Note To City Council:
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4344
Printed Date: Apr 23 2024 at 4:27am
Topic: Note To City Council:
Posted By: Pacman
Subject: Note To City Council:
Date Posted: Jan 27 2012 at 9:03pm
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LIBERTY TWP. — Developers of a multimillion dollar retail, residential and
entertainment development could receive at least $35 million in tax incentives
to build the facility in Butler County.
Liberty Twp. trustees approved Friday a memorandum of understanding between the township, Butler County and developers of the $300 million Liberty Town Square planned for construction at the Liberty Way Interchange on Interstate 75. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As Noted Above, In the partial article from Middletown Journal It should become obvious to any city council alon I75 where the growth is. While Middletown drags it's feet on the east end and dumps millions of $$ into a downtown that is crumbling more each day other communities along I75 are growing even in this economy. When will Middletown wake up?? 200 student downtown and first friday PAC openings is not going to support the mess that it called downtown. This should be a no brainer to develope the I75 corridor as fast as possible. Instead Middletown is stuck in the '50s and it's main concentration over and over again in the poverty which they are unable to control. Middletown got themselves into this poverty mess and they are unable to extracate themselves from it, now we all pay the price.
City Council can sit there all day long and tell themselves and us that every thing is wonderful. But that only makes them seem more out of touch with the citizens of Middletown. Pacman  |
Replies:
Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Jan 27 2012 at 9:26pm
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Its not just about being on 75, it is about being along the right place on 75. This is right on the border of Liberty and West Chester Townships near Mason. It is also not too far for the northern suburbs along 275. 122 and 75 is a good location, but we are not getting this level of development out there.
It is also interesting to note that they are building a downtown. That's right. A place where the buildings will look old and there will be sidewalks, greenspaces, streetlights, and required outdoor walking--even from your car parked in the garage or surface lot surrounding the development. The biggest retail draw is SW Ohio--like so many other places--is not going to be an enclosed mall or big box strip. It will be a recreated downtown. And yet we are still mythed why some people might care about what happens to Downtown Middletown.
Let's work on both 122 & 75 and Central & Main development; no reason to put our eggs in one basket.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jan 27 2012 at 10:04pm
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Support, Along I75 and Exit 32 your have Monroe exit to the south and Franklin exit to the north from which to draw traffic (i.e. shoppers, restraunt patrons, business people, etc.). It really doesn't matter to me what Lib Townshp is designing ther Downtown to look like, the more important fact is that it is off I75. While Middletown's is 5-7 miles west of I75 through some of the most undesirable parts of the city. I see little value at this time in spending millions of dollars buying old delapitated buildings and trying to revive old downtown over and over again. To me the much more logical thing to do is to develope the east end with emenities that people desire which would include town mall. That mall has already had a plan brought forward but the city refused to participate in the remodling of it. The city keeps buying old buildings downtown with thopes that they can do something with them. Middletown can barely pay to repair the potholes. The situation that Middletown is in will not be reversed until city council stops waffling on their plans and realizes that downtown is history (as in a waste of money). If the city would develope the east end to it's fullest extent then they may have money to dabble in saving some buildings downtown. The City also needs to stop catering to the lower income population. Middletown always seems to want to be the best of the worst, I mean they constantly compare themselves to the worst urban centers in Ohio. The citizens also need to understand that in order to bring about change there must be some give and take by the citizens. This means that it is going to take some money on the citizens part to make imporvements. Pacman |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 10:22am
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The east end has been mostly non profit development. as usual, Middletown remains the last area to feel the development off i-75. Fenwick got many acres from the Akers, the Atrium got many acres from Thatcher, and the remaining amount has not attracted much, other than non profits. Downtown is a farce, Cincinnati State will never be a hotbed of activity. It staggers the mind even contemplating with a school called MUM in place, with 3500 students, an MBA program, Associates Degrees, and BA/BS programs, that in turn, a two year community college would have any significant impact. It won't. So, SM suggests the viability of a two prong approach, east end and downtown? Where's the money going---downtown. Pacman, taxes are not teh answer. Middletown has outrageously high taxes for the amenities (non existent). The neglect of roads and infrastructure has caused about a $200 Mm, property values are .5% of what they were 20 years ago, and you think citizens need to give a little? Sorry, but taxation is the last thing Middletown needs, but as I realize its economic development efforts are always failures, they will try again, as they do every few years, to raise taxes. That is the only revenue generation strategy they know. Someone conveyed to me the city even had a class of students at MUM, tweak the Master Plan. This city is one spinning, spinning, no traction, as its neighbors eat its lunch. And the losers are the residents. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 11:58am
