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Middletown Fall 2013 Voter Guide

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ktf1179 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:06pm
Mort Supporters outside of Creekview Elementary 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:37am
Too late for write-in candidates.  Even write-in candidates have to register with the Board of Elections ahead of time.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

Vet,
 

Then look at it this way:

 

Would you rather have the pompous, supercilious, ill-informed Rev. Tyus???

 

If you vote for no one, that is who you are likely to get.


Need some write-in candidates that are all opposed to the levy and want to see quicker, upwardly mobile results for the money spent. If all support the levy, it won't make any difference to me. No one on the school board has seen the light as far as I'm concerned. Business as usual for another term. Again, cookie cutter candidates, with no individual, alternative thinking offered to the public. Sad.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:18am
Vet,
 
Then look at it this way:
 
Would you rather have the pompous, supercilious, ill-informed Rev. Tyus???
 
If you vote for no one, that is who you are likely to get.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

Vet,
 

I understand your position.  However, all four candidates (three plus a write-in) support the levy...so there is no difference among them on this single issue.

 

In my humble opinion, the best of this field (being able to vote for two) are Ms. Andrew and Mr. McClure.


Understand Mike. Just frustrating to know that there is no choice for me if all support the levy. McClure had his chance, and, as I recall, gave us more of the same old same old. Cookie cutter candidates, all of them. No one running who sees the lack of reasonable progress pace nor who wants to fight for the wallets of the people. Incredible that all think that new schools will make a difference. Do they not see that the first levy approval was not worth the money spent versus the return? Where is the ability to assess the situation? Mercy.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:53am
Vet,
 
I understand your position.  However, all four candidates (three plus a write-in) support the levy...so there is no difference among them on this single issue.
 
In my humble opinion, the best of this field (being able to vote for two) are Ms. Andrew and Mr. McClure.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 05 2013 at 6:41am
Originally posted by Austin Young Austin Young wrote:

I'll be supporting Andrew and Tyus for school board. As a college student I feel my education from Middletown has been sufficient but lacked 21st century materials for example science labs. The labs at Middletown lacked the environment and materials that I am experiencing in college. The bond issue is important and I hope this example for a recent MCSD graduate will be informative.


Good that you feel that way Mr. Young, but it is time for a change. Voting for the same old guard, especially Tyus, who has been a career fixture behind the desk for far too long, will yield only more stagnation and, at best, snails pace progress. It'll never change unless we change the players/approach. It has been decades since we have had decent schools here. If progress has been made, it has come far too slowly with a monumental sum of money spent supporting that slow growth. Not a good ROI so far IMO. We need new people who can offer more meaningful progress instead of the standard features we have now. It just isn't happening fast enough nor with enough results. "It'll take more time" has lost it's luster after hearing it for decades. Time has run out on the programs that have been initiated. Time for a direction change with new people. Time for people to start getting their money's worth. Building new and changing the physical attributes of the district won't make a difference. Just make it "prettier". Changing what goes on inside the buildings (old or new) will. JMO
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Historic House Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 04 2013 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Marcia Andrew Marcia Andrew wrote:

Acclaro, the reason we are seeking funds for a new middle school and renovated high school is NOT to expand capacity; it is to improve safety and efficiency and to modernize classrooms to meet the needs of the 21st Century.  The state has done studies to forecast enrollment and predicts basically flat enrollment for Middletown.  The plans for the new/renovated buildings would keep student capacity about the same as now.


How about meeting the needs of the 20th century by providing enough books so kids can do their HOMEwork at HOME like we all remember doing? If you want to help the community and provide a good education, how about starting with some common core value?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Austin Young Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 03 2013 at 8:39pm
I'll be supporting Andrew and Tyus for school board. As a college student I feel my education from Middletown has been sufficient but lacked 21st century materials for example science labs. The labs at Middletown lacked the environment and materials that I am experiencing in college. The bond issue is important and I hope this example for a recent MCSD graduate will be informative.
Young
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 3:34pm
Vet, you ARE asking me to repeat myself. The data in the 2012-13 report from acclaro is the exact same data that we were discussing in the other thread.  And that data doesn't show any 5 year trends, toward mediocrity or otherwise.  It is a one-year snapshot only.  The only exception is the Value Added grade (shown as "Progress") in which the district earned an A.  That shows the one-year improvement (from 2011-12 to 2012-13).  To see the difference from 5 years ago, I had to go online and pull scores from 5 years ago.
 
