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School Replacement / Levy

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: School Tax Issues
Forum Description: Discuss past, current and upcoming tax issues.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4855
Printed Date: Aug 24 2019 at 4:22pm


Topic: School Replacement / Levy
Posted By: 409
Subject: School Replacement / Levy
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 9:39am
From MJ:
District mulls May ballot initiative to replace oldest school

By http://www.daytondailynews.com/staff/john-bombatch/ - Middletown City Schools officials say they might not wait for millions of dollars in state funding to come through before moving ahead with a plan to construct a new middle school in the East End.

And a tax levy to help pay for it might not be too far away.

Replacing Middletown Middle School, the oldest building in the district, is a top priority for the Middletown Board of Education, Superintendent Greg Rasmussen said this week. The district had planned to use about $40 million from the Ohio School Facilities Commission to help defray the cost of an estimated $56 million to $66 million project that would build a new middle school and renovate the existing Middletown High School.

School officials originally thought those funds might be available in two years, but recently learned it could be as many as three to five years before the money becomes available. Rasmussen said some district officials feel that’s too long to wait to replace the crumbling, 89-year-old middle school at 1415 Girard Ave.

School board members “would like to explore the possibilities of getting one sooner,” Rasmussen said.

District business manager George Long said the board of education is considering placing an initiative on the May ballot, but stressed nothing has been decided. He said the deadline for placing a measure on the May ballot isn’t until February.

“This was discussed at the Oct. 8 and 22 meetings,” Long said. “A final decision to have a May bond levy will be made in January 2013. If they move forward with that initiative, the new middle school will open for the fall of 2015.”

And for some students, teachers and administrators who walk the halls of Middletown Middle School every day, the new building can’t go up fast enough. Crumbling stairways, bathroom stalls without doors and cafeteria tables with no chairs are all signs of the former Vail Middle School showing its age. Teachers say it’s about more than merely being inconvenienced; these problems often result in classroom disruptions.

Emily Donner, a seventh grade language arts teacher, said most classrooms have modernized door locks, but others still require skeleton keys. Donner said she recently had a skeleton key break in half when she tried to use it because it was so old.

Sher said she probably spends 30 minutes every school day adjusting the room temperature to keep students comfortable. For a 180-day school year, that’s 90 hours that could be used for classroom instruction.

“If you went into my room right now with all the windows closed, it would probably be about 100 degrees in there,” Donner said. “So you have to play this game between the windows being open, then everybody gets cold, then you have to shut them to heat things back up again. You have to time it just right all day, and that takes up your time too.”

Eighth-grader Luke Farrell agrees. “In every single room, teachers have portable air conditioners in their window, and they bring fans from their homes,” he said.

Seventh-grader Chloe Pruett said the stairs in the building “are really old and they’re falling apart. I fell one time and it really hurt.”

Gracie Pruett, an eighth-grader, said one time she fell off of a chair that had a loose seat, and it was just placed back on its pedestal for someone else to fall off of later.

Parent Lamar Ferrell has a child who requires a wheelchair to get around. He and special education teacher Kathy Wilson both noted that the present middle school is not wheelchair friendly. Wilson noted that the limited parking presents issues for the handicapped as well.

But convincing recession-weary taxpayers in Middletown to support another levy could be a tall order. Voters gave a lift to the Middletown Senior Center by approving a 5-year, 1-mill property tax levy Nov. 6, that will cost the owner of a $100,000 home $30.60 a year, or $153.15 over the life the the levy.

But voters in the Middletown-Dayton area were not so kind to school levies asking for new money last Tuesday, rejecting 11 out of 12 such issues. Statewide, the numbers were better with 55 percent of school tax issues gaining voter approval last Tuesday, including 45 seeking new money.

Rasmussen said the board has asked Long to look further into the middle school construction. He said a lot of questions still remain.

“What would it cost? What components would it take? How would (the middle school construction) impact our state money down the road? Do we wait 6-7 years, or not? Do we break up the plan into two phases or just keep it as one? Those are the kinds of questions that the board has asked George to look into,” Rasmussen said. “That’s really where we are now.”

Long said some preliminary studies on constructing a new middle school were done during a four-month community engagement process that ended in April. But Long said now school officials are doing a more detailed analysis, so school board members can make the most informed decision possible come January about how to proceed.

“We still do not have a definitive answer on when the remaining approximately $40 million (from the Ohio School Facilities Commission) will become available,” Long said. “At some point between now and when those $40 million dollars become available, Middletown will have to make a decision.

“If they want that $40 million dollars, they are going to have to provide the remainder of the local share of those funds,” he said. “Part of what we’re in the process of doing is updating our master facilities plan with the state to quantify that.”

Phase 1 of the district’s master building plan was funded by a Nov. 2003 bond issue and resulted in the construction of six new elementary schools and the renovation of two existing elementary schools.

Phase 2 was originally intended to address secondary school enrollment, but due to changes since the original 2003 plan was created, the second phase of the building plan was altered and reconfigured to become the current overall master plan.




Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 10:38am
HELL NO!!!! REMEMBER THE 45 MIL BOND WE PASSED FOR THEM FOR THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS? REMEMBER PRICE AND CREW SAYING THAT THE NEW SCHOOLS WOULD IMPROVE PERFORMANCE AND TEST SCORES? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THOSE CLAIMS? WAS IT WORTH THE 45 MIL FOR NEW SCHOOLS COMPARED TO THE PERFORMANCE WE RECEIVED AND HAS BEEN REPORTED? YOU DECIDE IF IT WAS A GOOD DEAL FOR THE TAXPAYING PUBLIC. DON'T THINK SO.

MERCY SCHOOL PEOPLE. THE ECONOMY IS STILL IN RECESSIONARY MODE. PEOPLE WITHOUT JOBS FOR MONTHS....YEARS. NO GOOD JOBS TO BE HAD IN THIS TOWN. PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THE HIGHER GROCERY PRICES AND GAS THAT FLUCTUATES ALMOST DAILY. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU PROPOSE A DAM LEVY AT THIS TIME? VERY POOR TIMING ON YOUR PART........KINDA SELFISH ON YOUR PART TO CONSIDER THIS GIVEN THE FACT THIS IS A POOR COMMUNITY MADE SO BY THE LEADERS AND THE ECONOMY. ALOT OF SENIORS ON FIXED INCOMES LIVING HERE TOO. THEY CAN'T AFFORD THIS. NEED TO LEARN WHEN TO BACK OFF.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 10:56am
Middletown needs to rebrand its name to reflect its corruption values and dishonesty. It's not Brighter Future, it's The Big Easy. The Mulligan's, Picard, and Becker lay asphalt for getting the voting blocks out, and Smith and Jones secure help in urban Development making good Cincinnati State the gem of downtown, led by a small,niche stained glass team, and Main Street securing a bright future for their properties, while others are neglected, the Big Easy of cramming get tax levies through at a minimum of 60 percent, is a piece of cake, aka, the Big Easy.

All through the last week of the election in November, the city fire trucks were at the Sr Citizen Ctr, strategizing to rack up a win Obama style.

The Big Easy is so easy, in spite of continued horrific school performance and singing the praises of Dr. Price, the school board and lifers are ready to fire up building the middle school. Heck, it's so Big Easy, why wait!

Middletown is run and ruined by a few passing deals and favors back and forth, to get their votes. I know one council members who took care of the Milton Street area, making road repairs around that area. The extra money for asphalt for 2 Mm paying back certain areas that carried the public safety levies.

For fools who think Landen is trying go save money for allowing police and fire fighters to sell, cash out is the proper terminology
to save overtime, that is an enormous benefit of a cash advance, a reward for passing the domino levies.