| Look like old buildings, that includes crumbling streets/sewers ugly hookers, swap shops buy and sell gold shops, section 8 housing, empty lots,abandoned buIldings, a burned downed church that's still standing,high rate of crime, increase in heroin users. Oh our downtown is so close to fitting the model liberty twp.might get. Every day, week, year we continue not to address or show a campaign to occupy the east end with new business. Is there know one down at the plaza working on getting things moving???? Oh boy whens the next "First Friday" ? Can't wait !!!! |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 12:24pm
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NO LEADERSHIP.…NO VISION….NO PLAN….NO ACTION….EQUALS FAILURE |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 1:03pm
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Vivian, The city does have a vision, a plan and has acted on it. The problem is the leadership is lacking one important element: competence!!! If MMF is any example of the leadership skills in this town, it wouldn't matter not one iota whether they had a vision, plan or acted on it!!! Support, Acclaro brings up a valid point; where's the money to come from. It's not like developers are beating down the door to come to Middletown; it seems that every time a developer is interested, the city either nixes the plan or gives them free rein and a tax break. Those projects always seem to be non-profit or no risk, such as PAC. I also find it amazing that after crying about too much housing, the city will hold a public hearing to build more housing!!! Not to mention, you don't just build a downtown. You can build an area that looks like a downtown but that doesn't make it one. Branding or rebranding something doesn't make it so; calling fecal matter a rose doesn't change the smell!!! |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 4:45pm
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It will be difficult to get any more money out of the
citizens…and justifiably so. First, many just cannot afford it. Second, as Acclaro has pointed out, we already have one of
the highest tax rates in area, putting us at a competitive disadvantage in attracting
new businesses and residents. Third, and most important, the administration continually
fails to inform, under-informs, and even mis-informs the citizenry about nearly
every matter affecting the community. They
do everything possible to hide their intentions from the people and keep all
public business out of the public view. They constantly swing from
poor-mouthing and crying that we are going broke to squandering hundreds of
thousands of dollars (and more) on pet projects or funneling public funds to their cronies. Money is
continuously shuffled from account to account, in a high finance game of “hide
the weenie”. They simply prove over and over that they cannot be trusted. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 7:08pm
| Thank You Mr. P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and Acclaro who continues to break it down. Ms. Moon will you have any posters ready for sale on Monday? |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jan 28 2012 at 7:42pm
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Acclaro, I did not mention raising taxes in my post as they are high enough now. There are other ways to raise funds which may be inevitable. These funds should only be designated for infrastructer repairs.
Pacman |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 10:17am
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Pac, I have enormous respect for you and your positive spirit. However, on Middletown, and raising money to put into infrasture, it will never happen. Let me tell you why. Firstly, if your position is there should be no taxes raised, middletown has had in place for at least a year, a means where residents on a street can carry a 60% vote, and have the city pave the road, repair gutters, aprons, et al. So, that resolves the problem you reference by allowing citizens to amortize that expense over tim. To my knowledge few, if any, have taken advantage of that program. Secondly, in the event any money was dedicated, that was prpoed by councilman JL, and it failed by 6-1 I believe. Hence, that would never pass. Thirdly, I would never trust any funds in a tax or an accrued collection solely for roads, as the city would use those funds, and give a % to other areas of expenditures, just like the public safety levy. There is no means of accomplishing the goal you advance, and i, who sated for yers they should dedicate a % of funds to roads. JL tried that, and they told him to go pound sand, and pack his bags. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 4:20pm
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Wondering whatever happened to my online taunter Mtown Who called me a "liar" copncerning the facts/opinions that I posted over the multi-yrar and nulti-properties wrangling about the Duncan Oil project. Their current property sits empty with a "for sale" sign, and the asking price rumored to be $500,000. I believe that price to be more than they paid for the pieces when there were still existing businesses. The city still sits on the demo'ed and vacat site that was formerly Office Outfitters, for which the taxpayers paid Duncan $350,000 before demo costs(please correct me if I am wrong here). Plus purchasing the site of the former Clark gas station, which is now a city-maintained "green space".
Still wondering how much is tax $$ for property switches and admin man-hours were involved, with this all probably not over yet(at least I can't see the city ending the process looking like it does).
