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Great Miami River Bike Path Flooding??

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    Posted: Mar 06 2018 at 4:54pm
Recent photos published in the MJ show considerable flooding along the Great Miami River causing damage to the bike path.  They seem to indicate that the Bi-Centennial Commons frontage and other adjoining nearby areas are either under water or even washed out.  Can anyone confirm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 06 2018 at 8:43pm
Haven't read anything about this in the Journal. If true, one must wonder about the placement of the newly planned fancy building they are going to build. If this area is prone to flooding with any heavy rain, just wonder if it will see the same fate as the Bicentennial Commons and the bike path. Still, with the planning people aware of this potential problem, and knowing the city's history on failed project attempts, it wouldn't surprise me if they placed the building right in the middle of the disaster area.

Sure has been a long time since we first heard about the plans to build this bike path/river front/rest stop/gathering point for potential homeless people-drug users-prostitutes to frequent. Still haven't broken ground for it have they?

Between the Bicentennial Commons, the AK Pavillion, the bike path and the attempt at building a lake by the river, there has been millions in city money wasted yielding no return on investment. Now, I presume, more city money will be used for this new building with questionable returns on it as well.

Might be a case of the city leaders being AWOL in the common sense department once again. They never learn by their failures do they.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 06 2018 at 9:23pm
What am I missing about the Miami River?  Why are people so enamored by it?  I used to call it the 'Great Miami Drainage Ditch' simply because its dirty, full of scary fish and polluted.

Who wants to ride a bike next to that?

Funny - there was a woman at the council meeting tonight that was presenting something (who knows too hard to hear in there - apparently now councilpersons are allowed to ask questions - but the way they keep people from knowing what the heck is going on is by being totally inaudible to the gallery.....) about how our bike path is connecting to others and someone could ride all the friggin' way to PIQUA!  I don't want to go the 2 miles on the Middletown path - who is going to pedal to PIQUA?!?!??!?!?
"Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it."—Henry David Thoreau
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 7:48am
While on the subject of the bike path, just wondering how many people use it on a weekly basis. Is it 1% of the population? 5%? Any of you folks who frequent the river area/bike path see many people using the path? In your opinion, was the money spent on the bike path worth the return on investment?

Let's see......

Town has acquired more poverty thanks to the overflow of low income/HUD recipients.

Town has let the streets go for so long it will take millions and decades to bring them up to acceptable standards.

Town stood by and watched Armco/AK Steel downsize from 9600 employees in the 60's and 70's to around 2300 today without trying to replace the jobs lost shortly thereafter.

Town saw all the decent paying jobs at the numerous paper mills close and didn't lift a finger to replace those lost jobs as well.

Town has seen the school system go from a respected district both in academics and sports to a last place disaster in both categories.

Town has seen a drastic increase in druggies in town with mega numbers in the overdose area, straining the medics, police and fire departments.

Town has seen reduced shopping amenities, entertainment options and general malaise over the last four decades. Many shopping locations once active are now deserted.

Town has seen it's once decent reputation dragged through the mud in the eyes of the surrounding communities while those same communities have gone the opposite direction toward more prosperity.

Town has spent millions force fitting an arts/cultural theme downtown with only mediocre success to date. The demographics of the city are polar opposites of arts/culture city leaders. It is blue collar and always has been. It is time you recognized that fact.

Town has loaned taxpayer money and moved funds from one account to another to aid friends and shady developers with few positive results to date in the downtown area.......some money fund movements allegedly have been illegal as well.


And here we are talking about a bike path, a new bike path rec center, flooding and money spent in a futile attempt to develop the river front.

So many problems and failed ventures left unsolved over the years by weak, ineffective leadership with no common sense nor ability to prioritize what is really important in growing this city. So many plans and dreams offered by city leaders that always die on the vine and never are heard from again. Incompetence at it's best. Sad to see.


I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:


Who wants to ride a bike next to that?

  
  
Maybe go for a walk down there and check it out? There are a lot of people who enjoy the path, especially runners and bike riders. A lot of the views are very nice. 
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 07 2018 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by itsamee itsamee wrote:


Originally posted by buddhalite buddhalite wrote:


Who wants to ride a bike next to that?

  
  
Maybe go for a walk down there and check it out? There are a lot of people who enjoy the path, especially runners and bike riders. A lot of the views are very nice. 


Interesting observation itsamee.

You said "there are a lot of people who enjoy the path, especially runners and bike riders"

Just curious. How many runners and bike riders use the path each day in your humble opinion? Of course, there is no way to know how many are from Middletown as opposed to surrounding communities to assess only Middletown participation.

