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Term Limits Sprouts wings in Middletown

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Pacman View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 20 2009 at 6:56am
I see the Charter Review Committee has recommended 2 term term limits for Middletown Council.  Hmmmm wonder if our little conversation on term limits here sparked that idea? Clap
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 1:32pm
Sounds like an excellent idea ! I told someone the other night at the meeting this is suppose to be a democracy and none of these city people are royalty. By the number of years some have served you would think they were kings or princes.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Beagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 1:38pm
I agree with term limits. I only hope there are enough qualified candidates willing to run.
John Beagle
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 1:45pm
brilliant analogy hermes
wish that I had thought of that one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2009 at 1:53pm
Hermes- would you be referring to Davy Schiavone and his 14 years or so on council? Not a king, nor a prince- just "Hiszhonor" the former Mayor who has been given "special favors" from time to time, most recently with the now departed BBQ Junction.
Hey, about term limits---- I can see an advantage if we have a collection on the school board or council like the current group. Two terms with these people may be a term too much for the city to endure. But--- what do we do if we happen to have a councilman or school board member that breaks the mold and actually has some common sense and gets things done that makes a difference? After the second term, they won't be there for us anymore. How do we eliminate the bad ones as soon as possible and retain the ones that actually care about the schools/city and will make competent, logical decisions on behalf of the people????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote da120757 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:37pm
and what exactly makes one a qualified candidate??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2000+ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 8:08am

Perhaps it might be wise to remember that none of these council folks ascended where they are by their own efforts - they were VOTED and PLACED there by the citizens - even if no one ran against them, the fault lies with us the VOTERS and those might-be candidates who chose not to run against them - at least in my opinion...As rankled as I am that Mulligan and Becker bought ($$$) their way into their council seat, I can't argue with the numbers that voted them in....

While I agree with term limits, I also voice Mr. Beagle's concern as to whether or not Middletown has enough tenacious souls to overturn after every term limit....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 9:28am
Council can overturn any recommendation from the Charter Committee. They won't go for the term limit thing and will throw it out immediately as that would limit their time in office knowing that they would almost be assured of re-election time and time as most run unopposed. Why approve limited time in office and give others a chance to occupy their throne behind the council desk on Tuesday nights? Furthermore, if there is a disruption in the continuing destruction of the city and having new people trying to fix this cluster, when (if) they do return to council, it will be that much harder for them to undo the good that has been done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 9:47am
That may be true Vet but we as Citizens can petition for term limits to be put on the ballot in an election and it has to be, regardless of what Council wants.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 9:56am
Pacman- In all honesty, what is the likelihood of the citizens banning together to petition anything in this town? IMO there is too much apathy among the people to get anything accomplished opposing city hall. He--, we on this forum who agree, don't want to get together to discuss issues to take to action (petition- whatever) and we all show passion about changing things. Imagine trying to involve the people who are not a part of this "passionate" forum and asking them for petition support. A waste of time with the current "I could care less" attitude most people take in town. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 10:17am
I think there are more people than you believe interested in change and are tired with what is going on in this City.  The question is how to organize them toward a common goal or goals. 
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 11:56am
Good point on the organizing comment. The answer to this comment is the key element to begin the cleaning out of the current deadwood and repairing the damage done. Anybody got any ideas on how to get the people who want change to participate? Several attempts have been made to no avail. Usually doesn't seem to be any interest after the first meeting. Mr. Kidd tried it at the old Montgomery Ward building several years ago and more recently, the group that met on Sundays at the Library tried to organize. Both didn't last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 1:42pm
I think a better way to do it Vet is to first setup a group of 5 or 6 or whatever the number may be and try to get some specific issues down on paper i.e. Term Limits, Section 8, Candidates, City Halls lack of response to its citizens, you get the idea.  You want to stay away from, "Oh my neighbor has 20 cats what are you going to do about it."
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 2:09pm
Pacman- we had agenda items at the Library meetings. The agenda items included the streets ( I brought some info from the street repair committee once for discussion), finances within the city, -- things that you are suggesting. We usually had 5 or 6 people attend. On one occasion, Scott-Jones and Marconi showed up and we had an interesting talk. Spider and Mike might remember that. The group became "disinterested" in meeting and just dissolved. I guess we all thought that meeting for the sole purpose of discussion was ok, but no one came up with a "ok, what do we do with our discussions and what is the next level to take them to". It just never materialized into something beyond the talk. Kind of like this forum. What do you say folks- do you all want to meet some Saturday to discuss how to take all these comments and put them to good use? November election time is getting closer and we still haven't talked about how we'll support the new people to oust the incumbants. They'll have their usual backers who normally are strong enough to put them over the top. We need to convince the voters outside the club to outnumber the club vote to seat these new people. Otherwise- we're stuck with the deadwood again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 2:33pm
Yes Vet I remember I was there.  That was what 1 1/2 years ago or so.  A lot has changed since then.  A lot more info has become public knowledge since then. 
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 3:20pm
Vet
I'm ready for a meeting now that I'm not spending all my free time at a cemetery..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 4:47pm

