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HOW THE CITY WASTES $$$

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whistlersmom View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 12 2017 at 8:00pm

HOW THE CITY WASTES $$$

Legal notice in Monday July 10, 2017 Journal-News of special meeting of City of Middletown Planning Commission on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:00 P.M. regarding the Sawyer’s Mill Subdivision... Ryan Homes is interested in building their product in the Sawyer’s Mill Subdivision. Planning Commission members will be taking a trip to the Ryan Homes Subdivision development called Amelia Park in Amelia, Ohio to tour homes. The bus is scheduled to leave from the City Building at 3:00PM (meeting in the City Building main lobby).

Does anyone believe that mid-priced ($150,000) new homes will be built in Middletown? With no jobs, crumbling infrastructure, lousy schools, high taxes and no amenities who would move into these homes? Is Ryan Homes expecting the City of Middletown to subsidize this venture? Does this trip (starting at 3:00 P.M.) include a charter bus and a nice dinner. Sounds like another waste of our very limited resources. So, maybe they will raise water bills again to cover more wasted $$$. Be on the lookout for Mr Adkins to ask for another levy on real estate soon.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing" Edmond Burke
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swohio75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2017 at 9:01pm
Ask the folks who are spending upwards of $300k-$400k on homes in Renaissance..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 8:50am
And the Sawyer's Mill development is located in the Franklin City Schools, so I don't believe the real estate is subject to MSC tax rates..
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buddhalite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 1:51pm
How exactly is going on a fact finding trip a waste of money?  Don't we put these people in these positions to make decisions on our behalf?  And if so - shouldn't they make the most informed decision possible?

Bob
Buddhalite - about 50 pounds short of a full buddha, but was 30 over so the diet is working! Never mind - diet quit working, but then again, I quit the diet! :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 2:00pm
Pray tell, what is your expertise in home building or land development?  Your seem to be full of self-aggrandizing opinions but woefully short on real-world plans and community betterment solutions.  The floor is yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 2:15pm
Nelson,

Instead of grilling me over my expertise (which by the way, I've never done to you, nor will I) why don't you just answer the question that I asked?

Bob
Buddhalite - about 50 pounds short of a full buddha, but was 30 over so the diet is working! Never mind - diet quit working, but then again, I quit the diet! :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 5:30pm
The City of Middletown has too many community betterment deficiencies for relevant, meaningful discussions not to take place on this blog.  Extraneous, trivial and non-relevant posts too often stymie any hope of problem-solving discourse.  You be the judge of what matters most to you and what might be in the best interests of rebuilding the city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2017 at 8:22pm
The city of Middletown put  in place several years ago standards for new housing.  This includes lot size, minimum sq ft for a ranch, minimum first floor sq ft for two story (and overall sq ft), construction materials as landscaping.  

These standards have been relaxed (as allowed) not only for the previous Sawyer Mill developers but also for Fischer Homes in Renaissance.  

This is not the first trip planning commission has taking to look at a housing product--more recently trips were made (though not very far) to look at the patio home's of Fischer Homes.  

These standards were put in place to increase the quality of new home construction on what was seen as the last several large parcels of land the city had for residential development.

By all means, as Budda has stated, the planning commission should absolutely make a trip to look at a development / product proposed for Middletown, especially if it drastically veers from the standards in place.

My personal opinion--having looked at the website of Ryan Homes and the developments reference--i am not sure what's being proposed is what's best for this development.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2017 at 12:08pm
Agreed, SW, When I think of Ryan homes - something comes to mind that I don't think will be beneficial to Middletown.

Take a look, sure - but be wise with the decision.

Bob
Buddhalite - about 50 pounds short of a full buddha, but was 30 over so the diet is working! Never mind - diet quit working, but then again, I quit the diet! :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2017 at 1:34pm
I don't want to knock affordable housing options, but from my perspective, Middletown is full of affordable housing options (esp in the $120-$160k price range). I think what's trying to be accomplished is modern affordable housing options and the fact these are available in neighboring communities (or at least that's the general thinking...)

I think Ryan Homes can put out a nice product.  I am just not sure the product they are suggesting for Sawyer's Mill is the right product for Middletown or the neighborhood proposed.  By just looking at the square foot off these homes, they don't meet Middletown's guidelines.  


This decision has long-term impact on the surrounding area in general.  Anyone who watched the planning commission meetings when Fischer was requesting variances would know that those discussions were intense, often with and without compromise.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whistlersmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2017 at 5:44pm

Looks like there is a lot of agreement about the Ryan homes NOT being up to our standards and therefore, NOT what the planning commission would want. So, why is the planning commission wasting time on a long trip to look at and consider something they (should) already know is wrong for Sawyers Mill? Unless they intend to lower the standards (again), in which case why have standards at all?

