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COMBINED SEWERS

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 21 2013 at 10:14am

After watching the presentation of the new 300 million dollar Separation Sewer Plan required by EPA at last night council meeting I only have one question….
WHERE ARE ALL THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN COLLECTED OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS FOR THIS PROJECT?

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LMAO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 21 2013 at 10:57am
Wasted on "PET" projects.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 21 2013 at 11:03am
City Hall Magic with the past/present Finance Directors as the magicians.

Money is collected. Money is placed in the intended area in the budget. Money is moved, at a later date, to the General Fund where it loses it's intended purpose and identity. Money is funneled into other areas of interest like the downtown spectacle, special property purchases and salaries for friends of the city.

Likewise, what happened to the gas tax money intended for the streets the last three decades? (See above format for money flow)

The old switcherroo with nothing under any choice in the old shell game. Watch closely, as they are pros at making once visible money disappear.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 21 2013 at 11:51am
Hey, Les why don't you remind them of their "fiduciary responsibility" to other people's money???
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2013 at 9:21am
So.......You people have never pulled money from your savings account to pay for an emergency.............Or maybe you budgeted entertainment at one price and car expense at other................Then your transmission/engine/brakes/tires failed, did you maintain the same budget?    In a perfect world, budgets work......
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ktf1179 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2013 at 9:25am
It's not the transferring of funds that is the issue, it is what they have been spending it on that has been the issue.
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2013 at 10:54am
I am anything but a conspiratist, a thought provoking person thinking the government is behind all events that occur. Indeed, Most people are factual, pragmatic, and reasonable minded individuals.
 
If one reviews the history of Middletown, its history of corruption is rather startling to say the least. There is wire tapping in the jail over hearing attorney/ client communication, there is money spent insanely with no return nor logical explanation downtown when a former city manager said the downtown was dead and city council members, doing an about face,  there are payments of $75,000 to a small group of people aka MMF with no non profit disclosure nor filing at the state level, there are mis-statements (being diplomatic like the NY Times), that a former city manager stated repeated even at 25% reserve, that left the city only at 90 days to service its obligations; yet, for the past few years, its been dropped to 15%, with no mention that if a major unexpected event occurred, it would leave the city with a month cash reserve. Who is lying; former city manager or current city manager and council?
 
We heard annually, just like state, budget has to be balanced, yet, I have been reading Mayor Mulligan states the city has at least one year, perhaps, two, we are running a negative balance and deficit. This is a violation of the ordinance and Ohio's municipal statutes.
 
Les Landon states routinely in winter, the city has no compensatory obligation to repair a broken car part from a pothole, or other damage; yet, a major northeastern city early winter 2013, lost a judgment for damage and bodily  harm in the $ Mm range, about 4 Mm to be exact.
 
Now, the issue of collection of money for services to be used specifically just like public safety, is altered and not accounted. While one can move your own personal finances into one account to another, you are ABSOLUTELY incorrect, it is legal to do so in a municipality. Same goes for collection of funds, for one purpose, and used for another. I am MORE concerned money is misappropriated and unaccounted, than what it is used for. The ends DO NOT justify the means.
 
My gosh, a woman pulls out a campaign application a month before its due, and blows out two seasoned sitting council members. I believe many, on face, discount the seriousness of the irregularities that occur in Middletown quite commonly.
 
There will be a battle on double charge on street lights; make no mistake.         
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2013 at 10:56am
HdM:did you read the above post by VietVet. That pretty much sums up what's been happening in city council.
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Justsayin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Justsayin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2013 at 9:29pm
Look, Judy's boyfriend (Sam) is a life long Middletown artist who's dream has been to make downtown an art mecca. Ann Mort is Sam's life long best friend.  The M-twins are friends of Sam and Mort. Money is spent downtown like a drunken sailor. Mort and the Mulligans rubber stamps whatever Sam and Queen Judy want.  How many times has the queen remodeled her office over the last several years and at what cost?  All the worthless buildings?  Art buildings? Why is Greg Pratt constantly hired by Judy instead of using the city attorney? At what cost? The list goes on and on. The whole setup is a sorry shame at the expense of everyone in this town. It is pathetic. Wake up Middletown! Get rid of these people!
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 7:51am
I think you worry about too much......Legal , illegal......Come on, there is an affirmative defense to most  "illegal" actions...