Please re-read the other thread. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 2:23pm
Ms. Andrew:

"Vet, I discussed these report card results for the most recent school year at length (with you) in the discussion headed "Report Cards Are In." I am not going to repeat"

IF YOU RE-READ MY QUESTION ABOVE, MS. ANDREW, I DID NOT ASK YOU TO REPEAT ANYTHING. I ASK YOU HOW YOU FELT ABOUT ACCLARO'S ARTICLE AS TO THE DATA IT PRESENTS.

Ms. Andrew:

"In short, there is nothing inconsistent between these results and my comparison of the results from 5 years ago"

SO, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, THE DATA IN THE 2012-2013 REPORT FROM ACCLARO IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE DATA FROM 2007-2008? NO EYE-OPENING PROGRESS IN FIVE YEARS? WAIT A MINUTE.....YOU PRESENTED DATA LISTED ABOVE IN YOUR POST THAT INDICATES THAT THERE WAS IMPROVEMENT IN MOST GRADES IN MATH AND SCIENCE BETWEEN PRE-NEW SCHOOLS AND POST-NEW SCHOOLS. YOUR DATA SHOWS MEASUREABLE IMPROVEMENT IN PERCENTAGES. ACCLARO'S DATA SHOWS A TREND TOWARD MEDIOCRITY IN LETTER GRADES, INCLUDING, IN SOME CASES, FAILURE. HOW CAN WE HAVE PERCENTILE DATA SHOWING IMPROVEMENT FROM YOU AND A REPORT FROM THE STATE SHOWING THAT'S NOT THE CASE? SOMEONE IS WRONG, AREN'T THEY?

Ms. Andrew:

"When you start at 30 -40% passing in some grades/subjects, it takes a while to get to the magic, arbitrary cutoff of 75% passing that the State has determined to be the measure of success"

OK, LET'S DISCUSS THE TIME IT HAS TAKEN TO GET YOUR STUDENTS TO REACH "THE ARBITRARY CUTOFF OF 75%". HOW LONG HAS THIS PROFICIENCY TESTING BEEN AROUND NOW? OVER A DECADE? 15 YEARS PERHAPS? GIVEN THE FACT THAT EVERYONE, BOTH HIGH END DISTRICTS LIKE LAKOTA, MASON AND SPRINGBORO, AS WELL AS URBAN, LOWER END DiSTRICTS LIKE HAMILTON AND MIDDLETOWN.....ALL STARTING ON THE SAME DAY WITH PROFICIENCIES, RIGHT? WE ALL CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THE HIGHER END DISTRICTS ACHIEVED SUCCESS SO QUICKLY.....THEY HAD LESS ISSUES, HAD "BETTER CLIENTELE" TO WORK WITH, HAD COOPERATIVE PARENTS WHO VALUE EDUCATION, WILLING TO WORK WITH THE SCHOOLS, AND HAD MORE MONEY TO DO IT WITH THROUGH HIGH PROPERTY TAXES. EASY ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND AS TO THEIR SUCCESS. BUT HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN OTHER DISTRICTS, JUST AS POOR AS MIDDLETOWN, WITH THE SAME DEMOGRAPHICS AND THE SAME ISSUES, HAVING A BETTER TRACK RECORD OF SUCCESS, IN TEST SCORES, DISTRICT RATINGS AND INDICATORS MET? SIMILAR COMMUNITIES WITH SIMILAR PROBLEMS, BUT SOME FARED MUCH BETTER THAN OTHERS. WHAT DID THEY KNOW THAT GOT THEM TO ACCEPTABLE LONG BEFORE MIDDLETOWN,WHICH IS STILL MUDDLING IT'S WAY TO ACCEPTABLE AFTER ALL THIS TIME? IE....WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO GET TO THE BOTTOM RUNG OF THE ACCEPTABLE LADDER WHEN THE MAJORITY OF DISTRICTS ARE ALREADY HALF WAY TO THE TOP? IS IT THE LITTLE MIAMI SCHOOL DISTRICT OR IS IT THE NEW MIAMI SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT IS A POOR DISTRICT BUT MANAGES TO DO WELL IN ACADEMICS? NEVER CAN REMEMBER WHICH ONE. ROSS ISN'T EXACTLY THE NEXT LAKOTA OR MASON AS TO STATUS AND WEALTH BUT THEY DO REAL WELL IN ACADEMIC RATINGS, DON'T THEY? WHY?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 1:25pm
Vet, I discussed these report card results for the most recent school year at length (with you) in the discussion headed "Report Cards Are In."  I am not going to repeat.  In short, there is nothing inconsistent between these results and my comparison of the results from 5 years ago.  The data shows -- as I have been saying for 5 years -- that the Middletown School District is slowly increasing the student test scores, but the percentage of passing students is still below where we want it to be.  When you start at 30 -40% passing in some grades/subjects, it takes a while to get to the magic, arbitrary cutoff of 75% passing that the State has determined to be the measure of success. 
 
