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MAY BOND & LEVY

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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 31 2013 at 12:21pm
To make things perfectly clear, it should be pointed out that there are TWO levies in play here. 
The 3.95 mill levy will last 37 years.
 
The 0.26 mill levy, which will cost the owner of a $150,000 home about $12.25 (or one pizza) per year, is a PERMANENT levy.
 
If BOTH levies do not pass, we would not receive the $40 million (or so) in state matching funds.
 
The present high school building is forty years old so, if the past is prologue, about the time that the 37 year construction levy is retired it will be time to remodel/modernize/replace the proposed new middle school and updated high school again.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bumper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 7:06am
well if changing the image of the schools only takes 55mill than what will it cost to change the image of the city? the city big wigs have put the screws to the schools and to the taxpayer and to the citys infrastructure, doin the buddy plan, hide and seek, shell game, ain't got no money for how long now? this hurt IMO they put on the schools will have a lasting affect for many more years, this image of the city that most outsiders now see it, is what it is, crime is a major reason you won't see many moving to, 10 year olds robbing UDF, 38 years old man with holes in both arms running from cops jumping in KFC's dumpsterDead 3 meth houses in a month, must be a big demand in middletown for this brain killer!! alot of girls and guys are getting busted with the holes in their arms, so that explains all the crime going on in middletown, this HUD problem that the city has caused, when they sent that letter, they ain't playing with MR. A... .not saying all that needs hud are bad people because they are not.. now to the roads, sidewalks, sewers, water lines that the city has failed to maintain for how long now? can't blame the taxpayer for saying NO enough is enough..and for those that moved out.. i had a good LOL couple weeks ago, the city of middletown tax dept sent my 82 be 83 in julySmile year old mother, that has been gone from middletown for a little over 4 years now, saying she owes for back income taxes for the last 4 years,LOL what a waste of paper, sorry middletown tax dept, your Scratch- N- sniffin will get ya nothing..LOL  for those that wanna know my mother was born in middletown in 1930, i was born in middletown in 1955 my dad spent 44 years at armco/ AK.  im now a retired Heavy Equipment Operator, so if middletown ever thinks about making the downtown into a lake, give me a call...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 12:33pm
Spider,
The old hospital site and the Roosevelt/Sunset park areas were strongly considered since the locations are more central to the city.  Unfortuntely, neither site met the State's requirements for size...both were too small.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote enough is enough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 2:30pm
Just curious, with all classes being moved out of the Manchester Tech building to the High School, is this building also on the chopping block to be demolished?  If so what is going to be built on that site?
Enough is Enough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 2:45pm
Enough,
The Manchester building is on the chopping block to be demolished.  No building is currently planned for that site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Chris Fiora Chris Fiora wrote:



Enough,
The Manchester building is on the chopping block to be demolished.  No building is currently planned for that site.


Mr. Fiora:

Your comment goes against the theme that you and Ms.Andrew have been presenting in these discussions as to reasons for levy money. To date, as a reason for your newest levy request, you and Ms. Andrew have said that some buildings were old and have to come down. Old Middletown High (Vail-Middletown Middle School), Roosevelt Jr. High, Sherman, Wilson, Taft, the old admin. building on Girard, Wade E. Miller Gym, etc. all going or gone now. Manchester Jr. High is a newer school in the district and was built in the 70's when Manchester Rd. was just two lanes I believe. It is as new as the current high school built in 1970. If you want to keep Middletown High and renevate it, why tear down Manchester? If you folks ever get this school district on the right track again, and you start seeing an increase in enrollmant, you may have wished you had kept it, being in such close proximity to the high school. Could be the answer to potential overflow and additional classroom space in the future if needed. What will happen with the Lifeskills/alternative to regular high school program if the Manchester complex is torn down?

Or, is the plan to level Manchester (and the current high school later) to create more land for a larger high school at the same site with yet another levy in the future?