There probably won't be any meaningful effort put together by this group as long as the demeaning and insulting name-calling approach is dominant here. No one positive and credible will associate with those tactics.

People want change, however they want to do it in a constructive positive manner, led by positive team-building role models displaying an inclusive desire to involve everyone towards a new bonding of the citizens.
 
This forum has done a lot to make the right people aware of many situations. Hopefully the aftermath will produce a new, younger and gentler(but firm and un-wavering) group to pick up the torch.
 
The same group having the same type of meetings as prior will go nowhere. Get involved in the committees,boards and volunteer efforts and continue to positively spread the word at those venues. Bring the change softly from within.
 
The "in your face name-calling threatening approach" seldom works and hasn't worked here.
 
jmo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 7:04pm

Spiderjohn
I agree with you…..however for some reason it doesn’t work in this town. I have always liked the “lead by example” and "gather as you go"…..however it doesn’t seem to work in this town. The public committees and boards are lead my council members and the people have NO POWER or VOICE to help produce change. The will of the people is not being heard...thus the apathy of the people. How many times have we all heard "Why should I serve on that committee again?"

LEADERSHIP starts at the top....
If you form a committee for change pick two projects
1 short term and 1 long term.
Then make a detailed list of how to solve these problems.
Each member of the commtitee must have an active role.
We will need all the brain power we can get from young and old to solve these problems and bring change to Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 7:23pm
Spider- and specifically, what demeaning, insulting name calling are you referring to by this group? Get involved in committees, boards and volunteer efforts?- Did you not read the feedback from the people on this forum as it pertains to those committees? Did you not ascertain the general scenario of what was encountered while on those committees? Exclusion, ignoring ideas and comments, facial expressions of disapproval coming from club members on these committees as one spoke and asked questions that were apparently taboo? All were encountered by me on the Street Repair Committee and I know Mike has eluded to his experiences on exclusion of the Finance Committee. I respectfully disagree with you on taking the kinder-gentler approach. The people running this city can't be brought around with kinder-gentler. To them it's a sign of weakness. They must be forced out by an angry majority that uses hardline tactics to match their insistance of ignoring the masses. Just out of curiosity, what prompted this lecture to the forum on name calling and the proper approach to this subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote General Patton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 7:38pm

Spider -

I ask that you consider the planned demise of the HUD Consolidated Planning Committee.  You know some of these housing industry professionals and concerned target area neighborhood residents.  They were put out to pasture by the power brokers!  What on God's green earth leads you to believe that the occupants of One Donham Plaza really believe in meaningful citizen participation?  This time, I respectfully disagree with you.  I know first-hand of what I speak!!

General Patton

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 8:19pm
Yes to all of your ?s Vet.
If you can't find any derogatory personal comments here, then.............
I am as guilty as anyone else, and this ain't a f'n sermon.
I have been through all of those actions mentioned, however I didn't quit or go away.
I formed common bonds with many names who were supposed to be thinking "differently". It worked then, and CAN work elsewhere.
Just hold your place, and work your position from a warmer perspective.
It might work--It might not.
Keep voting, and add a few more votes with you each time.
Eventually you may lead the committee.
Eventually many like you(+ your new associates) will lead the other committees.
More constant involvement should lead to better candidates gaining the confidence to step forward into a more accepting system.
I am not talking about "bringing around" existing staff/Council.
I am talking about gradually building a better more powerfu concensus to change those in position, and change the municipal mindset thereafter.l
 
General--we are hardly newborns off the last bus--we pretty much all know first-hand what goes on around here. You might have good specific necessary information(please keep it coming), but it is just a small piece in completing this puzzle.
 
I have no problem with anyone here disagreeing, still it is my thinking.
Ya don't have to like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2009 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

 
The "in your face name-calling threatening approach" seldom works and hasn't worked here.
 
jmo
Spider,
It worked really well in 1776!!!
We just need enough people and enough COMMITMENT to follow through!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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