Middletown's Formula for Downtown Success??
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Economic Development
Forum Description: Local government efforts to develop the local Middletown area economy.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6887
Printed Date: Apr 26 2024 at 10:10am
Topic: Middletown's Formula for Downtown Success??
Posted By: Analytical
Subject: Middletown's Formula for Downtown Success??
Date Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 12:12pm
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1) Former Manchester Inn 2) Former Snider Building 3) Former First National Bank Building 4) Former Rose Furniture Building 5) Goetz Tower 6) Former Senior Citizen's Center 7) Former Montgomery Ward Building 8) Former Strand/Studio Theater Property 9) Former CG&E Building ($340K Property Tax Delinquent)
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Replies:
Posted By: itsamee
Date Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 1:41pm
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Analytical's formula for success??
Move out of town Use bold and brightly colored fonts ------------- Itsa me, mario! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 1:53pm
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What a profound post, Itsamee! We await you providing concrete solutions as to how Middletown can finally overcome the negative impact of the above stalled, heavily subsidized, unsuccessful deals?
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Posted By: itsamee
Date Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 2:06pm
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1. I will write more profound posts on the internet where I can point fingers from afar. 2. As a resident, I will continue to elect the same officials and complain about them while not running for office myself. 3. I will not go to council meetings. 4. I will not go downtown and try and support the local business there. Those people should suffer for taking advantage of the system! 5. I will continue to hang out in this echo chamber of grumpy gus' just like me! ------------- Itsa me, mario! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Aug 30 2018 at 7:47am
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Just curious itsamee, since you are not in agreement with Analytical's posts for the most part, what would you suggest to address the issues presented here? Your posts always condemn Analytical for his information based on facts presented by him, but you don't seem to add your thoughts as to how to address the issues as you see things. Just wonder how you envision the city and if you would like to tell us your ideas to better the city. Would you be willing to give us some thoughts as to why Analytical is wrong in his information and presentation and what you would do to correct what you see is wrong with Middletown? Right or wrong, the way the situation is now, Analytical seems to be re-enforcing his claims with viable data and you seem to be criticizing his information and the manner in which he presents it with no supporting evidence. Could you elaborate on your criticism with supporting data so that we may compare your information to his? It will allow us to form a conclusion as to who is correct. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Aug 30 2018 at 11:40am
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Hey---at least it was easier to read How many times can someone say the same thing(even when no one seems to be listening)? Council meetings are not what they used to be---little to no discussion(all happens backstage now)--though finally some "emergency" legislation failed--gasp!! Instead of running FOR Council, most run FROM Council I support many businesses in our formerly downtown area--mostly because they are pretty much the only businesses that we have left Would be nice to read some new thinking here--specifically of the constructive nature...otherwise this formerly cool place is old news |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 01 2018 at 1:37pm
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Steve - Say what you will. However, do spend a little time going through blog archives and you'll find that both Whistlersmom and Vivian Moon were once frequent "posters" who raised issues that you might characterize as being REPETITIVE insofar as concerns about unspoken/unknown city problems. In Vivian's case, she aggressively sought and obtained detailed financial/programmatic information on NSP, CDBG, HOME, other HUD-funded assistance programs like Section 8, Downtown Fund, UDAG Fund, etc.. For example, much light was shed on the monetary waste and damaging NSP-funded neighborhood mega demolition endeavor that's scarred the former Ward 2. Then, there's the diversion of $220,000+ of these "RESIDNETIAL FORECLOSURE PREVENTION FUNDS" to buy, demolish and resell "downtown" commercial properties for $1.00 to Liberty Spirits LLC. It was Vivian who obtained copies of contract documents for some "downtown" re-development deals and discovered that they lacked customary provisions protecting the best interests of the city. In one instance she provided this data to a sitting city council member. He chose not to share her findings because the other four city council members were said to unlikely show any concern. Just think that legally-trained city staff failed to include customary re-developer performance requirements, ownership reversionary clause protections, etc. The former Manchester Inn and Snider Buildings are prime examples of this incompetence. It was brought to light how $600,000 in Wellhead Protection funds were diverted to pay for the cost of the Orman Buildings demolition. It was Vivian who exposed the cavalier waste of $180,000+ in CDBG Stimulus Funds to pave two alleys and facility/playground improvements at lightly used S. Main Street Park. The list goes on and on, Steve. How many times Vivian and I would share our disappointment regarding the modest level of responses to fact-filled posts. Similar sentiments were also shared with Whistlersmom as she commented often about other matters of civic importance. As long as there's the current level of resident apathy regarding the priorities, policies, plans and programs of Doug Adkins and city council, how likely is it that Middletown will begin successfully addressing a multitude of community betterment matters in a productive and cost-effective manner? And, in response to your comment about the MUSA blog once again becoming a cool site, please review archived posts. You'll find that numerous items of concern have been continuously voiced over the past 10 years. Let's see what the "new revamped" MUSA blog that you envision will become. The ball is in your court along with Itsamee, FmrMide81, Buddhalite, etc. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 9:05am