Tee up the health levy again, The Big Easy tax passage of 60-75 is just damn easy with this council.

I recommend Wetherington in West Chester for those that are sick of paying Connecticut or California taxes in a city offering nothing.

City Manager getting a raise for development of downtown. Laughable. She raises the bar for others wanting raises and padding their wallets while executing what the Mulligans, Picard, and Becker told her to do, in conjunction with the Moorman 's.

The Big Easy, the city rolling over its people to drive up taxes all which make it impossible go sell property, is too easy, and based upon favors, and quid products quo. And the tragedy is no one cares.

What poor leadership, what a flock of sheep that follow.

It's not a successful formula, but one that won't change, and discourages outsiders to ever make Middletown their home. Only in Middletown is failed leadership rewarded.

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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: digger-2
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 1:28pm
A nation of fools.
 
A nation of sheep.
 
Hussein Obama is Santa Claus.
 
What does it all mean?


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 1:34pm
what does it all mean when our corrupt politicians will stop at nothing to be elected even if it means sending america to third world status?
 

Momentum builds for U.S. immigration reform plan

By Will Dunham | Reuters1 hr 10 mins ago
 

(Reuters) - Two U.S. senators launched a fresh move to put together a bipartisan immigration reform plan on Sunday, restarting talks on a proposal that includes a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already in the country.

Since President Barack Obama was re-elected last week with overwhelming support from Hispanic voters, many Republicans have expressed a new willingness to work with Democrats to pass immigration reform after years of legislative inaction.

Appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press," Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said he and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham have agreed to resume talks on immigration reform that broke off two years ago.

"And I think we have a darned good chance using this blueprint to get something done this year. The Republican Party has learned that being ... anti-immigrant doesn't work for them politically. And they know it," Schumer said.

Obama in 2010 called the proposal backed by Graham and Schumer a "promising framework," but it made no headway.

There are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States, most of them Hispanics.

Speaking on the CBS program "Face the Nation," Graham said the tone and rhetoric used by members of his party on immigration "built a wall between the Republican Party and the Hispanic community."

He noted that Republican presidential candidates have been steadily losing the support of Hispanic voters since 2004.

"This is an odd formula for a party to adopt: the fastest-growing demographic in the country, and we're losing votes every election cycle. And it has to stop. It's one thing to shoot yourself in the foot. Just don't reload the gun. ... I intend to tear this wall down and pass an immigration reform bill that's an American solution to an American problem," Graham said.

PATH TO CITIZENSHIP

The Graham and Schumer plan has four components: requiring high-tech, fraud-proof Social Security cards to ensure that illegal workers cannot get jobs; strengthening border security and enforcement of immigration laws; creating a process for admitting temporary workers; and implementing a path to legal status for immigrants already in the country.

Schumer said the plan embraces "a path to citizenship that's fair, which says you have to learn English, you have to go to the back of the line, you've got to have a job, and you can't commit crimes."

Graham added, "Sixty-five percent of the people in the exit poll of this election supported a pathway to citizenship."

Many Republican leaders have taken a hard position against illegal immigrants. Obama's unsuccessful Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, during the campaign advocated "self-deportation" of illegal immigrants. Republicans in Arizona and other states have passed tough laws cracking down on illegal immigrants.

Since the election, some influential conservative voices, including television commentator Sean Hannity, have announced support for immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants with no criminal record.

"We have nobody to blame but ourselves when it comes to losing Hispanics, and we can get them back with some effort on our part," Graham said.

House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, said on Friday the U.S. immigration system is broken. He has expressed confidence Republicans could find common ground with Obama.

The Obama administration announced in June it would relax U.S. deportation rules so that many young illegal immigrants who came to the United States as children can stay and work. The change would allow illegal immigrants who, among other criteria, are younger than 30 years old and have not been convicted of a felony to apply for work permits.

(Editing by Doina Chiacu)

http://news.yahoo.com/senators-restart-talks-us-immigration-reform-plan-153200663.html - http://news.yahoo.com/senators-restart-talks-us-immigration-reform-plan-153200663.html  


Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 9:58pm
Good Schools and New facilities are a prime attraction for new middle class residents to a city.   Personally I do not think it is a Senior Citizen Center that only attracts 1200 paying member a year. 

This is exactly what I was talking about early when I referring to "We Gotta have the Senior center Levy", then when the School Levy comes around it's "Screw the School Levy", "Screw the Schools", "Screw the Kids". 

This makes no sense if you want Middletown to come into the 21st century.  Middletown has a very distinct popluation breakdow: 1.) high popluation of poor who can not afford to leave the city. 2.) middle income who can not leave the city because of their residence. 3.) There are some people actually choose to live here (why? not sure ) 4.) Senior Citizens who will never leave.  These people never come together as a group to improve the city.  They just worry about their own little world.

PacmanCool



Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 10:13pm
Unreal to think how many people voted for the Senior Center levy while having no real idea why.  Did these people understand it was NOT to keep the center in business but rather to pay off a bloated mortgage they couldn't afford?  How many of these voters even use or will ever use the center? 
 
Old saying about Grand Juries is that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich.  In Middletown, a pig levy would pass 65/35.


Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Nov 11 2012 at 11:49pm
21st century? We will soon be living in the 18th/19th century if we listen to the greedy people who run the city and school system while they live high and mighty on our money.
You need a new middle school, what was wrong with Verity middle school?
The kid's grades are suffering because of poor condition of the present school,who are you trying to con? this school system ranks in the near bottom of all schools systems in Ohio and has been there for a long time.


Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Nov 12 2012 at 1:16am
The article cites extremely anecdotal reasons to replace Vail.
Would the new middle school be built on the old Verity site?
 


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 12 2012 at 8:31am
Pac:

"Good Schools and New facilities are a prime attraction for new middle class residents to a city."

PAC, WE COULD HAVE A SCHOOL SYSTEM THE QUALITY OF ROSS, LAKOTA AND SPRINGBORO ALL ROLLED INTO ONE, BUT THE WAY THIS TOWN IS RUN AND THE REPUTATION IT HAS WOULD OVERSHADOW EVEN THE BEST SCHOOL SYSTEM IMO.

"This is exactly what I was talking about early when I referring to "We Gotta have the Senior center Levy", then when the School Levy comes around it's "Screw the School Levy", "Screw the Schools", "Screw the Kids". "

NO PAC, NOT SCREW THE KIDS......SCREW THE FACT THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN VERY LITTLE FOR ALL THE LEVIES WE HAVE PASSED FOR THEM. GOTTEN VERY LITTLE FOR THE 45 MIL BOND LEVY WE APPROVED TO BUILD NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REAL PROGRESS IN UPWARD TREND SINCE THE SCHOOLS WENT FROM ACADEMIC WATCH TO CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, WHAT, A DECADE AGO?THEY ARE TREADING WATER AND FAR FROM LEARNING TO SWIM.

DO YOU (OR ANY ONE ELSE) FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE MONEY YOU HAVE PUT INTO THIS DISTRICT AND THE ROI? IF THIS SCHOOL SYSTEM WERE A STOCK IN YOUR PORTFOLIO, YOU WOULD HAVE DUMPED IT YEARS AGO FOR LACK OF PERFORMANCE. YA JUST CAN'T KEEP THROWING MONEY DOWN THE BLACK HOLE OF COMPLACENCY CAN YOU? THIS DISTRICT IS STAGNATED AND THE GEAR IS STUCK IN SECOND. IT WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANCE OF IMPROVING UNTIL THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE PROGRAM STOP COMING UP WITH "GIMMICK" PROGRAMS AND ACTUALLY ATTACK THE ISSUES AND MAKE WHOLESALE CHANGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING. THE FIGHTER CAN JAB ALL DAY, BUT IT IS THE KNOCKOUT PUNCH THAT SENDS THE ISSUES TO THE CANVASS.

