What a mess!!!
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Printed Date: May 19 2024 at 3:18am
Topic: What a mess!!!
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Subject: What a mess!!!
Date Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 5:57am
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What a mess!!! Butler/Warren Counties lead Ohio in population growth, but Middletown population shrinks to its lowest levels in forty years, and Butler County foreclosures Jump 70% from January (and 32%+ from last year)!!! Yet all we keep hearing is how wonderful and great things are in Middletown, and about our brighter future. All the positivism in the world will get us nowhere, unless we first:
Once we stop trying to fool ourselves (and everyone else) and begin to do this, we will have an actual reason to feel positive, and things actually will begin to improve!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 6:42am
| None of what you listed will happen UNLESS we get rid of all who have brought us to this cluster Mike. Gotta gut the cause of the problems (current mindset of city government) before we can enact the five bullets you have listed. The cancer must be removed before the healing can begin. JMO |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 7:04am
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Today's Journal...
Census: Middletown loses 2,000 in 10 years “We anticipated a slight population decrease given the history of Middletown and the state of the economy,” she (Gilleland) said, noting the city’s population in 1970 was 48,767". "But Gilleland said the city is going through a rebirth this decade, purposefully “rightsizing” its communities by getting rid of housing stock and anticipating the completion of the Greentree Health Science Academy and the potential location of a Cincinnati State Technical & Community College branch campus downtown". Nice spin Gilleland. A "rebirth"...."rightsizing"- What??? The population loss couldn't be the fact that you and others before you have made the decision not to concentrate on providing jobs for the people in this town, providing any semblence of a quality of life and they have left to seek employment, escape the ghetto mentality theme you are creating and are just plain tired of you people making this a ghost town. And, at the same time, no one wants to locate to this town for the same reasons. No Gilleland- look in the mirror. You have met the culprit and it is you and that circus you call a city staff. |
Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 1:57pm
| No “rightsizing” of the Section 8 portion of the population, though. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 2:10pm
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Vet, every city council member and city leader would say they are addressing the problem, its all in The Master Plan! Then, they'd point to the magnificent projects at Cincinnati State, The Manchester, PAC, and the Atrium. Don't you get it, "they have a plan", its the "Master Plan" (LOL). The economy is too far in shambles, infrastructure let rot for too many decades. Are $330Kk- $500 Kk still being bought? Sure they are, just not out at the Renaissance. Wasn't that the next big saving project? You have 1/6 of housing stock build to date, now the rest will compete with Sawyer's Mill, and the $100,000 homes inside 75 that 10 years ago, were appraised at $210,000. The other areas began by tax incentives. Middletown is just far back to be competitive. I predict at the end of the day, Cincinnati State will have a small satellite office downtown. We have 20 years before the gloabl mess begins to even begin to turn around and it won't be anything like we have had in the past. No job recovery, decreasing income, and a > chasm between super rich, and those able to make a cell phone payment each month. So what is the solution? There is none. Except avoid waste, tighten belt. Fix potholes. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 11 2011 at 7:52pm
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acclaro, no solution? How about that "can do" spirit that gets things done? I can actually see what city council is trying to do, my problem is the current track record of city council on economic development projects!!! At this point, this city council is "all in" on the Cincinnati State plan. If that falls through, it's time for all 7 members to resign and a special election held to fill the seats. That council can then devise a new plan . Avoid waste? How about making our "stock" of housing more energy efficient, repair of the roadways of this city and finding businesses willing to locate here. Having an arts district is fine, but without people with money to spend artists will starve.
The real point is there are solutions to our problems. The first thing we need to do is have enough courage and confidence to participate in our future. If the future here is not what you want, change it. That's what our democracy is supposed to be about.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 11 2011 at 9:34pm
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TonyB says "The real point is there are solutions to our problems. The first thing we need to do is have enough courage and confidence to participate in our future. If the future here is not what you want, change it".
TonyB- The city doesn't want you (us) to participate in the town's future. There are several on this site who have, over the years, tried to approach council with the intent to make suggestions, indicating to council that we were trying to participate in the future of this town. We have been on committees, spoken at council meetings, written Letters To The Editor, made E-Mail contacts, gone to forums giving our opinions, etc. We have been ignored time and time again and, with council making it perfectly clear that they do not wish the average citizen to participate in the direction of this town (with the exception of a small chosen number), we are out of options on our approach to the kingdom who runs the place. Exactly how is one suppose to approach a group of city officials who don't want citizen input as to their ideas to improve/change this town? If they won't listen, the effort is a waste of time isn't it? Your idea of the 7 council people resigning and being replaced by receptive replacements is a start. However, the job still isn't complete without the new council firing the city manager on down with receptive replacements in that area. THEN, we might start a two way dialog with our city government. JMO |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 12:50am
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Tony B- I respectfully agree to disagree with your "all in" a pproach to finding solutions. I will echo the point made above countless citizens have made attempts to resolve many of Middletown's problems, but the council and city leadership don't want the help. I personally know several of the brightest minds in the country that live in Middletown that are top execs in high tech, biotech, healthcare, cpg, other sectors, that the city council have ignored or passed over many times. Simply put, they don't want the help, and I can adamantly say, these are TOP FLIGHT PEOPLE renoewn nationally. City hall just doesn't get it. So the "all hands on deck" premise just doesn't fly in Middletown.
Fixng the roads? Easy solution----put back the infrastructure funds takne out since 1986. Been saying that for about 6 years, but no one on council has made that effort at all. Next, fix all the roads? Great idea? Now Tony B, who writes the check for $100 Mm? Solution going to be to pass a 2.25% tax increase? That ain't gonna happen, and shouldn't. So, do you have the rich uncle that writes the check? The citizens don't, and by the city taking infrastructure funds over 20 plus years, you have alot of asphalt to pave, I recall the city figured it was going to take 50 years. So, we have $100 Mm to pay for roads that have been neglected and the solution will take us 50 years. Next!
Lets turn to green housing. Great idea. Lets all go out and buy $50,000 in grid stuff, solar panels, wind turbines, etc. Now, my house I paid $200 Kk for in 1989 is now worth $135Kk some 20 years later, but I am going to spend $50 Kk to make $3,000, after losing $65 Kk in a house that with inflation, should be worth $340 Kk? No, don't have the cash, the credits mean nothing referring to tax credits, and I would not get 10% back on my investment.
Now if you are saying the city provides all this (LOL), I'm all for it. Finally to Cincinnati State. So council is all in on State. Big deal, how many jobs does teaching chefs how to cook provide, when they won't be working in Middletown? How much tax is produced in income tax by maybe 30 employees from State? Not much. At gas now about $3.65/ gal and rising, more people are inclined to move to Middletown to commute or not? Right you are, can't afford to pay $600.00 month, to go back and forth to Cincinnati.
There have been countless solutions provided, and i think you are offering observations, but don't see where the money comes from to fix roads, put up wind turbines and solar, attract business with tax incentives when the news talks more about Middletown for bullying and burning hair than innovation and a strong work force, and where 500 vacant lots sit now for homes for those in the price range of $350,000 and above?