To tell us that the older buildings must go, then turn around and tell us a building built in the 70's (and not that old by any standard) must go too, lacks credibility in your facilities planning. If Manchester is to be torn down, what is the fate of Verity down on S. Briele? It is relatively new by school building standards, isn't it? When will it stop Mr. Fiora? What will finally stop the school board's thirst for demolition and the building of new?.......and, more importantly....when will we start seeing significant results that will open our eyes with regard to your new buildings and what you have done to date?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 6:17pm
Vet--Manchester is probably 10 years older than the hs at least
 
thanx 4 the info, Mr.F
I pretty much assumed Roosevelt and old hospital sites to be too small
just how large does this freshman site have to be?
are the sports venues to be there also?
if so, why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 7:15pm
Vet,

I believe the plan was to build a new HS on the Verity site and remodel the current HS to be the Middle school. If I remember correctly, the state requires 80-90 acres for a new HS to be built. Middletown does not have such a site that I am aware of Once the new middle school is built. I would guess that HS becomes to old to be of any use Middletown will be back in the same quandary as they are now unless they Annex another large piece of land.

Bob Cust
(aka Pacman)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 9:23pm
Manchester opened in 1961.  The fate of Verity has always been to be demolished, originally as the high school site, and now as the site of a new middle school (7th and 8th grades).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 01 2013 at 9:59pm
so--why wouldn't we build a new high school on the Verity site, and use the existing hs as a middle school?
When Manchester is demoed, what will go there?
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Chris Fiora View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 11:07am
All,
The original master plan was to demolish Verity and build the new high school on the site.  The current high school was to be renovated and turned into the middle school.  This is the plan from about 10 years ago.  When we reconvened the facility committee they decided that it was better to demolish Verity and build a new middle school on the site.  The current High School was to remain the high school and be renovated.  I can't recall all of their logic, but I recall two main points.  The first is that it was much less expensive to build a new middle school and renovate the high school than to build a new high school and renovate and convert the current high school into the middle school.  Additionally it was thought that the location of our current high school was better than the Verity site because it is across the street from MUM.  Also once the committee concluded that football would remain at Barnitz then the additional acreage at Verity was not needed.  The least cost option, that provided the necessary facilities, was taken.  The renovated High School is planned to be a 35 - 40 year solution and there are no plans to eventually build a new one.
 
Vet,
Regarding the Manchester you make a good point that it may be prudent to not tear it down but to keep it in case it was needed later.  The advantage is that if additional space was needed in the future we would not have to build.  The disadvantage is that the Manchester requires some major work just to keep it.  For example, the roof is about shot and needs to be replaced.  We've held off on spending the money, just patched as necessary, until we had the plan developed and we saw what the Manchester's fate would be.  The last thing we needed to do was spend money on a building that was slated to be torn down.  An additional disadvantage is that there would be ongoing maintenance expenses just to keep it as a viable overflow option.  The facility committee, the administration and the board needs to think through this. 
 
There is no thought to eventually tearing down a renovated high school and building new.  That make little sense.  If the committee thought that we needed a new high school they would have recommened it.  What happens 40 years from now is anyone's guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 2:55pm

Mr. Fiora,

As a member of the Facilities committee who attended every meeting, please allow me to expand on your answer to the very best of my recollection.

You are correct that location was an important fact in the decision to keep the high school where it is, very near MUM.  Many Middies take classes at MUM and the proximity facilitates this academic-enhancing facet of the educational process. Given that academics is what this is what this is supposed to be all about, allowing the courses at MUM to be more seamlessly folded into the students’ high school schedules seemed to be an important consideration.

Someone (I cannot recall who, possibly Principal Cotter, Superintendent Rasmussen or one of the consultants) presented a strong case regarding the importance of an auditorium.  An auditorium is an expensive item, and under the rules of the Ohio School Facilities Commission, as part of a new school it would have to be built entirely with local funds and would not be eligible to be part of our matching funds. However, under these rules an existing auditorium would be allowed to be retained as part of an existing school being remodeled.  The current high school has an excellent auditorium, although it does need some refurbishing which must be done with local funds.

One small clarification to your post:  Of the ten (I think it was ten) original options considered, this was the second least expensive option.  During voting to pare the long list down to a short list of three for presentation to the Board, the least expensive option (by a couple of million dollars, as I recall) was eliminated, thereby making this the least expensive option presented to the Board.