THAT IS WHY I DON'T VOTE FOR LEVIES.....IT'S THE SAME OLD SAME OLD WHEN THEY GET THEIR MONEY...NO REAL EYE-OPENING IMPROVEMENTS FOR YEARS-STILL AT THE BOTTOM-STILL THE SAME NUMBER OF INDICATORS NOT MET-STILL NOT A QUALITY DISTRICT AFTER THREE DECADES...AND WE HAVE HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY. HOW MUCH TIME DO THEY NEED TO BRING IT BACK AGAIN? JMO

NOW, AS TO THE SENIORS LEVY. MY WIFE AND I VOTED FOR IT FOR SELFISH REASONS. WE USE THE HANDICAPPED VAN AND THE MEALS ON WHEELS. WE FELT WE "GAVE BACK" A LITTLE BY DOING SO. IT WAS A CATCH 22 FOR US. VOTED YES TO KEEP THE SERVICES GOING, BUT WOULD HAVE VOTED NO TO HELP THEM PAY OFF A BLOATED, POORLY PLANNED EXECUTION IN BUILDING THE CENTER. AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH THOSE WHO ARE ANGRY ABOUT THE PASSAGE TO HELP PAY OFF THE MORTGAGE.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Nov 12 2012 at 4:05pm
I never fell for the Steve Prices 'Our Standing Will Go Through The Roof If We get New Schools" Gimmick.  However I do firmly believe that New Schools make a good immpression when people are selecting a place to live.  I do not believe that a Senior Center Levy to pay down the mortgage with only 1200 members out of Seniors is a good and wise investment.

It is the crying about "NO Levy's for new schools", yet we give "Levy's for Senior Center's" that will doom this city.  Most of the citizens of this city only care about what effects them personally. There is no organization or groups of citizens interested in making any change that would make this city more desirable for MIDDLE INCOME RESIDENTS TO MOVE TO.

PacmanCool


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 9:25am
How much would it cost just to remodel and bring the school up to code instead of building a new School? That's is what Springboro did with Springboro Intermediate School which the main part of it was built in 1903. That to me would be a lot easier and cheaper than building a new school.

Or possibly add on to the existing schools to make room for those students.


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:06am
ktf, the school district has a facilities commitee, that includes community members and an architectural firm, that explored the questions you ask. There were discussion threads about it last spring, including posts by some of the community members on that committee including Mike Presta, who attended meetings. To remodel Vail to meet current Ohio School Facilities Standards would be more expensive than building new. To remodel/renovate Verity and build an addition (Verity is much smaller than Vail and not big enough to serve as the sole middle school) was not cost effective either. However, the committee did recommend that we renovate/remodel the high school instead of building new and the school board adopted that recommendation to change our master plan, which had originally called for both new high school and new middle school.
 
I was not on the school board the last bond levy and don't remember to what extent the levy was sold as new buildings will result in increased test scores (although I don't think it was ever said quite that way; better and more modern facilities would be one factor in student achievement, but not the only factor). However, the second half of the new/renovated elementary schools were completed for the 2008-09 school year. The district's Performance Index score has gone up every year since then from 2008 to 2012.
 
Personally, speaking for myself, I would never promise you that a new middle school will cause increased test scores. However, I agree with Pacman that we won't attract new middle class families to town and to our school system with the Vail building.  And a dilapidated building with poorly regulated heating and no air conditioning is certainly one factor that would depress efforts and expectations of both students and teachers in the building.
 
If the school board decides to put a bond levy on the ballot, the voters will decide whether the community needs and can afford a new middle school -- not the school board. As foreign as it may sound to some on this site, many people in town want a new school.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:16am
I sure in the hell dont want to pay for another school.Put the levy on the ballot and it will be defeated.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 11:47am
Ms. Andrew:

"I was not on the school board the last bond levy and don't remember to what extent the levy was sold as new buildings will result in increased test scores (although I don't think it was ever said quite that way; better and more modern facilities would be one factor in student achievement, but not the only factor"

Some very capable researchers on this site (Mike P. or Vivian- others?)(I'm not worth a crap on doing this) want to dig out the selling points from Price to sell the community on voting for the 45 mil levy for new elementary schools? Would that be in the Journal archives, say, 5+ years ago maybe????? Don't remember when the new elementaries were built. Wouldn't surprise me that there would be some comment about "increasing student performance" if new schools were built from Price. It would be nice to show Ms. Andrew how Price approached the voters on selling points.

Ms. Andrew:

"However, I agree with Pacman that we won't attract new middle class families to town and to our school system with the Vail building. And a dilapidated building with poorly regulated heating and no air conditioning is certainly one factor that would depress efforts and expectations of both students and teachers in the building."

Maybe so Ms. Andrew, but you're also not going to attract new middle class people to Middletown when they see the test scores, hear about the reputation, see the indicator level achievement and see how long Middletown has been languishing in the bottom tier either. Some people think a quality education trumps fancy buildings and you can receive that quality education in an antiquated building. You can knock down the old buildings and build new schools to look appeasing, but it's just window dressing when one finds out what results come out of those spiffy new buildings. Content, Ms. Andrew, not surface fluff. JMO

Ms. Andrew:

"As foreign as it may sound to some on this site, many people in town want a new school".

Then those same people have not bothered to check out what their money has gotten them. Was the 45 mil worth it when considering the results to date? New schools, as has been proven so far, does not yield eye-opening results and does not necessarily make one eager to let go of more money to support more of what has yet to be a good ROI. How much longer do we give it? 5.....10 more years?

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 12:30pm
"If you vote for a School Levy, You're Stupid!" Daryl Parks 700 WLW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhAeyuLovtk




Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 12:45pm
Respectfully Ms. Andrew, you are completely wrong. Many do not want a new school, many want results. Many formed a voting block with the Senior Citizen Center to pay for the equity gain from the old John XXIII building to be used for Fenwick move. In turn, the school gets its turn, after it helped pass the public safety levy.

Raising taxes will stymied influx of student demand for, not support nor increase it. But that fact has no import. The same idiocy as before; build it and they will come. Wrong people running city into ground over and over.

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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 2:44pm
Please let me remind you that it was Dr. Price and City Hall that wanted more Section 8 in the Middletown area so they could increase the population of the city and the number of children in the Middletown School District.
So we built the new schools. They also got more goverment money for low income students.
Now we are being told that Mr. Adkins wants to remove 1,000 vouchers from the Section 8 program. That will equal about 2,000 students being removed from the local school system over the next few years.
He also wants to demo about 3,000 properties and that will remove thoundands of tax dollars from our school system.
How many dollars in property taxes has the school lost with City Hall purchase of the Thatcher property downtown? You would be SHOCKED to know the answer to this question.
How will we fill all the new schools we just built?
Yes sir this has been a really great plan for our community....


Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 9:20pm
Vail is likely one of the oldest (or the oldest?) operating school in Butler County. I believe Ms. Andrews when she says there is a lot of support for a new school. It is unfortunate the OSFC monies are not available as they were for Hamilton and many other districts. Hamilton's $200 M school rebuild/renovation was 59% funded by the OSFC.


Posted By: digger-2
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 10:37pm
Vivian -
 
Perhaps someone could tutor Mr. Atkins on community development cost/benefit analysis principles.  What will the negotive economic impact be to houses he does not demolish?  Does he have a clue?  Does it matter to this stalwart Mason resident?


Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Nov 13 2012 at 11:22pm
All you have to do is read this one topic to see where Middletown is headed.  Of all the posts in this one topic everyone has a different idea of how to save Middletown.  Some say keep section 8, some say we need a palace for a senior center, some say we don't need a new Middle School Or High School, others say if you vote for a new school you're stupid.  I must really be stupid because I believe we new 2 new schools (a high school and a middle school).  This town is so disfunctional that from the poverty group, the middle income, to the wealthiest absolutely no one can get off their asses to come together to improve the city.  Everyone just sits around and worries about their own little problems.  You can't get enough people together to decide what time of day it is.  How do you people every plan to make changes in this city?  It is utterly ridculous that the citizens of the city can not take even the top 5 issues and come together as a group and fix each one, one at at time.

It is pathetic.

PacmanCool


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 7:31am
Vail has to go--there is no real fix
Wade E goes with it
No other way
Verity site is the chosen location
New high school is off the table fior now I believe
Can't see new students coming in to Middletown, probably the opposite
 
With govt taxes set to rise drastically, levys are shaky
I can't support a school levy at this time, though I believe in the current school administration
City govt?
That is another story


Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 8:17am
City government could go a long way toward helping reduce costs by allowing the school district to rent their office space in the city building for $1. It's not like they haven't given away anything recently and it would help the school district lower costs. As for a new building, the Vail building was old and in need of replacement back in the last century when I went there (the decade is unimportant here, lol). While the area still lags in test score performance, they are improving and continued improvement would help in passing a levy. That being said, it really comes down to a matter of making the investment in a future that some residents may never see or continuing down the spiral of decay that has engulfed the city since I went to Middletown Freshman High (that gives you a clue how long ago). It will be interesting to see what happens.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 9:23am
Here's a idea,How about looking into year round school?


Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 9:27am
I think year round school is a viable option!


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 14 2012 at 11:32am
TonyB!

"While the area still lags in test score performance, they are improving and continued improvement would help in passing a levy"

Tony, I'll ask you the question I ask everyone who sees and admits that the test scores have languished in the abyss, the indicators, by Ms. Andrew's own admission have reduced in number from the 10 of 26 they had at one time to 6(?) of 26, and, as we keep passing levies, albeit after the second and third time of cramming it down our throats, why on earth would people look the other way and suggest they are improving and "with continued improvement would help a levy pass?"

Everyone has seen the test scores for a least a decade. Everyone has not seen any significant improvement coming out of the new elementaries that were built years ago. Everyone sees the reduction in indicators met. Everyone sees that the schools have not moved from continuous improvement for a decade or more. Yet, we have comments that suggest that if we just do a little bit more for them in support through levy approvals, things might change. Where is the evidence that will happen? Haven't we thrown enough money down the perverbial black hole of "just one more time and maybe they will improve" to conclude that they might always be stuck at continuous improvement and we are wasting money by approving their levies? I'll ask you what I ask Ms. Andrew......how much more time (and money) do we give it before we decide to pull the plug and feel there is no more value added benefits? I say 2 or 3 decades is enough time to improve. JMO

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 9:47am
Vivian, please provide any evidence you have to support your statement that Dr. Price wanted more Section 8 in the City. Despite some weaknesses, Dr. Price is a very smart guy who knows better than most the challenges of teaching kids from low socio-economic backgrounds, and that more students from these households would depress test scores for the district (on which he was judged). I find it very hard to believe that he would have encouraged the City to increase Section 8 housing. Also, my understanding is that City Council members who presided during the time that vouchers were dramatically increased did not even realize what was happening or the long term consequences. If that is the case, how do you claim that the school superintendent knew what was happening, let alone promoted it? City government is separate from the schools.
 
Support Middletown, the percentage amount of the state matching funds was determined by the OSFC at the beginning of Middletown's master plan before the bond levy for the first phase (the elementary schools). The percentage of the total cost that the state will pay is different for each district and was determined based on the "property wealth" or real estate tax base, of the district. At the time the calculation was done, property wealth included the tax base for both real property and business tangible property (equipment and inventory) that was subject to real estate taxes. Middletown was considered a high property wealth district due to its industrial base, primarily AK Steel. Based on this, the state assigned us 26% (I think that is right--I may be off a few percentage points) as the amount the state would pay. Subsequent to this determination, the state legislature revamped the tax structure for businesses, eliminating real estate taxes for business tangible property and putting in place a Commercial Activity Tax for business income. The net result for businesses may or may not be a wash, I don't know, but the net result for schools and others that rely on property tax revenue was a substantial reduction in revenue (the Commercial Activity Tax revenue goes to the state general fund). We have worked with our state representative, Tim Derickson, to amend the law to allow for Middletown and a few other districts in a similar situation to have their state match percentage recalculated based on the current "property wealth" of the district, without the ability to tax equipment and inventory. Twice the legislature has passed a provision to correct the unequitable situation, and twice Governor Kasich has rejected it with a line item veto.


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 10:01am
LMAO,
 
What do you mean by year round school? Do you mean a calendar that would result in an increased number of days in school, or do you mean a calendar that just spreads the same number of school days more evenly over the calendar?
 
There is some evidence that increasing the number of school days would result in increased student learning and performance on standardized tests. There are a lot of positives to this idea of having kids in school longer. The benefits are especially great for students whose home life is not enriching or worse, is detrimental to their learning and character development. The main negative is the cost; teachers are paid based on the current calendar and can not be expected to work additional weeks for no additional pay. It is part of the contracts and would have to be negotiated. As personnel expenses are roughly 70% of any district's budget, you are talking about a large increase in costs. Let me know what you think, do you think taxpayers would support a new operating levy specifically to pay for more days in school?
 
As for spreading the same number of school days more evenly over the calendar, the results from districts that have done it are mixed. The rationale is that during long times away from school, kids forget what they have learned, and so they will remember more and need less time on review and repetition if the breaks are shorter. But the evidence does not really support this assumption.
 
A secondary concern with both ideas is resistance from parents and students who are used to the current school year calendar and want a long summer off for family time, sports, student jobs, etc.
 
I do not see a connection to the school facilities issue.
 
Thanks for raising the subject.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 10:20am
Multitrack

A multitrack schedule divides students into multiple tracks so that one group goes to school while another group takes vacation.



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 11:38am
Ms. Andrew:

"The main negative is the cost; teachers are paid based on the current calendar and can not be expected to work additional weeks for no additional pay. It is part of the contracts and would have to be negotiated"

WHAT???? Teachers are salaried and are exempt aren't they? Do they not negotiate a SALARIED/EXEMPT contract periodically? If so, the exempt status means that they are NOT paid for extra hours worked JUST AS A MANAGER. ENGINEER, VP OR PRESIDENT EXPERIENCES IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY. IT IS PART OF THE JOB IN THE EXEMPT CATEGORY IN EXCHANGE FOR THE LARGER SALARY OFFERED VERSUS NON-EXEMPT SALARIES, WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO COLLECT OVERTIME PAY.

SOOOO.....TEACHERS CAN BE ASKED TO WORK MORE HOURS FOR THE SAME SALARY THEY AGREED TO IN THE CONTRACT TALKS. THEY ARE EXEMPT AND SHOULD RECEIVE NO OVERTIME PAY. SAME WITH PRINCIPALS, THE SUPER, ETC. THEY ARE NOT BEING SINGLED OUT HERE AS MANY EXEMPT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT THESE CONDITIONS.

THERE SHOULD BE NO LEVY FOR THIS AS THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SHOULD INCUR NO ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR THE OVERTIME HOURS WORKED. IF THE TEACHERS THINK THEY ARE GETTING THE SHAFT, LET THEM NEGOTIATE THE ISSUE AT BARGAINING TIME NEXT GO-AROUND. WHY DO THESE PEOPLE LIVE BY DIFFERENT RULES THAN 90% OF THE NON-ACADEMIC WORLD MUST DO? WHAT IS SO SPECIAL THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE INDIVIDUALIZED COTTLING?