ktf, we would like to have more data on what happens to our graduates after they graduate, too, but it is mostly not available to us.  We do have an exit survey for seniors as to their plans, but it is their choice to fill it out and not all do.  I don't have the results with me, but a good percentage (my memory is more than 50% but less than 75%) go on to college.  We don't know whether they graduate from college or in how many years.. I think the state is making some changes that will provide high schools with more information about how their graduates do in college--at least if they go to Ohio public universities.  We have no data on type of jobs, crimes, welfare, etc, other than general data that show that high school graduates are much less likely to go to jail or be on welfare than dropouts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 7:57am
I am curious to find out what is happening to these students after they graduate? Are they going to college? What type of jobs are they working? How many end up committing crimes? and How many needs Government Assistance? To me that is how school performance should be judged, by what the former students are doing in the Real World, and not by some government officials coming up with a grading system they think is correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 6:08am
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:




http://reportcard.education.ohio.gov/Pages/District-Report.aspx?DistrictIRN=044404
 
 
 



Interesting acclaro.

2012-2013 school year

Grad Rate - F/D

Gap Closing (answers the question- is every student succeeding?)- F

Achievement Perf Index- C

Indicators Met- F

Progress Overall- A

Gifted- C

Don't understand how the overall rating can be an A when the majority of the letter ratings are a C or below.

Not that great, right? Kinda conflicts with the good news on the comparison from 2008 to current on percentages for elementary kids posted by Ms. Andrew. Guess the same set of statistics can be viewed by 10 people resulting in 10 different assessments on whether the glass is half full or half empty. Doesn't this tell us that post new schools hasn't really given us any advantage?

What do you think about this report Ms. Andrew?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 1:08am
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2013 at 12:48am
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 3:44pm
To repeat, I am not saying that a new school building will, by itself, improve test scores.  There are many factors that impact student performance on standardized tests, and the district has initiatives in place to address the factors that we have some control over.
 
HOWEVER, to respond to the several posters who state that test scores have not gone up since the new elementary schools were built, here is the data:
 
3 new schools and 1 renovated school were ready for the 2006-07 school year.  The other 3 new elementary schools and 1 more renovated school were opened for the 2008-09 school year.  So, 2007-08 was the last year before all K-5 students attended new buildings.  Here are the scores for the 2008 school year, compared to last year 2013:
 
3rd grade reading: 2008--65.8% pass    2013--73.6% pass
3rd grade math:     2008--61.5% pass    2013--69.5% pass
 
4th grade reading: 2008--65.3% pass     2013--82.3% pass
4th grade math:     2008--51.3% pass     2013--70.6% pass
 
5th grade reading: 2008--57.1% pass     2013--66.4% pass
5th grade math:     2008--36.7% pass     2013--58.6% pass
5th grade science: 2008--42.4% pass     2013--47.5% pass
 
From 2008 to 2013, the Performance Index score (a composite of the overall test results for all tested grades and subjects) rose from 80.0 to 88.5.
 