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sorry--no 'ball", not even a "court" the list definitely goes on + we read about it daily again and again and again always grateful for Ms.Moon's discoveries--always liked her and respect her--wish her nothing but the best Middietown is going to have to get it right eventually, hopefully sooner rather than much later the town is still here Learn from the past and move on not out to punish anyone, though daily reading here has become enough punishment yet I still live here for the most part--and will go out to have an enjoyable holiday today--life goes on--it could be a lot worse Maybe break your obsession with this past? |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 12:37pm
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Steve - Pray tell, how can anyone break "their obsession with the past" when continuously new problems and questionable actions keep happening? Surely you recognize this? Middletown deserves a City Manager who has demonstrated core competencies in community development. Middletown deserves a City Manager who doesn't micro-manage all "downtown", neighborhood revitalization and economic development priorities, policies, plans and programs. As you often say, Middletown deserves better than 20-25 minute long "pre-determined" city council meetings. You've been outspoken when it comes to City Council. For the most part, you've given Doug Adkins a pass! Until there is change at the top, you will continue to read about questionable One Donham Abbey actions. Middletown has squandered millions in HUD and other funds over the past 9.5 years. As you noted about the Sutphin Street area and "the area formerly known as downtown", there's not much improvement of note.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 3:18pm
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So what do we do here folks? Do we "pack it in" and say goodbye to the only news source that is available to dispute the one sided crap shoveled by the Journal? Do we just let the city leaders have their way without so much as a whimper and just stop participating in a free wheeling dialogue from all sides of the ledger? Do we just quit on the job and walk away from monitoring, reporting and giving our honest responses to what is happening in this city in all areas of concern? Does anyone care about the hidden agendas from council, the city manager and the city government in general? Do the folks living here care at all what the city has become, care about the agenda, or care about how their money is being spent? Does apathy win? Does cowering win? Do they win? From free speech democracy to closed mouth dictatorship? Do we want to eliminate this social counter balance to voice our opinions and just accept what is going on in this city like good little servants do? It is exactly what they want us to do. Roll over and play dead, silencing the only vocal resistance this city has. Do we sell out and just move out of town like others have done? Stop participation and let it die. That will please them and let them have free reigns to do as they please without oversight at all. They are no doubt happy this forum is on life support as to participation. Adkins and company are smiling right now. Do we give them the satisfaction? Is this the way we want to go here? And "what will you do when the only source to express yourself is removed and the only means of voicing your opinion dies"......(Kinda like the speech old Braveheart gave the band of Scots before the battle with the King of England-Longshanks army isn't it?)  Think about it before you give up your right to voice your opinions. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 04 2018 at 8:49am
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I don't see where anyone is "winning", or giving up voicing opinions---we hardly have any opinions here anymore anyway. And those opinions being voiced here have been given dozens of times. What about something new to think about and talk about? Re-hashing the past(mostly unfortunate decisions by many long gone) is going nowhere and hasn't changed much lately. No one honestly cares much what any of us post anymore. Times have changed--there are positive people out there doing good things--hopefully that continues and mushrooms.... |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 9:09am
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[QUOTE EXCERPT=spiderjohn] Re-hashing the past (mostly unfortunate decisions by many long gone) is going nowhere and hasn't changed much lately. [/QUOTE] Steve, how unfortunate that you predictably omitted the one senior city staff member who's been both the architect of and administrator for quite a few costly, questionable, low- to no-impact "downtown" and older neighborhood plans, programs and projects over the past 9.5 years. Steve, to the contrary, the "unfortunate decisions of the past" that you note sadly still happen to this day. So many lost opportunities to revitalize Middletown and millions of HUD and other funding sources gone! The documented facts detailed in MUSA blog archives (past and recent) fully substantiate the above assertions. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 11:41am
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Over 10 years of discussion here Didn’t make a difference—at least not much |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 2:30pm
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Like FmrMide81 posted before, if the buses are running and the trash is picked up, most people just don't care. It's anyone's guess what the physical and economic health of Middletown will be in 2023 or even in 2028. More private sector business investments and volunteer contributions (like Berachah Church) are imperatives. You're correct in highlighting non-governmental actions and the positives no matter how small. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 5:08pm