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Jameshh
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 12:36pm
Can you handle the rule truth? I have served on the facilities committee for over 15 years and have been in all the buildings and not just the front office. We truly do need to replace the middle school building as it is a broken building. It is not up to codes for handicap students, has poor lighting, poor plumbing, VERY poor heating system and NO air conditioning. This building I know is a sacred cow in the district but it is also a cash cow! Our children and teachers cannot perform at levels they are capable when dealing with the environment we have stuck them in.

The rule truth of why are scores are not high though is we have VERY high numbers of kids on free and reduced lunches and a lot of parents that just don't care! This can be a great district and has produced several great students but ALL parents have to have a greater involment in their child's life and several parents need to quit thinking their little brats can do no wrong. All you negative pukers on here should go visit our middle schools for several days and see what the staff goes thru with some of our kids and parents or let me say lack of real parenting and then you will have a much better understanding of why the scores are where they are. It only take one rotten apple to ruin a whole bushel so yes it's true that we are so very close to achieving that next level.

FYI, I am not a teacher but an involved parent of former great Middie students and a spouse of a current staff member (not a teacher).




Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 1:04pm
Vet, I am well aware of salaried/exempt status in the private sector. I work as a professional in a field where you are expected to work as many hours as it takes to get your work done to very high expectations, for an annual salary. Although teachers are professionals, they are subject to a very different set of rules because they are unionized, and they are public employees so there are state laws regulating many work/benefit conditions. The bottom line is that the contract between the teachers union and the school district sets out how many working days per year, and how many hours per day with students and without we may require teachers to work. Some teachers won't stay a minute longer for a meeting; others come early and stay late and ask for more time to collaborate with other teachers and administrators. We cannot make any unilateral changes on the number of school days in the year. You are right that if they don't like it they can leave, and wouldn't you leave to go to another employer that offers the same or more pay for x number of weeks less work? Unless every other district in the area decided at the same time to add weeks of school for no additional pay, we would have no teachers left.


Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 1:34pm
LMAO, thank you for your clarification, I was taking a different meaning from your suggestion of year round school. So, are you suggesting that Verity would be big enough if the students were on a split/dual track schedule?
 
I think the dual track would still be more expensive, because it would require the teachers and other staff to work year round? A new building is a one-time expense, whereas a payroll increase repeats each year, so there would need to be a detailed financial analysis to determine cost/benefit of that approach. Also, Verity would need extensive renovations to come up to the current OSFC standards.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 15 2012 at 1:47pm
Ms. Andrew:
"The bottom line is that the contract between the teachers union and the school district sets out how many working days per year, and how many hours per day with students and without we may require teachers to work"

Precisely Ms. Andrew. And how do you think this relationship between the teachers and the school board got to this point where they are telling YOU the way it will be? Your board and those before you gave in to their demands and your board and those that came before you backed down to keep them in place. Intimidation. Collective bargaining and contract negotiations appear to be one-sided, with them winning each time and the taxpauyer getting the shaft.

Ms. Andrew:

"Unless every other district in the area decided at the same time to add weeks of school for no additional pay, we would have no teachers left"

All unions can be busted if they are unreasonable. Unreasonable/overdemanding unions are shoved out the door all the time and replaced by non-union workers, doing the same jobs with less bennies and a lower pay rate. Could be done with the teachers union too. Just would take that one district that says we've had enough. Sure you would have teachers left. How about ex-military, retired managers looking for some day time hours to fill. Alot of college educated people being released from employment everyday in the private sector that, with a teaching license, could fill the departing union teachers position. New college grads in education every year. Why does a district have to be unionized? Do ALL public employees have to be unionized? Would take some time to put into place but not out of the question. You could get rid of overdemanding teacher's union people. If the private world can do it, the academic world could also.

Ms. Andrew:

"and wouldn't you leave to go to another employer that offers the same or more pay for x number of weeks less work?"

Ms. Andrew, I have worked for 44 years with 8 different employers from large companies like P&G and International Paper to small companies like Neaton Auto Products and Crane Plastics. I left some for more money, management was intolerable, or to get away from shift work, but never for "less days worked". All about the same weekly work hours, even the ones where I worked shift work. No. I left most because of poor management practices and the worker/manager relationships that don't pan out alot of times. On occasion, the working environment produced so much political manure, it became intolerable for alot of the workers. Many companies become an employee revolving door for this reason. So....you leave.

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Nov 16 2012 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

LMAO, thank you for your clarification, I was taking a different meaning from your suggestion of year round school. So, are you suggesting that Verity would be big enough if the students were on a split/dual track schedule?
 
I think the dual track would still be more expensive, because it would require the teachers and other staff to work year round? A new building is a one-time expense, whereas a payroll increase repeats each year, so there would need to be a detailed financial analysis to determine cost/benefit of that approach. Also, Verity would need extensive renovations to come up to the current OSFC standards.
It should be big enough.Lived in Florida and daughter went to year round school and seemed to work then and still working.The teachers in Florida loved working year round cos they didnt have to go out during the months they was off to find a part-time job for those months.I dont know about anyone else but I would much rather pay someone to crunch some numbers to see what the cost would be for staff and for the renovations before I vote to build a new school.


Posted By: over the hill
Date Posted: Nov 16 2012 at 10:13am
It seems to work well in the Las Vegas area school system


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 22 2012 at 12:11pm
Well, here it comes folks. Gonna ask you to give up some bond money now....

Journal story- 11/22/2012...



District names front runners for possible building project

Middletown City Schools took another step toward updating its secondary school buildings by making a recommendation for hiring an architect firm and construction manager.
A school board subcommittee made a preliminary recommendation Monday to hire the architectural firm of Fanning Howey and the construction management firm of Quandel Construction to build a new middle school and renovate the existing high school.
The district is considering a bond issue on the May ballot to build a new middle school. Initial cost estimates were $29.5 million, which included demolition of the current middle school building on Girard Avenue and the building of a new school. The district had hoped to receive assistance from the Ohio School Facilities Commission, but that state money may not be offered for another two to three years.

CAN'T WAIT FOR 2 OR 3 MORE YEARS FOR SOME STATE FINANCIAL HELP? GOTTA HAVE IT NOW, DO YOU?

The subcommittee was made up of school board members Greg Tyus and Katie McNeil, Long, school superintendent Greg Rasmussen and Thorpe. Based on submitted material, the group evaluated and interviewed the companies for more than seven hours Monday.

WHAT? NO REGULAR CITIZENS FROM THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE ON THIS? NO ONE WHO IS WELL-VERSED IN THE BUILDING TRADE FOR INPUT? JUST SCHOOL PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CONSTRUCTION AND THEREFORE BELIEVE ANYTHING TOLD TO THEM? YOU ARE PLANNING THE ASK THE PEOPLE TO RELEASE SOME BOND MONEY. THE LEAST YOU COULD HAVE DONE WAS TO HAVE THE PEOPLE REPRESENTED IN THIS. WHY JUST NON-QUALIFIED SCHOOL PEOPLE IN ON THIS?

“We had good design in the elementary buildings that gave us flexibility in those classrooms,” McNeil said. “It’s wonderful for the new elementary schools to have the flexibility and space that would enable us to have all-day kindergarten. Some districts aren’t able to afford that opportunity, and so, thanks to the builders’ foresight into what was needed in those schools, we’re very fortunate to have that and to be able to offer it.”