THe percentage of students who passed went up in every subject grades 3 through 5 (the grades in the elementary schools).  I am not claiming this increase was the result of new buildings.  The district was implementing a number of programs during this time to improve teaching and raise test scores.  I am just saying, it is demonstrably false to say that test scores did NOT go up during this time period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 3:42pm
Acclaro,
I've been called many names...some good and some bad...but have never been compared to Ann Mort.
 
Regarding property values, look at the Case Shiller index and you'll see that a decrease in property values has NOT been strictly a Middletown issue.  Some areas have had a 40% decrease in value!   It's happened around the country.  Plus, the 525 Thorn Hill was not owned by a physician who moved, it was owned by a business guy who died.  House has issues and was initially listed way too high.  Maybe a seller's issue and not necessarily a Middletown issue. 
 
Ktf...Middletown needs a 1,000 like you.  Keep the faith and the good work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 3:21pm
Commendable ktf.
 
If time permits, please lobby council and JG, LL, on putting the city ordinance back in place for road dedication; that is a tough ordinance the city foolishly abolished 'temporarily.' I'd be interested to learn how the road matter and disrepair, figures in your calculus of rebirth. There is no rebirth with roads; it takes priority over a school building.  
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 3:15pm
Am I expecting a Indian hill, Mason, or Springboro in Middletown of course not. But I would like to see is a functional local government that is focused on priorities, and is budget conscious. I would be fine with Middletown being like  Franklin, Lebanon, Miamisburg, and a the schools having Good rating. Would I like an excellent rating absolutely, but I know in a town this size it is not possible.

The Fact is we all need to start to turn this town around our selves, by turning in problem properties and neighbors into the city or police, even if it takes multiple calls to do so. Middletown has a very tough ordinances when it comes to properties, they are even tougher than Springboro. But if no one calls in about problem properties and neighbors, our property values will stay low.

In fact I even mow the lawn of the house next to me, because the owners decided to leave it and let the house go into foreclosure. I have checked with the former owners and the city and they were both okay with me taking care of it.  I do this because it helps keeps the street looking well maintained. I could let it continue to grow, and call the city and wait for them to mow it, but I figure it is just as easy for me to take care of the outside of it when I mow my lawn. And that way I know it is being taken care of. In fact the yard now looks better than when the previous owners lived there.

It is that proactive take charge attitude that we need in this city to begin to turn this city around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 2:41pm
To be frank, upon reading the posts of ktf and processor, I believe I am reading the prepared talking points of Ann Mort.
 
Lets examine Ms. Andrew's 'May' articulation what may occur with the new building, and now the coupling of the argument new schools are part of rebirth of Middletown? Rebirth....may I get what you are smoking, or lavender scent filing your respective rooms, respectfully stated?
 
Middletown built elementary schools 10 years ago, which did not:
 
1) Raise property values
 
2) Raise scores
 
3) Increase enrollment
 
Now the argument advanced is this cannot be linear in nature, the rebirth, but (I assume), serial. Well, there is absolutely no correlation with building a school upon parity, using the vernacular Neil Bareille used, 'manifestation of urban paranoia" or something similar, which causes a rebirth. Such assertion is frankly, devoid of merit and reasoned thought. Unless you are basing 'rebirth' on a suggestion Middletown gets a new building, so that is rebirth.
 
Here's my suggestion for rebirth:
 
1. Medium income per household, hits $95,000. annually in todays dollar.
 
2. School dropout is less than 2% annually, not 19%.
 
3. 98% of students go on to graduate or at least begin, undergraduate work.
 