The end don't justify the means.......................So the end result is to supply the citizens public services, Ok great. You basically saying that the city doesn't have the authority to move money as needed.........So if we collect and allocate money for street lights and something happens to the water supply infrastructure, then we just have lights at night but no water supplied to residents...................Yea that sounds like a plan ..

Sure on the surface if you look you will see corruption like processes............But has anyone ever dug deep and found the real reasons for the conspiracies that most are implying....

Don't get me wrong, I believe in an open government for all to see and question, decisions by those in charge are made with all the facts/opinions available to them... Those on outside question and apply their opinions hindsight and mostly without all the opinions and facts....

Like the supposedly wiretapping on an attorney/client in jail, do you know for a fact there wasn't a federal investigation in place allowing such an activity ?  

Bottomline , you have had water/sewer, roads to drive on, street lights, civil/criminal courts, fire, police and EMT services trash pickup and snow removal for at least 50 years .............So exactly what is your complaint..? 
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 10:10am

HdMechanical  - I think you worry about too much......Legal , illegal......Come on, there is an affirmative defense to most  "illegal" actions...

 

The end don't justify the means.......................So the end result is to supply the citizens public services, Ok great. You basically saying that the city doesn't have the authority to move money as needed.........So if we collect and allocate money for street lights and something happens to the water supply infrastructure, then we just have lights at night but no water supplied to residents...................Yea that sounds like a plan ..

 

Sure on the surface if you look you will see corruption like processes............But has anyone ever dug deep and found the real reasons for the conspiracies that most are implying....

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe in an open government for all to see and question, decisions by those in charge are made with all the facts/opinions available to them... Those on outside question and apply their opinions hindsight and mostly without all the opinions and facts....

 

Like the supposedly wiretapping on an attorney/client in jail, do you know for a fact there wasn't a federal investigation in place allowing such an activity ?  

 

Bottomline , you have had water/sewer, roads to drive on, street lights, civil/criminal courts, fire, police and EMT services trash pickup and snow removal for at least 50 years .............So exactly what is your complaint..? 

HdMechanical
    Sign in under your real name and we shall have a full discussion about the past actions of the City Hall and where all this money has gone….millions and millions of dollars. I’m more than willing to tell you exactly what my complaint is.
    WARNING…the old farts in this community DO REMEMBER why these charges were approved so many years ago.  
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 10:14am
Actually HdMechanical is my real name.......or shall we say my business name....I have no fear of using my name since I do on several other forums, a simple search on Ohio 's business gateway website for HdMechanical will yield the results you want or need... 

Steve Poff
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 10:40am
welcome HDM/whomever--your input is appreciated
 
the wiretapping incidents were widespread and absolutely illegal
maybe a fed case somewhere but few and far between
u r defending the in-defensible there
would be interesting to list any out-of-court $$ settlements there
 
city fund-shifting?
wouldn't be such an issue if the city WAS shifting funds openly to where they are actually needed to benefit the entire community--however "they" are moving money from dedicated areas into ?able and expensive property purchases followed by insider giveaways of the same properties + large $$s of re-hab cash---money taken from the city taxpayers to be given to multi-millionares who promise the moon and seldom deliver. If the city put conditions and requirements on these giveaways, then we might get better, quicker more meaningful results imo.  BUT-- our govt. gives it away with no such guarantees or timetables. Pendleton being a prime example--the Rose Building, First National and Masonic lately and the Manchester coming up shortly.
 