So Tony B, I ask you, what is your solution again? And who is paying for it.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 7:01am
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Sure!!! And I can just imagine if our city officials were in charge in Japan right now:
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 7:11am
Cox News headlines???
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 8:00am
| OK all, I get that you're frustrated with this council, this city manager and the situation in our town. Do you really believe there are no solutions? If so, what's the point of taking the time to even discuss this on this blog? Are you telling me that the only viable solution is to leave this town to its own devices? Maybe you're saying I should just move out of town and not bother. If that's the case, then the people you have identified as causing these problems have won. If this is the town that they want, and nothing can be done about it, why bother? I just don't see that as the answer. If this council won't listen, replace them. Is it that difficult to organize an effective message in this town? Please let me know because if that is the case, I will seriously consider moving out of town. I have no wish to live in a town governed without the consent of the governed!!! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 8:17am
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Welcome to our world, TonyB--beautiful post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OCCBXGXc&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OCCBXGXc&feature=related
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 8:34am
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Tony B- "If this council won't listen, replace them. Is it that difficult to organize an effective message in this town?"
Yes, it is that difficult to organize an effective message in this town. Nick Kidd tried to do it several years ago at the old Mont. Ward store on University. Interest went a meeting or two and fizzled. Had a small group meet on a Sunday afternoon at the library. Even had Mr. Marconi and Ms. Scott-Jones there one time. Discussed subjects ranging from the city finances to the road/pothole issues. Didn't take it any further. Had maybe 25 people at the first meeting. Then averaged about 6 to 8 people after that. Just can't get all these dissatisfied people off the couch to attend any attempt to organize. If you have any suggestions on how to combat apathy, let us know. We have talked about distributing petitions for recall on this forum. Even among the most "disgruntled" on this forum, we had apathy. The idea didn't get past making the trip to Hamilton's Board of Elections to pick up the petitions. Everybody is mad.......just not enough to do anything about it. Always has been the problem......and city hall is delighted. JMO |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 8:37am
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NPR (Nippon Public Radio) reporter: Please tell us, Ms. Gilleland-San, what is your estimation of recent events in northeastern prefectures???
City Manager Gilleland: Well, I am encouraged at the way so many coastal communities were effeciently "right-sized". It will allow us to more economically serve those areas and thereby provide more public funds downtown, where the cash is desperately needed to make our buildings there look older, or decorate with scrapped Toyota hoods.
NPR reporter: Ah so, Ms. Gilleland-San! Cox News Service reports that many scrapped Toyota hoods will soon be flooding market. Should mean good price for city!
City Manager Gilleland: YES! The Future does look BRIGHTER! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 12 2011 at 9:34am
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Vet, I think the meeting you refer had more to do with an ineffective message and rationale than dis-interest. I like many of Nick Kidd's ideas and observations, but I think this time around people are utterly disgusted with Middletown's direction. About 85%.
TonyB, not sure what your point to be. I just provided solutions you'll hear from city council. Try this again.
1) We need to raise taxes 2.25% to pay for roads that will be done in 50 years.
2) We won't rescind the allocation for taking dedicated infrastructure to pay for roads and sewers since 1986 because we want to spend it on the salary's of the city.
3) When we bring in Cincinnati State after bailing out the Thatcher estate, hmmm, when we have Cincinnati State in Middletown, we have excellent educational opportunities for future employers and their employees as well as our residents including those on Section 8 we have recruited to compenate for the drop in Middletown population.
4) I agree I'd love and would others, to put in the money to have a "green" home saving my Duke bill averaging> $500.00 monthly, but who pays for it, me or the city? I explained the problem there, too many houses are at 1/2 value where they were 20 years ago.
Tony B- Final comment- its not just this council, Middletown's malaise with council goes back to the early 1980's.
Suggestion if I may: Get out while you can. Excellent people who care about the city and citizens to replace the current band of brothers and sisters, but tied up tending to other needs and responsibilities. CEO's like to give their $$$ to elect a Miami lawyer than a commonsense and honest preacher or mechanic.
So there you have it, the solutions from the city, the problems, and why it won't change until Middletown is so far down, the ones that destroyed it for 35 years are in their 80-90 range, and senile (and can't do any more harm).
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Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 6:27am
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For me it comes down to leadership, our charter is setup for a city manager to handle the day to day business. I have worked with several of the cities staff over the the years on different projects and yes I shake my head at times as I watch a simple task turn into a long affair of "what do we do now". But over all the people I have gotten to know do care about "doing it right". The morale of our senior staff and union employees IMO is at an all time low. I realize that I'll get some feed back about how they get paid the "big bucks" and should suck it up. For any of us who have worked for someone else or have your on employees there is nothing worse than having an employer who doesn't trust you. Someone who does not follow or allows a employee to follow his or hers job description. We've all had to multi-task and change our game plan for the day, but when you have $100,000 employees being micro-managed by someone who doesn't trust you thats a problem IMO. If they can't do the job get them on a disciplinary program or remove them. I have seen a change in business when it comes to allowing poor preformers to keep their jobs because of our joke of a work force. I have spoken about removing our city manager and the response I get is "then what do we do". IMO could it be any worse,maybe but I know for a fact that several of our past councilman regret this hire. I posted the other day,after a very long day which I did not mean to imply that know one on this site has not participated in our city. Mr. Presta and SJ along with Randy I have seen quite often at city functions. I feel we could do better with a new leader and the sooner the better. Thats what I meant by staying focused on one topic. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 11:17am
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rem1187, thanks for your post; I guess my question is why do the members of council still support the current city manager? If morale is this poor; that speaks to leadership. Leadership in the public field is about inspiring employees to follow that job description and knowing that the job you're doing is important and valued. Without trust from the top, a public employee's job becomes an endless request for direction.
I'd venture to say that this Cincinnati State decision will be the turning point for the city manager. If this falls through, not only should she offer her resignation, so should council.
acclaro -interesting choices you offer. Are those the only ones available? Let me start with the easy one first. 4. If the property belongs to you, you pay for the upgrades. Common sense there. The resale value of the property only comes into play when you sell, the energy and money savings pay for themselves if you plan to stay long term. Obviously, trying to sell now would not be beneficial to someone who planned to sell immediately. The real point here is that this is something that every house in America needs. You can't hope to save money if you waste energy on the scale that this country does. Those are the days that are gone forever. As for point 1., I don't see raising taxes as the only solution for infrastructure improvement. Neglecting our roads has been disasterous for the reputation of this city. That should be the number one priority of the council. If they don't have a plan, they need to come up with one now. The obvious fix is to do exactly what your point 2. suggests. Dedicated funds for infrastructure improvement should be done for every budget cycle and not used to pay for staff. This city manager should be tasked with justifying all non-union city positions. If staff cuts need to be made, to borrow a phrase "so be it".
Now to your point 3.: I'm still not convinced that this project is going to fly. If it does, then everything you wrote might well fall into place. Even if it does happen, the success of this venture is still dicey. As I've written before, the track record of city council in economic development has not been good. Until we get a committment from Cincy State, everything is up in the air.