To redirect the focus of this topic toward how the city wastes our money . . . take note that Middletown’s major and continued expenditure of time and money has contributed to the improvement, prestige and monetary gain (in school tax revenue) of THE SURROUNDING AREAS of Franklin and Lebanon, much, much more than to Middletown !!!!!!!

Aren’t Renaissance and Sawyers Mill both in Warren County? A sign near the entrance to The Renaissance touts that they are in Lebanon / Franklin school districts. Students living there would not have to attend the poorly rated Middletown schools, and of course Middletown gets no school levy tax dollars (about 80% of real estate taxes) from them.

Could this be a perfect example of why we should observe mistakes of the past in order to avoid repeating or continuing them?

Mr Kohler, a former city planner, revealed in an earlier planning commission meeting:

The Master Plan called for the area east of I-75 to be a medical campus, office complexes, future conference centers, office buildings, retail. He said this area was going to be the new area, the “Renaissance” of Middletown.”

On the opposite side of St Rte 122 from The Renaissance development, there are acres of empty fields adjacent to Middletown Regional Hospital which remain undeveloped partly because the Renaissance residents (rightfully) object to the too close proximity of commercial or retail development which might lower the value of their upscale properties.

More thoughtful planning by the city concerning appropriate placement of residential properties adjacent to commercial properties, would have avoided this conflict. Better, more advantageous use of the available and valuable space along the I-75 corridor, might have included more of the original Master Plan . . . office complexes etc. We could have had booming economic growth like our neighbor, West Chester has along I-75. Think of the much needed tax revenues that would have generated FOR MIDDLETOWN.

Furthermore, why aren’t we now rehabbing homes that are affordable for the average Middletonian . . . the resident who for years has paid for all the folly, poor planning and frivolous spending (on downtown) that resulted in higher and higher taxes for fewer and fewer services and amenities. 

Supporting the rebuilding and improvement of our established neighborhoods all over Middletown should broaden our tax base, and raise our residents’ hopes for a recovery that should have taken place long ago. IF, at the same time, we improve our schools’ academic performance (instead of wasting tax dollars on the unnecessary replacement of school buildings) and improve our infrastructure we will exponentially boost our ability to attract new home buyers. It would be more timely THEN to begin building new larger homes actually located IN MIDDLETOWN (so that OUR schools gain the tax dollar benefits). Our time and money should benefit Middletown, not Franklin or Lebanon. No field trips or highly paid advisers doing unnecessary studies, are needed. 

 Just use SOME COMMON SENSE! Encourage and consider public input when examining the possible consequences of proposed programs and plans. It won’t hurt ! And it might just avoid some pitfalls and mistakes that a narrow or single view point might not notice . . . Mr Adkins.

P.S.: The higher standards for new housing which were adopted for upscale Renaissance properties need not be applied to older neighborhoods where it PREVENTS rebuilding on the empty lots where homes have been razed (leaving gaping holes). The city is actually punishing, not helping, our older (but still vital) neighborhoods.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing" Edmond Burke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2017 at 8:28pm
Mom,

I couldn't agree more.  But then.....

There does seem to be unanimity amongst the 4 of us who are participating in this topic...but that doesn't mean we are necessarily in the majority.  Not saying I disagree with the sentiment - just saying that it's easy to get wrapped up in the backpatting here - but we're just 4 people out of 50k.

Bob
Buddhalite - about 50 pounds short of a full buddha, but was 30 over so the diet is working! Never mind - diet quit working, but then again, I quit the diet! :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2017 at 11:39am
RESPONSE

An interesting question would be to verify the number, locations and typical amenities of existing single-family homes "on the market" that sell for asking prices of $140,000 to $160,000 in the city?  How many of these offer greater square footage, amenities, construction specifications, etc. than the subject Ryan Homes entry level models that sell for $159,900 in Amelia?  And, what is the market absorption potential for the construction of suggested new homes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote middletownscouter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2017 at 9:54am
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Middletown_OH/type-single-family-home/price-140000-160000/pnd-include?pgsz=50

Here's a link to realtor.com for a search for single-family properties in Middletown with a list price of $140k - $160k.  Current search result shows right around 30, though two are really more in West Middletown / Madison area.  When you hide the pending sales, the number available drops to 17.

Of those 17 properties, they are all 3 or 4 bedroom units.  14 of them have at least 2 full bathrooms, with the other three having 1 full and at least 1 half bath.  The square footage ranges from 1269 - 2630 (average 1759).  All have garages (either attached or detached), the majority of them being 2 car garages (2 are only one car, one is 3 car).  All 17 properties are in the Middletown CSD.  Didn't have a lot of time to look at other amenities.




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