These large commercial properties used to pay substantial property taxes and house numerous mid/upper income taxpaying employees. Now we have next to none of either. And ALL in the same area with most of the recipients intertwined into the city inner circle. It would be very telling to read a graph/chart showing 40 years of expenditures/giveaways in our area formerly known as downtown, and the results as to jobs created, payrolls, retail/service sales and income/property taxes paid. You might be very surprised and better understand the concerns.
 
The rest of the city has been abandoned, other than haphazard property demos(long overdue) in order to fill requirements for using fed grant $$. We already have enough green space and brownfields/grayfields imo.
Drive around our city--particularly from Baltimore St up to Supthin and in Ward 2. More properties that are now not going to produce property tax OR be useful.
 
The recent local elections solved little.
Despite bold election time promises, no $$$ still =s no $$$, how the public safety fix will be handled should prove interesting. Can't wait to hear ?Mr.Picard's and Mrs.Bronston's solutions.
 
We now know that tax increases won't fly with voters, especially for public safety where we have been burned twice just in the last decade. An accounting of that tax $$(along with the sewer funding) might prove enlightening.
 
dig a little deeper------
 
jmo
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Perplexed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perplexed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 1:03pm
Spider -
 
Thank you for re-emphasizing my previous comments about haphazard residential demolition being carried out by Mr. Akins and staff in portions of Ward 2.  Many other MUSA participants need to drive down Baltimore, Crawford, Young, Garfield, Sutphin, etc.  I agree that this demolition derby will have a negative impact on those properties remaining.  Once again, there's a complete lack of project planning and analysis by the so-called Community Revitalization experts.  In June 2008 it was Paul Renwick, President of the Middletown Board of REALTORS who cautioned Queen Judith that any residential demolition plans in Ward 2 must be well thought out.  This was said during a heated exchange of the City Council Housing Subcommittee that was attended by six members of the Community Development Advisory Committee that was summarily scuttled in late 2008.  I never saw Miss Gilleland so red-faced.  After all, us commoners were never ever to disagree with her.  And, it was the Doogmeister who said that there wasn't any real need for the Advisory Committee as his actions were well monitored by HUD, Queen Judy, City Council and the Middletown Journal.  Queen Judy and Judge Doogie are cut from the same cloth.  Such a shame for Middletown.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 5:23pm
Well Mr. Poff
    I must say I’m shocked that you are a business owner and that you approve of City Hall raiding about 250 million dollars of the sewer separation funds for other items in the budget over the years.
    City Hall has robbed, raided, and raped every fund as they have tried to balance the budget over the years as the revenues diminished and the population declined each year…however the salaries of City Hall, Fire and Police continue to increase.
    City Halls last brilliant decision to increase the population, fill the empty housing stock, fill the schools and revenues for the city coffer was HUD’s Section 8 Program.…now City Hall wants to put these landlords out of business.
    City Hall has robbed Peter, Paul and Mary and within the next two years the City of
Middletown will be broke.
    The only thing left for the citizens of
Middletown is to stop FEEDING THE BEAST.

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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Well Mr. Poff
    I must say I’m shocked that you are a business owner and that you approve of City Hall raiding about 250 million dollars of the sewer separation funds for other items in the budget over the years.
    City Hall has robbed, raided, and raped every fund as they have tried to balance the budget over the years as the revenues diminished and the population declined each year…however the salaries of City Hall, Fire and Police continue to increase.
    City Halls last brilliant decision to increase the population, fill the empty housing stock, fill the schools and revenues for the city coffer was HUD’s Section 8 Program.…now City Hall wants to put these landlords out of business.
    City Hall has robbed Peter, Paul and Mary and within the next two years the City of
Middletown will be broke.
    The only thing left for the citizens of
Middletown is to stop FEEDING THE BEAST.


No one likes it, They done what they thought was necessary....Was it right , legal or illegal?  Who as citizens has the time, resources or information to go back and right a wrong?  Sometimes it is best to let an entity go broke. The police and fire increases are governed by union contracts (that is another story), the salaries of city employees are governed by contracts also... 