NO, McNEIL, THANKS TO THE VOTERS FOR RELEASING THE FUNDS TO BUILD IN THE FIRST PLACE.

FOLKS, LET'S NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE ON BOND RELEASES FOR NEW SCHOOLS. THIS DISTRICT STILL HASN'T PROVEN THAT THE NEW ELEMENTARY'S WERE A GOOD DECISION AS TO THE PROMISED PERFORMANCE. BESIDES, THEY CAN WAIT 2 OR 3 MORE YEARS FOR SOME ADDITIONAL AID ON FUNDS. JMO

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Nov 23 2012 at 11:44am
Agree with you Vet.The few friends I have and 2 votes from this house we   will be voting "NO".How about Hiring someone to look at the year round school proprosal which we all know it will take a couple of years and then bring it to the table? Sorry but whom ever was on board at the time of the last big build should have done alot more homework then what they done.Smile


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 25 2012 at 8:14am
Sunday's Journal....

District moves forward with building plan
Plan includes new gym, middle school and renovated high school

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By John Bombatch
Staff Writer
A new competition gymnasium to replace Wade E. Miller Gym, a revamped Tiger Ellison training complex, a renovated and expanded high school and a brand new middle school are all pieces of a master building plan Middletown City Schools officials would like to execute in the next few years.
But first, district officials and the Middletown Board of Education will spend the next several weeks crunching numbers, analyzing data, weighing construction options and figuring out how to fund such an enterprise. District officials took their first step toward getting those plans off the ground this week when they began interviewing several architectural and construction management firms in hopes of creating a professional team that would help them through the building process.

WELL SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! GEE, THEY SURE KNOW HOW TO PRIME THE PUBLIC PUMP, DON'T THEY?

I LIKE THIS....

"AND HOW TO FUND SUCH AND ENTERPRISE". I LIKE THE WORDING BOMBATCH. LAUGHABLE. THEIR GONNA FUND IT BY GETTING IN OUR WALLETS AGAIN. NO NEED TO TALK AROUND IT. WE ALL KNOW THE GAME THEY RUN ON THE TAXPAYER. GONNA BE MORE BOND RELEASES WITH VOTER APPROVAL.....AND THE VOTER WILL PROBABLY BUY THIS NONSENSE HOOK, LINE AND SINKER.

WILL "REVAMPING" THE TIGER ELLISON COMPLEX CONTRIBUTE TO THE ACTUAL SCHOLASTIC RESULTS? IF THE PLAN IS TO BUILD A NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL, AND THE THINKING IS THAT CLOSED DOWN VERITY IS TOO SMALL, WHY NOT ADD ON LIKE YOU ARE PLANNING TO DO WITH THE HIGH SCHOOL? SAME PRINCIPLE, RIGHT?

George Long, the district’s business manager, announced Monday that the Fanning Howey architectural firm and the Quandel Construction Group would be recommended by the school board’s search subcommittee.

AGAIN, THIS SO-CALLED "SUB COMMITTEE" HAS NO CITIZEN PARTICIPATION PARTICULARLY THOSE VERSED IN THE CONSTRUCTION COST TRADE. WHY WAS THAT NOT CONSIDERED?

The idea was that by the time the Ohio School Facilities Commission would offer money from the state for building new schools, Middletown City Schools would be ahead of the game with its building plan already in place.

RIDICULOUS.

SO, BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE CAN'T WAIT, YOU ARE GOING TO LEAN HARD ON THE TAXPAYER AND NOT TAKE THE AVAILABLE MONEY OFFERED? SOUNDS WRONG TO ME. DELAY YOUR PLANS UNTIL THE MONEY IS AVAILABLE.

But with an 89-year-old middle school rapidly deteriorating, district officials decided that change needed to be made sooner than originally expected. The plans changed a bit in January when a community study suggested going ahead with building a new middle school.

I THINK THE DAM SCHOOLS WILL STAND A FEW MONTHS LONGER, DON'T YOU? THE DISTRICT OFFICIALS NEED TO HAVE SOME MORE PATIENCE. YOU DON'T NEED THIS TOMORROW. THE DAM BUILDING HAS BEEN STANDING FOR 89 YEARS. MERCY!

And finally, if all the planned work were done without state funding, the price tag for the entire operation would be $79.5 million

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD SCHOOL PEOPLE. WE ARE IN A DAM RECESSION. PEOPLE ARE OUT OF WORK. GAS/GROCERY PRICES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF. PEOPLE'S PROPERTY VALUES HAVE GONE IN THE TOILET .......AND YOU PEOPLE WANT TO SPEND MONEY LIKE IT'S WATER FOR YOUR OWN GRATIFICATION. TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH ON WHAT THIS COMMUNITY CAN AFFORD- ALL OF YOU. WRONG TIME/WRONG IDEA/WRONG SITUATION. THE TOWN NEEDS TO BE MORE HEALTHY BEFORE THIS IS SUGGESTED.

Next week’s story will discuss how the district’s future enrollment population is forecast,

GOOD POINT....THE DISTRICT IS LOSING STUDENTS, HAS NOT SHOWN ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT FROM THE NEW ELEMENTARIES BUILT AND THE TOWN IS LOSING PEOPLE. WHY THE ELABORATE SCHOOLS? AND WHY NOW? ALL OF THIS, VERY IRRITATING.





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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: Nov 27 2012 at 4:09pm
Middletown needs to follow Springboro's lead

Springboro schools in ‘good shape’

by SPRINGBORO SUN on NOVEMBER 14, 2012

By DOUG SKINNER

Editor

dskinner@tcnewsnet.com

SPRINGBORO — The Springboro Community Schools are in “good shape” financially, according to district officials.

The district is “a year or two ahead” of other districts in terms of financial stability, board of education member Jim Rigano said. “I think we’re in a position … We’re in good shape.”

District officials have been making cuts that will help in the future, according to superintendent Todd Petrey. “Saving a little now could prevent us from having to cut a whole lot later … We are educating kids for college and career.”

With today’s economy, most districts are not passing new levies, Petrey said. Because of this, the district must save as much money as possible.

It is important that the district continue to reduce its spending, according to board president Kelly Kohls. “I do know that we are deficit spending, and I know it’s a goal for us not to do that.”

School officials must follow the spending habits of the public, according to board member Wendy Kull. “They’re being more accountable with their money. The district needs to do the same.”

The board will have to put a renewal of a levy that brings in $9.2 million on the ballot in 2013, Petrey said. Because 14 percent of renewals in Ohio fail, Petrey said he would like to see Springboro’s renewal be put on the ballot in May. This would give the district two chances if it were to fail.

“I don’t think there’s any question that we will have to be on the ballot with that renewal,” Rigano said.

“The (district’s) five-year forecast has a lot of assumptions, and it has a lot of critical assumptions,” board member David Petroni said. The timing of when the renewal is put on the ballot is “critical,” he said.




Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 28 2012 at 6:13am
"School officials must follow the spending habits of the public, according to board member Wendy Kull. “They’re being more accountable with their money. The district needs to do the same.”

ATTA GIRL WENDY. LOOKS LIKE THEY FINALLY GET THE PICTURE IN SPRINGBORO. WHAT ABOUT MIDDLETOWN?

"The board will have to put a renewal of a levy that brings in $9.2 million on the ballot in 2013, Petrey said. Because 14 percent of renewals in Ohio fail, Petrey said he would like to see Springboro’s renewal be put on the ballot in May. This would give the district two chances if it were to fail."

AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. IF YOUR LEVY FAILS, YOU ARE GIVEN MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO KEEP RAMMING IT DOWN THE VOTER'S THROAT UNTIL THE VOTER GETS SO TIRED OF BEING BEATEN ON, THEY PASS IT JUST TO GET YOU OUT OF WAY. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE NUMBER OF ATTEMPTS CHANGE TO ONE PER CALENDAR YEAR- YOUR CHOICE WHEN. CURRENTLY YOU SCHOOL FOLKS HAVE, WHAT, THREE ATTEMPTS PER YEAR? NOT SURE AS YOU USUALLY ARE SUCCESSFUL AFTER THE SECOND GO-AROUND.







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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 28 2012 at 6:43am
Jameshh:

"Can you handle the rule truth?"

WE ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH.

Jameshh:

"We truly do need to replace the middle school building as it is a broken building. It is not up to codes for handicap students, has poor lighting, poor plumbing, VERY poor heating system and NO air conditioning."

NO AIR CONDITIONING? REPLACE THE LIGHTING. BUILD SOME HANDICAPPED RAMPS AND FIXTURES, AND UPGRADE THE HEATING SYSTEM WHILE SAVAGING THE DUCT WORK. CAN'T BE MORE THAN BUILDING A NEW SCHOOL. MERCY! ANOTHER BELIEVER THAT NEW SCHOOLS MEAN AUTOMATIC IMPROVEMENTS IN PERFORMANCE.

"Our children and teachers cannot perform at levels they are capable when dealing with the environment we have stuck them in."

HORSECRAP JAMESHH. THEY HAVEN'T PERFORMED IN THE NEW BUILDINGS EITHER. THERE HAVE BEEN GENERATIONS OF STUDENTS THAT HAVE PERFORMED IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT. WE HAVE PROVEN THAT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT MEANS LESS THAN THE CONTENT OF WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT COUPLED WITH THE CONTROL OF THE CLASSROOM WITH MINIMAL DISRUPTIONS. THE ACTUAL ROOMS AREN'T THE PROBLEM. IT'S WHAT IS OCCURING IN THOSE ROOMS THAT MATTERS. THE OLD ADAGE OF THE PIG WITH LIPSTICK....MAKE IT PRETTY, PUT LIPSTICK ON IT, DRESS IT UP......BUT IT'S STILL A PIG.

Jameshh:

"The rule truth of why are scores are not high though is we have VERY high numbers of kids on free and reduced lunches and a lot of parents that just don't care!"

NOW YOU'RE TALKING! AND THE CITY LEADERS (AND THE LOUSY ECONOMY) HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THOSE HIGH NUMBERS BY INVITING THE ELEMENT OF SOCIETY TO TOWN THAT PRODUCES HIGH PARTICIPATION IN HANDOUT PROGRAMS LIKE FREE LUNCHES.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH AS TO WHY THE SCORES ARE NOT HIGH. METHOD OF INSTRUCTION, HOLDING STUDENTS ACCOUNTABLE AND COMING DOWN HARD ON NON-PERFORMANCE (STOP THE COTTLING), SOME LACK OF CARING AND DEDICATION BY STAFF AND TEACHERS TOWARD DECENT RESULTS/BAR SET TOO LOW, SOME PARENTS NOT CARING NOR WORKING WITH THE SCHOOLS.......

Jameshh:

"ALL parents have to have a greater involment in their child's life and several parents need to quit thinking their little brats can do no wrong."

YEP, BUT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH SOME PARENTS. THEY HAVE THE KIDS, REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, AND TURN THEM LOOSE ON SOCIETY TO TAKE CARE OF.

Jameshh:

"All you negative pukers on here should go visit our middle schools for several days and see what the staff goes thru with some of our kids and parents or let me say lack of real parenting and then you will have a much better understanding of why the scores are where they are"

NEGATIVE PUKERS? SHOW US SOMETHING POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR LITTLE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND WE'LL STOP POUNDING AWAY ON LESS THAN ACCEPTABLE RESULTS WE HAVE BEEN SEEING FROM THIS DISTRICT FOR DECADES. WHEN PROGRESS IS MADE AND MAINTAINED (LOSS OF INDICATORS), WE WILL RECOGNIZE IT IN A POSITIVE MANNER. UNTIL THEN.......

Jameshh:

"so yes it's true that we are so very close to achieving that next level."

STILL WAITING (FOR DECADES NOW).....TBD.






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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Dec 03 2012 at 6:29am

Enrollment decline could cost district state dollars
http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/news/local/enrollment-decline-could-cost-district-state-dolla/nTLRD/

Courtesy: Ohio School Design Manual, Ohio Facilities Construction Commission
The Journal is committed to bringing its readers all the details regarding the Middletown City School District’s building plans. Reporter John Bombatch researched through the 40-page Draft Report which provided the DeJong Healy subcontractor’s enrollment projection data as of August, 2012. He learned that enrollment figures have dropped by 1,214 students over the past 10 years.
Sooo...even with the increase of Section 8 vouchers with an average of two children per household within this time period, we are still loosing population and students at our schools.
That drop in numbers, along with the enrollment reports’ forecast of a declining student population, could potentially cost the school district millions in state funding for its new schools.
If Mr. Adkins reduces 1,000 Section 8 voucher that will remove another 2,000 students from this projection....ooops
 



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Dec 07 2012 at 6:51am
Journal story....

District begins negotiations with building partners
Cost estimates established from negotiations will determine amount of bond levy on May ballot.

THIS IS A SURPRISE.

SO, BASED ON WHAT THE PEOPLE ON THE SCHOOL BOARD WANT AND BASED ON WHAT SOME HAND-PICKED COMMITTEE RECOMMENDED, THE SCHOOL BOARD IS TAKING THE OPINIONS OF A SMALL MINORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE AND RUNNING WITH THEIR WANTS......NEVER MIND FINDING OUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE WANTS OR CAN AFFORD.

MY HOPE IS THAT THE VOTERS, COME BOND APPROVAL TIME, WILL EVALUATE WHAT THEY RECEIVED IN APPROVING THE 45 MIL TO BUILD THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND VOTE THIS DOWN. JUST CAN'T KEEP GIVING THE SCHOOL PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT UNTIL THEY START IMPROVING PERFORMANCE AND JUSTIFYING THE ADDITIONAL OUTLAY OF MONEY FOR NEW SCHOOLS ALREADY BUILT. IF WE KEEP GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT, THERE IS NO INCENTIVE FOR THE SCHOOLS TO IMPROVE IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. APPARENTLY, THE "DO A GOOD JOB, THEN REAP THE REWARDS" THEME HAS TURNED TO "GIVE US WHAT WE WANT AND WE'LL "TRY" TO DO BETTER" APPROACH. RIDICULOUS. JMO

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Dec 07 2012 at 8:04am

Hmmm….Let me put on my thinking cap….

1. City Hall needs 150 to 200 million dollars for the combined sewer project
    within the next two years.
2. City Hall needs another 2 million dollar bond so they can tear down more
    buildings in “Their Downtown” in 2013 for more CS parking.
3. City Hall wants to increase taxes so we can afford more fire and police.
4. City Hall wants to put an extra charge on my water bill to pay for repairing the  

    streets and or street lighting.
….…..and now the School Board wants more money to build new schools.

All of this while investments are making no return and property in this town has lost half its value. Confused

   



Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Dec 16 2012 at 10:14pm
I'm guessing the school district wants to get that levy passed before the state starts with the new school district grading of A to F. That would make it pretty easy for the taxpayers to figure out exactly where Middletown Schools stood instead of the confusing information they send out now. Currently, the school district turns that information around and around to say what they want it to say. If the grade is an A or an F that will be pretty hard to do....



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 6:29am
Hey! It's almost time for another school building levy!

Today's Journal...