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Ok, spiderjohn, and I'm sure others, suggest this forum has "dried up" and blown away unless we introduce new, interesting content as topics. Spider, and others, seem to have had enough of what this forum offers and apparently see no reason to continue this format. Perhaps they are correct. Ok then. To coin and alter a phrase from the Gipper..... Mr. Beagle, tear down this forum!! Let it be done. When this forum goes, there will no longer be any vocal dissent in this town. The leaders will be thrilled and overjoyed. They will have no published resistance to offset their agenda. Flaws and failures to any issue will not be brought to anyone's attention now. Let's all move on with our lives and pretend with all the other clueless, apathetic people living here, that all is well in Middieland. Yessirree, the town will be run right and the schools will make a total resounding turnaround now that they have their nice little new schools in place. All we have to do is ignore any questionable performance or decision and refuse to hold anyone accountable for constantly screwing up the city and schools. Let 'em both go to hell in a handbasket while we go about our daily lives. Who cares how bad each get now. Lower that bar until we reach rock bottom. The lie is just beginning and we are now in a "just fooling ourselves" mode here.  ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 10:44pm
| Honestly this forum has little to do with changing anything mentioned above... |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 7:40am
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Then shut it down if it provides no useful purpose. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 8:52am
Steve - Ample, verifiable evidence has been offered since 2008 for city-subsidized and/or administered multi-million dollar community betterment(?) activities. Senior city staff devised priorities, policies, plans and programs for their highly-visible still stalled/incomplete/unsuccessful projects. A review of blog archives finds that maybe 15 to perhaps 20 members, aside from "closet" One Donham Abbey "friends", participated in meaningful discourse. Some of those "vacillated" back and forth from the ranks of the concerned citizens to pro-bureaucracy camps. It's hard to admit that there's been there's been precious few blog participants who have voiced concern regarding various matters of great importance. In no way is this realization an "indictment" of those like VietVet, Vivian Moon, Acclaro, Whistlersmom, etc., etc. For the most part only a small cadre of "preferred" residents comprise city commissions, committees, etc. In closing, what will the economic/housing/infrastructure health of Middletown be in five to ten years? GOD willing, sustainable improvements will occur. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 10:51am
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This has been a very interesting and productive spot for local discussion. Not saying that it needs to go away. However, constant repetition of unfortunate decisions and unforeseen results that cannot change has pretty much driven constructive discourse away. Anyone straying from Analytical’s attack/punishment mode is disrespected as not caring, or protecting Council and Admin. Everyone is concerned—everyone cares—accept that we all don’t think similarly or vindictively(?). This place may regain popularity—it may not Places like this come and go. It’s 10+ year life has been very active. Maybe accept the possibility that the repetitive negative droning is a factor. Not denying or discounting the info posted in the past—it has been very enlightening, and I thank you for your efforts in laying it out. |
Posted By: buddhalite
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 1:35pm
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First, this board can be a wonderful resource for the citizens of Middletown. I see no reason to shut down the board. Secondly, Spider hit it on the head with his use of the word Vindictive. There are ways to present materials and information in a spirit of cooperation and for the pursuit of good actions by council and city staff that don't amount to a tantrum over years ago spilled milk. Thirdly, the forum hasn't 'dried up' - rather the forum can be vibrant - but content matters. The more content we post, the more active the forum will be. New topics are desperately needed. This place should be the go-to spot for news and information and most importantly discussion regarding our fair city. With a little less repetition, less vindication and more participation....this can once again be a vigorous discussion forum that can have impact all over the city. ------------- "Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 6:21pm
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Because of your oft-stated interest in running for city council next year, let your suggestion for the solicitation of new blog discussion topics begin with you. And, in the process, try to be a little less sanctimonious from now forward as you're on record as having dished out quite a number of provocative, blatantly critical and insulting comments yourself. Try offering specifics this time rather than penning frequent generalities. And, Steve, please know that I'm not alone in recognizing the "vacillation" tendencies of some over the years.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 7:12pm
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Well-intentioned people of authority occasionally make regrettable decisions, Nelson. Not everything plays out as planned either. Being the “answer man” is not always glamourous and good. A lot of responsibility and pressure. Few are capable or want these positions. With time and circumstances, people often change their minds. Often we have to accept the bad along with the good. Ok — enough of that.... I don’t live in the past. I think more about tomorrow than about yesterday. I worry more about my decisions than those of others. I see people trying to make good things happen around here, and want them to succeed. Vet and you are sincerely good people, though your unhappiness and resentment overpowers everything else and is extremely repetitive. Most understand how you feel, though it might be time to take a break until you have something fresh to offer. They say that “ misery loves company” and geothermal of you seem to come here for that reason. Let it go—move in to something positive that makes you happy. Your anger is too obvious..... Let it go for a while—take a break and actually enjoy yourselves... |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 8:24am
