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Agenda 2008- Journal Article-Dec 28

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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Agenda 2008- Journal Article-Dec 28
    Posted: Jan 17 2009 at 12:53pm
I'll put our Boys' Band up against any other city's this side of Chicago!!!
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2009 at 8:00am
So Mom exactly what does the Local Chamber do for the small business owner?  Do they have a stance on the excessive Poverty in Middletown?  Do they have a stance on the excessive Section 8 in Middletown?  Have they contacted their members about these issues for comments, ideas, concerns?  Do they have a stance on the Signage issue at this time?  Have they formed a committee of local businesses owners to even look at these issues and discuss them with the City?  The City doesn't appear to even want to acknowledge that these matters even exist.   Do they feel that these issues are even important or is it a "don't ask and don't talk about it matter"?  I was a member of the chamber for a few years but I didn't see much value in it for the small guy so I dropped it.
 
To me these are prime issues that need to be discussed by the Chamber in Middletown among the Business community, but I feel like the sole voice of concern about these issues in Middletown, as no one else really even cares or dares to talk about them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadisonMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 17 2009 at 12:17am
My business pretty much "dropped off the face of Middletown" in December.
We have had a busy week, but not with any local businesses. Our out of town clients who trust us and keep coming back. We are looking up, but not locally. Did City Council do any of this for us? Chamber? NO.
We did it ourselves with our reputation and close contact with those "good" clientele. Our service speaks for itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 7:16pm
Jonathan how much more constructive do you want us to be, than we need to tackle the issues that are killing this City.  Education, Poverty, Section 8, Businesses leaving/closing, infrastructure, etc.
 
Naive is not having an ongoing discussion about these issues with your Community and at least trying to resolve some of them and just telling the community, we have "great parks" and "Middletown has a Bright Future".  Now the citizenry would probably be more incline to go alone with the "Bright Future" if we saw some progress being made on the big ticket issues.  Not Business signage issues being enforced at the worse possible time and Red Light Cameras playing Musical intersections.
 
If I followed the City's response to everything.  I would look at my business and smileBig%20smile and think Pacman you have a "bright future" in Middletown.  But don't worry about your business being down 25+%....and don't do anything about it, just keep smiling Big%20smile and  telling yourself you have a "bright future" in Middletown.  Hey Spider maybe you should try that too.Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Middletown News Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 4:44pm
The best things in life are right here. Don't be so naive to say anyplace is any better than right here in Middletown.
 
I'd rather have the company I work for in Middletown than any suburb in Detroit. (The whole state of Michigan for that matter, lol)
 
But seriously, everyone is struggling. The big cities are going bankrupt as is California.
 
We are no different.
 
Lets be constructive in our criticisms and helpful with a few solutions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 4:22pm
We are ideally positioned...
Bread and circuses...
A fresh coat of paint...
Don't be so negative...
Don't dwell on the bad things...
Just give us a little time and things will get better...
 
THOSE are all of the same things that they were saying THIRTY YEARS AGO, when I left, and TEN YEARS AGO when I moved back, and last summer, and last week, and TODAY!!!
 
WHAT "good ideas"???  It's the same old program that we've been hearing about for years, that "just needs a little time"!
 
"Parachutes do NOT work when you're trying to jump UP!!!"
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 4:19pm
I think you missed my point.  I have no problem with festivals at all the more the better.  But everytime the issues in Middletown surface that need to be solved, Poverty, Education, taxes, Section 8, Downtown, Businesses leaving town or closing, we get the same blank stare and response.
 
We have great parks, Middfest, Balloon festival, Broad St Bash.  These Festivals don't solve the issues.
 
I wasn't here in the past like you, hence I don't dwell on the Middletown of the past, I have only been here for 5 years, but I have seen it decline just in that short amount of time.
 