School board OKs moving district offices
Board also considers placing bond issue on May ballot

The board also discussed Monday the possibility of placing a facilities bond issue before voters as soon as May 7. The district is considering building a middle school on the site of the Verity Middle School and renovating Middletown High School.

The approximately $55 million project would cost the owner of a $100,000 home about $10 per month, Long said. He said this would provide enough local funding to complete secondary projects without returning to voters when the state funds become available.

If the levy was passed in May it would take approximately three years to complete projects with a move-in date set for August 2016, according to Long. Once the projects are complete, Long said, the state would owe the district about $40 million in state funds.

No state funds would be distributed until the projects are complete, he said.

The board is set to vote on the levy at its Jan. 28 meeting. The last day to pass a resolution for May election is Feb. 5.

NOW WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THEY WILL RECONSIDER THIS LEVY PLACEMENT FOR MAY? LITTLE TO NONE RIGHT? LIKE MANY TIMES BEFORE, WHEN THEY START TALKING ABOUT A LEVY, IT'S ALWAYS APPROVED. SECURE YOUR WALLET AND HOLD ON TO IT. THEY'RE ABOUT TO TRY TO GET INTO IT AGAIN EVEN THOUGH MOST IN TOWN CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE ANYMORE. APPARENTLY, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR SITUATION, MR. PROPERTY OWNER.

JUST REMEMBER IN MAY, WHEN YOU GO TO THE POLLS TO VOTE FOR THEIR SCHOOL UPGRADES, THAT THE 45 MIL BOND LEVY WE GAVE THEM A FEW YEARS AGO, PRODUCING THE FANCY NEW SCHOOLS, HAS PRODUCED LITTLE TO NO IMPROVEMENT, AND THE DISTRICT STILL HAS THE REPUTATION OF BEING A POOR PERFORMER. WHAT HAVE WE TAXPAYING VOTERS GOTTEN FOR OUR MONEY SO FAR? ASK YOURSELF, IS WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN SO FAR WORTH GIVING THEM MORE?

I LIKE THIS FROM RASMUSSEN......GREAT EXAMPLE OF EVADING THE QUESTION.

When questioned why the district would want to be located downtown, instead of the East End, where the city is growing, Superintendent Greg Rasmussen said the district has buildings throughout the city, and bringing the jobs to the City Building could make for a “stronger downtown.”

DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION, DID HE? DIDN'T TELL US WHY THE EAST END WASN'T CONSIDERED....JUST THAT THE DOWNTOWN WOULD BENEFIT FROM THE MOVE. AND JUST WHY WOULD WE PREFER THE DOWNTOWN BEING "STRONGER" AND NOT CONCENTRATING ON THE EAST END? THE EAST END IS MORE MODERN, LOCATED IN A HIGHER VISIBILITY CONTEXT, IS THE ENTRYWAY TO THE CITY, HIGHER PRICED REAL ESTATE AND WOULD ATTRACT FAR MORE BUSINESS THAN THE DOWNTOWN. THE EAST END WAS THE FOCAL POINT FOR GROWTH FOR DECADES. NOW, BECAUSE OF SOME DREAMS, WISHES AND DESIRES FROM A SMALL SEGMENT OF THE TOWN'S POPULATION TO CONCENTRATE ON THE DOWNTOWN, IT IS NO LONGER PRIORITY ONE? AS OPPOSED TO THE ANTIQUATED DOWNTOWN AREA? SERIOUSLY?

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 11:22am
Again I and others will be Voting "NO". I say it would be a safe bet that they didnt even look into year round school.
I dont care where they move to but I think its funny what the Super Duper said about movng downtown.LOL


Posted By: Chris Fiora
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 12:02pm
LMAO,
Year round school doesn't address the issues facing Middletown City Schools.  Year round schools make sense when there are more students than there is class room space (for a 9 month school year).  By going to school year round school disticts are able to strech their limited class room space.  This is just like a company who's machine is full of business for day shift.  Rather than buy another machine, the company will add a second shift.
 
Middletown doesn't suffer a lack of class room space in the Middle School.  The issue with the Middle School is that it is old and antiquated and is not properly located.  It's fairly straight forward to fix the old and antiquated, but this will not change its location.  Middletown Schools lose a lot of students between elementary school and the middle school due to them not wanting their children to go to the current middle school.  You can agree or disagree about the Middle School but the choice is up to the parent's and they are voting with their feet.
 
If you agree with a new middle school, the high school work follows because the state will pay for it.  If Middletown passes on the state money, the money will not be returned to Ohio taxpayers but will simply go to a different school district.  I personnally don't agree with this system but it's the system that we have in Ohio and we might as well use it to our own advantage.


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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Chris Fiora Chris Fiora wrote:



LMAO,
Year round school doesn't address the issues facing Middletown City Schools.  Year round schools make sense when there are more students than there is class room space (for a 9 month school year).  By going to school year round school disticts are able to strech their limited class room space.  This is just like a company who's machine is full of business for day shift.  Rather than buy another machine, the company will add a second shift.
 
Middletown doesn't suffer a lack of class room space in the Middle School.  The issue with the Middle School is that it is old and antiquated and is not properly located.  It's fairly straight forward to fix the old and antiquated, but this will not change its location.  Middletown Schools lose a lot of students between elementary school and the middle school due to them not wanting their children to go to the current middle school.  You can agree or disagree about the Middle School but the choice is up to the parent's and they are voting with their feet.
 
If you agree with a new middle school, the high school work follows because the state will pay for it.  If Middletown passes on the state money, the money will not be returned to Ohio taxpayers but will simply go to a different school district.  I personnally don't agree with this system but it's the system that we have in Ohio and we might as well use it to our own advantage.


Mr. Fiora:

Actually, the "more students than classroom space" issue was addressed a long time ago in the Middletown school system. When I was a senior in 1966, there were too many students for the high school( old Vail-the middle school now) to handle. My graduating class alone had 567 kids that graduated that year, not counting the juniors and sophomores (9th grade was still considered junior high school back then and not involved). To accomodate the three grades, the schools decided to have the seniors and half the juniors attend from 7AM until 12 noon and the other half of the junior class and the sophomores attend from 1PM until 6PM. If you had a study hall at the end of the day, you were asked to leave and not attend as they wanted as many students out of the building as posible to relieve crowding in the hallways during class changes. Seemed to work back then. If this has proven, in the past, to be a workable solution to the overcrowding of the school, then year around school could be done. It is my understanding that the suggestion of year around school is to devote more time to academics to give this district a fighting chance to improve their performance with the idea of more time in school yields better results. To date,nothing else has worked in all the attempts made to improve. I see no reason not to give the year around/split shift for students program a try. What does this district have to lose? JMO

As to your comment about the middle school "not being properly located" Why not? For decades, it was properly located for the entire town. Students either drove to school, their parents drove them to school or the Ortman-Stewart city bus took you to school. (There were no yellow buses back then) That is another option toward getting to this "poorly located" school. It is in proximity to downtown, which is now deemed worthy of the town's interest. The city thinks this area is "properly located" don't they based on all the activity around that area and the money they have thrown into the area. The school is not that far from the city's favorite location nowadays. You wouldn't be deeming this school "not properly located" because you are trying to convince the public that a new school needs to be built that IS properly located, would you? By the way, who determines what "properly located" is when you are pulling kids in from all parts of the city?

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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 4:24pm
"Centrally" located, or "balanced" locations and community would
be a big plus.

As Vet mentions, people play that area to however if serves their cause
best.


Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jan 15 2013 at 6:23pm
I'd rather pay for the new school bond issue than to be forced to pay the mortgage for an over built Senior Center.

PacmanCool
 
a disable senior citizen



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