Do you think the numbers would approach 100 or more each day? I would think there would be more runners and bikers on the weekend and the numbers would drop off during the week and in inclement weather.

My contention is that for the money spent, and considering the population percent in this community being less than 3% as to users of the path, I submit it is not worth the money spent to build and maintain the path. Remember when they had erosion issues and the path caved in a while ago? City money was used to build/maintain it that could have been put to better use IMO. Couple that with the wasted money for Bicentennial Commons and the failed Lake Middletown attempt and it only adds insult to injury along the river area.

If Middletown was in decent shape in all facets, this would be a nice ammenity. As it is now, because the city is struggling, instead of this being a nice extra for the city, it is another money wasting source the city can ill afford. The bike path should be on the agenda after all other basics have been taken care of. It was constructed because a select few health conscience people wanted it done. Hardly a majority approval by city residents. They never asked the people if they wanted it. They just went and did it on their own. Classic cart before the horse mentality by city officials. Again, another demonstration that they don't have a clue how to prioritize important projects this town needs.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 10:57am
Vet,  
I cannot tell you the numbers, but I would say on a weekend the paths get heavy use (from personal experience, I don't have any insider info). I am down there during the week and the areas near some of the parking lots are probably the most traveled. I would say 100 people a day easy would be easy as I see 5-10 cars per parking lot area, with the most probably down by Trenton.  During the week I am usually passing or passed by a lot of riders and runners down by the Briel / 73 parking lot. Also, a lot of people use the entrances to go fish.  
Saturday and Sunday mornings I see a lot more. 
I know that the county is building that new nature center by the Pavilion. I think that will be a great addition as the one thing the path is missing are bathrooms and water fountains. I think that will help the athletes a lot more, along with some of the Butler County programs the parks system often has.    
That being said, I thought the parks system had assumed control of the bike path and it was no longer on the city to maintain it. Can anyone confirm that?
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 11:01am
Sorry for the double post, but yea, the trails in Butler County are maintained by the parks system: https://www.yourmetroparks.net/parks/great-miami-river-trail
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 1:51pm
FWIW - I was just down there.  Zip, zero, nada.  Granted it's cold and lightly snowing - but there was nothing happening.

I'm with VietVet on this one - is this really worth the money we've funnelled into it over these many years?

Even if 500 people used it everyday - would it still be worth it?

I'm more convinced everyday that 300 people (the ones on S main in the big houses) are the only people interested in pretty much anything going on downtown.  It's time to stop the bleeding and let a sleeping dog lie.

Jobs are the key - and this ain't field of dreams.
"Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it."—Henry David Thoreau
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 4:17pm
Buddah,  
  
Yea, I don't think a 35 degree day will give you the best day to see how a bike path is doing. In addition, while the parking by the paper plant may have some cars, other areas tend to be more active.    
As far as the downtown goes, I think we have to let bygones be bygones. I think it is wise for the downtown to continue on its trajectory towards being more like Miamisburg. Just a place where "stuff" happens. Breweries, galleries, places to eat, etc. The real attraction is by the highway where you see REAL development. AK Steel, Atrium, Kettering and all that. Why? Because 75 is easier to access. At some point they are going to run out of room between Liberty and Austin Landing and that means more development from Monroe to Middletown to Franklin. What do you do with all the old infrastructure? Demo it or use it.   
Miamisburg and Hamilton get this and they have kept their small cities thriving, and downtown Middletown has jumped on this as well. When I moved here a decade ago there was NOTHING down there. Not a thing. I take that back, there was a Cricket wireless store. Then all these people moved in and started making things happen. I am all for it. That downtown is never going to be the hub of anything except socializing. It will be a place where you go to eat, buy a bike, or walk around. Why not? It's better than it was when I moved in. 
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 6:39pm
Itsamee,

Look, I don't necessarily disagree - but Miamisburg isn't hard to access.  Get off 75 - turn left and you don't have to go through 200 empty run-down windows cracked storefronts and a decrepit about to fall over theater to get there.

Hamilton - well, take Route 4 or the Highway to nowhere and you have mainstream 4 lane access in all directions to Hamiltucky.

Middletown - however - doesn't have the same downtown accessibility.  Years ago I heard someone who is in Heaven now say the following: "I told all them turkeys (city leaders, council, etc.) that if they don't let that highway come through downtown (I-75) they wouldn't live to regret it - but their GRANDKIDS will RUE THE DAY!"

How prescient he was.

You are correct - the I-75 corridor is great for the city - but when zoning commissions allow grafting and pressure from big money/hospitals/etc. to kill projects - you can bet that even that growth will skip right over us and go on to Franklin (who by the way doesn't know the word NO) and we'll lose out once again.

Remember those outlets?  Where were they going to be built? We resist and resist - and we make prime commercial real estate at the interstate into RESIDENTIAL lots!  Not exactly business friendly.  We need to make it all commercial, develop the snot out of it before we lose the ability to do so.
"Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it."—Henry David Thoreau
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote MattR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 08 2018 at 7:20pm
The bike path pavilion is next to one of the combined sewer outfalls.  Thanks to city hall you will be enjoying the festering stench while at the pavilion for years to come.  Remember; its a win-win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 11:48am
Buddah,  

Hamilton and Miamisburg are both hard to get to. Miamisburg is about like Middletown, except you can make a right turn and hit their malls. But if you want the old down town, its 10 minutes to the left. Hamilton is even less accessible. They just got lucky they are the county seat and could get 129 to allow access. 

I think, and I am not trying to defend those in charge now vs. the ones that were before I got here, you will see a lot less of what happened with the outlet malls. I still think that what it is becoming over there is a good thing and it should continue to move that direction. The downtown is what it is. It should continue to move that way. There is no way you are going to attract a large company there who will put their headquarters down there, or a large manufacturing plant. Those ideas are dead. The city needs to focus on economic growth by the highway and keep turing the downtown into the social destination it is.  If we could get some larger events to happen (like the Turkey Trot in Miamisburg) down there, it would be pretty sweet.  
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itsamee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 11:49am
Matt,  
What are you even talking about? The smell down there is from the paper plant, first and foremost. I have run the entirety of that path many, many times. The only smell I have ever come across was from the paper plant. 
Itsa me, mario!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 2:08pm
itsamee:

"I know that the county is building that new nature center by the Pavilion. I think that will be a great addition as the one thing the path is missing are bathrooms and water fountains. I think that will help the athletes a lot more, along with some of the Butler County programs the parks system often has."


And I can respect your "glass is half full" response here. I hope you are correct. My "glass is half empty" approach tells me that within a short time after the Pavilion is built and operational, we will be reading in the Journal where the police are now stationing an officer at this location to monitor and arrest the prostitutes, drug users and other potential criminals that will eventually migrate to the Pavilion. Historically, we read articles about crime in the downtown area which includes the riverfront. I predict, in time, we will be reading police reports concerning this location. It will present a perfect hunting ground for the criminal elements listed above.


As to the discussion concerning the water basin proposal at Sunset Park, my first thoughts centered around the removal and fill of the swimming pool there. I find it a tad bit humorous that they filled in the pool and now are proposing digging another hole in proximity to where the pool was. So the folks around Sunset lost a swimming pool but are gaining a retention basin for water runoff. Wonder if they think that is a fair trade off. Wonder which properties surrounding the park will have the pleasure of having this basin in their front yard? Wonder if it will be on the Bellemonte end, Milton end or the Kenwood end of the park. (Not sure on Kenwood here) Why not place the basin on the old Roosevelt school land by the old track and tennis courts and leave the park undisturbed? .....or is that land too high in elevation for that? What else would the old school site be used for?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MattR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 7:38pm
The canal is one of the combined sewer outfalls in the city.  Sanitary sewage is combined with stormwater at that point.  The paper plant is the primary contributor.  A complicating factor is the damage that was done to the point where the canal flows into the river by the dredging that was done by the city, causing the canal to stagnate at that point.  Your tax dollars at work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote MattR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2018 at 3:28pm
See wwwapp.epa.ohio.gov/dsw/maps/cso/index.php  even.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2018 at 4:13pm
Ok, an article in the Journal today about the bike path building they are now constructing by Bicentennial Commons and the AK Pavilion.

Seems the lady in the article seems to think this is going to be a major draw for the river front with 80 miles of continuous bike path usage in the Middletown/Franklin area.

Yep, according to Adkins and this spokesperson for the Metro parks, this will be the real deal as to making the riverfront a major attraction for the downtown area. (This is riverfront development effort number two. Number one was the Bicentennial Commons, the AK Pavilion and the failed Lake Middletown, all of which have been used sparingly to say the least the last decade or two)

Wish them luck on that. Still wondering just how many will benefit who will be the potential users of this facility. (How many bike riders and path walkers are there when compared to the overall population of the area? If a small number, is all of this really worth the effort?)

OR.....will it eventually become an eyesore where no one goes because the prostitutes and drug users will use it as their haven, negating the positive vibe for which is was intended.....

Time will tell for all of us whether this will be a success or just another white elephant for the city. We will be watching Mr. Adkins and company.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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