The point is to take the issues which are hurting this City the Most and move them to the front burner and lets move ahead with at least making an attempt to tackle them, instead of constantly leaving them on the back burner.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 3:42pm
Money coming into the city from events is always a good thing. No problem with that. No problem with any of the events that you listed in your previous post. I hope they create more social/money-making opportunities for you and the city. You said, "The path forward comes from the good ideas that people from all walks of the community have"- That's true-I agree- now- do you want to offer any suggestions on how the "people from all walks of the community" are suppose to be heard by leadership after they do present their ideas? THAT'S THE PROBLEM- WE ARE IGNORED by a group of people who want to run the city THEIR WAY, not the PEOPLE'S WAY! How are we to " move forward" (your words) if we suggest ideas that are ignored by the leaders? Solution- get rid of the leaders that are preventing the city from "moving forward"- replace with more cooperative people who will listen to/act on the ideas of the people and address the public's concerns. Ms. Gilleland may have been trained to "manage tough situations like this", but she is still at the mercy of and is being held accountable to cooperate with the group that can spare her or sacrifice her to the lions. She can only resist the Council/influential people up to a certain point- then she has to back off. IE- she can't divulge what she may be really thinking. Solution to allow Ms. Gilleland freedom to become much more effective- get rid of the leaders that are preventing her from effectively managing the city.( hey- that's the same solution as listed above- imagine that!)Looks like it's a wash- get rid of the current leaders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drumford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 3:17pm
.....and its those events that get people coming into our city limits, buying from local vendors who pay taxes into the city coffers.  Middfest alone breaths over a million dollars into local businesses.  This years Ohio Challenge was a HUGE success.  There are many cities across this country in much worse shape that don't even have those types of events let alone cities in other countries.  I don't advocate Rose colored glasses to the same extent that I don't advocate bleak colored glasses.  The way I look at it is there is still plenty of opportunity to make things better, this doesn't have to be a permanent situation for Middletown and the path forward comes from the 'good ideas' that people from all walks of the community have.  Three years ago when we bought our building city council was in serious disarray and deserving of the criticism.  However today I do see progress being made and I do believe we have a better group in council making better decisions and that is JMHO.  Our new city manager has actually been trained to manage tough situations like this unlike her predesessor.  Ms Gilleland was named in The Dayton Business Journal's 40 Under 40 a few years which is an impressive recognition.  I think if given time you will see some progress but we need to look forward and stop dredging up the mistakes of the past.
The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 2:22pm
Mr, Drumford, just how far can a community get on:
 
DART
Middfest
Balloon Challenge
Main Street Art and Music Fest
Broad Street Bash
We have Great Parks
MUM
Middletown has a Bright Future
TV Middletown with its same Old Rose Colored Glasses Shows where nothing is discussed about the issues of Middletown that need to be addressed and bringing in some people to discuss these issues and who may have some answers, as we sure aren't getting any locally.
 
For 5 years all I have heard is Parks, Middfest, Balloons, MUM, etc. and things have progressively gotten worse and yet we have Great Parks.
 
There has to be more substance to Middletown then a Balloon Fest, Great Parks and handing out Rose Colored Glasses as people enter the City Limits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 2:00pm
Thank you for your response. Yes, it is true. I have seen the prosperous years in town.We both know what we have now. This is one reason for the negative feelings I have for the way the city is being run now. You've been here for three years. You didn't experience the impact Armco had on the community nor the introduction of Miami U -Middletown and the opportunities it provided for myself and others just graduating from Midd. High in 1966. The daily activity of people shopping, talking, fraternizing, working at the various companies that offered decent employment. A great deal more activity than now. The city seemed "alive" back then, not like now where the city seems like it has lost it's personality, while people seem to want to keep to themselves and not communicate/engage each other with ideas. Nobody seems to care anymore. Has the manner in which the city been managed/direction of the city over all these years done that to all of us? Probably. Another frustration has been the fact that the leaders have ignored the people who still want to try to make it better. When one approaches those in charge with ideas/suggestions as to how they want their city to be and one continually has their hands slapped for trying, one tends to retreat to a save place and lob long distance barbs at the perceived enemy with the intention of doing as much damage as possible. Some of us get that negativity that you mention, honestly. Attend Midfest-attend the Broad St Bash-attend the Ohio Balloon event-attend the Art and Music festival-( did go to the Blues and Bikes Fest because I like Blues music) No. I did not. These are all worthwhile activities and are valuable to the city in a SOCIAL way, but I see no correlation between these events and getting to the heart of the problems for Midd.- the illogical decison-making and poor leadership and wrong direction this town has.If necessary, the city could survive without these events, but the city will surely die if we don't address the decision-making, poor leadership and wrong direction problems we currently have. Events are fine to strenthen the community socially, but to eliminate the spread of the negative cancer we must remove the "cancerous growths" that cause the negativity. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drumford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 1:06pm
No, not a city employee or council member, I am a small business owner in the heart of the downtown district.  I don't have a large network of contacts but the ones I do have could be obtained by anyone interested in having them.  I have seen in my short three years here many attempts to improve the area, community and ecconomic condition and many of these initiatives aren't well publicized but there are many local people with 'good ideas' about how to improve the community.  Did you go to the DART meeting last night to discuss the improvement of the downtown?  Did you come down for a Broad Street Bash last summer.  Did you attend Middfest?  How about the Ohio Challenge balloon event?  Did you attend the Main Street Art and Music festival last year?  There are many good things to focus on and many more in the development.  Since you have been here for 60 years you probably know the demise of Middletown from its heyday actually happened about thirty years ago yet Middletown is still here, still trying new things, still in the game.  I know the Forbes folks think the city is dying fast but I can show you many many things those folks have said that did not come true or were so far off a person with a crystal ball could have done better.  They are just regurgitating statistics without analyzing them.  I didn't hear them mention the recession last spring as they predicted the fianancil events we would see this year.  I don't recall them mentioning the three trillion the stock market would lose in a day so I don't put much stock in thier articles either.  I am not attacking you personally Viet but there is a pervasive amount of negativity in the community that doesn't help.  A positive attitude and some good ideas are going to go a long way to helping Middletown grow and prosper in the future.  The city is perfectly position in the Daytonatti corridor and given time there will be an impressive image change to the east end which ulitmately will help the entire community.  We could start with changing the image of Middletonians as being negative.
The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arwendt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2008 at 1:36pm