Two side notes:

To the best of my memory (which I admit is sometimes faulty), the Manchester building was not to be demolished as part of the option the Facilities Committee recommended.

Also, I cannot recall any mention or discussion ever of a wrestling field house, or of renovating either Barnitz Stadium or the Glenn “Tiger” Ellison Football Complex.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jameshh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 4:13pm
Mr. Presta

I have also been a long term member of the facilities committee and your points are valid.

Re: Manchester building it is in great need of repairs and there is an extension to the HS that will extend out the front toward that structure if I remember correctly. For traffic flow and additional parking it needs to go.

I agree that Tiger Ellison facility was not in the plan as there is be a new competition gym to be added with (I would assume) additional locker rooms thus possibly loss of some parking at that end of building. Again more parking needed where Manchester is setting.

Re: Barnitz, this had always been assumed and stated that it would be renovated with private funding in which some of the funds from private sources have been committed verbally.

Re: Verity site: if the HS was to be relocated there more funds would be needed for all the athletic fields and band practice fields as well as cost for auditorium. There is several partials of land that the school can attempt to sell as well once all construction is complete that includes additional land at the Verity site, current middle school site, old Roosevelt site and current administration site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 8:16pm

James:

Good point!!!  There is an existing gym at the current high school, and the plan (as considered and recommended by the Facilities Committee) included the addition of a second “competition” gym to replace Wade E. Miller gym.

I admit I wasn’t privy to the discussions with the Board of Education, but with TWO gymnasiums, it certainly appears to make the addition of a dedicated wrestling field house an unaffordable luxury in what should be a time of austerity.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 8:20pm
According to the states latest records only 75 student out of 1800 +or- take advantage of pseo program.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 8:25pm
James:
 
Further to your post, as far as the Manchester facility goes, I was not trying to argue pro or con, demo or rehab. I was simply trying to point out what was in the plan that the Facilities Committee passed along. I agree with your points about the need for more parking. On the other hand, to demo the Manchester building and add parking instead of rehabbing it, should have lowered the price significantly.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rshaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 02 2013 at 11:49pm
Mike/others: another check-in by a long-time facilities' committee member. Here is a summary of my recollections: Barnitz has never been considered as eligible for OSFC funding. Manchester---as I have asked this question many times---had never been considered for funding as a remodel, nor even demolition. The auditorium was a key item in deciding to keep MHS on its current site, as were the athletic fields. Last, the master plan includes a 40,000 sq. ft. classroom addition at the remodeled high school; the additional competition gym is not included in this 40,000 sqare footage. As a side note, the roof at Manchester, as Mr. Fiora has mentioned, has outlived its usefulness. Many rooms have active leaks, and the district is contending with these repairs, trying to avoid re-roofing at this time.
Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2013 at 9:35am
All,
Thank you for adding to and for clarifying my recollections.  My understanding of the Wrestling Field house is that it would reduce the cost of the High School renovation and that is the only reason why it is being considered.  Currently wrestling is housed in the High School.  This area can be reconfigured for class room space provided we find another area for wrestling.  It is less expensive to build a wrestling field house that it is to add additional class room space.  This logic makes sense to me, though I don't understand why wrestling can't be housed in one of the gyms thus avoiding the field house and additional class room space.  I'm sure that there is a good reason and it is one of my questions I have that will be asked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2013 at 2:04pm
The Administration Building in Springboro behind the high school was built by the Warren County Career Center Students. Middletown could do the same thing and get the local career center students to help build the the Wrestling Field House, or even help with the construction of the new school. It could cut down on costs, and give the students some real on the job experience. Since Middletown is in Warren and Butler Counties, maybe we can get both Career Centers to help out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 04 2013 at 6:51pm
According to the states latest records Middletown has only 75 student out of 1800 +or- taking advantage of the pseo program. Is this information correct?