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I will not speak for Analytical Spider, but I will try and take your suggestion to back off posting. You are 100% correct concerning my bitterness toward the city and the schools. I detest what the city has done to my hometown and I detest seeing everyone's taxes going down the black hole of futility with the schools. The city leaders and school people irritate me to no end when I see constant failures over DECADES and no actual positive progression happening despite enormous amounts of money being spent (and wasted) with their failed programs and ideas. I repeat my posts because the same problems exist. My posts are repetitive because the town nor the schools never change for the better. The city is now ghetto status compared to the better years and the schools are bottom feeders when compared to surrounding school districts. The numbers don't lie for the schools and the poor image and reputation of this city is readily apparent. Nevertheless, I will take your suggestion, as hard as it will be to do. and try my best to back off the posts. I doubt very seriously whether I will find too many positive things to say about the city or the schools. That being the case, I will just not post at all if it is too critical. Your suggestions have been duly noted. Thank you for your honesty in your overview of the situation. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: buddhalite
Date Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 2:15pm
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See, this is why this board is 'drying' up - all I did was share my true thoughts and feelings - and I get roasted. It isn't worth participating under these circumstances. ------------- "Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 4:38pm
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Vet—the irony in this is that I agree with a lot of what you say, and you know that to be the case—the lingering bitterness simply isn’t worth it imo Nelson obviously thinks otherwise, though I also won’t dispute a lot of what he says either.... |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 5:19pm
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 5:22pm
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I've been saying what Spider said for years. Too many people are living in the past. Nelson does not even live here yet he continues to infect this forum with his pettiness and bitter feelings. GO AWAY!! Buddah, I commend you for your viewpoint and forward thinking. I too was savaged by bitter people living in the past. Please keep sharing as I enjoy your optimism. We need people like you to offer thoughts and solutions to problems in the city, not just complain endlessly with no solutions like others. Nelson please focus on your town and making it better. Your resentment of city administration is not healthy. Do yourself, and positive minded people a favor and leave this thread until you can be positive and offer solutions. Your constant complaining is wearing thin on everyone. I hope one day you can find peace. ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 8:06am
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 10:14am
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Nelson, when did you become so sensitive? You just need to let go of Middletown or find another city to worry about. No one cares what a resident of another city thinks. Can you find a new hobby for the sake of yourself and others on this forum? Or as I have suggested before just talk into a mirror and save us all from your bitternss. I hope for your health you can find peace. ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 10:16am
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Middiemom, your comments about Buddhalite are a bit paradoxical and strangely humorous given his frequent and relevant posts about the actions of senior city staff and their questionable city-subsidized activities. Are you speaking of the same person? Which way is it? As a "blind faith" supporter of the folks at One Donham Abbey, how do you reconcile this? |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 4:00pm
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Thanks for these two participants recent encouraging private message excerpts........ 1) No matter what is said against you, it is still refreshing to read your posts concerning the data you present and what is has done to the city. I, for one, am glad you are a participant. 2) These people are idiots and don't deserve your help. The ridicule here is not worth it.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 09 2018 at 9:03pm
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Hey Nelson—the information that you have provided has been very enlightening. Many thank you for those efforts. You had an unfortunate experience here—very troubling and sad, though you are hardly the first or worst case scenario to be stomped on by bureaucracy. You left to hopefully find peace and improve your life. Hopefully that happens eventually. Everyone understands your point and thinking. Where do you expect your continued repitition to take us? That is the part that I don’t understand—everyone is not prioritized to your liking. Doesn’t make them right or wrong and doesn’t make them bad people. Your time here was short and your experiences limited. What is it that you REALLY want from or for Middletown? |
Posted By: processor
Date Posted: Sep 10 2018 at 1:17pm
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Analytical, You just demonstrated Spider's point by the following post "
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 12 2018 at 2:12pm
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Total agreement, processor. I agree with Spider also that Nelson, while extremely negative, has provided a lot of information to this forum. I just wish he could find peace in his community and let go of old grievances. Is his community not fortunate enough to have a forum where citizens can come together to offer solutions to city problems in a productive and positive way that we do? For the sake of his physical and mental health, I hope so. My husband was downsized during the recession also. He holds no grudges has no conspiracy theories, has many hobbies and thankfully moved on to successfully work for himself. I and my family are blessed that he could do this instead of taking another course. He is an inspiration, and a role model to our children. Oh well, off to West Central Wine for a glass (or two ) with friends. ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 13 2018 at 11:50am
| May the posts of You, Buddhalite, Processor, Spiderjohn, Itsamee, FmrMide81, etc. spur increased blog participant and other resident involvement in helping to remedy the city's community development issues. |
Posted By: processor
Date Posted: Sep 13 2018 at 1:50pm
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Middie Mom, I hope you enjoyed your glass, or two, of wine at West Central. West Central is a fun place to go. Hopefully it's a start to get more of these places.
