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Cincy State To Commit $20M For Middletown Campus

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randy View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 5:44pm
Source MiddletownJournal.com
 
By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer 4:25 PM Tuesday, November 23, 2010

CINCINNATI — Cincinnati State Technical and Community College intends to borrow up to $20 million to construct and renovate buildings in downtown Middletown for a new branch campus.

According to the board of trustee’s meeting packet for their regular meeting today, Nov. 23, in Cincinnati, the school will borrow up to $20 million to make improvements to the Manchester Inn at 127 Manchester Ave. and CG&E building at 1 N. Main St. The funds would also be used for possible construction at the 3.2 acre lot at 105 Main St. — the former site of the Swallens Department Store and city parking garage

FULL STORY AT MiddletownJournal.com
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 5:47pm
As I posted this on MUSA the title was as I posted. then too seconds later they changed it to this new title
 
 

Cincinnati State intends to spend millions on Middletown campus; some trustees concerned school may enter “into a money pit”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 8:48pm
What will they come up with next ? Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 9:29pm
The one trustee referred to Middletown as a "museum."  That's putting it nicely.  Now watch one of our esteemed council pay them back with a quip about C St. being a matchbook cover school and how it's not a "real" college.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2010 at 10:26pm
Nice of the Journal to switch the focus of the article onto the negative side of things, such that a careless reader might almost overlook the fact that Cincy State is looking at investing $20 Million.  A real shame for the city that would be. (!) 
 
And if I read the trustee's comments correctly, he may be referring to the Manchester Inn or one of the other buildings as a museum, not Middletown.  I would hope that a Trustee of a university is not so stupid as to 1) call an entire city a museum, and 2) call Middletown, of all cities, a museum, since this hardly seems like an appropriate description for an old industrial town like Middletown.
 
I do hope this comes about, however, and that this investment answers the somewhat valid criticism of the project that it's all Middletown city money funding everything, and that it's a give-away to Cincy State.  If they do invest this magnitude of money that would make it about 95% Cincy State and 5% Middletown--a great deal to the city and a credit to its leaders who (hopefully) help make it happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Voice of Reason Voice of Reason wrote:

Nice of the Journal to switch the focus of the article onto the negative side of things, such that a careless reader might almost overlook the fact that Cincy State is looking at investing $20 Million.  A real shame for the city that would be. (!) 
 

And if I read the trustee's comments correctly, he may be referring to the Manchester Inn or one of the other buildings as a museum, not Middletown.  I would hope that a Trustee of a university is not so stupid as to 1) call an entire city a museum, and 2) call Middletown, of all cities, a museum, since this hardly seems like an appropriate description for an old industrial town like Middletown.

 

I do hope this comes about, however, and that this investment answers the somewhat valid criticism of the project that it's all Middletown city money funding everything, and that it's a give-away to Cincy State.  If they do invest this magnitude of money that would make it about 95% Cincy State and 5% Middletown--a great deal to the city and a credit to its leaders who (hopefully) help make it happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 6:39am
Whoops- wrong button.

Voice of Reason says "I do hope this comes about, however, and that this investment answers the somewhat valid criticism of the project that it's all Middletown city money funding everything, and that it's a give-away to Cincy State. If they do invest this magnitude of money that would make it about 95% Cincy State and 5% Middletown--a great deal to the city and a credit to its leaders who (hopefully) help make it happen."........ I hope it works and they are successful too Voice, but since Cincy State is under a lease obligation only, I wonder how long they will stay if the enrollment numbers aren't what they want them to be, or if the city decides in the future, to lay some unexpected costs on them for revenue and they get fed up with the city hierarchy like some businesses have done, and they pack up and leave?????? They are not starting with a full slate of curriculum and offering the full plate in the beginning just to get a feel as to response I guess. The 20 mil hasn't been approved just yet. What happens if the leaders at Cincy State change their minds and the rehab funding for these buildings falls through? What will the city do with these buildings they now own? They've already started out mothballing two of them before we get started with the project. We could end up with a scenario downtown where instead of Thatcher's estate owning these buildings, the city will be in Thatcher's situation trying to find a viable use for them, as he did. Both Mulligan and Scott-Jones did say it was a handshake deal based on trust with no reassurances. Alot of risk/taxpayer money involved for the city, based on a hand shake and a lease agreement, don't you think?
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 7:26am
I thought it was mentioned at council that the city can back out of the buidlings purchases if the C St. deal falls through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 7:51am
Vet
I think we need to take a quick look at what has happened over the past year…..
We approved a bond for 1.2 million for the demo of Swallens and Parking Garage.
We are also the bond holder for the first phase of the new Greentree project at Atrium.
Several weeks ago we were told that this project would require 15 million dollars in bonds now the price tag has increased to 20 million dollars.
Then we have the PAC deal that has not been completed at half a million.
All of this while we are reducing our city reserves to 15% (Without the vote or approval by City Council).    
No matter how you look at what has happen over the past year we are talking about a serious debt load in the future for every citizen of Middletown.
Where are all the new jobs that will help repay this debt?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nelson...Himself Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 8:19am
Well said Miss Vivian!!  ClapClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 9:18am
It seems that O'Dell and his group would not have charged into this branch campus thing without consulting or having the buy-in of his board.  Now the board is raising eyebrows at this deal??  Seems like he put the cart before the horse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 9:22am
I think on its face, Cinci State has shown a real commitment to this project. If the Board approved these funds, fantastic. It beats torn down buildings and a wasteland. I have absolutely no idea why Cinci State in doing this in Middletown, and what went on behind the scenes, as their site is just off 75, but if they want to lock in and reach the northern demographic---its great.
 