This thread is getting trashy.

“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 30 2008 at 10:19pm
I heard section 8 was available and you don't have to worry where you throw your trash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 30 2008 at 11:17am

Good point.

But what if I had planned to retire and get section 8 housing?

OK. Working sounds fine after all.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 10:38pm
Newsflash 308, we all will have to work till we drop just to be able to pay property taxes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

..chosen not to retire due mainly to boredom (daytime television programming)
 
.308 would much prefer to work till the day he dies rather than to stay home and watch Daytime TV.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 3:13pm
drumford- VietVet would love to run for a Council seat. He would love to change the town he was born and raised 60 years ago. VietVet has a full time job and has chosen not to retire due mainly to boredom (daytime television programming) and once you stop working and start sitting around, somehow it contributes to an early departure from this life, if you know what I mean. VietVet is not a business owner like some on Council and works at the mercy of a private employer. He doesn't have the liberty to take off when he pleases to attend Council functions. He doesn't have the network and contacts like these business owners have and he doesn't have deep pockets. "Lobbing into blogs"- We all know that when placed in a public scenario, the lobs will happen. It will be emphasized if you are doing a poor job while in that public office. It comes with the territory, you know that. Are you a "defender of the faith" for the city? Are you a city employee or perhaps a Council member yourself? Have you experienced the pinnacle of this town's success and the low's since the 70's. Some of us have and we don't like the current state of affairs. You are helping to re-enforce the purpose of this blog. You are offering bulletin board comments that will elicit a response.By "good ideas, not negative banter attacking those who are actually trying"- inform us- who are the people who are trying the come up with good ideas? It ain't Council. It ain't the School Board or Superintendent. It ain't the city building leaders.It ain't the Section 8 people. It ain't the Public Works department concerning the streets. It ain't the influential people of this town. Who are the ones that are "actually trying". Please clarify. This town is in the shape it is in due to "good ideas" Oh, and Viet wouldn't mind having lobs thrown at him. He actually thrives on it and would answer any and all lobs. Viet has been through a lot worse than verbal assaults and can handle it.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drumford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 2:04pm
Its easy to throw stones anonymously from the sidelines at the easiest targets, it takes quite a bit more to get involved and actually make a real statement!  Viet seems fairly articulate and informed, maybe he should run for city council and make a real improvement in Middletown's future.  But that of course would be a bit harder than lobbing into blogs and would most likely result in some other anonymous negative author to unsympathetically lob attacks at him, the real him whoever Viet is.  I have no doubt Middletown will thrive albeit over time and in a different manner than  it has in the past so what we really need are good ideas, not negative banter attacking those who are actually trying.
The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 10:25am
Sorry, Spider, but TVMiddletown is NOT "our" station!!!  It is the "establishment's" station.
 
Besides, they officially have an "ALL GOOD NEWS" policy regarding our fair city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 9:55am
Vet--I believe that many more people watch the TVM meeting broadcasts than read the message boards. Citizen comments can again become an important part of the meeting process and citizen involvement if handled properly and in a constructive manner.
 
I see your "problem" list as an "opportunity" list.
We can accomplish all of the issues if approached consistently,eloquently and by additional new voices/faces. TVM will eventually agree to portray "other" viewpoints and opinions.
 
I agree that it will take time to recover, and the beginning will be difficult.
However we have no real other options.
 
Hopefully a new face(s) in Economic Development will take us far beyond the wasted time given to departed Bill Murphy(who honestly accomplished very little other than to promote himself and his career). How this guy was recognized as an important person for results and change might b the biggest mystery of the year.
 
Five Ms.G another year to make changes.
Work towards four new Council ward reps who will break the chain of command and non-accomplishment.
Involve EVERYONE in some facet of improving our city.
Support the few local businesses that we have left.
 
Don't sit waiting for some bailout package.
There ain't no $$ out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 9:24am
Spider- taking the complaints recorded on these blogs to the Council, placing them on TVM, or writing Letters To The Editor, will not change the tide for the better.Council won't listen to you. TVM will want to dilute what you say and the Journal will censor your message to lessen it's effect. Getting people off their butts, voting for alternative candidates and changing the thinking, which, hopefully, will change the direction, will, perhaps, produce positive results. 1st problem- Finding alternative choices as candidates. 2nd problem- getting people to the polls to vote the habitual running club candidates out. 3rd problem- finding a solution to the multitude of problems created by past and present Councils/leaders. 4th problem- it will take years, even with the sharpest minds, to recover revenue, image, prosperity, property values, a solid job base for opportunity for the people and a general feeling that this town is ,once again, alive.Finally, "serving on local boards can be frustrating and mention CONSTANTLY". Sorry to CONSTANTLY mention this. It's all I have as experience on the subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 8:57am
MMom- Towne Mall situation- agree, they are to blame. Just wonder what Council/city leaders were doing as they watched it slowly decline to a ghost mall. We know that they met with the owners but the situation was never finalized. Maximum effort should have been given to retain these stores and jobs, IF at all possible. A MAN for City Manager? Doesn't matter. Olson, the former MALE City Manager didn't do a great job either. The City Manager in this town, man or woman, will have a tough time getting their message through as long as we keep electing the type of people to Council that we have elected for the last 30 years. Women on Council?- Doesn't matter there either. Leslie Ford doesn't contribute any more than Armbruster or Mulligan.Scott-Jones would like to contribute more but you can see the frustration on her face as she is outnumbered. Schiavone, Marconi, Becker are the Council mouthpieces. They tend to dominate the talks. Get money for the "foundation"- should have happened years ago in the 70's to offset Armco downsizing. Since it didn't happen, the city must scrap and claw for any revenue like the government handout predicted from this new administration. The city, like the schools, have a taxing disease that they want to give to the citizens. Kind of a "bleed 'em dry" approach. City needs to start by making itself attractive to businessess which will cost money it doesn't have. City needs the revenue from these new companies to make it more attractive. City can't catch revenue, businessess/jobs or a cold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 7:11am

Thanks Vet---stole that line from Spiro Agnew, and wondered if anyone would remember.

I was frustrated yesterday, just like the rest of u.
 
U know Ms.G has to put a good face on and say the right positive things.
Do u really think that she doesn't see problems and isn't frustrated by many things going on? Remember--this was her first year here, and she is employed by Council. I like the lady, trust the lady, and will do what I can to help her make things better in any way that I can.
 
No Vet--serving on local boards can be very frustrating for the exact reasons you experienced and mention constantly. If u  stick with it and slowly build alliances within, you can occasionally make progress. I have seen it happen.
 
Right people-wrong people--4 now they are the ONLY people. Council didn't have a great year, while seeming mired in endless discussion just to do things as always. Well--that won't work any more. Either more $$ must come in or ugly cuts must happen. Fortunately we have stayed in better financial shape than indicated or many believe. That won't continue.
 
MY frustration comes from daily reading of the same complaints and issues now discussed similarly on two message boards, and discussed by the same people. And none of the posters ever take these issues to the public forums of Council or the School Board. We have the wonderful venue of TVM, so all concerned viewers will hear your concerns(for 3 minutes). We must pound it in every meeting, one speaker after another, hopefully in a united and positive tone.  Maybe a constructive interview on TVM or a counter-point other opinion show? It is OUR station remember.
 
Use the constant presentation 2 first attract public attention, then 2 create public consensus. Maybe others will join in with their own ideas and comments. Maybe new electable candidates will emerge, and develop familiarity as the ward elections near.
 
I dunno--u know from time that I share your concerns and frustrations about the directions taken by our city govt. Just seems like we have hit the wall on the message boards, and new tactics must evolve if we r ever going to change anything.
 
Of course, I could be totally off-base.
Tell me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2008 at 12:10am
Yes mom some of us have seen the budget and Middletown will never be able to tax itself out of the current mess it has made for itself and it's status quo agenda.   But hey while Dayton chases the Hookers, Middletown chases it own tail in a circle to nowhere.Shocked
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