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Posted By: Upper90
Date Posted: Sep 14 2018 at 10:57am
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Don't forget to plop down that buck for the DORA wristband....... |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 14 2018 at 7:50pm
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Middletown Journal-News - September 2018 New Downtown Refreshment Area Regulations Internet News Article Link: https://www.journal-news.com/news/changes-coming-middletown-outdoor-drinking-area/dj3kcbzJdvUVlC7GWdwvPL/
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 14 2018 at 8:48pm
We did, Nelson. Thank you. I share your optimism in hoping that our downtown thrives. We are getting close. Granted, we have work to, do but everyday we get closer to our shared goals. By the way, congratulations to all of the best of Middletown winners. Such a wonderful event put on by the young Middletown professionals. Looking forward to this for years!!!!! ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 11:22am
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Middiemom - Did you ever take the time to respond to Buddhalite's recent and reasonable request for the submission of MUSA participant comments and suggestions regarding the betterment of 'downtown' Middletown? If not, I'm certain that he'd still appreciate a submission from you.
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Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 4:12pm
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Nelson, please, please let go. This is really getting to be borderline obsession for you. Again, I and many others, hope for your health and peace you can focus your energy on something positive in your community. ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 4:59pm
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Beginning to wonder just who is obsessed with whom? Maybe u2 could just get a room? lol j/k |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 5:55pm
| Spider, like VietVet, I'll try again to withhold any comments (subject to being 'needled' again by Middiemom or Buddha). |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 6:08pm
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Spider, so so funny. I just want the negativity to end. Point taken though! ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 6:56pm
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The future of Middletown remains highly dependent upon the engagement of more civic-minded residents like VietVet, Spiderjohn, you and others like Vivian Moon, Whistlersmom, Acclaro, etc., who (unfortunately) no longer participate. There continues to exist many community betterment challenges that requires the most cost-effective, highest/best use examples of governance. In that regard, your love of Middletown is duly noted. Please refrain from any further character assessments. Your feelings are now very well known. |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 7:58pm
Yeah, Nelson. Let's listen to people who live in the past. Great strategy.  Spider is a forward thing individual that isn't mired in the 1950's. i value his opinion. I don't agree with some other opinions but respect their input in THEIR city. THEIR city. I have absolutely no idea why you continue to be consumed with our sleepy little community. You pay no taxes here and have no vote. Grind your axe somewhere else where you can make a difference. I wish you well and pray for you to find peace.------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 9:28pm
| Please refrain from any further character assessments of me and certainly not of lifelong Middletonians like Vivian, VietVet, Whistlersmom, etc. Please.. |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Sep 18 2018 at 11:10pm
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Vet, Vivian, and Whistler's mom will always have a voice here as taxpayers and voters. Those who have no stake in the game and have fled the city.... .  ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: redbengals
Date Posted: Nov 06 2018 at 1:29am
says one of the MOST negative people on here. ------------- Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors because I have better things to do and quite frankly do not care |
middiemom wrote:Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Nov 06 2018 at 8:58am
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Red Bengal, I am always positive about this city. It’s the likes of you and other bitter people who are stuck in the past that offer up the negativity. Look in the mirror. Sheesh! On another thread they are trying to destroy a businesswoman who is trying to make a difference in her community. Somehow I think Nelson is still out here. 🤔 ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: buddhalite
Date Posted: Nov 08 2018 at 10:11am
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If you are an elected official and you have tax liens against you - shouldn't you be on the hook to explain? "THEY" aren't trying to do destroy anyone - one person is - but "THEY" aren't. I guess you aren't for accountability in your elected officials? Gimme a break. Additionally - give me three things to be positive about in Middletown that don't concern DORA, the miserably failing balloon thing or shattered memories of downtown. I'm waiting - and I'll be here all week. You can't - and that's the problem - our leaders have only one focus - the rest of the city be damned. ------------- "Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises |
Posted By: middielover
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 7:28am
| middiemom = Ami Vitori |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 9:03am
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Middielover, why are you infatuated with who I am? Why can’t we just celebrate our community and support local businesses and events together? Bickering on a dead web site does no one any good. Instead, I propose that you come to the next first Friday and enjoy our town. Have a drink at the wine bar and then enjoy a nice dinner while leaving plenty of time to shop at our many shops afterward. We need to let go of our petty differences and celebrate our community! ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 2:00pm
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Why no mention or interest in promoting the other areas of the city? So many neighborhoods and small local businesses that never get a mention or admin support. What about other distressed centers in the community? If they received as much attention and financial support hopefully they could rival the former downtown also. Looking forward to the opening of the new darts themed bar next to Combs bbq—owners have done it right sparing no expense. Possibly too nice for this area, and should quickly become the drinking/gaming/social center of the community. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 7:18pm
