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MAY BOND & LEVY

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 27 2013 at 9:55am
Posted: 7:00 a.m. Sunday, Jan. 27, 2013

$55 initiative topic at special meeting

By Rick McCrabb

MIDDLETOWN —

Middletown Board of Education members will discuss placing a combination bond issue/permanent improvement levy on the May ballot this week.

The board has called a special meeting for 8 a.m. Thursday in the Board Room of the Administration Building, 1515 Girard Ave. The purpose of this meeting is to approve a resolution to proceed with a May bond issue, according to Kelly Thorpe, the district’s treasurer.

At Monday’s regular board meeting, the board is expected to approve the necessity for a bond issue and a permanent improvement levy. Preliminary estimates call for a 3.6 mill levy, Thorpe said.

Thorpe must present approved issues to the Board of Elections before Feb. 6 to be eligible for the May 7 special election.

The $55 million initiative would fund building a middle school and making upgrades to the high school, the board has said. Some of those improvements include: adding classroom space for curriculum; moving Manchester classes, Success Academy and Freshman Academy back into the high school; providing a new gymnasium and support space and building a wrestling fieldhouse, plus demolishing the Middletown Middle School and Wade E. Miller Gym; and renovating either Barnitz Stadium  or the Glenn “Tiger” Ellison Football Complex.

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bumper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 27 2013 at 11:59am
well crack my knuckle,s !! for 55 mill and get all of that,and then some... wow...if that dosen't get a best school rating, nothing will.she could really sling the checks out the door with those funds.. just glad she's not pickin my wallet.. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 27 2013 at 3:25pm
Why waste the board member's time by calling a special meeting? Just have them mail it in as approved. This, and all the other levy proposals before this, were rubber stamped along time ago when the initial story appeared in the Journal. Has anyone ever seen a Middletown school board, that when a levy was proposed, canceled the levy?

Ok, ya don't need a "wrestling fieldhouse" people. Wrestling is hardly a main line sport at Middletown. This isn't Lakewood St. Edward where the wrestling tradition is high. How about a bowling practice facility while we're at it? What nonsense and a huge money waster. Knew we were headed for the demolishing of the Wade E Miller Gym and the old high school. Like the city government, the school board is determined to tear down every semblence of tradition this town has had over the years. Bet they don't save the scoreboards, the rims/backboards or any part of the Wade E. Hell, send the trophies in the cases to the landfill too. Tradition and past accomplishments mean nothing I guess. I'm surprised they are leaving Barnitz Stadium standing. A few more bucks and they would tear that down too.

That's it! Along with the city manager, council and some key people in the city building, the entire school board must go too.

Like the last bond levy, if you vote yes for this, you'll get nothing for your money again. They will get what they want. You will get nothing. Do you actually think the performance will improve with a new middle school or upgrades to the high school? Did improvements happen with the new elementaries? Nope.

Just vote no and stop this foolishness.

I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 27 2013 at 7:22pm
It amazes me how this levy will ikely pass but if we wanted to put a $55M levy for a massive road repair initiatve it would get voted down.
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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 9:26am

Vet, to explain the proposal for a wrestling fieldhouse:

One of the reasons for renovating and expanding the high school is to bring all of the classrooms under one roof, for both security and practical reasons. Right now, there are 12 classrooms in the Manchester Building used for general high school classes, plus the Success Academy and the Freshman Academy (our alternative schools that are a hybrid of computer-taught and teacher instruction, for kids at risk of dropping out/failing out of regular school). Although the main building is locked at the first bell and all students and late arriving visitors must go to the main entrance, sign in and be buzzed through, this security is greatly weakened by the fact that at every change of class period, students flow from the main building to and from the Manchester.
 
Currently, the wrestling practice facilities are in the basement of the high school. That space could be renovated into classrooms if wrestling was moved elsewhere. A fieldhouse can be built for a much lower cost per square foot than the cost per square foot to add extra classroom space, due to the standards that the State requires for classroom space. Nobody asked for a separate wrestling facility. It was not part of the master plan. It is a proposal from the architects and construction manager to save money on the total project.
 
And, by the way, the Middletown wrestling program has consistently produced qualifiers for the state tournament for a number of years. Jacob Globke is ranked first in the state in his weight class, and there are others with a good shot at the state competition as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 11:07am
Ms. Andrew: "this security is greatly weakened by the fact that at every change of class period, students flow from the main building to and from the Manchester".

The Manchester facility is but 30 yards away from the main high school building. If security is a concern for students (that are trending toward adulthood) then I suggest a school resource officer or one of the many assist principals accompany them to and from their journey. Wouldn't this be cheaper than asking the taxpayer to pay for rehabbing and expanding the high school? They are only a few years from going to college which will require them to walk from building to building to attend classes. Might as well get use to it now so they will be "seasoned veterans" in the art of changing classes.

Ms. Andrew:

"Currently, the wrestling practice facilities are in the basement of the high school. That space could be renovated into classrooms if wrestling was moved elsewhere"

Is there a need for more classroom space? This, in spite of a declining enrollment? Why can't you use the Paul Walker Gym for wrestling? Is it used that often that you couldn't squeeze wrestling into the schedule?

Ms. Andrew:

"And, by the way, the Middletown wrestling program has consistently produced qualifiers for the state tournament for a number of years. Jacob Globke is ranked first in the state in his weight class, and there are others with a good shot at the state competition as well"

This is justification for building a new fieldhouse for wrestling? A new building for a few individuals? Do we thrown alot of money at something to benefit a few? No matter how you look at it, wrestling is a minor sport at Middletown, with few participating in comparison to the major sports and it pulls small crowds and is not a money-maker like basketball or football appears to be.

Ms. Andrew:
"Nobody asked for a separate wrestling facility. It was not part of the master plan"

Then why consider building it if it wasn't important to begin with?

Ms. Andrew: "It is a proposal from the architects and construction manager to save money on the total project"

Well, it's gonna cost extra if they build it. How can it save money on the total project? It isn't gonna be given to the district for free.

Here's another proposal to save money......don't build a facility that you don't need and will never get value from. Again, a wrestling facility added to the overall cost of the project is money that doesn't need to be spent IMO. If you need to clear space for more classrooms (again, even as we hear that enrollment is declining) devise a contract and take the wrestling program workout to the local YMCA, use their facilities and save the taxpayer some money. They have a nice gym to hold practice and wrestling events. How about using the Paul Walker Gym for the wrestling program? It is used for girls basketball and ??????
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 11:14am
Mine and a few others I know will be Voting A Big Fat "NO".Board wants the taxpayers insight but never listen.
Good luck to you Mrs.Andrew on getting this pass.
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bumper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 11:14am
mid town school board mentality is, IMO  other schools do it also, throw up a big ole $$$$ amount and try like h ell to come up reason's why it should be passed, at no matter at what it will do to the people that have to pay for the increase, in today's uncertain economy, of lost jobs, people finding other work at much lower wages to pay to put food on the table, shoes for their kids.. THIS WE WANT IT NOW when we say in a allready over taxed broke city... even call a special get together to do it, is a crock.. i know what i would tell ya what you could do with that waste.... but i can't.. cause im in a way better city with a school that has a Excellent rating at a lower $$$$$$ amount to do it... glad my grandson with parents that care and a very happy and concerned pa paw Big smile as a better chance here now then what mid town as to offer... i really need to tell mid town schools and city thanks, i knew i and my son was making the right decision to leave this good for nothing city... THANK YOU!!!
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ktf1179 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 11:51am
I just move from Springboro just to get away from the non-stop School Levies. It looks like Springboro's mindset of asking for school levies to improve the schools and it's test scores have infiltrated Middletown now. Get ready to empty your wallets, as Middletown tries to keep up with other school district's like Springboro and Mason. Just like Springboro did 20 years ago when it wanted to be like Oakwood and Centerville. And if this passes get ready for more people on tight budgets move out of the city. The only hope would be to attract young people to Middletown with it's new flashy schools. 

Don't get me wrong I want good schools like the ones I went to in Springboro, but new buildings do not result in better test scores, attracting the right teachers, and getting parents involved do. And once Middletown starts showing Good or Excellent Academic scores, then I will vote for a new Building. In the mean time lets focus on results not buildings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 11:59am
I think we should make a deal with the Students, Teachers, Staff and Administrators. If you show us a major improvement in Test scores and overall effectiveness, We the Tax Payers will reward your hard efforts with a new school. I know the Middies can do it. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 12:15pm
Ms. Andrew, with all due respect, let's cut to the chase......you are part of a group of people who want the rest of us to trust your judgement and support your ambitions with no questions asked.

However, after the approval of 45 million in bonds a few years ago, and building the state-of-the-art facilities in your elementary school replacements, the district has achieved mimimal success in improving the performance to date. We have not been given any confidence that this new approval won't produce the same results. We wonder what we have gotten from the last levy approval.

