buddhalite:

"See - this is exactly why this forum has left a bad taste in people's mouths....."

Why, because it questions what the leaders are doing? It brings to the attention what the public should know about their city government? It highlights the policies and practices that has done harm to the city? It creates an information vehicle that provides news that the puppets at the Journal never publish because it is too controversial? It tells the truth rather than embellishing the city propaganda?

buddhalite:

"Argh. I give up. I'm going to do my best to ensure that this forum isn't just a bunch of complaints - but a place where the people and the leaders of our fair city can come and offer/discuss possible SOLUTIONS to the issues - not just complain."

So, referring to the new school buildings (see one of your earlier posts in this discussion) as "putting lipstick on a pig" is your way to ensure that this forum isn't a bunch of complaints? Couldn't this be construed as being an adversarial comment to the school folks? Reread some of your earlier comments. Sounds as if you have now jumped to the other side of the fence supporting the city leaders from where you started and are now criticizing what you once did before your perceived city supporting conversion.

Many "complaints" have been justified with actual data if you read back through this site. Pick a topic and you are bound to find some supporting data that backs claims made here. Vivian Moon and Mike Presta are our main researchers here.

This forum has been here awhile. All of a sudden we have captured the interest of the city manager and the police chief. Before they entered the fray, we had the attention of the former school board president, Ms. Marcia Andrew, who has apparently stopped participating. Not a word from the new board president Urso as yet. Never have heard from Mulligan nor the city council or school board members either.

Buddhalite,

As the chief said, he has held or attended similar meets to the one he has proposed. Most were limited to fire/police concerns and were in small venues with limited attendance. This is in no way derogatory to the efforts put forth to make those meets happen. However, if the proposed meet at Java Johnny’s goes unadvertised and is known only to the few who are involved on this board, it seems likely that both factions will be preaching to a very small choir … again. Hope not, but we could be spinning our wheels.

In other words, this “first step” has been taken repeatedly and ended with no plans to go further. Vet’s request was for much more. No disrespect is meant toward Chief Muterspaw, but … A larger venue and attendance by at least some from city hall and council would lead to better opportunity for meaningful discussion. Yes, getting involved and informing as many more people as possible would increase our chances of making positive change … all of us want that, right? “Friend”, best of luck on making it happen in the “real world”!

Buddha, you have not been around to witness the city’s very real harassment of those with differing opinions and who truly have tried to calmly reason with them. City council meetings allow 3 minute comments by citizens IF you notify before hand. And you have not been here to see how, in meetings, council consistently dismisses virtually all complaints and suggestions. Actually, the preoccupied council probably didn’t hear a word that was said. There is no feed back from council and with a cursory “thank you for your comments” that’s the end of it. It’s just that simple. That’s a just ignore ‘em, that’ll teach ‘em attitude.

After the public is treated with such disdain, no wonder they are apathetic.   Every time we elect, to council, someone with new ideas, if they do not fall in line, council gets rid of them (harassment style). City hall has made it clear for years … they know everything and we know nothing. That attitude seems set in concrete, and IS harming our city and our ability to have meaningful communication whether that is “their aim” or not. The adverse effects of that are staring us in the face all over town.
Over the past 30 years OUR CONCERTED EFFORTS failed to get the MANY COUNCILS to listen to the citizens’ POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS, leaving us the last resort … complaining! If you can’t work with them, for the sake of our city, the only recourse is to replace them.

Your supposed reuse (a pot shot by proxy) of muckrakers as a description of some on this forum, has to be in reference to city hall since that is the main focus here. If city hall doesn’t like having their muck raked then they should stop making muck. It would be interesting to know your source of initial use of the muckraker description. BTW … this is the first time I have heard of it. Was it on this blog?

Also, Vet is right, the vindictive factor does enter the picture. If this meet is limited to a few people, such a small group from MUSA would be very vulnerable to city scrutiny and subsequent harassment. So small a group is nearly the same as the one-on-one that Doug has offered several times and which is viewed as a “hostile environment”. In previous meetings, names and addresses were requested from anyone who wanted to ask questions. Dissenters can then be singled out for possible unfriendly persuasion. If you (Buddha) were the recipient of some manipulative or vindictive city tactics (hopefully this will never happen to you), you might understand why some discussions about city management are less than complimentary.

Perhaps Doug’s reluctance to be involved herewith is because, in any public forum, he might be confronted about the harassment coming out of city hall. Or he may not feel confident about fielding unrehearsed questions. Seems he prefers total control, like how he controls council meetings where he admits he has everything pre-programmed. Is this why HE COMPLAINS that we are not being civil with him? It seems to me that Doug has sent the Chief to take the flak for him and so will side step having to attend a meet.

Even with all this said, we must still keep trying and take any positive gesture from city hall into account. It’s a shame that we must do so with so much caution. It goes without saying … these days nothing involving government from national to local level is easy. Correction of so much nonsense in government could start at the local level and work up. Let’s show them that we will take a stand.

City hall needs to treat their citizens with the same respect that they expect and require from us. And that means we should have freedom of speech to express opposing ideas (that just might be of use) to a city government of the people, by the people, for ALL the people, not just the people in power. City hall is holding tight to it’s own lipstick adorned pet pig downtown …. “pie in the sky” which has been heretofore force fed to the general public. I expect that this will leave a “bad taste in peoples’ mouths.”

Vet … You have their attention. Stay strong!!

Furthermore - I'm not the least bit scared of anyone at city hall.  What are they going to do?  Cut off my water and sewer because they don't like something I said?!?!?!?  Argh.

FYI - the corporate sponsor was going to pay for flyers and social media promotion and such - but no more.

Chief,

Correct me if I wrong but , Doug has repeatedly agreed to meet with you all and NO ONE has taken him up on it. No one. I'm telling you, Chief you are seriously wasting your time on this forum. It's great that you are willing to meet with the community . Talking with those people that will show up is a great idea. However, you really are seriously wasting your time on this forum. Whistlersmom just proved my earlier point. "Reprisals"? What reprisals? Is Doug going to come to your house in the dark of night and Pull you out of your bed and lock you up? Will the fire department not respond to your 911 calls? Do any of you know anyone that has asked a legitimate fact based question of city council or the chief and has been the victim of a "reprisal"? I'm telling you, Chief, I'd just stop posting on this forum you'll thank me for it.   

Wow Middiemom - I don't know about you, but if Mr. Adkins offered me a personal meeting - I'd take it.  It's far easier to bend someone's ear in private than in public.  

buddahlite:

"If it is true - and can be verified - hey - I guarantee my friends at Cox media's properties will print, publish and air any kind of corruption like that."

Bob, there are incidences in this forum over the years that indicate corruption, money wasting, hidden agendas and pet projects using taxpayer money for friends of the city of all types. How about contacting your friends at Cox Media and giving them and overview of what is transpiring in this city behind the scenes and out of the public's view. You can start with Adkins contacts to the councilmembers, between council meetings concerning city business which is a questionable Sunshine Law violation suspicion that councilmembers are being prodded to vote a certain way on issues outside the proper venue.   

You can also mention the handling of funds earmarked for certain needs and funneled to other funds. Ask Vivian Moon about the history on this topic. She has presented data throughout this forum on the subject of "where did the money go" and using block grant money for other purposes. Analytical may be a source also.

Or how about the city spending millions of taxpayer dollars to buy real estate,
concentrated in the downtown area and then giving it away to their developer buddies for a buck but bashing the hell out of the O'Reillys auto parts place and providing as much resistance as possible for them to develop their business downtown. Not a friend of the city I guess.

Or, hey, how about the city giving 75 thousand taxpayer dollars to the MMF ane, to this date, we still don't know if they repaid the loan, not to mention the taxpayer dollar loan to the Moormans, friends of the city, to start their stained glass business downtown. Never have seen it printed where they paid back the 65 grand loan to them either.

Duncan Oil?, Office Outfitters?, Rose Furniture?, Manchester Hotel?, Hobby Lobby?, PAC money?, Sonshine Building? (Sue Wittman giveaway?), Old Seniors Building buyback?, Old Barnitz Bank building?, Thatcher building give-aways?, Cinci State failure on enrollment numbers, Old Studio Theatre fiasco, Failure of Bicentennial Commons on non-usage .....etc.

Plenty of ammo to keep an outside investigator busy here if they want a story. I can see the caption now......" A City Against The People...Kept In The Dark"

Listen everyone,

Okay - if you're gonna call me out in a forum - be prepared to take the wrath of Bob - because that's what is going to happen.