middiemom, if I may reply here..... "Why can't we just celebrate our community......" Some of us residents who have been around here since the 50's may not feel like celebrating and don't share your enthusiasm toward the direction and focus of the city plans. We disagree with the overboard focus on the downtown area and feel that ALL areas need attention but have been forgotten by city leaders. It is not wrong to disagree with the downtown vision and people shouldn't be lambasted for showing opposition. It is within our rights to object to what excites the downtown supporters. Some of us do not see the value of downtown development given the other, more important issues facing this city. "shopping at our many shops afterward".... Believe it or not, some of us working class people don't like what is offered downtown. You are assuming that most in town, such as yourself, like what downtown people like. Arts, crafts and culture in the form of wine tasting and gourmet sandwiches at overblown prices is not what most like here. Just as we have been accused of not having an open mind during this "downtown renaissance" the people who have worked on downtown development also exhibit a closed mind by insisting that we either enjoy the downtown offerings or be labeled as "malcontents" by those who only see downtown's theme. Let's face it. The downtown development was orchestrated by a small group of people who convinced city leaders that this is what the city needed for revitalization. In actuality, the downtown resurgence has been but a very small part in helping this city out of it's misery. Not a major impact maker to be truthful. This downtown effort is more of a hobby for the culture crowd. Jobs, meaningful employment, decent roads, decent performing schools, money flow, seeking out what people really want for their city, entertainment, tailored to the city demographics and shopping choices are all much more important IMO. Coffee shops, wine tasting events, crafts, arts and attempts at culture are not going to make any difference toward city progression. Just simply not what we need at this time. All the downtown things happening now comes AFTER the basic needs are in place. JMO Finally, to some, "celebrating our community" doesn't include "coming downtown and sampling the offerings" as you suggest. Because it is your cup of tea doesn't mean that most feel the same way. Appeasing your idea of a good time is probably not in the cards for most living here. The downtown dreamers have had their time in the sun and have garnered what we see today after millions spent and decades of attempts. Now, it should be time for the majority to see the city leaders appease their wants and wishes for the city. That's probably a fair thing to do, right? Why is the situation totally skewed to one side on this? ....Any thoughts on this? ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 10:08pm
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Vet, I only wanted to suggest to anyone interested that there are many good things going on in town. Sorry if I’m proud of the city I grew up in and returned to. You don’t have to focus on the downtown experience if you don’t want to. You keep talking about the 50’s there is still the Jug (which I and my family love), Steak and shake , BW3’s and Sonic if you like that drive in feel of the ‘50’s. I don’t care what you do with your money as long as it is kept local. I happen to enjoy a different experience. Why is there such division? We are all Middletonians. You really ought to come down to first Friday and give it a chance if you haven’t. Great shops and restaurants. ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: buddhalite
Date Posted: Nov 27 2018 at 10:20pm
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For me - it's simple - it's my money and it's being wasted. Why don't I as a citizen have the right to that opinion? ------------- "Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 28 2018 at 8:38am
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had a nice introduction to Swire Inn last evening nice place friendly people good fish & chips and on their own dime I enjoy a few places down there, and credit for organizing if other area businesses unite for their centers/neighborhoods constructively/collectively hopefully they receive similar admin support we all have the "right" to opinion! we all learn from others' opinion we all need to understand and in some way support one another the quiet giant is emerging on Sloebig Rd--ready to loom largely this spring! |
Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Nov 28 2018 at 9:26am
You're wrong about that, Steve. When I first came to Middletown I was full of hope to see things get better. I even put my money where my mouth was and inserted my business into a downtown store front and volunteered for several downtown projects. While my business did just fine without any local support or customers it was negative post by you and others that convinced me the town was hopeless. Even posts by others bringing in new idea's and possible businesses were mocked. Not surprisingly, these entrepreneurs never moved forward with their idea's (or at least not in Middletown). I'm 100% positive that yours (and others) discussions here DID make a difference. I want to thank you personally for that. I am much happier living where I'm at now. I am still in business, get to walk out my back door to go hunting and fishing on my own land, have a huge garden and raise my own livestock for meat. You know what the best part is? Not one single person in my community has one discouraging thing to say about the way I choose to use my investment of time and property. Not one single person tells me how hopeless my efforts are or how I can never improve the quality of life for myself and others around me. I really think you underestimate yourself when you say you never made a difference.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 28 2018 at 9:49am
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house guy! I absolutely apologize for offending you--a bad response to some negative things from you concerning my former business and at a sensitive time for me. No excuse ever for being rude. You tried--you participated--you did good work Interesting how things play out--all the best to your family and you And I am back invested with another business in the community! |
Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Nov 28 2018 at 10:10am
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Well, I too apologize for some things I said about your choice to close the business. I get it, the city has become a little rough around the edges. Honestly, it was more of a reaction to all the negative vibes this forum gives off to anyone who dares try and make an improvement. I honestly think everyone should consider the fact that it's not just Middletown, it's a complete change in culture around the whole country. To much "trophy for everyone", not enough accountability for anyone, and this entitlement we seem to give to people who never earned it while at the same time taking it from those who did. When we get back to rewarding those who try and make a difference instead of punishing them we might just turn this country around. When we stop giving a free lunch to those who never try we might just see people work for the things they need and want. We are in a culture crisis.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 4:19am
Have been downtown. Son and I have been to Blast Furnace Pizza and then to the old time collectable store across the street from the pizza place. Son goes to Crabapple Books and adds to his book collection occasionally. Both of us were not overly impressed by the downtown activity on our Saturday afternoon visit. A lack of foot traffic was noticed by us and the downtown area seemed dead for a Saturday. Traffic on Central was decent and noticed as well. Most not stopping to park around the Broad St/Central Ave. "heart" of downtown though. Stores need more foot traffic to be more impressive. Still not happening as far as we could tell. Even an icon like the Jug has changed. To me, the taste of the food is not like it use to be and the prices are a tad bit high IMO. We go to the Jug occasionally but it is not on a routine basis. The Sonic theme for a drive-in is far from the old Jerry Brown's Frisch located where the now, out of business Mom's Restaurant was on S. Main St and Engle's Corner.THAT was a true drive-in falsely mimicked by Sonic. Don't think 50's when I go to Steak and Shake. Not really into paying 5 bucks for a cup of coffee at a downtown coffee house nor paying 15 bucks for a gourmet hamburger with a pickle and chips at one of the restaurants either. Can't justify the cost for what is served. As it stands now, the downtown store selection just doesn't interest me and doesn't offer anything I would want. Nice for the culture minded, artzy, specialty beer and coffee crowd I guess. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: itsamee
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 9:35am
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THree things? OK. AK Steel and their new research building, Kettering Health Center, the new River Center down by the bike path (oh, wait, I forgot, since you don't use any of these things they are worthless to you). Smith Park, year after year doing Light Up Middletown, the new High School / Middle School campus, Blast Furnace Pizza is good food, Rolling Mill and Fig Leaf Breweries, White Dog Saloon, The Windemere. I mean, if you open your eyes and quit trying to join the sadness around here, you will see a lot of positives. ------------- Itsa me, mario! |
Posted By: middiemom
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 10:55am
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Very well said itsame!!! ------------- Middletown... Bright past BRIGHTER FUTURE!!! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 12:53pm
itsamee, thought the subject was the downtown, not the East End. Kettering, AK Research, the new high school campus are not in the discussion. Yes, Blast Furnace Pizza was decent. Don't know about the breweries. Have not visited the River Center as yet. I will make a prediction though. Here goes....within five years, it will become a drug user, crime haven for those around the bike path corridor.It will be a hot spot for police and EMT calls for crime and drug overdoses. The crime and drug use will not be published for all to see as that would contribute yet more negative activity close to the S. Main St. residents. It will be hushed. Don't know about the Windemere as well. Not interested in what it has to offer. Smith Park is a nice city fixture, especially at this time of year. Nice display and a great effort by the Grandpa Gang every year. Been there a few times myself. I will give credit where credit is due and earned. Some businesses/owners in the downtown area have yet to earn any cudos so far. The empty storefronts which have been around for decades don't help the downtown cause as well. A measurable turnover in failed businesses over time tells all of us something about downtown opportunities as well. Downtown choices and interest points are limited at best. The Bash is as good as it gets as to crowd size and downtown offering interest. Not so sure whether the DORA provides enough of a boost to gain recognition either. I see some positives on occasion but wouldn't use the term "alot of positives" as you have done. The city takes some baby steps forward and some giant leaps backward at times in the planning. We all know the situation here. Some of us have a hard time admitting it. Difference in being an optimist and pessimist I guess. You and folks like middiemom are "glass is half full" people. I have seen enough city destruction to have a "glass is half empty" kind of opinion. Who's to say who is correct? Time and success (or failure) will teach us all. We are far from being the kind of city we should be after all the attempts that have been made over the decades. I still say the focus should be on the ENTIRE city, not just the downtown. If the downtown was near perfect as to operation, choices, citizen majority interest and importance, the rest of the city would still look like a reclamation project lacking in focus and development. It will be interesting to see where the city turns it's focus once the downtown has been satisfactorily completed. (if it ever gets there that is). Will they concentrate on the older neighborhoods or will they find some friends of the city/pet project that encompasses and benefits a small percentage of city residents like they seem to constantly do? Will stay tuned for the new focus. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: redbengals
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 1:44pm
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Hey do not forget the exciting things that Adkins is trying to waste money on at the airport ------------- Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors because I have better things to do and quite frankly do not care |
Posted By: itsamee
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 2:36pm