The only thing left to stop feeding the beast. I agree, thus the reason I vote against school levies. One would hope they would try different avenues to secure funding......

Or you could try bringing the beast down, one horn at a time. Fighting a corrupt system with the same corrupt system is useless. If you can single out the infected horn, then you have your first target.  United they stand , divided they fall. Zoom in on your target, bring their private and public life out in the open ..Question every decision, vote , and every penny they receive. Follow them around like the paparazzi. Let them commit political suicide or your information, politically assassinates them. Change the game, they have become comfortable with the rules. 

Maybe we need a WatchDog group in this area........Past is past , look to the future with lessons from the past. 

Shocked about them raiding the SS, not really...........So far the Police, Fire and EMTs are responding and doing what they do. My water runs and the toilet flushes, I am able to file small claim suits at the court. I fish in the city park with my children. The roads are pretty clear after snow falls, and some are even getting repairs.....Been ongoing for 50 years. 

What else are you wanting from your city...?

Articulate a concern which can be addressed, can be righted and will benefit the citizens of Middletown....What is the first step in your eyes ?  
 

Just brainstorming......
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 8:57pm
Step one get rid of Gilleland followed by Adkins then Kohler. Elect another mayor that doesn't have the name Mulligan probably send Landen packing too. That's a start IMO
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 09 2013 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by over the hill over the hill wrote:

Step one get rid of Gilleland

Why?
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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 12:54am

No use to resist any more, Middletown is broke and will soon be the sh*t hole that the city leader have strived for over the years. Only thing left to do is cut ones losses and get the hell out of dodge jmo. That is unless you belong to the ritzy downtown crowd which I'm sure will thrive in their self created (with money that they stole from other uses) lala land.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 6:34am
Originally posted by Justsayin Justsayin wrote:

Look, Judy's boyfriend (Sam) is a life long Middletown artist who's dream has been to make downtown an art mecca. Ann Mort is Sam's life long best friend.  The M-twins are friends of Sam and Mort. Money is spent downtown like a drunken sailor. Mort and the Mulligans rubber stamps whatever Sam and Queen Judy want.  How many times has the queen remodeled her office over the last several years and at what cost?  All the worthless buildings?  Art buildings? Why is Greg Pratt constantly hired by Judy instead of using the city attorney? At what cost? The list goes on and on. The whole setup is a sorry shame at the expense of everyone in this town. It is pathetic. Wake up Middletown! Get rid of these people!

The only way people in Middletown are going to wake up is when people get tired of being screwed, ignored, and they see their taxes going up. Just like the Health Care Law, people are now realizing the they have been lied too, and they are now starting to take action. 
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 10:37am
What is the first step in your eyes ?  

If this was a company that I had purchased I would do the following within the first 7 days:

1. Change accounting system, fewer accounts with more restricted accounts.
2. Reduce wages for City Hall, Fire and Police to 60 percent of yearly revenues.

But City Council will never take action on either of the above.
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

What is the first step in your eyes ?  

If this was a company that I had purchased I would do the following within the first 7 days:

1. Change accounting system, fewer accounts with more restricted accounts.
2. Reduce wages for City Hall, Fire and Police to 60 percent of yearly revenues.

But City Council will never take action on either of the above.

Why , what are the benefits ? 

You want change, you have to be able to articulate why. 

In case you have not noticed this city budget thing and school funding issues are ongoing in almost every city across the nation..... 

So, you think wages of city employees should collectively be 60% of gross yearly revenues or net yearly revenues ....You still  have equipment maintenance ,  overhead and supplies. Do you consider employee health benefits/ retirement packages a wage or an extra unneeded cost ?

Just curious, have you actually run the numbers on the costs of raising a family and supplying them with the needed  resources to grow up and become a fully vested member of the community ? Education, proper healthcare, proper eating habits, a clean and  maintained home. Plus the parents having enough income left over to invest for their retirement, so they do not become a burden on society in the latter years.. 

Fire at will.............. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by ktf1179 ktf1179 wrote:

Originally posted by Justsayin Justsayin wrote:

Look, Judy's boyfriend (Sam) is a life long Middletown artist who's dream has been to make downtown an art mecca. Ann Mort is Sam's life long best friend.  The M-twins are friends of Sam and Mort. Money is spent downtown like a drunken sailor. Mort and the Mulligans rubber stamps whatever Sam and Queen Judy want.  How many times has the queen remodeled her office over the last several years and at what cost?  All the worthless buildings?  Art buildings? Why is Greg Pratt constantly hired by Judy instead of using the city attorney? At what cost? The list goes on and on. The whole setup is a sorry shame at the expense of everyone in this town. It is pathetic. Wake up Middletown! Get rid of these people!

The only way people in Middletown are going to wake up is when people get tired of being screwed, ignored, and they see their taxes going up. Just like the Health Care Law, people are now realizing the they have been lied too, and they are now starting to take action. 


When you need extra money at home......You cut corners or increase household income.........If right now  the city had all top level management work for free, cut all staffing 20% across the board............Guess what, at current and projected future revenue increases..........They will be in the same boat, in 3 years.

So which is it, cut costs or increase revenue.......?
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 12:26pm
pretty tough to do either at this time
a real problem
your prior post goes WAY beyond city issues, bringing in separate personal situations
they really don't mix, though both must be considered
 
what are your solutions hdm?
It can't continue as it is trending--and there is no additionl revenue to tap in to
tax increases are not feasible--public has no extra $$, and local govt is not a good shepard of public funds
like the schools--no amount is enough
govt is still the problem more than the solution
 
look no further than the former downtown...
the roi from decades of municipal investment is negligible
the only moves coforward have come recently from private investment/businesses
 
you talk in circles, downplaying legit local(also national/global) concerns, and rationalizing govt waste
how do you want to control the beast or make it work better for the totality?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 10 2013 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

pretty tough to do either at this time
a real problem
your prior post goes WAY beyond city issues, bringing in separate personal situations
they really don't mix, though both must be considered
 
what are your solutions hdm?
It can't continue as it is trending--and there is no additionl revenue to tap in to
tax increases are not feasible--public has no extra $$, and local govt is not a good shepard of public funds
like the schools--no amount is enough
govt is still the problem more than the solution
 
look no further than the former downtown...
the roi from decades of municipal investment is negligible
the only moves coforward have come recently from private investment/businesses
 
you talk in circles, downplaying legit local(also national/global) concerns, and rationalizing govt waste
how do you want to control the beast or make it work better for the totality?

You are correct, this is not a single point issue.......You must understand the problem to fix it. This did not happen overnight.

We are all looking for solutions, I research and engage on forums to collectively brainstorm... I constantly see people put blame on local governments for mis handling ......Sure there is waste, everywhere is waste, I can find waste in your budget....But with proper control, that waste can be overcome provided the resources are available..

In business we rely on the public to spend money....Governments rely on the public to make money and spend money, when either one takes a hit ,the government is scrambling for revenues. It is a vicious circle, Government pumps $80 million into butler county via food stamps ...Who benefits?  To us a Nickle increase means little, take that nickle away from an entity that rely on that nickle a billion times .....You will have Chaos.

Jobs, is the overall answer.......Period.  Right now the cities are being shutdown by those who vote , because they are feeling the pinch and seeing no changes. Cities are throwing their hands in the air and moving money around to survive. After a few years and no increase in revenues, with no excess to store back.......The scramble has began, you will not need to worry about cuts to city services they will get done and  they will hope revenues increase soon .....But like last time, No increase and cuts will happen again.. 

Mergers will on the horizon , either complete cities or services. Pretty soon we will start seeing more and more multi generation households and that will add to the tax revenues problems. 

More and more citizens are becoming self-reliant , going green and using less services/products which the government has based their revenues on....

Citizens cutting costs = Governments in the red..........
 
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