There are always solutions, some pleasant, some not so much. I'll say it again, if we don't have leadership that will tackle the tough problems, let's get rid of them and find someone who will!
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Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 1:28pm
" "Steam" from the nuclear power plant to dry streets and building rapidly. All part of the Master plan."
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Mike_Presta wrote:Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 1:29pm
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TonyB:
Good question why our current council continues to keep her on board. Let's review how she operates; She does allow council into decision making for the city. NOT THEIR JOB! Also, she hires outside counsultants to make decisions for her. Let's she, she makes $135.000 per year for other people to make her decisions. That is a very good way from having "bad" decisions blamed on her. I hear that a paid consultant is now in charge of the Cincinnati State project. As rem1187 has said; she has accomplished lowering the morale in the city building to an all-time low. Her "personal" hire, Mike Robinette turned out to live up to his reputation that he had before coming here. That didn't work. How long will council allow the city to go backwards before making a change? Any sports team that goes bad, they fire the coach, not the players. I believe that the majority of city staff is dedicated to their jobs and are trying to hold on until she leaves.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 6:07pm
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jag123....
"I believe that the majority of city staff is dedicated to their jobs and are trying to hold on until she leaves". For the most part, I agree, jag. I do believe there are exceptions though. I think Kohler and Landen have done enough damage on their own and need to leave with Gilleland. Kohler on his pathetic failed schemes as a city planner (must be something to this as I had heard he was fired in Lebanon) and Landen, who seems to develop his own interpretation of the laws rather than to acknowledge the actual laws, depending on the situation. The rest of the city staff....perhaps you are correct. |
Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 8:50pm
| Along time ago in a galaxy far,far away we had a city manager who came up from the ranks of being a cop for the city of Middletown. Mr. Becker got kind of missed placed during the circus show better known as city council. Does city council really support this current city manager or have they become overwhelmed to a point that any warm body will do until they have to put the next fire out. The problem IMO does have to do with council knowing their place and not creating more to do in order to close a issue and move on. I bring Mr. Becker up to show how fast we go thru city managers. Trust and accountability is something all of use can "feel" when working around your peers. Ask your councilman if they believe in the city manager and the job they are doing, I have. |
Posted By: jag123
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 9:14pm
Some council take advice from the MMF group. This group including; Slagle, Cohen, Scorti, Sawyer, Martin and others have the ear of the city manager and she follows them like a little pup. From what I have been told, she had a party and her home with the MMF group and others to dicsuss the replacement of Robinette and how to address Cincy State among other items. I understand from former council people, that a major mistake was made when she was hired. I paid my dues in Middletown and have moved to Warren County. However, my family is still in Middletown and I try to keep a close eyes on things.
ps;
Vet: I believe Mr. Kohler is short lived.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 13 2011 at 10:16pm
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jag, I am not certain how to respond to your post other than I believe the majority on this site have stated that is what has killed Middletown for 25 years, the city manager focusing on a handful of people to tell he/she what to do. If she/he makes them happy, then they stick around. The problem began with Husemann as he was nothing but a puppet doing the bidding of the people you reference and few others. His interest was making a transitional buck while he found a position in Virginia, and accomplished little, other than recruiting a clone when she came into town. She was given a copy of all the key players and what they wanted done when she was hired. Before that, Becker was put in place as a means of getting his retirement pension up at a higher level by the "title", and the expectation he could pull the votes for the 2.25% tax. Next, the stop gap is the $75Kk temp that greased the skids for the few that run Middletown, including the names referenced. Point: Ms. G is perfectly fine as long as these handful of people are happy. I suspect Mulligan, Picard, Becker, Allen, are very satisfied, with maybe a negative of one current council member. A friend happened to be doing some family historic research a few months ago and overheard Scorti talking to Martin that he was doing "grant research" for the courts. Now they have in place the system they want to have a few pull the strings. One assumes she'd throw Kohler under the bus if the few that she reports to, got a smack-down from LR. End result- while Middletown melts like a nuclear rod in a power plant in Japan, life is cozy and comfortable for Ms. G and the handful of citizens she works for. This mess started with incompetent council people in the 80's that took their eye off the ball, it accelerated when Becker was put in a city manager, then H, then G, with rules to follow, and if you make these few happy, that's all that matters. It worked for 7 years for the Super, it will work for at least 5-7 for the city manager. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 6:36am
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jag123 writes....."From what I have been told, she had a party and her home with the MMF group and others to dicsuss the replacement of Robinette and how to address Cincy State among other items".
Can't be factual or Mike Presta, the Spider, Mr. Nagy, Randy Sue, Hermes and the whole gang from MUSA would have been invited.   That woman is just crazy about us!
Hope you're right about Kohler. Hopefully, Landen is next to leave. Slagle I can understand. Kind of an a--. Cohen is a disappointment. Graduated with him. Played knothole with him at Smith Park-late 50's. He and Barry seemed like decent people. Must have changed over time. Scorti- got his nose in everything. Seems self-absorbed. Martin and Sawyer- don't know 'em. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 10:50am
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I don't understand why anyone would be encouraged by the track record of the "city leaders" mentioned . Despite being well-intentioned quality people, the end results of their direction have left the community on it's knees in many directions.
The east end hasn't developed as planned, with a full fill of ancillary medical facilities. The housing structure took a big hit from planning commission last week. Now we will have a higher density lower-quality structures where we had planned a newer high end development. Now we will have more competition to the sale of existing homes within the core of our city geographically. Older inner town structures will linger while the new cheapies will bring on the new crop of foreclosees.Marty K had this one right imo.
The former downtown area is a mess. PAC has done nothing--Cincy St. is a hopeful work in progress and the key glimmer of a future at this time. I was told thatthat a local attorneypossibly has been retained to do the Cincy St., Fastrax and other ED duties. This could be the best thing going for the situation.
The city owns far too much dormant property in the former downtown. When you look at:
former Office Outfitter empty property(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
former Clark station(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
empty Antique Mall to Cabinet shop(still empty)
Studio/Strand + connecting structure(yet to be demo'ed)
adjacent empty lots(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
city owned Cabinet shop(still in use by cabinet makers--are they paying rent/utilities?)
former Swallens/parking garage(de-constructed at taxpayer expense)
2 former bank buildings("mothballed" at taxpayer expense)
former Masonic Temple(well-utilized by ACF)
Cinergy building(hopefully used by Cincy St.eventually)
former Manchester Inn(to be used for/by ?? at a HUGE taxpayer expense)
Sonshine building(same as above)
+ numerouS residential properties that are costing the taxpayer between $50,000-$75,000 EACH un-necessarily.
Crime and Section 8 are still far out of proportion, with nothing really being done about either. Only talk and dept/committee reports dominating the sessions.
Blaming 2 new Councilmembers or a somewhat new city manager is a stretch, and imo scapegoating those responsible for decades of short-sighted decisions and policies.
The Master Plan Steering Committee has been put on hold for 4 months now without meeting.