Wow--factor in the purchases of the former Happy Hobby House and the two already demo'ed parcels directly in front(next to the former Strand/Studio theater). Add in the Sonshine Building, the Manchester Inn, the two S Main former bank buildings, the former Masonic Temple, the former CG&E building, the former Swallens lot and potentially the Sorg Opera House(am I forgetting any place?), and "we" own a lot of dormant property in a very small very dormant part of the town.
So--what will we eventually recieve for our investment?
More demo costs?
More giveaways of purchased properties?
More MMF involvement?
When do you finally say "We are changing direction and focus to other municipal areas in need, who might offer an easier and faster turnaround to prosperity"?
The city operates like a stuck compact disc imo.
Maybe too many administrators involved who don't reside here, have never resided here, and are here Mondat-Friday(minus holidays and comp time) only for a paycheck and accrued pension time.
I dunno--maybe I am being too negative.
If you think so--tell me
Anyone else think that TV Middletown won't return live until AFTER Tuesday's Council session?
Come on Ann and Joe--rock the boat!!
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 4:50pm
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Spider |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 5:23pm
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Spider, I don't see either Ann or Joe rocking the boat; they were recruited to run to keep the boat steady and quiet. Your tally of buildings bought by the city is impressive and is again another example of the "half-a**ed, cart before the horse" mentality of development. Why should we wait for the train; let's just buy the buildings and hope!!! Why wait for Cincy State to decide what they want; let's just buy the buildings and hope!!! This city has a tremendous amount of money and time invested in hope!!! If Vivian's crystal ball is functioning, the city won't have businesses downtown, they'll OWN downtown!!! I can't see MMF receiving grants for any restoration considering the state of their finances; as in, no financial report in the last 6 years. Anyone at the Federal level who would approve a grant to these financial incompetents needs to either be fired or reassigned. When is the State Auditor going to step up and put a halt to this blatant disregard for the law!!! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 5:37pm
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Vivian...
Don't see how the MMF'ers are going to convince anyone that the Rose Furniture property, the Jobs and Fam. Services building, the property next to Hook Field, nor any of the banks from the Thatcher purchase fiasco as historic and fed grant qualified. Perhaps the Manchester, the Sorg Opera House, the Sorg Mansion and the old US Hotel may qualify. It is disgusting to see these people spend so much time, money and effort in a 3 block area of a dormant, desolate downtown area and have apparently abandoned the area around I-75, which is, of course, where the real growth is happening, judging by the activity up and down the corridor. The Austin Pike area north and the 129, Union Center area south, is evidence that this is the case, yet the morons running this town ignore the obvious, ignore the intelligent development of other communities, and are obsessed with an area 5-7 miles off the beaten path that is difficult and confusing to get to by out-of-towners. The town is being torn to pieces and sacrificed in the name of protecting the value of a few S. Main St. homeowners like Mulligan and Kohler. Spider, you mentioned that Mort and Joe Mulligan "rock the boat". Isn't it the general consensus that Mort and Joe Mulligan are friends of the MMF and were nothing more than additional council puppets that spoke when told to by their masters behind the curtain? We're not going to get them to do the right thing for this town. They, like Becker, Allen, Picard and, at times, Scott-Jones, are all bought and paid for. (yes, I said it, Ms. Scott-Jones.....sometimes you go right along with the crap the others are shoveling) JL is the ONLY one who puts up at least token resistance to this nonsense on a semi-consistent basis and even he votes on their side sometimes. Sad to see. No one for the people on a continual basis. No one. 
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 5:47pm
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TonyB....
"When is the State Auditor going to step up and put a halt to this blatant disregard for the law!!!" When someone gathers the information from these pages, picks up the telephone and talks to someone in the AG's office about the violations. I doubt if this city's legal violations are on their radar. Perhaps a little "nudging" from some citizens in the form of numerous calls to the AG may help. Again, maybe a call to the local TV stations may produce an audience that will include some AG folks who may act. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 7:05pm
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All the above actions will not save Their Downtown because
NO LEADERSHIP.…NO VISION….NO PLAN….NO FOCUS....NO ACTION…. STILL EQUALS FAILURE |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 8:25pm
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hey Ms.V--your version of "the plan" could be very close to reality. Doubt that these very well-connected high-roller mmf republicans(represented by Boehner) are sweating out any type of "investigation" by anyone appointed by Kasich.