If this is true, it seems to be a minor reason for leaving the HS at it's current location.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsmith2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 06 2013 at 2:51pm
Don't you think one of the reasons the school board is pushing this levy through is because of the Common Curriculum changes that are taking place? We already know the school district under achieves and the board knows the taxpayers feel the schools should do better. The school district is going to do a lot worse in the ratings...the material is going to be harder, the tests will be harder, the students will be expected to actually write a paragraph instead of multiple choice. They need to get this levy through and passed before all of that information comes out because Middletown City Schools ratings are going to go down....way down not up.
They are making changes, adding what they can (wrestling etc.) because there will be no chance in hell anyone will ever vote for a school levy after the new ratings are available.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 06 2013 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by jsmith2011 jsmith2011 wrote:

Don't you think one of the reasons the school board is pushing this levy through is because of the Common Curriculum changes that are taking place? We already know the school district under achieves and the board knows the taxpayers feel the schools should do better. The school district is going to do a lot worse in the ratings...the material is going to be harder, the tests will be harder, the students will be expected to actually write a paragraph instead of multiple choice. They need to get this levy through and passed before all of that information comes out because Middletown City Schools ratings are going to go down....way down not up.
They are making changes, adding what they can (wrestling etc.) because there will be no chance in hell anyone will ever vote for a school levy after the new ratings are available.


Then, if no chance in the future of attaining "SATISFACTORY" from years of "CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT", then, hopefully, no chance of a levy passing. What is the purpose of spending the money on improving the performance if the district is going to be mired for another decade in the continuous improvement mud pit? It has already been proven, with money spent from the last levies approved, that this district can't pull itself up to satisfactory. Levy approvals aren't the answer to correcting this district's inefficiencies. Why give them more money to remain the same? Let the state take over and make the necessary changes.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 06 2013 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

What is the purpose of spending the money on improving the performance if the district is going to be mired for another decade in the continuous improvement mud pit?.


Vet,

You have this supposed Steve price mantra stuck in your head. We are not paying for performance. We are building new schools and updating old ones, to maintain a level playing field and bring our city into the 21st century.

Pacman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2013 at 6:11am
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

What is the purpose of spending the money on improving the performance if the district is going to be mired for another decade in the continuous improvement mud pit?.


Vet,

You have this supposed Steve price mantra stuck in your head. We are not paying for performance. We are building new schools and updating old ones, to maintain a level playing field and bring our city into the 21st century.

Pacman


WHAT???? WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR PERFORMANCE??? YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT? HOW ELSE ARE WE GOING TO JUDGE WHETHER OUR CURRENT SCHOOL DISTRICT IS WORTH THE MONEY OR NOT? GOTTA BE PERFORMANCE BASED. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU GIVE THIS DISTRICT MORE MONEY TO WASTE IF THEY ARE SHOWING NO EYE-OPENING RESULTS WITH THE MONEY ALREADY GIVEN TO THEM, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING ALL THE TIME THAT HAS PASSED TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER. THEY HAVE HAD MORE THAN AMPLE TIME TO IMPROVE. OTHER DISTRICTS HAVE THAT ARE SIMILAR IN NATURE.

PAC, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU WOULD BE THE FIRST TO TELL YOUR STOCKBROKER TO SELL A POOR PERFORMING STOCK IN YOUR PORTFOLIO, WOULDN'T YOU? ANYONE WOULD IF THEY KEPT PLOWING MONEY INTO A LOSER OF A STOCK AND TAKING A FINANCIAL HIT MONTH AFTER MONTH. SAME GOES FOR THE SCHOOLS. IF THEY DON'T PERFORM, THEY GET NO REWARD. THIS GOES BEYOND WHAT PRICE SAID WHEN HE TRIED TO SELL US THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL BOND LEVY. THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE.

YOU HAVE A HIGH DEF TV AT HOME, RIGHT? IF IT DIDN'T LAST AND GAVE YOU POOR PERFORMANCE, WOULD YOU BUY ANOTHER OF THE SAME BRAND? OF COURSE NOT. WHY WOULD YOU KEEP TRYING TO HELP A COMPANY THAT PUT OUT A CRAPPY PRODUCT? SAME GOES FOR THE SCHOOLS. CRAPPY PRODUCT= NO SUPPORT.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2013 at 9:31am
Here is what Middletown is expected to get with the new state budget:
                                                           2013                              2014                     Change        2015                         Change      
Middletown City SD$26,103,386.00$32,329,392.0023.9%$37,013,110.0014.5%


Here is the link to look up other school Districts:

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