Health Board Tax levy
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Income and Property Tax
Forum Description: Discuss Tax issues, current, past and upcoming.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3800
Printed Date: May 17 2024 at 7:28am
Topic: Health Board Tax levy
Posted By: VietVet
Subject: Health Board Tax levy
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 6:58am
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Here it comes taxpayers. Another levy.
MIDDLETOWN — The city health department is considering going to voters with a levy to help fund services. "Phillips admitted the time may be less than opportune given the budgetary crunch the city is in and the likelihood any health levy would be in direct competition with the expiring quarter-percent public safety levy. However, she said she felt a levy may be necessary given the department’s ever-growing responsibilities for protecting and educating residents" "A range of services are offered by the health department, including immunization, disease surveillance and education, food service licensing, and licensing for mobile home parks, tattoo facilities, swimming pools and septic systems" "the department is budgeted to spend about $732,000 in 2011" Does this service really cost $732 thou to do? Exactly what is "disease surveillance and education"? Can understand immunizations, food service/mobile home park licensing, septic tank/swimming pool inspections ....ok, but does it cost this much to have an inspector go look at a mobile home,tatoo parlor or look at a swimming pool installation? How many mobile homes, tatoo parlors, homes with septic tank installations or swimming pools are being installed in Middletown during the year to create this kind of expense? Can Phillips justify this expenditure with real reasons for the cost, or is this just another inflated government agency that blows money and is over-financed in operation? |
Replies:
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 7:50am
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Not only will I not vote for this but shouldn't we be looking at folding that department into the county's health department? Mrs. Phillips seems a bit tone deaf about the financial state of this city's residents. And I'm sure council is not too happy to have anything getting in the way of their goal to pass another safety levy, which we all know will NOT be specifically earmarked for police/fire. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 9:36am
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As a former member of the Board of Health, I know what services are provided, and at premium value to the community. You simply can't make Middietown the section 8 capital of the midwest, then toss these people out on their own as far as health care. IF the Butler County situation was better, consolidation might make sense, however the county situation was somewhat disfunctional and far below our local level of service.
IMO the Health Dept. is in the excellent hands of Ms.Phillips(a lifer here who cares) and a very good and lean staff. Subsidized for $165,000 annually compared to the sums thrown around and wasted is an incredible value.
Tax levy--I dunno.
We simply can't count on Council/Admin to place and use $$ as advertised and intended.
Their past money-shuffling alone should kill any possibility of passage.
Once again, IMO the Health Dept. is one of the most functional and important features of Admin.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 10:10am
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Spider, I'll take you at your word on being a good value. Just curious. If the department is subsidized by the city at $165,000 and the total budget to operate is $732,000, the difference is $567,000. What would happen for that $567,000 to be spent. I'd like to see Ms. Phillips break down her spending for her department by category to justify the expenditures and the need for her to ask for additional money.
Same goes for this "safety levy" (aka-salary money) the city is asking for again. Justify it boys and girls in city government. Lay it out line by line for us voters why you need the money and where it will be spent if approved (without lying, of course) If you can't do that, give it up. Heck, that applies to every department in the city building for that matter.  Gotta be some areas of any department budget (INCLUDING PAYROLL/POSITIONS) that can be cut and made more streamline, especially when it involves the government at any level. 10/4?
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 10:32am
| Vet - I think I can help you out on how the $567k is spent because Ms. Phillips explained it to some citizens in reference to the septic system. I'll try to get it right; the state requires the health dept. by law to account for time and any fees or assessments collected and by law any money collected must be spent by the health dept. So it I understand; for the $165k for the personnel, the city gets $567k worth of services. Anyone who would like to correct or explain this better than I please help me, but that is what I gathered from Ms. Phillips' explantion. I'd much rather let Ms Phillips explain the "more money" part because I'm sure she knows the whys and wherefores better than I. I agree with Spider's assessment of Ms Phillips as well and could only hope that every other dept in the city is run as well. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 11:22am
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I completely agree with Bill---consolidate and fold in, the Middletown system with Butler Cty Health. With all due respect sj, I'm not certain who you are speaking with in Butler Cty, but they hold about 4 clinics each week, vaccine hundreds of thousands, have an epidemiliogist, a Director of Nursing with an MSN who is married to the chair of the statistics Department at Miami University, Oxford, and have fantastic nurses, one I know would have been offered the Director's position if she would have wanted it in Middletown.
There is transit to and from Butler Cty (Hamilton daily). We talk about economies of scale and regionalism, and then use something associated with Section 8 as a basis of a tax levy---come on, that won't fly. Fold this into Butler Cty Health, attempt regionalism and partnerships Middletown as every city council says each week, instead of doing the exact opposite.
TonyB, this was probably planned, throwing in a medical service with the "public safety" levy, and will undoubtedly have ballot language which a vote for one would mean a yes for another. I can tell you in Middletown, buyers are not willing to move in with the threat of these non stop levies, the streets, the schools, and as property values are going down, here's another levey, and another, and another.
sj, you need to visit and get the facts straight on Butler Cty Health. They have sanitoriums, top flight RN's, plumbers who evaluate health standards, and run clinics, statistical analysis on Hepatitis, intefcat with the CDC on bioterrorism, and provide countless vaccines for those traveling oversees. They run a tight ship, and most of their RN's worked at major medical centers. Not certain where you are getting your orange to apple comparison, but Middletown should be folded into the group. The Director of Nursing at Middletown works part-time, 32 hrs a week. I guess all those Section 8 cases allow for a day off weekly.
Consolidation and regionalism is the answer, not continued independence. The city cannot sustain being a 'stand alone' as it loses population and doesn't want to transition into the fact it is a city losing population, not gaining it.
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Posted By: Middletown29
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 12:23pm
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There is a large number of counties across the Country that are significantly bigger and more complex then Butler County that have a countywide public health operation.
Other then "we want our own", there is absolutely NO reason to have a separate city health department. A TAX LEVY? What a joke!!! Gilleland should be fired if this issue goes any further. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 12:33pm
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I certainly can't see where the current "Public Safety levy" money has all been spent as an additive for public safety. Including the Health Department for this go-around appears to be nothing more than a marketing ploy. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 12:36pm
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Agreed M29 on the proper solution for funding. Or, simply cut back in what the city of Middletown does, and have Butler Cty pick up where they do the same type of work. I know the clinics that are run in Hamilton and identical to Middletown, and the Cty Health department goes all over to do clinics inclding the fire department at Oxford, every school district, and many of their employees haven't had raises for years (the secretary opening at Middletown PAYS BETTER than what the Director at Butler Cty makes with a MSN). How's that for efficiency and bloating by Middletown.
I'm sure the folks in Middletown are caring and very capable. But, no levy needed. Keep budget the same, and for what cannot be done, let Butler Cty do more, or consolidate. Lets see consolidation would mean two heads in Middletown elminated, and a few positions combined, or carry on, no increase, and let Butler Cty do more and have residents use buses, other means, to get to the Butler Cty clinic and office.
The levy should not pass, combine. When the world is consolidating, Middletown continues to want to have its own:
1) Water Department
2) Court system
3) Golf couse
4) Airport
5) Health system
6) etc, etc.
Now if only the school systems would begin to consolidate, a few $Bb in savings here, there, my we just saved $100 Bb. THINK before ACTING on another levy. Building Rome when its burning is never a winning strategy.
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Posted By: Nick_Kidd
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 1:06pm
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In my opinion the health department is like to many others in our city. It is more interested in trespassing on private property in order to send a $40 bill to the citizens, than it is getting something done about the mosquito infested cesspool they call the hydraulic canal. As always, taking money from citizens is much more important than facing the real problems of the city. Since the health department has 2 sanitarians on staff, why are citizens being billed for them to do their jobs? If they actually do something do we have to pay them more? Didn’t the city try this scam with our fire department a few years ago? Didn’t the court decide that charging for something paid for with tax money is illegal? Once again our leaders never let a little thing like legality, ethics, honesty or integrity stand in the way of stealing money from the citizens. Why is the city building a new health center when the state is going to cut funding for health departments? The city can’t afford to pay for the health center on their own. ------------- Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem. |
Posted By: Government Big Broth
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 1:55pm
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Nick,
Thanks for your ongoing commentary on numerous topics!!
 Keep up the good work; remain vigilant!!
May you and a small handful of concerned citizens expose One Donham Plaza bureaucrats!
 May GOD help the average citizens of our once proud community!
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 3:09pm
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acclaro - i have no idea about planning at the city building; based on what I've read here, most people don't believe the city capable of planning that far ahead or in that detail!!! lol Your ideas about consolidation and regionalization sound fine, my consern becomes when do things become too big to be effective. That is always a difficult proposition; I've thought for a long time that the structure of local governments and the overlapping jurisdictions was inefficient. Perhaps a reorgainzation of local government structure is in order. The transit thing caught my eye because it is so limited. I'm not familiar with the when or how many times per day there is transport to Hamilton but I certainly would not want to depend on it. Since public transportation seems to be way down the list on needs in the area, that consolidation you advocate doesn't seem possible. With gasoline approaching $5/ gal. , it would be nice to have the option to travel without owning a car. IMO, it's going to take a little more than combining depts to solve some of the major issues in Middletown, Butler County and the rest of SW Ohio. I don't see anyone pushing solutions, do you?
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 4:49pm
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I wish it all to be so simple as to just pass the responsibity on to Butler County. If our Health Dept. was to be taken over by the county, we would still be responsible to pay for the services.
This is absolutely not a freebie. When we studied this possibilty, we were somewhat surprised by the possibility that the county would charge MORE to provide a lesser quality and variety of service. There was quite a bit of confusion within the county as to how they perform their services, and we found their service level to be below what is currently provided in-house here. WE STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS. Do you REALLY think that the Butler County group is going to do it better and more cost effectively? Based on my limited experience, I really don't see that being the case.
Knowing Ms.Phillips for 30+ years, the sanitarians(with whom I interact on a business level also), and the dept.personel, I am very confident that we are now in excellent hands and getting significantly more for our expense.
As for the septic tank issue--you might be shooting the messenger here, as this is a mandate from higher up. $40 is a ball park figure to be later modified to become cost neutral. The fee is mandated to be based on the actual cost to do the inspections. Same as business inspections, swimming pools and other dept.visits. No profit--just re-coup of the expense.
Also Butler County Health really does not want to add Middletown to it responsibilities. This is not like adding in some small middle-class township. With our size and demographics, this project would be HUGE in scope, requiring significant expense, including travel costs for the care recipients. Butler Co.honestly didn't want us at the time. We kept Section 8 in house locally(why?), so with that decision also comes the responsibilty of health issues of the Section 8 families. Not my decision or yours--but how it has played out. Believe me--Council/Admin would LOVE to keep their Section 8 cash flowing in to pay for their salaries/bennies and ship the health issues part elsewhere.
Mr.Kidd/Mr.Self whomever--don't confuse Housing, Nuisance and ect. with the Health Dept. During my time, none of you ever were mentioned(sorry!). None of you were ever an issue.
As to the hydraulic canal--I raised that issue repeatedly, and we were not permitted to address that situation other than to set mosquito traps and test the water. You have to climb the ladder much higher to get the answer "why?"
I believe that "consolidation" is still a remote possibility, with Ms.Phillips assuming a leadership position, and most local dept.employees to be assimilated into the expanded dept.(and it WILL have to be significanly expanded if Middletown is added to the mix).
I understand the sentiment here, however I honestly don't think that we would save any $$ or recieve comparable services. I would expect us to pay much more for much less.
At this time I cannot support any additional local tax levys because I don't trust the manner in which local Admin spends and tracks the accrued funds.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 5:13pm
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sj, I am sorry to disagree, but the statements are inaccurate. Let us begin by agreeing as the fed pays fr a large portion of salary, and state, whether it is Middletown or the Cty, the benefit from a garnt would stay in place would it not? Of course it would. Butler Cty is very aggressive and successful with their grants and submissions. That issue and point, respectly, is "Next."
Lesser quality and more experience? I think Pat Burg who has retired from the Butler Cty Health Department leadership role had over 30 years in, and is on her second term with 35 years in that position and area. She has an execptional Board composed of a few docs who participate internationally, in Doctors Without Borders, school nusres, former business executives, Public Health executives, and the staff is exceptional. I can tell you the interim Director at Butler Cty Health could have taken the Director role, but chose not to pursue it in Middletown.
There is absolutely no 'step down' in quality, skills, nor more importantly, experience. On average, the Butler Cty Health Department nurses average at least 20-30 years as Registered Nurses, and their new Director with an MSN, was a UNC Chapel Hill grad, and wired in every facet of health care in the US, including the CDC, etc. They deal almost weekly with serious outbreaks and run a flawless clinic, and interface with the nation's top hospital's including John Hopkins, George Washington, and Mayo Clinic. Next.
They also have enormous experience in multi-cultutral demographics and are capable of speaking multiple languages and cultue experiences from Russian, French, mideast, to Latin America.
Keep Middletown the way it is, no levy passed, and what they can't handle, Butler Cty Health can, and do it highly efficiently and cost effectively, with a staff that has decades of experience. Consolidation always produces savings. It would in this case, but the premise is---there is no need for a levy. Consolidate or let Butler cty pick up hat Middletown can't handle, with no levy.
I doubt Pat would concur with your position regarding why Middletown has not been folded previously. On the contrary, they probably all wish they had Middletown's benefit plan and pay scale!
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 6:20pm
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I have nothing negative to say about Ms.Burg, and am not going to get into a drawn-out discussion where we obviously disagree.
In my business career, I have dealt with every level of bureaucratic inspection available, and have many business associates who deal with the same in other areas. I have worked closely at times with the last 3 local health commissioners and their staffs. The last thing that I want is to alienate a dept. that will "regulate" my businesses eventually.
So--I ask everyone here--are you happy with the long-term level of attention and services provided Middletown by the Butler County Commissioners and county services recieved?
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 7:54pm
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Spider....
"So--I ask everyone here--are you happy with the long-term level of attention and services provided Middletown by the Butler County Commissioners and county services recieved?" Lord no! The county government, judging by the attention Middletown receives from Hamilton, doesn't even know Middletown exists. That inattention goes from the highest in Boehner through Columbus with Cates and company to the locals with Furmon, Carpenter, former commissioner Jolivette and Dixon. None are worth a sh-- providing support for northern Butler County. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 7:56pm
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It's unfortunate that several of the depts. in this city end up being folded into the "mess". Just the thought of a levy makes my head spin. But as much as I hear about going "regional" or letting the county handle some of our services I question the abililty to provide the attention we are use to by having these same services local. Is our current system working? Could be improved without a doubt I'm sure. As always when I have a question I call to find out the answers. I find Ms. Phillips to be very easy to talk to and interested to hear suggestions. I have to deal with the county and state like many of us with my business and I am not overly impressed with the service or the personal touch. Do I want to invite these people out to dinner, No but the paper trail and names and dates of people I've talked to is crazy. I would like to hear the details, both for a levy and how having this handled by the county. It's easy to talk, implementing it and getting the same service is what I'm interested in. |
Posted By: Government Big Broth
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 8:08pm
| GOD bless all of us Middletonians!! |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 8:10pm
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It's as simple as this:
They proved with the last "safety levy" that we could NOT trust them to faithfully steward the funds, we dare not trust them with a new one.
Bite me once, shame on you ... bite me twice, shame on me!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 8:15pm
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There is no disagreement on what you are stating sj that Middletown health works hard and provides honorable and caring service. It is also a disserive to compare Butler County Health Department remotely to the Butler County commissioners and the political machine in Hamilton and the county.
Firstly, Butler County Health Department is not affiliated with the city directly, nor the county. It has the lowest paid employees, reprot to their own Board, NOT Butler County Commissioners. The Board is comprised of medical professionals, and business executives, school nurses, and physicians. To weave this group into the county commission is simply wrong and not factual. They have a different pay scale, and really have little interaction with the county, other than payroll processing. Their benefits as well, are NOT a fraction as good as either the City of Hamilton Health, nor the city of Middletown Health. As stated, you speak of efficency and cost. Ms. G, is advertising a paid $46,000 secretary position for Middletown, the Director of Butler County Health with a MSN makes $4,000. below a secretary in Middletown. Hardly the definition of 'bloated'.
The linkage to Butler Cty Health and the city commission is inaccurate spider, said with respect. The city council in Middletown and I can name names, is far more controlled and tied to the Republican Party in Butler than anyone down within the Health Department. Consolidation makes great economic sense, and a levy is just futile and a waste of funds when there are no funds to waste (taxpayers, not beaurocrats and the establishment).
Just want to keep the debate open, and level. To summarize, Butler Cty Health has its own Board, DOES NOT report to city commission, nor receive pay and benefits equivalent to either Hamilton, Middletown, or the county itself. The professionals that have BS degrees and trained in disease control and inspection make more in both Hamilton and Middletown than Butler Cty Health. A RN averages $35,000 annually, $10,000. below a secretary in Middletown and .5% of the clerks for council and the court.
Consolidation equates to economies of scale and scope, the levy means just adding overhead, wasteful spending, and duplication in work that could be done centralized.
Who was in the ambulance and Christmas piece with the fire fighters teeing up the levy? It was not anyone at Butler Cty Health, it was the city of Middletown Health Department, leveraging public health service with public safety. A strategy to pass the .25% and more when it needs to be rolled back. Adopt Alabama---roll (back) tide. As for section 8 and its impact, there is absolutely no correlation with that population and Middletown's focus on health in comparison to Butler Cty Health. None. The functions are prevention and educating the public. Now we are talking about a need to educate the public on sewers? And now costs. The city then should be talking and holding clinics on West Nile virus spread and the impact of stagnant water, but as Mr. Allen says: "let them eat cake."
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Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 9:04pm
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excellent points acclaro. I don't doubt SJ's experience with the city health dept and assume it is well run based on many comments now and in the past. If centralizing at county level is not in fact more efficient it certainly should be and I wonder why not.
From the looks of the silly xmas video the Health Dept still has an uphill climb on improving the health of many city employees. Talk about a Bloated Past, Bloated Future ™.....
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 13 2011 at 9:15pm
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Vet, ground swat and others. Being repetitive as I addressed your belief upon what spiderjohn indicated, there is an analogy to be drawn from the manner Butler Cty is run and the Butler Cty Health Department. Lets try another comparison: ARE YOU HAPPY IN THE MANNER THE CITY IS RUN, LIKE AN AIRLINE, GOUGING IN EVERY POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY, WHAT BAGGAGE COSTS ARE TO UNITED, IS WHAT WATER IS TO THE CITY, WHAT A TICKET CHANGE IS TO AMERICAN TO WHAT HAVING THE ROADS REPAIRED AT YOUR COST IS TO THE CITY?
I THINK NOT. The Butler County Department Health Department has the lowest paid public employees in Butler county, including the city of Middletown and Hamilton. It has no affiliation nor is there any degree of control, bu the three commissioners. Rather, it is run by a Board of Directors, comprised of medical personnel, many renown nationwide. They yse many part-time employees and run very lean. Their services are excellent, including administering shots for oversees travel which I have gooten on several occasions, very inexpensively.
They HAVE NO reporting structure whatsoever to city commissioners, they report to a Board of Directors comprised of top notch medical personnel. The recent Director of Nursing who ran the outreach program at McCullough Hyde Hospital was hired by the consent of the vote of the Board of Directors, just like a CEO of a company. Compare that to Middletown and its council and school board, for a true orange to orange analogy, and not a comparison that they are tied at all to Butler Cty Commision, the Auditors office, the Treasurer, or Sheriff.
I'd put my trust and faith in that Board over council, city leadership, and county commission, as that's who runs it, not the Mike Fox, Dixon gang. You know who calls the shots in Middletown, but facts are not accurate about the Butler Cty Health Bd tying it to commission and the county. The Middletown fire chief's secretary makes more than 99.9% of those county heath care professionals.
During the pandemic concern, they gave over 300,000 shots in every corner of the county. As Mr. Presta said, don't be fooled again by coupling the public safety hike and Middletown Health to pass the 1.75% tax rate.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 7:03am
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Mr.Self---yesterday was a good day for me, though I also hope that today will be better. As the topic header indicates, we were discussing the city health dept. and the possibilities of a takeover, consolidation or staying independant. No mention whatsoever of housing inspectors court system employees or anyone else's opinions of Mr.Kidd. You brought that garbage to the table. Probably better suited for one of your other NSP topics.
Mr.Kidd--we have no issues. I mostly agree with what you say. I don't believe that the city is on the hook for the new health center. Though it will be a good + for our city, especially in the chosen location. Maybe it could also involve the struggling Dream Center close by?
acclaro--you have me on the county health dept. NOT being under the thumb of County govt., as the local dept.serves at the whim of Council/Admin(who appoints board members--hires, fires and funds). Also correct on most $$ coming in from higher up grants etc. Maybe there will be a workable consolidation plan down the road that will adequately address the situation. I dunno--not involved there any more.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 9:01am
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sj, I want to assure you I am aware of the fine reoutation the city of Middletown Health group has, lts leader, Jackie Philips, Rick, and others. I also know Pat Burg well, and the nurses, and employees at the Butler Cty Health Department and they are first class, and run first class. The issue is not consolidation, the issue is---if they want a levy, forget it. Do what they di with what they have, and if they cannot handle it, Butler Cty Health can. There is no need for the levy for that reason, we are taxed to death, and if the need is that great, then consolidate. Your support of their work is admirable and they have a fine reputation, as does Butler Cty Health Department.
Mr. Self, I would be appreciative if you would send me a private email regarding who on the court (employee) was rejoicing in deliberately hassling Mr. Kidd. That type of retaliation is unconscionable by the court, I will personally assure it is given to the proper source to investigate immediately. I just need a name, not innuendo. Thank you.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:19am
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acclaro - something you wrote up above made me scratch my head. You said the Butler Cty. Board of Health is run by a Board of Directors. I'm curous who selects the members of the board or is there a requirement in law or in there own rules as to who and how the Board is comprised. The other part of that (which is the head scratching part), was when you said you'd trust that Board before you'd trust elected officials. Not knowing how the Butler Cty. Board of Health is selected qualifies this statement, but would you rather have your leaders selected for you or select them yourself ? I am becoming very uncomfortable about the idea that we no longer trust our own government. Am I seeing the world through idealistic eyes or do we just not have a government of the people, by the people and for the people! Because if we can't trust the government and won't change it, the fault lies in ourselves.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 11:04am
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TonyB- no disrepsect intended, but to keep the topic on topic let me summarize:
1) The issue and debate was should a levy be approved, my position which I believe the majority will agree, NO, a levy is not needed, and Butler Cty Health could pick up where there may be a perceived void in Middletown's offerings w/o a levy.
2) Butler Cty Health DOES NOT report to the commissioners and has a distant relationship with Butler Cty general operations
3) The Board has about 12 members, each within the health field or coming from a strong business leadership environment, with perhaps a wife who may be in the medical profession. There are times multiple candidates apply for positions (unpaid) and are selected upon their medical background and contribution weighed against the total composition of the Board. They DO NOT run for election, but submit their cv and background qualifications.
4) I'd take a Board of medical professionals overseeing the operations of medical professions over a city council or school board who are generalists and many times don't have the foogiest notion of the subject matter they are voting on---and become yes men and yes woman. AKA, Middletown city council on many subjects discussed. Do they have an m/a expert sitting? No. A civil engenner? No. A mediator and negotiator? No. A business development executive coming from private sector? No. A black belt certified in operational and talent restructuring? No. Compare that to a medical Board overseeing medical personel.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 11:47am
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acclaro - none taken. I was curious as to how the Board was comprised. With something as serious as public health, I would hope and pray that they would have knowledgable and qualified individuals willing to serve the community. The very fact that they do this for no compensation makes it a true public service. The health levy notwithstanding, does the city health department do an effective and efficient job? If they can justify to me that they need more resources to combat a potential health problem, I'll support it. Of course, there would have to be some mechanism to guarantee the funds were spent only by the health department for what they said they would be spent for. The "three card monte" that seems to go on with moving funds to and from different accounts makes that kind of guarantee the only way I'd support any tax increase. The same with an infrastructure fund. The same with a public safety levy. If they want to spell it out in the ballot language what the money is for and how it will be spent and if that does not happen the funds should be rebated to taxpayers. Your number 4 point makes me wonder about other boards at the city and county level. You point out quite correctly that elected representatives may not be knowledgeable about what they vote on and I wonder about other aspects of the city and county. Your point is well taken that about experts on other boards. I thought that for development we had MMF. I don't know about the qualifications or board make-up at the city or county level for other boards.
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Posted By: Government Big Broth
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 12:44pm
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GOD bless Middletown!!I
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 2:24pm
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Fair enough Mr.Self. Not interested in your inter-departmental gossip or eavesdropping. If you have specific comments made by specific individuals that you would like to relay about about other specific individuals--then spit it out. Quit beating around the bush with innuendos. Plenty of dirt on all of us. Small town--small talk. I seriously doubt that most within Admin like any of us, and many would love to see us go up in flames. No shocker there.This topic is based on the future of the Middletown Dept. of Health and it's possible joining with Public Safety for a .5% tax levy.
It has absolutely nothing to do with you or me. Sorry to refer to your post as garbage. Not a constructive tone--should have kept my thinking to myself.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 3:47pm
| Good lord, you are joking aren't you spider? The city thinks they can do nothing in services, take the previous funds for safety and the best paid workers in Middletown are the city workers, sperad that out among other departments, take away leaf pickup, destroy our streets and property value, and the fools in Middletown WILL STILL vote yes for a levy? I know the area is called Middletucky, and for a reason, but is there intelligence to be found in the city? 2.0%, what a joky. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 5:11pm
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I get it now spiderjohn. With the 2.0% request the ballot language will read:
"Do you favor raising rates associated with city tax collection which will also increase services for public health to 2.0% or keep the levy the same at 1.75%?" Oh, something is missing....the .25% roll back. Anyone wanting to organize to defeat this?
Time to quit letting a few roll over others when the city is doing nothing to earn 1.75%. Roll Tide (back to 1.5%). What do you think Bill, with the nice creation of the Bloated trademark for Middletown, how's this for a camapign defeat mantra----"Roll Tide" , Back to 1.5%. We'll call it the Walmart strategy, in those roll back price campaigns.
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Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 6:12pm
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I can see the flyers now: "Say no to a Bloated City Future, let's Roll Tide with our taxes back to 1.5%! ™"
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 6:34pm
| Wow! Fantastic and creative Bill. I'll put up a $$$ to have these on every car in town! Love it. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:16pm
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Acclaro:
Well, I’d like to help, but as a right wing, upper-class, arrogant, self-seeking, greedy, Wall Street-minded Republican I’m very busy robbing the middle class people of their pensions and mortgages.  Between that and taking food from orphans, stealing wheelchairs from the handicapped, and throwing old folks out of nursing homes, I just don’t know how I’d find the time!!!  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 10:51pm
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Mike, you can place me in the same category (LOL). But I will still do everything possible and do hope there is an interest in organizing fully to defeat the levy and roll back tax to 1.5%. Between PAC. C State, the school mess, property value ruination, traffic cameras, sewers that are anyone's problem but the city's, extreme incomes for kids that Dad or Mom worked for city hall making in the mid to upper $70's, and the willingness to fix streets by fronting the cash flow, without using tax money, and alloting about $600,000, or less than 1% of the city's operating budget for repair, this city needs to have a wake up call, its over.
And adding insult to injury, we now have the health department needing cash to educate us on swers that the city hasn't repaired in decades, and exposing all the students at Cincinnati State to disease borne by mosquito infected water! That's undoubtedly why they wanted to await the spender of the Manchester, until late fall and winter, when the mosquitos aren't so bad down by the Canal.
I also understand Mike you are starving the elderly, and won't allow illegal immigrants to obtain auto license just to get to and from work. And, because of your unwillingness to regulate Wall Street, we have Dick Creek and cancer clusters. Just think if you were a Democrat, we'd all be driving 70 MPG Prius's costing us $50,000. and applauding Obama pumping up gas to $7.00/gal for taxes, failures in going unto Lybia, that quick weekend victory Hilary predicted, and the devaluation of the dollar againt a barrel of crude. But, then as a Republican, you don't care about clean air, and its perfectly acceptable that Obama wiped out all gains in the renewal of Bush's tax cuts as inflation soars through the roof to keep our earth green and Robert Redford happy. Shameful to be a Republican!
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 11:05pm
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In all seriousness, City Hall has proven that they can't be trusted with stewardship over any "dedicated" tax. Count this "Tea Party Republican" IN on any "roll back the tax" effort!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 14 2011 at 11:24pm
| Well then, using the incredibly words of Todd Beamer, who helped bring down the doomed United jet headed for the White House into a crater in western Pennsylvania, what courage and patriotic sacrifice, "Lets Roll." And I do mean it. Non verba gratis. Action, not words this time around. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 6:32am
Shameful to be a Republican.......heck, shameful to be any politican on either side.....and......at any level. The entire Washington scene, Columbus scene and Middletown city scene, from a political/voter/citizen standpoint, is disgusting to see, hear and read about. Is there no one in our corner on anything that is important to the people? No one listening to what we want from our governments? Empty promise liars until elected. Ignoring the people after being elected......all of them. Wish we could clean house at all levels. Problem is, the replacements are clones of the trash we took out. No getting away from the  's we elect and try to replace. All products from the same assembly line.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 6:53am
Alright then.....what are we gonna do about it this time? Get a flyer constructed and printed to distribute to the people reminding them about the last safety levy, what it did (or didn't do) for us and how it was used? Take important topics discussed here and remind people what they are getting for their money in this city? Tell them about the advantages of consolidation with Butler County on the Health Levy issue? Explain why the city income tax needs to be rolled back to 1.5% from 1.75%? (can't imagine this being a hard sell) Develop a phone number to call for info? List of registered voters in Midd. from Hamilton? Is there a need to get more people registered to offset the city supporter votes? How do we motivate them to register and show up? Need their help, don't we? Mass mailing of the info packet discribed above to registered voter households? Cost? Meeting on who is doing what, where, when? Time ....place? Cost discussion for info packet/flyer mailing? Any distribution issues? Places to leave the info. for the most exposure on getting the info. to the people? Anyone want to take some copies to city hall and distribute?
How about some MMF businesses like Cohen Brothers?
Billboard costs? Who wants to get a list of people and addresses and personally mail a copy to our friends on council (of send the flyer in as an attachment in an E-mail) and at the city building and those city supporters and big doggies living on Main St. and in the Highlands area? How serious are we here? |
acclaro wrote:Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 8:57am
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Wouldn't it be much quicker, cheaper and easier to find four electable new Council candidates for November?
Without that, little else will be effective.
FAST CHEAP and EASY
jmo
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 9:14am
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Vet, I am dead serious and am willing to meet within a few days notice, to put together a plan of attack, begin fynd raising, to go door to door. I know how the system works in Middletown. First, they exploit the friends of friends, the catholic block (I am one so I know), they leverage the county Republicn party (I know I am one and was offered the number 3 position there which I wasn't interested in the pecking order), then the schools (MUM), then select neighborhoods and the nursing and assisted living homes. We need the lower demographics amd the areas above, getting out people who will vote, but need assistance to vote but the numbers are on the side of the people.
spiderjohn, four candidates? Impossible. Josh Laubach was a pleasant surprise to me, in my ward, and I DID vote for him. He is a diamond in the rough. Does he have some candidates that reflect his philosophy and style- I don't know. You---yiu would have tremendous support at large. I am out of town each week more than in town, I could not ever make a commitment, and on my days in state, travel to Columbus or Cincinnati.. We certainly do not need another AJ Smith.
Who do you have in mind? In at least two cycles, the only one whom stepped up among many I supported, including Mr. Nagy, who won, was Josh Laubach. MMF will have well known local residents, plucking an Allen out like they did before. And, I don't need a coucil member to pull my NO vote, I do that. That is priority 1, priority 2 takes care of itself, as even existing council would have no choice then but make the tough decisions. Their goal is to keep all downtown happy, our goal should be to take back the town they destroyed.
Agreed or disagreed? ;
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 10:45am
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mostly agree---though without Council support, "we" would have NO Admin support or clout.
In the end, the voters(by choosing a new Council majority focused on a different direction) can change the municipal landscape. I honestly don't see any other realistic way to turn it around in a reasonable time frame. A new Council can quickly change pretty much anything on your laundry list without expense or referendums.
We need representatives in the same vein as Ms.Andrews--willing to have dialogue with the MUSAs and similar un-organized but caring pockets of the community(taxpayers). Currently we have a Council that privately follows this site and related thinking, but publicly denigrates and be-littles the different direction and cost-containments.
For years(on my own--not really a team player) I have been trying to persuade to run for office those that I think could make a broad and progressive difference. Haven't had much luck. Mr.Smith and Mr.Laubaugh are learning, but have a LONG way to go before they really get it, since they have no real business or financial experience. Mr.Allen and Mayor Mulligan are both cool people, though not pokiticians in the direction we need to make this community whole in direction. Would hope that Ms.Scott-Jones can return--Mr.Becker is probably gone--am OK with Mr.Picard.
I have attended enough library meetings with 5-10 MUSA regulars. Not going anywhere. If you plan on following through with the mentioned intentions, you might need to find a very approachable and broadly respected front man to go along with at least 3 electable candidates(one good one to oppose Mr.Allen--I am working on that). Most here(including myself) have burned too many bridges along the way imo.
So--clarify--what exactly IS the approach being put together above?
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 11:25am
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sj, my personal interest and abilities lie in defeating the levy, and my approach would be to put the strategy and infrastructre to do exactly that---winning at the ballot box. Besides the obvious well knowns we both know, that would be too busy or just not intereested in running, the competent "outsiders" are travelers---tied up in court cases, clients, business, etc. No time to meet twice a month for meetings. Hence, my focus and interest is not as focused as stacking the deck as it is, straggling and starving the beast.
Ms. Andrew mentioned cause and affect- ergo Section 8. Perhaps she would have a vested interest, her husband, others that could be recruited. My take is almost all those whom are practicing in Middletown get swooned and overcome by the "love" downtown that they change their position quickly, adopting the "I workd for the city attitude."
To summarize, I could name 100 top folks with the talent to make impact, but would not have time. What don't you run, you'd have support, Ms. Andrew or friend of her philosophical beliefs, clones of J Laubach. Candidly, many I know are plotting to get out of twn right now, and running would be no interest.
Two choices, organize, and defeat levy, or sit on sideline, and watch a 2.0 levy pass, and Middletown continue to crumble. I'd rather see the beast be taken down, and be put on a diet.
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 12:02pm
Vet is right,it is shameful to be either one,Republican or Democrat they are both sorry as* parties and one in the same with the exact same agenda,just different wording.STOP VOTING ALONG PARTY LINES !!! Middeltown and Butler County I know are big time Republicans but it needs to stop !! What has a Republican done for anyone lately ? What has a Democrat done ? Absolutely nothing !! We have had the 2 party dictatorship way to long,people say they want change,they want their cities,counties and country back then stop putting these sorry BAST***S in office ! I don't care if you decide to go with a 3rd party and what party that would be just stop voting Republican & Democrat. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 1:03pm
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I believe that Council changes this fall, while any tax levy would be the following year--correct?
So--by electing the same-thinking new Councilmembers, there would be more support towards softening any levy approach(if possible). Just trying to keep it cheap and simple.
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Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 1:38pm
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sj, I agree it would start with council as you are absolutely correct, it will be 5 years anf next year, before the tax levy, with the execption of Health, as that may appear in November.
I would wholeheartedly support your candidacy, and am certain would others. I believe there would be a profile to be met in any candidate. Another JL, educated, college degree, engaged in city, wants change. You may have some in mind. I know a few who fit the profile, but uncertain if they have the time.
Jim Wendell comes to mind, but have no idea what his interest would be. Ms. Andrew seems to acknowledge the affect of Section 8 on the schools, and doesn't mind holding the candle light to that problem and the schools. If she desired, and could handle both roles, I would be a strong advocate for her. We'll see how the re-negotiation goes this summer in the school system.
I have no names that would want to serve, and I have eplored with a few. I suspect the council now, would all support a levy passing with one exception, and that includes ASJ. Back to where its been every year, not certain how many JL's are around Middletown.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 7:01pm
| I see that Hermes is a convert to my "VOTE THEM OUT" campaign although I suspect he held this belief before I posted a word on here. SJ, I believe your suggestion to simply elect candidates for council that will implement the kinds of reform advocated on this board to be the best chance for success. Getting committments from candidates and organizing a coherent campaign that will reach the voters is the challenge as I see it. Based on the apathy of the general electorate in this town and the difficulty of overcoming the deep pockets of the powers that be in this city will not be easy. The next 90 days will be crucial if any serious challenge is to take shape. Let's see what happens!!! |