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Section 8 Update

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Section 8 Update
    Posted: Jan 18 2017 at 11:21am

Adkins: “This drawdown was by design and anticipated by all parties. The numbers are exactly where we projected them to be.

Well now I’m really confused. If you anticipated that the Section 8 vouchers would be reduced simply by the transfer of the MPHA Section 8 program to Butler County why didn’t this transfer occur years ago? I remember that Miss Judy suggested this shortly after she was hired.

 

 

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Douglas Adkins View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Douglas Adkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 18 2017 at 8:00am
I'm willing to spend some time on here talking about projects and answering questions. But I only have so much time to devote to this. I do have a city to run with lots of moving pieces.

The Section 8 numbers are correct and valid. The old number comes from MPHA and we knew where all 1662 vouchers lived within the city. The updated number comes from Warren and Butler Metro added together. They each ran reports for Middletown only.

This drawdown was by design and anticipated by all parties. The numbers are exactly where we projected them to be.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2017 at 12:19pm
Here is the link to our MUSA discussion in June 2014 on Section 8. 

http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5768&PN=1&title=section-8

The lawsuits against the city concerning this subject are still before the courts.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2017 at 7:49am

Adkins: The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown.

 

Doug
I must request proof and hard number research of your claim that Middletown has reduced Section 8 vouchers from 1662 to 950 living within Middletown city limits. You are stating as fact that 700 voucher holders have moved from the city limits of Middletown over the past several years.
Doug, all HUD research clearly shows that once a family gets a Section 8 voucher, very few families move away from the area. For you to state that 700 families have moved away from Middletown over the past several years is simply unheard of in this program. The only way a large number of vouchers move from an area to my knowledge is because of the demo of a large apartment complex.

Therefore your research and your claim of 950 current vouchers must be incorrect.
Please provide us with written proof of this 700 reduction of Section 8 vouchers within the city limits of Middletown.


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swohio75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 1:37pm
A Consolidated Plan from 2010 shows nearly 600 units in privately‐owned properties that qualify for low income housing tax credits.  Robin Springs at the time was listed with 120 units and all 120 units were LI.

Property owners came before City Council several years ago seeking approval for these Tax Credits as part of their complex remodeling. It's my understanding Council approval is required for these tax credits to be approved at the state or federal level

That doesn't mean all 120 units are filled with Section 8 Voucher holders.  It means that maximum income restrictions apply based on the # of bedrooms/# of residents in a unit.  

I vaguely recall Council adopting a formal/informal policy for staff that Council would not approve Income Tax Credits for new multi-family construction.  
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Analytical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 12:26pm
Jurisdictional boundaries for both Butler and Warren County subsidized rental housing administration is not the issue.  Please explain how the number of current vouchers SITUATED WITHIN MIDDLETOWN CITY LIMITS has mysteriously dropped from your reported 1,660+ over the years to 950 in the past 18-24 months?  Since you recently reported the 950 unit figure, why was it EVER NECESSARY to undertake such a time-consuming and costly city dispute with HUD over the last number of years using 1,660+ as the benchmark?  Which is it?
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Douglas Adkins View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Douglas Adkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 12:15pm
Let me see if I can find a map that lays it out, but yes, Robin Springs is part of the Warren County count.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 12:11pm
Doug
Please tell me where the CITY LIMITS of Middletown extend to on the East SIde?
Are the Robin Springs Apts., 120 units within the city limits of Middletown? I know they are included in the Section 8 count for Warren County.
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Douglas Adkins View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Douglas Adkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 12:02pm
Vivian,

When MPHA was running, we had 1,662+ vouchers living within the city limits of Middletown. The entire program was shut down and split between Warren and Butler. The 950 I've referred to is the number of vouchers living within the city limits in Middletown at this time as reported by both Warren and Butler added together.   Apples to apples.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 11:41am
Adkins: "At the height of MPHA, the city had just over 1,700 vouchers operating in the City of Middletown.  By December 2016, that number is down to around 950 vouchers.  The expected dispersion happened as predicted.  As time goes on, we should continue to see reductions in Section 8 in the city."

This is a very misleading statement for the general public to understand in my opinion.  The 1,662 vouchers managed by MPHA included Section 8 vouchers located in both Butler County and Warren County.  
I believe that all Section 8 housing located East of Dixie Hwy., are now included in the total Section 8 vouchers for Warren County.

Therefore the number of Section 8 vouchers have not really been reduced…but are now counted and split into two different areas.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 10:57am
If we don't have the over abundance of Sec 8 vouchers then what's the problem with the older housing stock if they pass inspections and health regulations? Again it seems slanted towards rental stock or did I miss something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 9:12am
RECENT COMMENTS of Mr. A. published in the MJ and posted on this blog are what's making this sordid mess a topic of conversation once again!  It's not a rehash of the past!

We're now told that Middletown really doesn't have the overabundance of Section 8 rentals after all in contrast to what he has been saying since 2009.  As Vivian Moon would say, that puzzles her three little gray cells.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 8:51am
Well here we go again: Spin city. Here's to the man that knows how to spin it the best. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote What A City Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Middletown29 Middletown29 wrote:

Isn't this screw up by the City old news by now.
Looks like they now have situation under control and bad actors are longer longer around.


Perhaps letting this blow over is the right thing to do 29, but we have had so many city screw-ups the past 30 years that it is beyond letting it go. It is the convenient thing to suggest that the clusters in the city building who created this voucher overabundance are all now gone and we should start anew from this point on. Easy to do that way, but if something isn't done to fix this repeat behavior from our city leaders, it will continue with just a shoulder shrug and all is well mentality. All is not well in this city and this damaged town was created by past and current occupiers of the city building. THEY have run the city into the ground and now Adkins is trying to repair the ailing ghetto they have created. Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY to the citizens if we continue to forgive their clusters? Right now, they constantly screw up and we just let it ride without a whimper (with the exception of the criticism dealt out on this forum). Major apathy from the people doesn't help the cause either. City leaders have done so poorly that a large percentage of people living here no longer care what happens to the town.

Simply put, we don't hold our city government accountable. We have a watchdog in place with this forum but we stop there and don't take our issues to the meetings. Why? Partly because when you go to their meetings, they ignore your message of dissatisfaction, cutting you off at the three minute time limit and only listen to their friends (who can talk as long as they wish) Councils and the city managers in the last 40 years have never paid any attention to the people they represent. They do as they please and (Mulligan said this himself), if you don't like it live somewhere else. That demonstrates the man has no class and chooses to use a dictatorial attitude toward the people. Basically a pompous --- who's too big for his britches, a trait that a lot of them have. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 7:30am
Isn't this screw up by the City old news by now.
Looks like they now have situation under control and bad actors are longer longer around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 6:34am
In summary, how INEXCUSABLE it is that so many city staff work hours, consultant legal fees, etc., etc. were utilized to "take on" HUD to reduce Section 8 rental units from 1660+ to a more equitable figure closer to 800.  The fact that key city staff did all of this (at a still undisclosed cost) only to now say that there really are only 950 vouchers in the city.  What a royal and costly screw up!  What bad publicity for an already impacted Middletown!  Which way is it city staff/leaders?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote What A City Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 13 2017 at 5:54am
Mr. Adkins:
"voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown"

Just curious Mr. Adkins. Given your statement above that voucher holders could choose anywhere they wanted to live, why do you think those voucher holders chose Middletown over towns that offer much more than Middletown does?

Other cities have better shopping, better schools, better housing quality, better city operation perhaps, lower taxes. less crime........why chose Middletown? Is there something we don't know that was offered to live here?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 5:20pm
A letter of appreciation should be sent to Butler and Warren for providing ACCURATE data regarding the Section 8 presence in Middletown.  After all of the volumes of rhetoric and pontificating from One Donham Plaza since March 2009, it's good that an effort was FINALLY made to verify those Middletown residents currently possessing vouchers compared to what was the case in 2008.  Lastly, how many voucher holders of other jurisdictions now live in Middletown?  That would also be a good piece of information to have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Douglas Adkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 3:54pm
If you get a chance, reread the entire blog post. At the height of MPHA, the city housed more than 1,700 vouchers. We went over our 1662 allocation because voucher holders get to choose where they live. The City government doesn't control that. People from other jurisdictions used their voucher in Middletown to rise our numbers up over our direct allocation.

The 950 number used in the blog post came from asking Butler and Warren metro to run their current numbers of voucher holders living within Middletown.

The rest have voluntarily chosen to relocate out of Middletown on their own or new voucher holders have chosen other locations to live rather than Middletown.

No policies and no procedures on the part of the City. We anticipated this result when we turned the program over to Butler and Warren and the results have been as expected. We are out of the subsidized housing business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 3:36pm
"So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so?"

This surprises me based on the talk when the BMHA took over. I seem to remember that there was no way that Middletown could unload 900+ of the 1662 to get to the proper 700ish at the time as it would be too difficult to find any other Butler Cty towns to take those 900+. I thought Middletown would have to live with the 1662. Did they end up forcing other communities to take the 900 or was it voluntary? Can't see any community (except Middletown of course) actually wanting any vouchers at all, much less 900.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 2:09pm
Doug, I noted with great interest the recent MJ newspaper article where you said, "So now we’ve reduced Section 8 by about 45% to date."

First of all, I never recall anyone ever saying that only 950 of the HCV recipients actually lived in Middletown.  As I've noted elsewhere, this was clearly not the case as recently as 2008.

Since you've informed us this (apparently) previously unknown statistic, I'd like to know what policies and procedures that you have used to accomplish this?  Please tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 1:46pm
Doug, so only 950 of the 1660+ voucher holders now live in Middletown?  It was much, much higher than that when I was directed to obtain a database of participating landlords with attendant property addresses from CONSOC for Marty Kohler, Les Landen and Judy back in early 2008.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 1:15pm
Viet Vet -

Former city staff Ron Olson, Neil Barille and Angela Tucker played principal roles in the escalation of subsidized rental housing in Middletown.  I fail to understand why they (apparently) were not contacted to ascertain what took place from 2000-2003.  And, it seems bizarre that city council minutes do not reflect proper approvals of these matters.  I do recall being shown documents by a subordinate where former Community Development Division staff signed off on these requests.  Of course, you remember how I was ultimately forced out of city employment because I knew too much about wasteful/imprudent uses of HUD funds prior to my arrival in January 2007.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Douglas Adkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 1:07pm
The number of vouchers remains the same. They are now managed by Butler and Warren metropolitan housing. The reduction is in the number of vouchers being used within the City limits of Middletown.

Voucher holders choose where to utilize their voucher. That's not a HUD choice or a Middletown choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2017 at 1:03pm
So, the number of HUD Housing Choice (Section 8) Vouchers in Middletown has dropped from 1660+ to 700+ since the transfer of the program to Butler Metro Housing Authority and Warren County Housing Authority over the past 18 months or so?  Are we to understand that this 45% reduction took place following HUD's approval of the administrative change?  Was there ever any public notification of HUD's approval to reduce 900+ vouchers?
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