Can't get a quorum, and any momentum from early efforts has been lost due to committee appointments who simply didn't follow through on their pledge to serve. As a member of this committee, I thank Marty K for his open and sincere effort to keep this rolling. Things have changed locally, with the master plan posibly due to be revised to necessary adjustments brought on by on-going circumstances.
MU-M just finished a wonderful Artists/Lecture series last night with an outstanding sold-out performance by Arlo Guthrie. Credit to the hard work of Howard Epstein and the confidence/encouragement from Mr.Pratt. This series brought in 6 very different groups of attendees(mostly from outside of Middietown), and gave them a strong positive impression of local aesthetics, also a boon to local restaurants.To her credit, our city manager was one of the strongest most enthusiastic supporters of this series. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 11:15am
Say what ?!!! We missed the party at Prime Minister Gillelands' house ? I'm like Vet,if she had a party everyone at MUSA would have received an invitation. Unless Randy & Vet went without me. 
I was told years ago by a good source and someone in the know that certain business people actually ran this town so I agree with jag.There is always people with money behind the scenes directing what steps the city takes I think everyone can agree with that.The only way to fix the problem's would be to have people in office who will sever the ties and alienate the big money.Gilleland is the worse thing that has ever happened to this town.IMO she has no clue what she is doing or how to manage a city.If she was running a company the way she runs this town she would have been fired long ago.
If you really want the problems solved get people in office on all levels with no self interest other than to see the city get back on it's feet.Keep business people out of and off of city council,cut the city managers salary by at least 20%,stop everyone from pulling stunts like making Becker city manager,no more promoting within,hold council and the city manager to higher standards with the stipulation you screw up twice and your gone,pass legislation to eliminate some of these idiotic city ordinances,eliminate the requirement of filing a city tax return,this is the number one dumbest thing I ever seen or heard of,bring in the state to audit everything and find out where the discrepancies are and where the money has gone and is going,eliminate boards,eliminate spending on idiotic projects like the multi-million dollar bike path,if the state or county wants a bike path make them pay for it,eliminate "Illusions of Grandeur" like the Renaissance area,all that is just another money maker for the ones running this town.
Do things like this and you might see Middeltown bounce back.Sure it will take more than just the things I mention but it's a start.We can sit here all day long and list everything thats wrong with this town,matter of fact I can't think of anything thats right about it.Sure anyone can say "Well Hermes run for office if you want change" well I'd love to but my health won't allow it.
So thats all I got to say about that.  ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 12:55pm
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sj makes a good point and is to be commended for his efforts with MUM IMHO. Exemplification there are existing assets that can be utilized effectively. The series was excellent and had tremendous talent including some rather esteemed performers. I know many attorneys, and not certain that many are good rianmakers at their own business, let alone being ED's for a city. Was that move you reference sj to placate the relation the attorney you make subtle reference with his partnership with the strained LR ruffled feathers? I don't know. Or maybe he's drafting the lease agreement, but isn't that what Landen does to earn a paycheck? When will the recognition and comprehension occur has too much much damage been done to recover, and then start with the clean up effort like Japan? The neglect of the city's efforts on streets and infrastructure has lasting ramifications. Middletown is looking like a war zone with so many FOR SALE signs out. I could not believe Manchester yesterday, the old hospital area, everywhere including daVinci. I can't comprehend with all these bimonthly emergency sessions and what not, why can't the council simply start with putting back in place an ordinance that reverses taking road funds to pay payroll? That's a no brainer 'baby step' correct? Many arguments about Sunset, but city closes a pool that has been around since the 20's for $50,000 annual expenses, but collects buildings, including airports, golf clubs, and the $500 Kk was dropped with high risk, while shutting down Sunset that a fraction of those funds would have kept the pool open for 10 years perhaps. There is simply too much lack of logic accompanying so many decisions. It used to be enough local movement up would sustain Middletown's housing market. For the past 5 years, more in Middletown want out, than want to stay within, and move up. The housing stock will be 15-20 years to purge, maybe longer. I agree with the change at the Renaissance, now adding more to the competing price point already in dismal shape. You are correct a few council members are not the cause of the city's overwhelming and catastropic problems. But, the wrong moves continued to be played, the wrong assets held, and the pain threshold is reaching overwhelming proportion and consequence for a majority. |
Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 1:35pm
| SJ glad to hear all went well last night along with the other shows you helped bring to Middletown. Once again I scratch my head at what direction this forum is going. I hear and by the way lived through the last 20 years of the mistakes made by our city government. Great- we've covered that topic, whats happening today to get our city from buying more property, loaning out more money to out of town business's who by the way can now compete against long time business owner's of this town for convention space thanks to my money being given out. Mr. Presta started this thread with pop. decline in our county and what he felt should happen in a bullet point layout to "right" our city. Lets start with having the right people in place to begin. Scapegoating? Who's in charge now? Need to head out but heres a good one and if it's true it speaks volumes of the climate in that building. Supt. of weatherwax resigning, gave notice two weeks ago still hasn't heard from senior staff. Lots of ways to look at that but he has a great track record. All that money invested in this person and know one follows up. Sure I doubt it would help keep him at the course but who wants to work in that type of enviroment. Regardless of how you feel about the productivity of our city staff it's what we all have to depend on to keep this town functioning. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 1:43pm
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Regarding the road funds, does anyone know what "fat" there is in the city budget that can realistically be cut? We're stuck with the police/fire budgets for now, we can't sell Weatherwax even if we wanted to, what else.... I don't know what departments or people in that building can be cut without "services" going to the bone. Don't tell me Kohler and Landen because their salaries would simply go to their replacements. I would imagine the offices in the city building should be half empty.
jag123, you seem to be a city building insider.....what is your opinion?
Middletown: the poverty town that offers absolutely nothing in return for your tax dollars.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 1:56pm
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I've read all of the responses from this post and I have a request; please don't use initials to describe a person or organization if you haven't used the name of the person in your post. I was never good at guessing initials and some of the ones previously used above just left me shaking my head. Using initials after you've used the name in your post is fine; I apologize for my ignorance.