Sonshine must come down
The old Monty Wards must come down
Shew and the realtors will roll over when the gun is to their heads
ACF is already being screwed out of the building that they have re-habbed so well
US Hotel Hope House Rose Furniture Hysterical bldng are all junkers that wouldn't be missed
3 corner former banks are iffy
Cincy St will take a while to fill the CGE, with plenty of room inside for coffee shop, restaurant, small retal, book store etc
western Cental etc is pretty much screwed, including Pendleton and Beau Verre
Neither draws enough SPENDING locals to make a dent
Spent the evening looking at pictures from the early 70s
particularly of my former location on S University and it's grand opening
This town has taken a lot of serious body shots since then
need to fix it and restore a higher level of community somehow
going to be hard with our current demographic mix
jmo
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Posted By: Talking Heads
Date Posted: Mar 27 2012 at 7:51pm
| If some of you had been in the buildings of downtown that you mention, had vision (and not just a mouthpiece) then perhaps you wouldn't be so quick to judge which are worth saving and which are not. Suggest you get out and be part of the solution and not the deterioration of Middletown and its entire community. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 27 2012 at 8:37pm
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It never ceases to amaze me how some folks define “having
vision” as “seeing things their way”!!! It never seems to occur to them that some people could
simply have a “vision” different from theirs. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 27 2012 at 9:10pm
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Mr. P, I think they like to call that "having the same vision". The problem seems to be that their vision is a little fuzzy on details, like: who's going to pay for it and how it advances the community. The devil is always in the details! |
Posted By: thoroughman
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 1:00am
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I think we need to do performance based pay on our leaders! ------------- Jesus move in our city like never before seen! |
Posted By: thoroughman
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 1:02am
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Why should a "leader" make over $100,000.00 while we lose firemen and cops and our city goes down hill. Also, why do we pay so much to our leaders when we are such a small city? ------------- Jesus move in our city like never before seen! |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 9:45am
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http://youtu.be/AWtCittJyr0 - http://youtu.be/AWtCittJyr0
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 2:04pm
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Hey talking head:
Since your post directly followed my post, I'll assume that you are referring to me. Rest assured that I have been inside pretty much every business property in this city numerous times, and over decades. |
Posted By: Talking Heads
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 2:43pm
| Excellent, Spider. I congratulate you. Others should also see interiors prior to making broad statements of demolition or the buildings' worth/potential. Not calling vision "having the same" but each has their own vision and if some on this post have vision, then do something about it. Wish some that have such negative opinions of downtown/the city would get together, pull resources and invest in the vision that could be created into something positive rather than negative talk. All seem intelligent people, with some qualified opinions and facts. Perhaps this new Downtown Inc. has creativity and stamina. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Mar 28 2012 at 2:57pm
| " Part of the solution ". Was taught to saying nothing if it wasn't nice or helped solve a problem. Any time you like to tell me your solutions please have at it. This will come off like a third grader but if you like to compare time cards for volunteering please send me a private message so you can enlighten me on how to get involved. What a joke!! Again are the drug stores in town closing early, must be cause some folks aren't getting their meds. |
Posted By: Talking Heads
Date Posted: Mar 29 2012 at 12:19am
| GS, if you are referring to the TH post above calling for action, it was not a joke. It was complimentary to some and did offer a solution. Provided an opinion/suggestion - as most do on this site - about and for those who seem fed up with the past, current, and potential future of Middletown to take collective action. This could result in a formidable plan for the city that provides increased opportunities for the livelihoods of residents and businesses. I'm certain some bloggers do much volunteer work and strive to bring stability to Middletown. Reverse what V. Moon stated as what leads to failure and you have the foundation for success. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 29 2012 at 6:14am
Talking.....I applaud your suggestion about taking action concerning the future of Middletown. On several occasions in the past, attempts have been made to organize and throw some resistance toward the current regime and changing the current direction and priorities of this city. Unfortunately, the attempt at the old Montgomery Ward building on University and the attempt at the Library died as a result of the apathy found in most of this town. Couldn't get anyone to show up in any numbers to make it worth while. Perhaps you could suggest an approach that you think might work to stimulate the people enough that they would show in numbers to any meeting? |
Talking Heads wrote:Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 29 2012 at 8:15am
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Vet, I have a suggestion for an approach that might stimulate enough people to show up to meetings. do what the minutemen did to get their volunteer militia to show up: offer free beer after the meeting!!! Of course, then you get into the whole, how do we get everybody home, but I'd be willing to bet attendance at the meetings would improve!!!  |