You, and many others in the "we want to upgrade everything in sight" camp, either are in denial about the numbers produced in the state reports, can't see what we really have here in the district, or are willing to attempt to bilk the taxpayer out of every dime you can, despite knowing what the score is, to achieve your dreams of LOOKING LIKE a top notch district. The fact is, we are a poor community (54%, by Adkins estimate, as low income), and cannot afford the luxurious educational kingdom that you are striving for. A Chevy will do....we don't need a Ferrari. You know this as we all do. It appears that the school board, like the city leaders, have no desire to get in touch with the people, understand the demographics of the town and know that people can't afford your proposals. Why do you, and others, insist on forcing your desires on the people in the form of constant levies and the embellished stories that are used to support them?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsmith2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 2:43pm
My vote is NO. All of the NO voters need to get out and vote. They bank on them staying home and getting the yes people to pass it. The levy won't even be mentioned the week of the vote because they try to keep it low key and get the yes voters out there. Although, I have to say that even school district employees are saying they are voting no for the first time ever.   

The school district wastes a lot of money. The "alternative" classes were at Garfield. They closed the school, tore down the building and a few years later they take just about the same employees and put them in the same situation with the same students in a different place. Of course, they had to buy all new equipment, etc. The built an elementary school at Highview then two years later they decide to make it a middle school and spend money tearing the place apart, installing lockers, etc. Now they want to build another middle school and will do the same thing to change it back to an elementary school.

The board keeps talking about how Vail is outdated. What about Verity? They can't add on it that building and save some money? Of course not.

Anyone who wants an eye opener should go the website with the school employee wages listed. I'll list all the people in the admin building and a total of their wages later....shocking....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsmith2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 4:20pm
The website Opportunity Ohio lists school districts and employee salaries from 2004 to 2012. I did not compare Middletown City Schools to other districts and I could not find all employees from the administration offices listed.

The school district website lists the administration office departments as:

    Dept. of Learning which totals about $535,398.00 in salaries not including about 4 employees listed on the school website. Betsy Carter makes $108,921 to head this dept. This is also the dept. that the journal reported that the state said a person was buying Kroger cards for employees use and getting the points for herself and should not be doing that. Slick, huh?

   The Finance Dept. totals about $189,439 minus 6 employees. The treasurer makes $85,000 and the asst treasurer $63,668.

   The new Dept of Leadership that brought Dr. Isom from Lebanon totals $229,272. Isom makes $111,599 a year.

   The superintendent makes $128,700. That's just salary, not the other perks like a monthly car allowance. I'm sure all of these people have car allowances and they all have IPhones and IPads, etc. added to the perk list which isn't part of the salary listed.

   The athletic dept. has about 21 people listed in it. Lebo makes $91,686. the football coach makes $75,657 and he doesn't even teach...the basketball coach makes $70,178 and track is $75,121. There are still 17 employees listed that aren't included here.

    The only tech person I could find made $83,154 and that wasn't even the person in charge, Dr. Surland, the person that the superintendent moved here from Kansas City or wherever he came from.

    So, in total the salaries at just the admin bldg is a whopping $1,395,451.00 and doesn't even include about 30 employees....

   Keep this in mind when voting.
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 28 2013 at 6:45pm
I moved here 8 or 9 yrs ago when Dr Price and the school board were giving their little road show about new elementary schools. I don't recall anyone guarenting better performance scores in exchange for new schools. Anyone that believes new buildings guarantee a jump too an excellence performance score is only fooling themselves and is looking for an excuse to vote No on the levy. Personally what I heard was that having new schools would enhance the learning atmosphere of the students and not an a guaranteed performance increase. How many of you actually live in Middletown and have school aged children? New schools invite new residents and improve the city's image. Of course I know this probably doesn't matter much to many of you. IMO voting NO is citing off you nose despite your face. It is unfortunate that so many people place little to no respect in the education of the city's children.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 6:36am
Pac, I will respectfully disagree with you on your stance on education in this town.

Price and his cronies, at one time during the presentation to the community, made statements that left no doubt that if we gave them new schools, we would see performance enhanced because the kids would have the latest whistles and bells and be in an environment condusive to better learning. To me, that kinda eludes to a "if you give us new, you will see a difference" theme.

Everyone in this town (in any town) wants to see the kids learn and the school district produce good results for the money given to them through levies. It ain't happening here. Look at the test scores in the last two decades. When comparing results from year to year, do they look like there has been any measureable improvement despite new programs being implemented, despite new elementaries being built? Beside new people being shuffled around and hired from the outside? We could have the Taj Mahal of school buildings but NO ONE, who values education is going to move here right now because the RESULTS PRODUCED BY THE DISTRICT AND THE ENSUING REPUTATION AROUND THE AREA THAT MIDDLETOWN SCHOOLS ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLE, DEALING WITH AN OVERABUNDANCE OF SECTION 8 AND THE ILLS THAT GO WITH THAT AND THE BEHAVIOR/LACK OF CONTROL IN THE SCHOOLS, WILL ELIMINATE ANY GOOD FEELING FAMILIES CONSIDERING MOVING HERE WOULD HAVE. I just don't see, at this point in time, that the district has anything to offer potential residents who may be shopping around to move. People have moved OUT of the district to get away from the current situation and it has been reported that the enrollment has declined. What does that tell you?

PAC:
"It is unfortunate that so many people place little to no respect in the education of the city's children".

Ahh, Pac, a little twist here..... it is unfortunate that the school district educators place little to no respect in the education of the city's children. (If they did, they would make a wholesale change in the way they are doing things in this district because it is obvious that what they have done and are doing, isn't producing the results of the surrounding districts) It is asinine to keep doing the same failed things over and over again knowing what the outcome will be from previous attempts. JMO

I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 10:57am
I care deeply with kid education.What I dont care about is reckless spending.Gave them a chance back in the "PRICELESS" era.Also why should taxpayers pay fo the revamping of the sports stuff?Alot of people have kids that dont play in sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 1:39pm
Vet,
I actually agree with most of your points but come to the opposite conclusion regarding the new schools. 
1. I agree that facilities, by themselves, won't impact academic performance especially on the elementary school level.  However on the high school level facilities can help...think modern science and computer labs but if the basic academic strategies are not in place, then nice facilities won't help.
2. I agree that Middletown's low academic rating are a deterrent to people moving to Middletown.
3. I agree that the poverty level in Middletown, partly encouraged by too many section 8 vouchers, also are a deterrent to people moving to Middletown.
4. I agree that the behavior of some of Middletown's students are not where it needs to be and does detract from others receiving good education.
 
However, I see big improvements in how the district is working on discipline and behavior.  The Positive Behavior Support program and the Middie Pride Program are helping make significant improvements.  The lax, no discipline make excuses Price days are long over.
 
Academically the district has improved the last three years.  Are we up to Lakota or West Chester performance?  We are no where close and probably won't get there....(different demographics).  However, we are up to the midpoint of comparable schools and are poised to be at the top of the list of comparable schools in a few years.
 
Another deterrent to people moving to Middletown, and to those already here staying in the district, is the location and the condition of our Middle School.  We can fix the condition but without building a new school, can not change the location.  This is a deterrent that we can eliminate.  I've had numbers of realtors tell me that the condition and location of the Middle School is a big problem convincing people to move to Middletown.  I know people who kept their kids in Middletown's elemetary schools, but then moved then out of the district instead of sending them to our Middle School.  Our enrollment data support that we lose students between elementary and middle school.
 
Once you decide to do a Middle School then the High School naturally follows because the State will pay for nearly all of it.
 
I don't understand the logic of tying the building of the Middle School to academic performance.  I think that both the refurbishment of our schools and our academic improvement must move hand in hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Barille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 2:00pm
What ever happened to waiting for the state $$ to become available?  Does this levy mean we are trying to fund the construction ourselves 100%?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 2:12pm
Neil,
We decided that since the Middle School needed to be locally funded anyway, that there was no reason to wait for the State.  We will wait for the state money to do the High School.  We will not do it with our own money.  Doing the Middle School now, which needed to be locally funded anyway, just gets us that much closer to havng everything done sooner.  It also means that when "our number is called" Middletown will have done everything necessary to get the state money and we can move that much quicker.  We are not and will not forfeit any state money.  We will use as much as they give us and will argue for more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 3:51pm
Response for Mr. Fiora.....

Mr. Fiora:

"However, I see big improvements in how the district is working on discipline and behavior. The Positive Behavior Support program and the Middie Pride Program are helping make significant improvements. The lax, no discipline make excuses Price days are long over"

TIME WILL TELL IF YOUR NEW PROGRAMS ARE WORKING. EACH TIME WE READ WHERE A FIGHT HAS OCCURED IN THE SCHOOLS, EACH TIME WE READ WHERE THERE WAS VANDALISM IN THE PARKING LOTS, EACH TIME WE READ WHERE THERE WAS A DISRUPTION IN THE CLASSROOM AND THE PROBLEM STUDENT WAS RETURNED TO CLASS INSTEAD OF REMOVED, CREATES SETBACKS TO PROGRESS IN THE OLD GAME OF CONTROLLING DISCIPLINE. WE SHALL SEE MR. FIORA.

MR. Fiora:

"Academically the district has improved the last three years. Are we up to Lakota or West Chester performance? We are no where close and probably won't get there....(different demographics). However, we are up to the midpoint of comparable schools and are poised to be at the top of the list of comparable schools in a few years"

THE PROBLEM IS, OVER THE PAST THREE DECADES, WE HAVE HEARD FROM SCHOOL OFFICIALS IN ONE CAPACITY OR ANOTHER THAT WE "ARE ALMOST THERE". YET, OVER THE DECADES, WE HAVE SEEN THE RESULTS OF THE PERFORMANCE TESTING IN ALL GRADES IN ALL CATEGORIES AND HAVE NOT SEEN SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT......AGAIN IN THREE DECADES. THE SCHOOLS STARTED TO GO DOWNHILL IN THE 70's. BEFORE THAT TIME, THEY WERE THOUGHT OF HIGHLY BY NEIGHBORING DISTRICTS. HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU WANT TO GIVE IT? ANOTHER DECADE OR SO? TOO MUCH TIME HAS PASSED TO SHOW SO LITTLE IMPROVEMENT MR. FIORA IMO.

Mr. Fiora:

"Another deterrent to people moving to Middletown, and to those already here staying in the district, is the location and the condition of our Middle School. We can fix the condition but without building a new school, can not change the location. This is a deterrent that we can eliminate. I've had numbers of realtors tell me that the condition and location of the Middle School is a big problem convincing people to move to Middletown. I know people who kept their kids in Middletown's elemetary schools, but then moved then out of the district instead of sending them to our Middle School. Our enrollment data support that we lose students between elementary and middle school".

OK, SO IS IT THE LOCATION/CONDITION OF THE MIDDLE SCHOOL THAT IS DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY ACCORDING TO THE REALTORS.......OR........IS IT THAT THE PEOPLE LEAVING SEE WHAT IS ON THE HORIZON AFTER THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL EXPERIENCE AND KNOW THAT THE CLIMATE AND EXPERIENCE IN THE MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL LEVELS ARE NOT WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT FOR THEIR KIDS? PERHAPS A DETERRENT FOR THEM IS THE DISCIPLINE OR LACK OF IT IN THE MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOLS AND THE PARENTS WOULD RATHER AVOID THAT FOR THEIR KIDS. OR, PERHAPS THE PARENTS THINK THAT THEY CAN SET THEIR KIDS UP WITH A BETTER QUALITY EDUCATION IN SOME OTHER TOWN AT THEIR MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL. PERHAPS MIDDLETOWN IS KNOWN FOR POOR QUALITY AT THAT LEVEL. MIGHT BE ONE OR THE OTHER ......OR MAYBE A LITTLE OF BOTH.

Mr. Fiora:

"I don't understand the logic of tying the building of the Middle School to academic performance. I think that both the refurbishment of our schools and our academic improvement must move hand in hand"

IT IS CALLED PERFORM AND BE REWARDED. IF THE PERFORMANCE IS UPGRADED TO EXCELLENT FROM THE STAGNANT CONTINUED IMPROVEMENT CATEGORY, THE PEOPLE MAY BE INCLINED TO REWARD YOU FOLKS WITH YOUR WISHES WITH THAT NEW SCHOOL. IF YOU DON'T PERFORM, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO REWARD YOU? YOU HAVEN'T EARNED IT, HAVE YOU? REFURBISHMENT OF SCHOOLS AND ACADEMIC IMPROVEMENT DO NOT NECESSARILY GO HAND IN HAND. WE GAVE YOU ALL NEW ELEMENTARIES AND THE IMPROVEMENT WAS NOT AN EYE-OPENER. YOU HAVE ALREADY DISPROVEN THE VERY POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE.


I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Chris Fiora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 4:36pm
Vet,
Regarding your last point "WE GAVE YOU ALL NEW ELEMENTARIES AND THE IMPROVEMENT WAS NOT AN EYE-OPENER. YOU HAVE ALREADY DISPROVEN THE VERY POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE"
 
If you re-read my post I agree with you that, especially for elementary schools, the facility and academic performance are not necessarily linked.  I never argued, because I don't believe it, that academic performance will neccesarily increase with new buildings.  Except for some specialized areas, such as science on the high school level, I'm not a believer that new facilities will increase performance.  In many ways they are independant.
 
What I tried to say is that I think that we need to improve both the academic performance and the facilities simultaneously.  To help attract people to Middletown we need both; excellent academics and excellent facilities.  Both are works in progress.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 6:20pm
Mr. Fiora: "I never argued, because I don't believe it, that academic performance will neccesarily increase with new buildings".

Mr. Fiora: "Except for some specialized areas, such as science on the high school level, I'm not a believer that new facilities will increase performance".

Then why support this effort?

Mr. Fiora, the two statements made by you above clearly state that new buildings are not an automatic catalyst for better performance.

Then you state.......

"What I tried to say is that I think that we need to improve both the academic performance and the facilities simultaneously"

Question. Why do we need to improve the facilities if you stated that they are not necessarily needed to improve performance? Your first two statements indicate that you are not necessarily a supporter of new facilities. The last statement supports new facilities. Which is it? Why will you support the building of new schools if you take the stance that new schools won't necessarily build stronger results?

"To help attract people to Middletown we need both; excellent academics and excellent facilities".

Is that the most important reason to build new schools? To present an image to attract new people to town? I would have thought the reason the pro-new building people support new schools would be to improve performance.

I will be voting no because I don't want my taxes raised. They are already high and the payback received is low. We're not getting that much of a return on investment in this town for the money we pay out. And, quite frankly, the Middletown schools don't deserve, nor have they earned the blessing of the taxpayer by approving new schools. Again, I don't believe the schools should be rewarded until they show signs of dramatic improvement. If I were connected with the schools, I would be disappointed for the lack of accomplishment in the last 30 years. I am an outsider looking in. Perhaps the school people can't see the perverbial forest for the trees with regard to their inefficiencies.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Jameshh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jameshh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 8:42pm
VeitVet:

Please answer a couple of questions that I believe several of us what like to know and be honest please!
1. Do you live in Middletown?
2. If 1 is yes then how long?
3. If 1 is no then do you work in Middletown or are you retired from a business in Middletown?
4. Do you or have you ever had a student in Middletown Schools?

With the post and negativity towards our school system I am really curious what is your stake in this game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2013 at 9:54pm

I don't know the numbers but I assume an argument can be made that the maintenance and heating/air cost of the existing buildings is too high.  I hear Vail is a train wreck.  And I don't think the case for new construction is academic performance.  Vet, you're taking one comment Dr. Price made years ago and rehashing it over and over.  There are valid reasons to building new --- just like you had valid reasons for voting "yes" on the Senior Center levy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2013 at 6:15am
Originally posted by Jameshh Jameshh wrote:

VeitVet:

Please answer a couple of questions that I believe several of us what like to know and be honest please!
1. Do you live in Middletown?
2. If 1 is yes then how long?
3. If 1 is no then do you work in Middletown or are you retired from a business in Middletown?
4. Do you or have you ever had a student in Middletown Schools?

With the post and negativity towards our school system I am really curious what is your stake in this game.


Answers:

1. Yes
2. 64 years with the exception of 4 years in the military, 7 years in Columbus, 5 years in Newark and 8 months in Tucson.
3. Work in another town. Not retired. Have 5 more years to work to have 51 years in.
4. Yes

My stake in the game?.....

My stake in this game is that, like everyone else who lives in Middletown, I pay property taxes. 80% of those property taxes go to the schools. If I pay into it and contribute, I earn the right to criticize. So does everyone else if they choose. The schools have performed poorly for the last 3 decades. I am getting sick and tired of helping to fund a poor performer. If I have a poor performer in my stock portfolio, I ask the portfolio manager to sell and invest in a better performer. Don't have the luxury of opting out of putting money into this loser. Unfortunately, if I want to live in my hometown, I must pay for this school system, no matter how bad it has become. Lord people, look at the test scores. Look at how long they have been at the bottom. Look at the discipline problems in the schools. Look at how many things they have tried and have failed on. Now ask yourself a question.....what have they done to EFFECTIVELY address the problems? They have beaten the board to pieces, but they haven't hit the nail once. Now, without lying to yourself, answer the question with the words "little to nothing". Why won't the school supporters admit the way it really is and actually demand that it be fixed? We just keep trudging along, year after year, accepting the same outcome without demanding more. Why?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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