I agree with rem1187 that listing the past mistakes will not fix them. Mr. Presta rightly points out that positive thinking alone will not solve the city's current plight. I also agree with acclaro's assessment that the money used on Cincy State project could have kept the public pool up and running for a decade. If the Cincy state deal falls through, will we sell the buildings purchased? If Verdin walks away from PAC, what will happen there? A lot of "what ifs" involved in the city's current planning. I'd like to see a plan for the city that has a more solid foundation. Certainly, not a plan that has so many risks associated with taxpayers money.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 2:25pm
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TonyB, I apologize. My LR reference was Lenny Robinson, commercial real estate developer, as I thought and believe sj's reference was to Greg Pratt, a Middletown attorney in his post. Completely agree with your assessments. Pointing out the past however, does serve a useful purpose. If the path and direction is the same its been on, we are doomed. The repetition in that regard IMHO, is the path continues, perhaps worsening, than it has been on for decades. Does Cincinnati State help? I have no idea or has it been communicated how Cin State would offer programs in diversity ( one, few, all). The area around the hospital was the savior. What happened? I'd like to see a plan that could be executed, that wasn't a macro Master without details that are workable (to Mike Presta's post), and a degree of security and comfort some one is actually guiding the ship besides MMF, and a constant spinning of the wheels getting no traction. Why is Monroe winning? Why is the Austin Reed area? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 14 2011 at 7:09pm
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It’s simple, really. There are lots of answers and solutions coming out of City Hall. Just one big hitch: Those answers and solutions just don’t match the real problems that we have!!! Go back to my original post in this thread!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 10:23am
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I can't see why all our tissue factories closed down with all the cry babies in Middletown! |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 10:25am
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I'm just kidding really... |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 10:59am
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acclaro, I didn't mean to imply that pointing to the past isn't valuable. What I'm saying is that pointing to past mistakes is useful only when you learn the lessons of past mistakes and successes. Patterns in the past can help to avoid mistakes and promote success. There is no going back, ie. filling in Lake Middletown, etc. The earlier comment that those who put us in this mess starting 30 years ago can't hurt us now isn't true unless we avoid repeating those mistakes. Tudor Brown, second post was unnecessary; if people couldn't figure out that your comment was meant in jest, then telling them you were kidding isn't going to convince them. |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 11:02am
Don't you think I'm a handsome fella though? me and my old lady:  |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 11:43am
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no crying on this end, and not trying to re-live the past.
However I DO know what has happened, a lot of what is happening, and pretty much who caused it and is calling the shots now. I have attended many Council/Cimmission meetings and have spoken out many times. I have served on many city boards and committees and currently serve on the Master Plan Steering Committee.
Think as you like--no major issue there--however I take exception to myself and many others here being branded as crybabies, whiners, complainers and negative troublemakers.
Imo we need the Cincy St.project to keep the former downtown area afloat. The current group of property owners and city direction has produced little to nothing outside of a lot of future expense and maintenence. Un-paid loans, giveaways + wasted building improvements didn't get us anywhere other than to render the properties pretty much worthless. How much debt do you expect as this project plays out? How will roads be fixed? How will businesses and job-producers be incentived to come here? Do we even have an ED dept. any more? What is happening with Section 8, after all of the meetings, proclamations and promises?
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 12:15pm
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TonyB, perhaps I have not myself clear. The past is a reflection of the decades of Middletown's leadership dimply not looking ahead, focusing upon a diversified industry in contrast to awaiting AK's direction and vision (now of course head-uartered in West Chester), and the paper mills. To his credit, use Barry Levy as an example of someone looking forward and the impact MUM had upon Middletown directly and indirectly. Hence, the problems and lack of leadership go back decades, and have manifested forward to a point I argue, today's leaderhsip is actually worse, in spite of putting in well educated people.
My reference to the past and the prolonging of the depth of this lack of forward thinking I argue, has plcaed us in a position the city is simply not able to be competitive with other communities on tax incentives. Stacking up non profits may have some benefit, in payroll taxes, but they also are not subject to property tax. So when the mix is heavily non profits, that has less impact than industrial, office, or private commercial sector.
Without tax base, and decling property values, less funds are available to be used for streets, attracting business, and promoting the city. More importantly, so the argument just doesn't become circuitous, which even my posts and many others, are points made that go back 6 years or more, a record on Ground Hog Day, no progress is taking place, no new direction is being carved. To Mike Presta's point,, you must first acknowledge you have a problem, and then begin to fix it.
The leaders barely acknowledge there is a problem, and have surrounded themselves by a few whom reinforce its not that bad, because they are doing well, or they want to protect theor own turf, and make certain they have a place in the life boat, before others as the Titantic goes down.
You are talking solutions which are raising taxes or getting more business and residents into Middletown. We are pointing out why that is not occurring nor been a success. If it had, there would be 600 $300,000 + homes in the Renaissance, not 60. The school's would be busting, instead of consolidating. The downtown would have some niche identity, albeit antiques, coffee shops, instead of adding a school system that after many months of discussion, the residents still have no idea, nor do the players, what programs are coming, is it culinary, or everything Cincinnati State offers. That, in sum, is the reference to the past.
Any tears are to witness the cancer ravage this city, and a drunk surgeon attempting to operate, taking out wrong limbs, and missing the diagnosis, as we the patient, are on our death bed. Last rites are about to be administered, while downtown, we are given a campaign slogan how bright our future will be. Gradnted, it may be in heaven, or another community, but it will not be in Middletown.
So, like the alcoholic, as Mr. Presta began this post, until the problem is recognized, there is no hope to implement change. Succinctly, the problem is not identified nor acknowledged, and the city has surrounded themselves by a few who tell the terminally ill patient, don't worry about, its just a minor head cold. Take two aspirins, call me in the morning.
sj makes referemce to Section 8. That massive problem furthering the decline in property valuation served to benefit the city. It allowed them to create a new department Doug Adkins created and runs with a few on payroll. No decline in numbers, and it fills some of the massive housing stock Middletown has. When will it reach a point you have a home on daVinci, filled with section 8 tenants?
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 4:02pm
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acclaro, You've been very clear in your post that the problem is LEADERSHIP! I agree that what has happened in the past is what has got us to our present predicament. I agree also that you can have a whole room full of PhDs and not solve anything without leadership. I also agree that non-profits will not rectify the situation. Non-profit corparations are what you get AFTER you have a private sector tax base that can sustain the expense of infrastructure, police/fire protection and other necessary government services.
If this council says everything is fine, I'd say we have identified the problem. If having a Section 8 department serves this city, I don't see it. If we can't get new business and industry to move here, we need to change the situation. It all comes down to a change of leadership. Will we talk about it or do something? If we see what is wrong and can't either get our elected leaders to address the issues or replace them with someone who will, then all we are doing is crying over the death of our city.
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Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 4:42pm
If y'all don't shut up i'm gonna go out of my mind...
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Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 9:35pm
| I'm doing a Tony I know but-- Turd (for short) whats really on your mind? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 15 2011 at 10:53pm
Wait!!! I thought we needed the Pendleton to keep the former downtown area afloat??? No, wait!!! I thought we needed the new train station to keep the former downtown area afloat???
No, wait!!! I thought we needed to demolish all of the old buildings to keep the former downtown area afloat???
No, wait!!! I thought we needed the Main Street Project to keep the former downtown area afloat??? No, wait!!! I thought we needed to restore all of the old buildings to keep the former downtown area afloat??? No, wait!!! I thought we needed the Crossroads 2000 to keep the former downtown area afloat??? No, wait!!! I thought we needed Lake Middletown to keep the former downtown area afloat??? No, wait!!! I thought we needed the City Centre Mall to keep the former downtown area afloat??? Wait!!! Remind me again EXACTLY WHY we need to keep the former downtown area afloat!!!
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 7:58am
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Mr.P==
of course "they" need more of yer tax $$, free properties and forgiven "loans" to save the former downtown area(again). Cincy St. will be expensive.
So--
if we now have residential TIFs, which can be used to fund road improvements(and anything else loosely associated), why shouldn't EVERY neighborhood establish TIFs to fund these future improvements, instead of the current "pay your own" policy?