I cannot re-state how many fine programs recruit from Cinci State, including IBM, and many fine law schools with their paralegal program, so if they can recruit enough individuals who attend the school, this is a great opportunity. They cover everything from high end instruction for healthcare technology, legal, IT, and public safety, it has great potential from Trenton, Madison, Franklin, Monroe, Lebanon, Centreville, Miamisburg, and its a nice anchor for those to start here, and then go on to UC.
 
I see only upside now this commitment has been made. I cannot see the logic as to "why Middletown", but that;s for the Board and others to figure out. I personally think its very competitive with MUM, and will have an impact upon them (not that MUM is going anywhere), but that's the Dean's worry, not mine.
 
With the $20 Mm being put in, they won't pull the plug soon by any stretch of the imagination. I think the sking in game has skewed significantly to Cinci State, so bravo Middletown! As for PAC, who knows. With all the excitement sometimes youth can bring, maybe it will work, although I just don't see alot of $$$ being dropped on authentic art, but there is cash in the hands of many in Middletown.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 11:04am
I agree with the guest.
C St.would be a real accomplishment improvement to a long dead area.
Makes a lot of sense to use the former Swallens area also.
I see this as becoming a much more attractive/used area than MU-M down the road--agreed.
Fits much better with the demographics.
Still the minor inconvenience with accessibility, though rt.4, rt 73 and across the W Midd bridge would be much more in play.
If this works out, PAC would be better served and much less of a priority(though still a very un-necessary taxpayer expense). Are we getting car hoods instead of jobs, businesses and artists now?

The whole long-range borrowing is a major concern--how will Council/Admin make this work without a serious increase in tax-paying citizens and businesses? those now in charge will be long gone when it is time to pay the piper, while the long-term locals will remain.

Hope the C St thing comes through--but as mentioned, "why here in that location?"
may work well for us though.
Let's hope for the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Bill Bill wrote:

It seems that O'Dell and his group would not have charged into this branch campus thing without consulting or having the buy-in of his board.  Now the board is raising eyebrows at this deal??  Seems like he put the cart before the horse.
 
 
I think a lot of "eyebrows" should be raised about this deal. If you do get the campus and educate a handful of people who then "leave" town for jobs in Dayton,West Chester and Cincinnati what sense of accomplishment does that provide the city ? We educate people only to have them leave and seek employment else where ? Yeah,major accomplishment.
 
The first priority of the city should be jobs,not arts and not some small and insignificant college building. Middeltown truly is a "welfare city".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 12:32pm
Wait a minute Hernes, Miami Oxford has about 35,000 or more students, but about 6,000 residents, so Miami is a failure because not all students stay in Oxford? Many students try to stay in the area they were educated....can't beat the prices in the Middletown market. If this did not come, downtown Middletown would come down. Assumption  a few professors and administration staff will be employed? Payroll taxes. Quality of life for residents who may want to take a class or two. Skin thrown in with $20 Mm vs $500Kk. I can live with this deal. PAC not as comfortable, but there is plenty of dough on Curryer, Thorn Hill, da Vinci, elsewhere, to drop enough cash to at least keep Marvin from Starvin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 1:43pm
I don't think you can compare Miami Oxford to Cin State.  Your statement contradicts itself in that if there are 6k residents and 35k students - obviously the students do not try to stay in the area they receive their education.  Not to mention Oxford has student housing and brings in a lot of students from out of the states.  Don't see any of that happening with a Cincinnati State.
 
Plus Oxford downtown area is made up of shops that are geared to the college town.  Look they even have a movie theatre - we do not have that here. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 1:46pm
I think 35k is way high.  Try half that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 5:32pm
Still--the Oxford students live for years in the Oxford community, along with considerable faculty and staff.
So the local Oxford economy is largely fueled by the university and everyone involved.

Cincy St.-Middletown will not be that similar since it will be primarily a short-term commuter school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 6:51pm
I think this C St. deal will end up being less transformational than some believe.  As spider and others mention, this is a commuter school.  Other than perhaps a couple coffee shops and a sandwich shop or two, I don't see huge impact.  Where are the significant jobs and the significant improvement of the tax base? 
 
This could still be a nice development in that some vacant buildings will be used but I just don't see this as a cure all.  Nor do I see it as something that will be copied nationally as ASJ has breathlessly stated.  What's so unique about it anyway -- is it possible that this is the only time a commuter school has expanded into an urban area through the use of old buildings?  I would be surprised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 8:50pm
No, the University of Kentucky has many locations throughout Kentucky using empty or vacated buildings. I re-red the article and felt there was some lingering doubt it would be worth spending $20 Mm to renovate. How much for the suare ft they need, would it be to have someone build a facility for tgem, that they lease? Throw in the 'green' energy" and such, and my gut tells me this is going to fall by the wayside or someone will be picking up considerable expense. That might include about $5 Mm by the Thatcher estate or others. The use of the term "musuem" was not spoken in a most favorable tone. The absolute worse thing that would happen is both PAC and the State deal fall through, after the hoopla which has been raised. Museum is bad enough, grave dug and dirt covered, is even worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 9:31pm
I don't like the tone of the article or the comments. I had assumed when Dr. O'Dell (or O'Neil or Owens or however many names he was called by AJ) spoke in front of council...twice...that he had the backing of his college.  I'm starting to wonder.  Or maybe this is just posturing to get this cash-strapped city to pony up more $$ to get this done. "Thank you sir may I have another!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 24 2010 at 11:25pm
Bill, I think you just hit the nail with the hammer on your thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2010 at 9:34am
Bill, yes, I see your point. You may be on to something. Larry says the following, as the position is as
the Trustees demand the position is assumed and does city council:
 
 
 
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