4. Schools are Excellence in rating.
 
5. Property valuation for residents per annum, exceeds 10%. Do any of you even have a clue on a 35 year trend line on Middletown? It is negative (-), even keeping up with marginal CPI (inflation), of 2.5% per annum. Consider: Beautiful white historic completely redone, Thorn Hill, bought in 1985, $300,000 sold in AUGUST, 2013, $335,000. Now, take cpi, X 28 yrs: Break even pt would net $510,000 on simple annual appreciation, discounting NFV of capital.
 
Consider- 525 Thorn Hill, 3 acres, prominent physician, moved out, built in 2005 (or thereabouts), 3 acres, custom build, listed currently by Real Living, initial investment > $500,000. Listing today: $359,000, and just LOWERED. Interesting tax valuation is about $160,000 BTW, on a $360,000 house.
 
Consider- former Dr. Jackson Central Ave. house, bought > 10 years ago, $375,000, > $125,000. put in; sold in summer 2013: $285,000. Previous Owner- moved to West Chester- > 50 year resident.
 
And on and on. da Vinci, Curryer, et al.
 
Building a new school does nothing to create a rebirth in Middletown. Its an action to be done, when  the true elements of new generation occurs. Build it and they will come, has failed repeatedly. With one exception. Section 8.
 
I add: how are any of you on the 'rebirth' train, squaring the City of Middletown's own stated goal of getting population down to under 30,000 (that effects school size and housing demand directly), squaring the four corners with some element of property increased valuation? And in light of factual, quantitative data?
 
What brought residents and businesses to Middletown even 30 years ago, IS NOT what will bring them to the city today. Turnarounds work, but only when there is recognition of what needs to be done in amenities. Right now, everyone is chasing a dream of parity so far reaching, making Middletown West Chester, Mason, Indian Hills, it can be described as the Greek figure in myth pushing the rock up hill his entire life.
 
Face facts: if you want to pass the levy state the obvious: it buys the city time.      
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 10:34am
ktf..I'm glad that you're doing the research necessary to make an informed decision and are considering all points of view.  I wish more people did the work before forming an opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perplexed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 10:32am
Comments by ktff1179, Acclaro, Viet Vet, etc., underscore the fact that some disturbing trends are occurring in some neighborhoods east of Brieil Blvd. after all. Why is this?
 
First of all, consider declining residential property values.  Second, a look at demographic data shows that median household income citywide and east of Brieil Blvd. is trending downward.  Third, what is happening to the percentage of home ownership?  Fourth, there's the issue of declining population.
 
Once again, what have senior city staff done to address the above four issues?  How have they fared in utilizing federal tax dollars in promoting safe and physically sound neighborhoods?  What have (and are) their actions doing to remedy the lack of stability in neighborhoods west of Brieil Blvd.  Think about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 10:11am
Actually my mind is still not made up yet, and I still may vote for the school. As for can I afford the additional taxes? Yes, before I bought my house I setup direct deposit into separate account just for the max mortgage payment of $700 per month, right now I am paying around $676 per month. I would rather the extra money go to paying down the principal instead of taxes, but if taxes go up I have some wiggle room but that would be it. If any other levies were to pass down the road, I would have to re-adjust my direct deposit, which would mean less money for other bills. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2013 at 9:48am
ktf1179,
You make some great points and I agree with nearly all of them except your conclusion to not vote for the levy.  I agree that all the things you mentioned, crime, section 8, poverty, infrastructure, etc must be changed/improved for Middletown to turn the corner and re-become the community it was and the community we all desire.  However, I believe that you can't do it linearly.  It needs to be attacked all at once.  If you try and solve one problem at a time, we all will be dead and gone before we see any major improvements.  I haven't heard anyone claim that the new/re-habbed buildings will solve the academic issues with our schools.  Nor have I heard anyone argue that it will solve the crime and poverty problems.  What it is though is ONE necessary component of the rebirth of Middletown.  It needs to be done.  I agree with your parents.  It will help and make a positive difference.  Ms. Andrew is correct that many people are relatively satisfied with our elementary schools, but move their children, or their whole families before they allow their kids to go to Vail.    As Acclaro stated, we need to improve the demand for Middletown.  Having parents concerned about Vail does exactly the opposite.  We need to remove this as an issue.
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