Is Miller Road(north and south) the only residential TIFs? Why?
Will S Main and the Highlands district both be the last areas to be re-done under the "city pay" system?
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 8:15am
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Only "Ye Olde" portion of South Main Street!!!
The lower portion of S. Main (read that as the part that PRISM has no interest in) will be left to continue to crumble.
Also, look for Kohler to find a way to justify the more expensive "olde tyme" street lights to be installed along with the new paving, curbs, etc.
I wouldn't put it past him to try to get the more expensive "olde tyme" (fake) cobblestone curbs either, if he can sneak it in. Nothing is too good as long as the taxpayers are footing the bill. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 9:40am
| Mr. Presta, Thank you for this thread and the insights it has provided. I finally realized that after 44 posts (including this one) that the real question has yet to be asked, so here goes: what IYHO are the real problems that this city faces? Take the position that you are advising a brand new city council. What would you tell them about the real problems this city faces? |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 11:13am
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I recall Mr. Beckerbeing the most vocal that downtown was dead and really would never come back to what it was true, as most towns have very little dowtown that provides much to lure a heavy traffic pattern). But, if so, why the lack of dissent on the Manchester/ Cinergy/ C State deal?
TonyB, you are correct, the problems have been identified and include leadership. Bright people now for the most part, but intelligence doesn't always and rarely sparks leadership and change. I recommend you look forward to solutions which also have been listed many times over.
Some advocate recalls, others state, wait, November is close enough, lots of council seats open. Logical to me. Know idea who is running, and who is not.
Others indicate downtown needs a center for entertainment. Others say is downtown even needed? To the folks living in the historic strip, they want to protect their property and say yes, put that $$$ into a nice niche historic footprint that matches my 1871 Victorian.
Taxes- most would say rll back taxes to 1.5% as taxation rarerly solves problems nor spurs growth, others might say we have to fund all the city wants and it should be 2.25%. Lower taxes including property taxes, brings in new residents, tax credits bring in new business. Both like to see nice roads and a sense of pride which crumbling streets reflects otherwise. Blame that on city hall, and council for using funds for salaries and hindering the asthetic appeal of the community as citizens detriment.
Schools. Wish Kasich would implement voucher program. Middletown stuck on CI, no better, no worse, a detriment to bringing in those outside Middletown and a part in the leapfrog of Monroe to Austin Reed, bypassing Middletown.
I'll offer my solution. I see Middletown better able to leverage a large area and focusing more on being an attractive residential site, than industrial. Really no significant indistril park, other than Paychex, and what was built never took off. Bring tax rate now, and property tax will take care of itself as the city has plunged so low, and that may help with inflow of new residents, but the problem is there with streets, infrastructure. Few would think it be a valid option for a neighborhood to vote to have streets repaved when that is the function and part of tax base.
Tax structure is not good for business in Middletown. Drove AK hq to West Chester, and some of the wealthiest residents have their businesses in Trenton and Monroe---that speaks volumes about 'business friendly'.
Will November and new council alter direction? No idea. I look at the school board that has the same members for 20 years or more, and the same problem that sits on council; that being, satisfied with direction and lack of results while telling the masses, progress is being made, inching closer to the finish line. Then, an occasional purge to blame it all on someone else.
Or maybe there is enough agreement to take back the city from those whom have led us down the path of dstruction year after year. Maybe the plan really needs to be---how do we remove the people who destroyed Middletown by getting voters turned out and the right candidates in? The one seems to be an easy solution with the code never cracked TonyB.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 6:14pm
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“What are the real problems that this city faces?” Great question, TonyB!!! Who out there thinks that the answer is: “The number one, biggest problem that Middletown faces is ‘how do we keep the former downtown afloat?’” ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 9:00pm
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Sam wanted it done, so she did it. Your answer: No.
The Greenwich Village of Ohio, the Carmel of southestern Ohio? Doubtful, but its an 'elitist' thing only a few cultured people would understand. Can't wait for the 'soft' opening and the even better 'hard' opening.
Here's who is opening the act, art....its complicated. Many won't understand. It takes a special cultural exposure to appreciate its value and potential Mr. Presta.
http://youtu.be/KgNmTA728oY
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 9:01pm
| http://youtu.be/KgNmTA728oY - http://youtu.be/KgNmTA728oY |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 16 2011 at 9:14pm
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Who out there thinks that the answer is: “The number one, biggest problem that Middletown faces is ‘how do we keep the former downtown afloat?’” Gentlemen Now that the population is below 50,000 the city’s HUD funding will take a major cut. What will the city do now? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 17 2011 at 6:41am
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Vivian...increase the city income tax rate to 2 or 2.25%. Write more speeding tickets. Call the camera folks and have more traffic light cameras installed. Have city staff research ways to attract more fed funds into town through other "ghetto" type programs. Increase fees on any new or existing businesses here in town. Increase water/sewer rates again. More "rusty gutter" fines from the people. High grass/weeds fine. Dirty car fines. Fine for having more than two cars parked in front of your house or in your driveway. A toll booth on Central, in all directions, as you approach the artzy center downtown. ( ) Charging an admission fee to use the parks. A fee for walking your dog. Conducting tours of the city building and charging for the priviledge of seeing YOUR city government "in action" ( ). Charging a fee to observe the next hiring event of the ten new DIErectors and another ASSistant Law DIErector to help ole Les.(Les is overworked, don't cha know) Charging a fee for the priviledge of driving down S. Main with the possibility of "catching a glimpse" of Mayor Lawrence Mulligan Jr. or the honorable Martin Kohler Esq. at home while the peasants ride by. A number of ways to extract money from the citizen's wallets for Gilleland's Gang. One thing for sure, they ain't gonna pursue any jobs or companies to draw serious revenue from are they? Too easy applying for fed dollars and draining the citizen's paychecks.
Ya gotta start with the removal of the cause of the problems before you can start repairing the town. It is never going to heal unless you cut all the city building/council cancer out. The healing will start with the proper people in place, headed in the right direction with totally different priorities. JMO |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 17 2011 at 10:19am
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I'm still waiting for someone to step up and elaborate on what they see as the No. 1 problem in Middletown. So, in the spirit of "stepping up" let me list IMHO what I see as our problems:
1. Given current revenues, how do we provide essential services (police/fire/water) in the most effective and efficient manner.
2. How do we use our remaining revenues to repair our infrastructure in a timely, cost-efficient manner.
3. What legislative actions need to be taken to encourage private investment within the city.
4. What public/private initiatives can we encourage to develop our residential/educational/cultural opportunities within the city.
5. What laws, rules and regulations need aproved, amended or removed from our city.
Hopefully, that will stimulate some debate.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 17 2011 at 10:39am
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TonyB- you asked, I respond.
IMO, the #1 problem in this city is the lack of competent leadership constantly making wrong decisions, poor planning and heading in the wrong direction. Without competent leadership, both on council and in the city building, we are going nowhere as evidenced by the past 30+ years. All of the players have fit the profile described above resulting in the inept game plan for the city. All 5 of the things you have listed pertain to the ineffectiveness of past and current city leadership. Again, like a broken record, we need to do a complete removal of council, followed by the installation of competent, non-self interest type people who care only for growing this town by creating the correct direction and priorities. The new council will remove the city manager, law director, planning director, gut the eco. devel. department and start over with new people with ideas similar to what has been suggested on this very forum. If you don't change the failed direction, priorities and thinking, you will always have the same results. JMO |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 17 2011 at 11:06am
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In my humble opinion, keeping the former downtown afloat is not even in the top ten list of greatest problems that this city faces. That is something that should be left to market forces. City hall should be as accommodating as possible (as they should be in any other area of Middletown) but we must stop squandering our city’s treasure (and our children’s and grandchildren’s futures) on one harebrained scheme after another that benefit only a few.
It is really that simple, in my humble opinion. Solve these problems and we will soon have a thriving, prosperous city. Then all we have to do is keep it. If we do not solve those five first, and quickly, I doubt we will ever have a chance to get more specific. I once posted a list of about seven to ten specific action items, but there is no chance of implementation without the forgoing occuring first. I can dig them up if it ever looks like we are making strides towards accomplishing the above.------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 17 2011 at 11:36am
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Mike, you are spot-on. If I may, I'd add URGENCY. And, move 5 up to no. 1. Because if you have a community that simply doesn't care nor recognize they are being robbed and run over by the city, but don't care, self interest, poor leadership, all of the above, will simply put, continue to be tolerated. The crown jewel in your calculus, and the success or failure is apathy, and creation of outrage. Time is running out. The meltdown in housing will be a generation problem if not longer. Middletown doesn't have that luxury of time my friend. Yes, the city workers may hang on, because of AK's tax base, but the destruction to the resident will be irrepairable. And yet, they don't seem to care.
Don't think the smart ones don't see these problems. Were are the town's most prominent resident's grown children? Living anywhere but Middletown.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 18 2011 at 9:42am
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Mr. Presta, thank you for your insightful post. Your list of problems that our city faces is a microcosm of what our country faces. I agree with acclaro that your no. 5 should move to no.1.
The apathy of our citizens seems puzzling until you recognize how out of touch our leaders are to citizens. That, IMHO, is why special interests dominate decision making in all levels of government. It is much easier to focus a group on one problem than it is to educate them on how one decision influences many other aspects of government. How to educate the public and get them actively engaged in public policy decisions on a local level is a real challenge in our technology driven, stay at home, stick your head in the sand world we've created. You certainly can't mandate participation, yet across the globe you see other people fighting for the rights and privledges that we take for granted and ignore (to our detriment, I might add). A part of your no. 2 problem might also include the lack of education in civics and why it is essential in a free society for citizens to actively engage in the political process. Until our children are taught that with rights come responsibilities we will continue to see the few rule the many.
Do you see our local form of government as a problem? A city manager hired by an elected body doesn't seem to be a very responsive nor imaginative way to do the business of government. An administration that doesn't respond to the needs and wishes of its populace is never going to come up with the solutions to the problems you have listed. Who actually sets the priorities for our city? A hired hand instead of an elected official?
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 18 2011 at 12:21pm
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TonyB, I hope you don't mind me responding as your pt seemed to be focused upon Mr. Presta. With technology, including this forum, which provides the internet access site and a plethora of viewpoints usually supported by facts. So, this site is actually quite beneficial to the citizens and virtually all residents have access to the internet site, albeit MUM, the library, or own personal ownership. Could more residents view Middletownusa and aren't aware of it? Yes. Are there other means of reaching residents? If course. Another website, flyers, blogs, tweets, and the least ineffective to date....the face to face meetings.
I suppose from what I have read and heard, many tune in to this ite, so that's a good start associated with the apathy problem. Could it be better coordinated. Yes. Is there anyone willing to take the lead? i have no idea, as no one has come forward to date. If quality candidates can't be found, and prominent ones put in by MMF, then the cycle continues. The same with voting; if voters don't vote against the stautus uo, there is no change. Are there bright spots? I think the actions of the rd Ward representative have been commendable.
To your other point regarding Mayor vs City Manager. My biggest concern is in theory, the city manager is taken out of the politics, and the Mayor is the city or municipal cheerleader. He/she focuses upon ED and getting key issues moved through on levies passing or defeating. Maybe the solution in Middletown is to combine both and have a full-time paid Mayor, that is voted upon every 4 years. Politics would continue to seep in, but at least the constituents would have the opportunity to remedy a problem as a majority instead of reliance upon the "hired gun", in this case, arguably, put in by a very select minority of residents.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 5:09am
IMHO, a small group of influential private individuals sets the priorities for our city.
Who is supposed to set the priorities??? Our elected city council. The "hired hand" (the city manager) is supposed to "be the administrative head of the municipal government under the direction and supervision of the council and who shall hold office at the pleasure of the council." (Per ORC 705.58)
On a related note, please recall recently when our City Manager was absent. City Council and the Law Director flaunted the law, thereby fueling speculation about the City Manager's status. The Ohio Revised Code is quite clear on how temporary absences of the city manager are to be handled:
There was no record of the Law Director having been duly appointed "acting City Manager" in any minutes of Council meeting. All it would've taken was a simple motion and vote, but that is too much to ask of our IMPERIAL city government. As usual, they consider themselves ABOVE the law!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 5:29am
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Speaking of the apathy of our citizenry, I should once again mention that, at a minimum, there will be FOUR city council seats up for grabs this November!!! (The mayoral seat, the other two at-large seats, and the remaining term of the Ward One seat.) Now is the time to find four good candidates and begin the process!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 9:36am
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ORC 705.58: " the member of council serving as chairman shall act as city manager and perform all the duties of such office"
Mike, would this not have been the responsibility of Larry Mulligan, is mayor, he serves as 'Chair' of counsel. Under my interpretation, the meeting oversight by the Law Director was a violation of the Code. Thoughts?
Everything loos to be a green light for Cincinnati State. Everyone on board where they are land-locked, and seem to be salivating. Why? What makes this deal so attractive. Chairs of Departments stating they'd be fool to passon what Middletown has offered? What truly has Middletown offered. It fits their students 'like a glove'? Driving up and down the highway fits their students like a glove at $4.00/ gal.
Where do these people in academia come from. Aren't renovation costs outlasndish or are they reasonable? Everyone at Cincinnato State selling their Hyde Park homes to move to Middletown? The city providing all empty buildings because no one downtown and Cincinnatio State thinks they are in heaven, 7-8 miles off the interstate, a good 20 minute drive, when > 80% of Cincy State students also work fulltime?
The universe has changed. East is west, bad is good, Chairs who teach business technology can't crunch numbers? Welcome Cincinnati State, forget about the fact MUM's enrollemnt is far below MUH, you'll be just fine. No, your students won't mind driving 30 miles each way, and there are plenty of 4000 vacant sq ft homes to rent, where you can cram 30 people in a rent deal.
I guess they are truly renting a whole town. Then having lunch breaks over at PAC daily, or the Jug. What a plan.
t
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 11:57am
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acclaro - of course I don't mind. I only addressed my comments to Mr. Presta because he started this thread and it was his post that I was responding to. Your responses as well as Viet Vet and several others have been most enlightening. Respectful discussion and debate are the hallmarks of true democracy.
Mr. Presta - don't you think that in some small way we all seem to have the same problem as our elected leaders, that they are above the law. It seems nowadays, that so long as you know what the law is, it's ok to break it because "it's me, it's ok"? We seem to have a disrespect for the law because there are so many and at times contradictory. I do like the T. Roosevelt quote, "Obedience of the law is not a request, it's a demand." It would be alot easier if the laws were simplified and there were few, if any, exceptions. Enforcement would also be much easier. It also seems that elected officials think that since "they are the law" they no longer have to obey the law. If anything, they should realize that a government official, whether elected or employed, they should avoid even the appearance of breaking the law. Yes, I know, easier said than done.
As for the small group who influences city decisions, it seems that it has been like that in this town for as long as I can remember. Money buys influence and those with money get to do alot of "influencing' in this town. Only a well-organized, grassroots movement can overcome that kind of influence.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 1:22pm
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TonyB, I concur with your position. I also agree with the greassroots movement. It would not take much, just a corrdinated effort and getting people to the polls. There is sufficient time to get candiates in line who are worthy and interested in reshaping Middletown. I'm not certain about the candidates nor interest, for many, the problem is time, not interest. Not everyone can walk across from the FB& T building, or drive from Hamilton to the historic house on Main timely.
I agree with your post as well as albeith a Dem or Repub, both are really no different, just pandering to different groups. I prefer the Independant as well. Butler Cty has more RHINO's than any county in Ohio IMHO, including Tony Marconi, and many others, whom sit/sat on council.
Finally, I am getting a kick out of the Cincinnati State scenario. The reality appears State is getting all of downtown, to create their own Oxford, Ada, Athens, or other small town where the college runs the town area, with a key from the city. They also get all the 12 or so established bars, so as one of the Chairs said making the visit to downtwn, as there is nothing else, they really are a "college in a box", put some water in, and the bars, everything, are here. And as an added benefit, you get the bike paths.
Now when will those students elect to stay close to their roots in Middletown upon graduation, like they do in Oxford, and other communities? Welcome Cincinnati State, you have a greenfield to call your own. It used to be downtown Middletown. Soon, it will be yours.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 5:31pm
| acclaro - why stop there??? I just had a marvelous idea. Let's become a college town, literally!!! All of those vacant lots where we are "reshaping" our housing portfolio? Let's give them to university engineering depts and let them build eco friendly, energy efficient new houses. All the empty industrial and factory areas? How about giving them away to universities to rehab and build 21st century technology? If we play our cards right, we could even get a state of the art stadium built!!! Think about all the college profesors that would move to town and pay those income taxes!!! Sorg Opera House? Rebuilt and turned into a Creative and Performing Arts Center. The Studio? Rebuilt and the new School of Film. Can you imagine how many dorm rooms we're going to need!!! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 5:55pm
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TonyB, I wish this would have such potential, I'd love to live in a college town. I guess we do, with MUM's presence, but you are right about the concept. I'm not certain if Cincinnati State has those types of funds, but it is a pleasant thought isn't it. Something in the back of my mind makes me think this is something already conceptualized in the evolving Master Plan.
Aftre reading the article, I have no doubt Cincinnati State thinks this is a great move for them, having all of Middletown to shape for their needs downtown. I believe I saw the Cincinnati State President driving around the Highlands area house hunting this afternoon. Lets hope they don't allow frats and sororities at CS, or we'll have another Oxford on our hands. But, the court would love the revenue from fines and disorderly conduct. The traffic citations will come with or without the dorms.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 5:56pm
| OMG!!! Why stop there? We could actually have the university offer classes on how to run a government and they COULD BE THE GOVERNMENT!!! Think of the practical, hands-on experience; think of the resume boost out of college. "I graduated with a four yr degree and a term on city council!" lmao |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 6:00pm
| South Main Street houses as FRAT CENTRAL!!! With the Sorg Mansion as the President of Middletown University house! lol |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Mar 19 2011 at 7:50pm
| Just think of the number of retired Armco management teaching business classes on campus, the attorneys in town teaching paralegal classes, and all the adjunct professor roles everyone would have. ust imagine the guest lecture series. I think S. Main to easily handle 5,000 students in some of those 30,000s ft homes. And at Halloween, for a month, The movie theater runs with The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Now where will they place Sigma Chi and Kappa Alpha Theta? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 20 2011 at 6:14am
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I admit that I am not a culinary school graduate, but a feel I must correct the unnamed “college official’s” recipe for a “college in a box”!!! The missing ingredient is NOT water. I believe what he/she should’ve said is: “Just add MONEY!!!” Does anyone need three guesses whose money our vaunted city officials plan to use??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 20 2011 at 11:24am
| Mr. Presta - only one guess should be sufficient, don't you think? Once again, I'll state the obvious; I don't mind spending taxpayer money, but when you do it, it had better succeed!! The proven track record of our city council to properly manage an economic development makes this chancy proposal. Also, just because one would be crazy not to take this offer, doesn't mean it's going to happen!!! You are absolutely correct when you point to the money already spent is just the downpayment on this whole development. My post above about literally turning this into a college town may be the solution to every point you listed above. If nothing else, apathy will either disappear or be replaced. What will replace the apathy if this doesn't happen? |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Mar 20 2011 at 12:30pm
| The big problem with this deal is that more taxpayer funds will be used to make it happen than we will get back in the form of increased tax revenue. |
Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 20 2011 at 6:22pm
| This is a tech school. I hope all of staff and middletown knows this. Oxford, Athens B.G.S.U far from it. To bad small steps couldn't have been applied to this great experiment. One building two courses with expectations set very low. Would love to go down to a bar that served a great micro-I.P.A with some steamed clams and a upbeat crowd. Alot of dropouts in two year programs. |
Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 23 2011 at 10:30pm
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Did we get rid of the mess? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 24 2011 at 5:05am
A resident recently said "this is the most important thing that has happened in Middletown in the last 50 years.”
Another resident said "Middletown has municipal government rife with corruption."
Of course, just because a resident said it, doesn't necessarily make a statement true. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 24 2011 at 6:31am
Nope, the mess is still here....and, they're still occuping the city building and sitting behind council's desk every other Tuesday. But, it was fun discussing those associated with the mess. |
Posted By: rem 1187
Date Posted: Mar 24 2011 at 10:39am
| Was just cking, did not mean to come off as a smart__s. I found this thread although at times going in different directions quite interesting. As in another thread, I stated it comes down to leadership and following the law and a plan that as Mr. Presta laid out on his first post focus's on the real problems. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 25 2011 at 2:26am
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Rem,
You didn't come off that way...at least you didn't appear so to me.
Besides, it appears that smart__ses are welcome here. (They still allow ME to post!!!) ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |