section 8 by about 45% to date." First of all, I never recall anyone ever saying that only 950 of the HCV recipients actually lived in Middletown. As I've noted elsewhere, this was clearly not the case as recently as 2008. Since you've informed us this (apparently) previously unknown statistic, I'd like to know what policies and procedures that you have used to accomplish this? Please tell.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Doug, so only 950 of the 1660+ voucher holders now live in Middletown? It was much, much higher than that when I was directed to obtain a database of participating landlords with attendant property addresses from CONSOC for Marty Kohler, Les Landen and Judy back in early 2008.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Viet Vet - Former city staff Ron Olson, Neil Barille and Angela Tucker played principal roles in the escalation of subsidized rental housing in Middletown. I fail to understand why they (apparently) were not contacted to ascertain what took place from 2000-2003. And, it seems bizarre that city council minutes do not reflect proper approvals of these matters. I do recall being shown documents by a subordinate where former Community Development Division staff signed off on these requests. Of course, you remember how I was ultimately forced out of city employment because I knew too much about wasteful/imprudent uses of HUD funds prior to my arrival in January 2007. |
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Douglas Adkins
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 22 2016 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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The number of vouchers remains the same. They are now managed by Butler and Warren metropolitan housing. The reduction is in the number of vouchers being used within the City limits of Middletown.
Voucher holders choose where to utilize their voucher. That's not a HUD choice or a Middletown choice. |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so? Are we to understand that this 45% reduction took place following HUD's approval of the administrative change? Was there ever any public notification of HUD's approval to reduce 900+ vouchers?
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