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My glass is half full because I moved here during the recession. This place was a ghost town. Downtown there was a Cricket Wireless store, the Red Cross (or was it the CDC) and Bucks. That was it. We had no reason to go down there unless we were passing through. Since then there have been a ton of things going on. Broad Street Bash, the parades (I know, those are pretty weak, but I am sure the crowdes spend money), the above mentioned shops and places to eat. A lot of buildings have had work done to make them look better. There are reasons to go there that were not there 12 years ago. As for the bike trail, I think the best thing that happened is it was handed over to the Butler County Parks. They have put signs up, maintained it well, and added the River Center (if it is like their other parks, there should be great activities for the kids there in the spring and summer). So yea, I am brimming with a bit more optimism, but that is because I moved into a city that looked like WW2 had just wrapped up. Now it is a passable downtown that could still use some polish, but hey, at least it is something. ------------- Itsa me, mario! |
Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 3:07pm
| VietVet personifies the hopeless and destitute kind of thinking that this city could do without. Why do you feel that if it doesn't entertain YOU that it is worthless? Do you really think that your generation will be the economic driver in any economy? I think not... Maybe you should get that drive through movie going again and see how that works out? |
Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 3:13pm
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Love your attitude itsamee! Positive people are hard to find on this forum.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 4:31pm
Never meant to speak only for myself as to interest in the downtown Historic House Guy. I believe that I offer the thoughts of the majority of Middletown when I offer my comments on downtown and it's attraction for most living here. I have been here long enough to know the complexion of this city. I know the majority living here are low to middle class working people who prefer beer to wine, NASCAR, sports excluding soccer, tennis, golf, etc. sticking with football, baseball and basketball as the primary sports interests. I know that they would prefer using the McD's dollar menu rather than going downtown for a gourmet burger/pickle and chips for 15 bucks. I know they won't buy art and couldn't afford the prices asked as well. Middletown, a blue collar, steel/factory worker/service oriented fast food town with moderate to low income people making up the majority. Are you serious? Yes, I really believe my generation, the Baby Boomers, have driven, are driving and will continue to drive the economy for many more years to come. We were the largest segment of the nation's society for many decades and now that we are retired, have income to continue to drive the nation's economy. We still are a very influential segment of society as an economic driver. Of course, that will end in the future and it will be the next largest generation to take our place. And finally......you and your comment "VietVet personifies the hopeless and destitute kind of thinking that this city could do without" Not quite yet House Guy. Not ready to give the stage to the new breed outsiders who have taken the city down the sewer the last four decades. Will continue to disagree with what they have done to a once nice city. You, on the other hand, have no clue just how nice this city was at one time. If you did, you would have been just as irate as I have always been since the leaders from the 70's to current ruined it. If the younger people would have lived here back then, you would be agreeing with my thoughts now. You and the other super positive people only know the present condition and think it is making a miraculous turnaround. You don't know you have a long way to go before you come close to the way it was. As a matter of fact, it has been decimated to the point where it may never match the good times again. You can thank the city leaders from the 70's to current for that fact. Dam them and all they have done to this town. House Guy.... "Maybe you should get that drive through movie going again and see how that works out?" C'mon House Guy. You and I both know modern technology has taken over and has wiped out the drive-ins and most of the movie theaters.(although the old Middletown Danberry is under new ownership and is re-inventing itself now) Not a good comparison in making your point. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Historic House Guy
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 6:23pm
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Stop you're whining and claims of being a victim of times gone bye.Grow a pair or get in the back of the line and let the next generation decide what is cool or not. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 6:45pm
| Keep your comments coming Vet, we need people who aren't afraid to say when the emperor has no clothes. "What is cool or not", smh. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 29 2018 at 7:57pm
Son, what in the hell is wrong with you? No mention of whining in my posts. No "victim of times gone by" whatever that is suppose to mean. Not a victim. Just a person who loves his hometown who is mad as hell at what they have done to it. More with an anger/in your face approach comparing the successful Middletown with what we have now. Grow a pair you say? Got a pair son. Was in a war.....remember? And you? Put up with life's bullsh*t for 70 years now. Can you make the same claim? What's your claim to fame in growing your pair? Let the next generation decide? Hell, the next generation is already doing that and screwing up most of what they touch while not considering what has worked in the past. The next generation contains heroin addicts, people with no goals in life and people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. And they are the kind of people you want to rely on for your future? And this kinder/gentler/everyone gets a trophy for participation/politically correct crap has got to go. It has ruined society. Some younger people are insolent, spoiled brats who want the credit all for themselves, are rude and who disrespect the older generations all while having their noses stuck to a cell phone screen. Think I want them to run things now? Way too much growing up for them to do before they take the controls. Going new with "new ideas" doesn't necessarily work. What is thought to be new at times is really old ideas reinvented by younger people who thought they came up with the idea to begin with. Hell, that's why Hollywood is pathetically trying to redo old movie classics. They are out of original ideas for entertainment so they pirate redos of the classics they know were a success at the box office. Never works on the redo. The next generation doesn't have a clue what is "cool or not". Hell, they don't have a clue what common sense and learning from the past is all about either. You have to acknowledge the past to know where you want to go in the future. What worked then may not work now but you still have to investigate past history to help navigate future events. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |