Middletown Forum : Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Manager : Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? Tue, 06 Oct 2026 09:40:21 +0000 Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:16:07 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=2373 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Just a quick note Hermes I'll... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14313&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14313 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:16am

Just a quick note Hermes I'll be back later.
 
City Manager's Report 11/2008
 
 
"Budget Discussion – Public Safety is consuming more and more of the General

Fund Budget. Some cities have separate funds for police and fire divisions. Staff did

some research and ten years ago the percentage of the General Fund Budget that

went to Police and Fire was right at 63%, today we are at 70%. The City of

Middletown also had many more employees. The City of Kettering spends 41% of

their General Fund for Police and Fire. She stated the anticipated reserve in 2009 in

excess of 7 million dollars will go very quickly. She does appreciate the previous

City management and Council for making tough decisions to keep that reserve."

]]> Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:16:07 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14313&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14313 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Mr. Presta, I tend to shy away... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14270&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14270 Author: ashkicker
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 11:16pm

Mr. Presta,
 
I tend to shy away from the financial aspect of the department.  However, I will speak to the Chief and attempt to find the answer to your concerns.
 
I know you usually will quote your source when you blog, could you please direct me to where you got your information.  That information will be helpful when I speak to the Chief.
 
Thanks,
ashkicker 
]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:16:40 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14270&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14270 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : ashkicker wrote:... The tax... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14268&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14268 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 8:09pm

Originally posted by ashkicker ashkicker wrote:

... The tax levy that was passed was to maintain the level of service currently being provided. ...
Ashkicker:
This is where I take issue.  During budget discussions just about six months before the Public Safety Tax Increase was proposed, the police and fire chiefs stated that they needed only about $500,000 additional per year to bring their departments to full authorized strength at that time (including filling "frozen" positions).  This would have been an IMPROVEMENT to public safety from the then "status quo".
 
The tax increase brought in over $2.5 MILLION per year!  Part of the difference can be explained by raises, and I'm not saying that you folks who risk your lives to protect us don't deserve them, but your raises weren't THAT big!
 
What happened to the rest of the money?
 
Well, I can tell you, even though no one at city hall will.  It's the same old shell game.  Instead of ADDING the $2.5million to the Public Safety budgets, they simply first spent like drunken congressmen on all of their sillly risky schemes, and then used the Public Safety tax increase MILLIONS to bring the budgets in those departs back up to where they would have been in the first place.
 
In plain English, they WASTED the money that should have been budgeted to public safety, and then REPLACED it with the MILLIONS from the so-called "dedicated Public Safety Payroll Tax Increase"!!!
 
The net result is, even though the public is ponying up over $2.5 MILLION per year EXTRA for public safety, all the city is doing "maintaining the level of service currently being provided"!!
]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:09:50 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14268&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14268 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Pacman I would support moving... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14262&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14262 Author: Hermes
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 4:27pm

Pacman I would support moving towards using volunteers,I think it would be a great idea. Being a former resident of Ky where volunteer firemen are the norm ashkicker does have some points. Response times would fall dramatically to any emergency,fire or medical using volunteers. I'm not sure that the older generation of Middletonians would go for this. Most volunteers have higher insurance rates on their personal vehicles if they are equipped with lights & sirens,I have seen personally how this affects volunteer attitude. With business such as AK and the hospital and others I doubt they would like it. The union would no doubt fight this tooth and nail and since there is a union presence what would keep them from trying to organize volunteers ?
 
But as you state and show if it can work elsewhere it could work here.]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:27:25 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14262&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14262 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Pacman, If the residents of... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14261&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14261 Author: ashkicker
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 1:03pm

Pacman,
 
If the residents of Kettering have had no other fire department, what do they have to compare it to?
 
My hospital comment was to illustrate how you cannot believe everything you read in a
"professional" report.  If the hospital had left town, we would not have been in a worst situation, the citizens would have been.  We would still respond to emergencies, transport to the nearest facility and call in mutual aid from out of town to cover additional runs.  The result would have been a delay in treatment.
 
In station vs. out of station -- you call, dispatch dispatches and for 10 hours through the week, full time responders leave the station enroute to your emergency.  On the other hand, you call, dispatch dispatches, volunteers get dressed, get in their cars (maybe frost on their windows like this morning) drive to the station, get on their gear and respond to your emergency.
 
Sorry to hear about your heart attacks, I hope you have no lasting effects from them.
 
Yes Pacman, volunteers would work, the Police Department has "reserves".  In fact, the City could probably get by with three fire fighters on duty daily.  While it would work on paper, I feel the citizens would get shortchanged when it comes to service.  The big question is what level of service do the citizens want.  The tax levy that was passed was to maintain the level of service currently being provided.
 
Do you notice one of Kettering's fire station, Statiion 31, is manned strictly by volunteer and that station only had 7 volunteers.
 
ashkicker
]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:03:10 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14261&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14261 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : It Can Be done: The Virginia... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14254&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14254 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 9:01am

It Can Be done:
 

The Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad was formed to act solely as a Rescue Squad/First Aid Crew to:

Provide pre-hospital emergency medical care 24 hours a day every day of the year to citizens and visitors of the City at no cost.

Since 1952, this is what we have been doing, and doing it very well.

Today we have:

  • 100+ active members

  • 20+ administrative members

State of the art equipment:

  • 6 ALS certified ambulances

  • 1 BLS certified ambulance

  • 1 heavy rescue/squad truck (ALS certified - non-transport)

  • 1 support/utility vehicle (ALS certified - non-transport)

  • 2 medically equipped response cart

Manning:

  • 1 ambulance staffed 24 hours (Rescue-14)

  • 1 additional ambulance staffed 12 hours (6PM to 6AM at Rescue-8)

  • Squad Truck staffed every 5th day in rotation with other volunteer squads

    The Virginia Beach Volunteer Rescue Squad responds to nearly 9,000 calls each year. Approximately one-third of the calls run in the City of Virginia Beach are handled by our station.

    Our training program and probationary period is one of the best and has produced some of our system's highly respected members.

]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:01:50 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14254&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14254 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Ashkicker I read the study before... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14252&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14252 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 28 2009 at 8:57am

Ashkicker I read the study before I even made the original post and I saw nothing earth shattering there.  Residents of Kettering are I believe 96-98% satisfied with their fire service currently according to the city. 
 
The run time to the hospital is what it is, nothing is going to change that.  If the hospital had left town altogether you would be in a much worse situation than you are now.
 
Would the remaining firefighters get a $10k raise...........ah probably No.
 
Your in station coverage comment I don't get.  Paid Firefighters 10 hrs a day and Volunteers the other 14 hrs. would be how it would work. 
 
As far as my volunteerring I would think my two Heart Attacks would preclude that happening, but I would be more than happy to volunteer in some other  capacity.
]]> Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:57:03 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14252&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14252 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : See Pacy, when you show some Intelligence... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14240&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14240 Author: lrisner
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 27 2009 at 11:57am

See Pacy, when you show some Intelligence and quit blaming the City Workers, You can come up with some Ideas! That would in fact, just about meet my previously stated opinion that the City needed to lose about 30% of it's Employees (Administrators are Employees too!).

Keep up the good work.
]]> Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:57:58 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14240&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14240 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Pacman, http://www.ci.kette... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14221&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14221 Author: ashkicker
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 26 2009 at 3:45pm

Pacman,
 
http://www.ci.kettering.oh.us/newweb/pdfs/about/MgmtStudyofFireFinalDraft.pdf
 
Read it over and let me know what you think about this report.  Matrix is the same company the City of Middletown contracted to study our department.  In Middletown's report, the Matrix Group stated the hospitals move east would not affect run times.  Anybody making that drive can see the additional run time the hospital move has created.
 
The volunteers Kettering uses are from their community, I take it you would be first in line for an application?
 
http://www.serb.state.oh.us/sections/research/Web%20Contracts/06-CON-03-1718.pdf
 
As of 09/01/08, base pay for a 40 hour per week fire fighter with a Paramedic certification -- $68,078
     (I think their 50 hour employees make the same amount)
As of 01/01/10, base pay for a 51 hour per week fire fighter with a Paramedic certification -- $58,600
     ($58,400 base pay plus $200 paramedic certification pay)
 
So thinking outside your box, I would get a $10,000 raise and decrease my hours of work by 1 hour per week.  The citizens would go from 24 hour in station coverage to 10 hour in station coverage throught the week.  Not having in station coverage increases the response time to YOUR emergency.
 
So jag123, the IAFF would probably go for that pay increase and work week reduction.
 
ashkicker
]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:45:46 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14221&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14221 Middletown Paid/Volunteer Fire Dept????? : Vet, Monday morning I will send... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14220&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14220 Author: randy
Subject: 2373
Posted: Nov 26 2009 at 3:16pm

Vet, Monday morning I will send an email to some city officials that still talk to me and see what kind of response I am able to get.]]> Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:16:18 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2373&PID=14220&title=middletown-paid-volunteer-fire-dept#14220