Middletown Forum : An open reply to Ms. Andrew

Middletown Forum : An open reply to Ms. Andrew http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : School Board : An open reply to Ms. Andrew Tue, 06 Oct 2026 20:14:58 +0000 Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:10:34 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=2515 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Spider: Exactly! It is the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15682&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15682 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 8:10pm

Spider:

Exactly! It is the mindset of MMF and city hall to speak only of the "good" things about Middletown, ignore the problems, and attack those who attempt to bring the problems to the light of day.

They cannot distinguish the difference between reality and negativity. They malign and ostracize those who attempt to address real problems but celebrate and elevate those who "paint and party".

A good coat of paint (like a good layer of make-up

) can hide a lot of defects, but the next morning, nothing has really changed.

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:10:34 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15682&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15682 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Virtually everyone has the same... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15665&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15665 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 2:36pm

Virtually everyone has the same opinion here except for Council/Admin.

I don't look for them to change anything, and actually expect the # of vouchers to INCREASE.

The effect on the school system is hardly lost to the citizenry, and the effects on our business community have also been devastating, (particularly west of Breiel Blvd.).

When the ggovt.subsidy $$ runs out after the first week of each month, the recipients have literally no $$ to spend until the following month. Compund this issue by not having employment options available, and many recipients not being able/capable to hold employment of any type regardless.

Nothing against the Section 8 voucher holders at all.

They are simply using a service offered.

A problem being that this situation here is so well-known throughout the area(and beyond), that we have attracted people from everywhere.

This situation was created by our planning dept. I believe, and filtered through numerous city managers and Councils/Commissions with everyone involved either a willing participant or asleep at the wheel.

The buck stops downtown.

I have tried to discuss this issue with everyone from Council to Admin(specifically Economic Development), however I cannot even get anyone to take an appointment or listen.

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:36:21 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15665&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15665 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Pacman, I think you and I agree... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15662&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15662 Author: Marcia Andrew
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 1:29pm

Pacman,

I think you and I agree on the Section 8 issue. You are correct that Mr. Fiora and I raised it at the last joint meeting with City Council. I tried to make the point that the dramatic increase in Section 8 vouchers has had a substantial negative impact on the city's schools, since socio-economic status is the single most determinative factor in how kids perform in school. I am not trying to tell Council how to do their jobs, I understand that there are many factors that they must consider in figuring a way out of the current over-supply of vouchers. I wanted them to understand how it has made the schools' job harder, and I'm not sure they all understood or agreed with my point.

To answer your specific question, I do not know what we can do to convince council of the importance of this issue. Having a "good program" may solve crime and other issues for the city, but it doesn't address the imbalance of low- or no-income residents (which harms not only the schools, but the whole city).

Marcia Andrew

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:29:46 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15662&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15662 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Thank you Ms. Andrew for your... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15651&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15651 Author: VietVet
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 7:04am

Thank you Ms. Andrew for your information. I appreciate your efforts to inform us on the various topics.]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:04:22 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15651&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15651 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Ms. Andrew: Kasson states: "As... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15649&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15649 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 6:59am

Ms. Andrew:

Kasson states:

"As an example, in order to graduate all kids must take health, speech, phys. ed., a tech course, etc. So in these classes they mix all ability levels, so there are the highest performing kids in the same class as the troublemakers. This was a real "eye opener" for us. My child came home with reports of kids yelling cuss words at teachers, walking out of class and the worst- throwing chairs and desks across the room and kids having to duck in order not to be hit! Those classes were a waste bbecause the teachers spent all their time disciplining students and not teaching. My child did her homework for other classes in those classes. The exception was P.E. as my child took that in summer school for two summers. In my opinion, those classes should be segregated, just like the academics. So, the moral of the story, so to speak, is yes, once again Section 8 and all the poverty in this town and this is not the BOE's domain, it is your city council!!!"

This is a major part of the problem in MCSD. Now at the last Combined meeting of the MCSD and the City Council this issue was brought up by I believe you and Mr. Fiora, if I remember correctly, and the City Council, Marconi in particular just glossed over the issue and the bottom line is that now according to Marconi we have or they are striving for the best Section 8 program around. Now this hardly addresses the problem or the fact that Middletown City Council and Admin have placed the City and the MCSD in a very poor position with Excessive poverty, Section 8 and Public Housing.

What can be done between the City residents and the MCSD to impress upon the City Council and City Admin the seriousness of this matter and that it needs to be addressed so that the City and the MCSD can improve in the future? Simply having the best Section 8 program in the word is fine and not the issue or answer to the problem, it is just sugar coating the problem. Excessive Section 8 for a city the size of Middletown is the issue which the City Admin and Council ignore for the most part and refuse to deal with.

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:59:26 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15649&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15649 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Kasson, do the Student and the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15647&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15647 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 6:45am

Kasson, do the Student and the Parents determine if a Child is going the AP Course route? Been a while since I was in High School and back then you basically had the Academic Route, AP, or you took the Auto Shop, etc. route, which is no longer offered in High Schools?]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:45:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15647&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15647 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Mr. Presta, Yes, now that... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15645&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15645 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 5:42am

Mr. Presta,

Yes, now that you have laid it out, I can see how you came to the conclusion you did about the timing of the selection of the three finalists. I still don't think it was the most plausible or reasonable conclusion based on the facts as you knew them, but I think I understand your viewpoint. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

Ms. Andrew:

Thank you for taking the time and having the patience to hear me out. I realize that I have a tendency to be quite verbose. I would really be interested in hearing the more “plausible or reasonable conclusion based on the facts” as we knew them, but this is not the time or the place. Perhaps if we are ever stuck waiting at some local civic event you will favor me with more detail on that position.

I am pleased that I was able to present our “case” well enough at least for you to understand our viewpoint. By this point, most others from the “city hall side”, would have called us kooks, crazy bloggers, nutty conspiracy theorists, or liars, or would have simply disappeared.

Should there ever be an occasion that you wonder how those from the “crazy blogger camp ” might feel about an issue, feel free to contact me. I assure you, at the minimum, an honest assessment. If it involves a position with which I agree, I will even offer to assist, if possible.

As Kasson has already pointed out, the Board did give notice of all meetings with the search consultant. Each started as a public meeting, and the ones where we discussed particular candidates went into executive session, as noticed.

Yes, and as I stated, that is exactly how it should have been to the best of my understanding of the law. Even though I was unaware of those facts, I already acknowledged this as an error on my part, and I do apologize. It does not surprise me that I missed the notices on the District web site, or that I didn’t watch the announcements at the end of the regular board meetings. I am quite surprised that I saw nothing in The Journal, either before or after either event noting that these would be special meetings for executive sessions. (The point being that I read both the e-Journal and the print version daily. Maybe they put it in the Sports section? )

Regards,

Mike Presta

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:42:11 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15645&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15645 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Another tidbit... how many of... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15643&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15643 Author: kasson
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 1:53am

Another tidbit... how many of your city council members attended a public school?...how many sent their kids to public school?...or their grandkids???]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:53:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15643&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15643 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : Wasteful, I cannot answer your... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15642&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15642 Author: kasson
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 1:11am

Wasteful,

I cannot answer your question as to why less than half of the students feel safe in school; I can only tell you my family's experiences and believe me, I would not send my child to MHS if I didn't feel as if she were safe.

What we have experienced over the last 4 years is that MHS almost has a high school within a high school. The better performing kids are placed in advanced classes as freshmen, then can take a honors math class and AP American History as a sophomore, filling out their schedule with advanced classes. Then as a junior they can take almost all honors (there are only 4 offered), and AP classes. As a senior, again more AP, honors and/or the PSEO at MUM. Because of this all of the higher performing students have almost all their classes together. These are kids that care about learning, generally have parents that are involved in their child's education, and plan on going to college. They are the "good" kids (at least most of them), they are heavily involved in extracurriculars, and volunteer in the community. They respect their parents (most of the time :)) and their teachers. There are little to no disclipine problems with these kids. These are the kids that are hardly ever absent or tardy. These are the kids you do not hear about. Why? Because they don't create problems and just go about their business. There is nothing newsworthy to report about them. They do what you would expect every child to do. There are alot of these kids at MHS, more than you would guess, you just don't hear about them. You only hear about the troublemakers. Why? Because they make the news, in one way or another.

Now about the test scores...exactly what Mrs. Andrew and alot of others have been saying...as your socioeconomic profile goes down so do your test scores. It is a proven fact. MCSD is inundated with low socioeconomic kids (70% plus free and reduced lunch). These kids are in so-called "regular" classes, could care less about learning, are discipline problems, skip class, etc. ( I am of course, generalizing). Who I feel sorry for is the kid who is in "regular" classes who really wants to learn and has all these troublemakers in there that are causing problems.

As an example, in order to graduate all kids must take health, speech, phys. ed., a tech course, etc. So in these classes they mix all ability levels, so there are the highest performing kids in the same class as the troublemakers. This was a real "eye opener" for us. My child came home with reports of kids yelling cuss words at teachers, walking out of class and the worst- throwing chairs and desks across the room and kids having to duck in order not to be hit! Those classes were a waste bbecause the teachers spent all their time disciplining students and not teaching. My child did her homework for other classes in those classes. The exception was P.E. as my child took that in summer school for two summers. In my opinion, those classes should be segregated, just like the academics.

So, the moral of the story, so to speak, is yes, once again Section 8 and all the poverty in this town and this is not the BOE's domain, it is your city council!!!

]]> Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:11:27 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15642&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15642 An open reply to Ms. Andrew : VietVet, 1. Middletown does... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15637&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15637 Author: Marcia Andrew
Subject: 2515
Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 10:03pm

VietVet,

1. Middletown does not do quite as well as Hamilton on state tests. Both districts are in Continuous Improvement, although Hamilton has a higher overall Performance Index, and more indicators met. However, Hamilton's student population is not quite as needy. Franklin and Miamisburg are both rated excellent, but the demographics of their student population is not even close:

Middletown: 70.3% white, 67.1 % free/reduced, 17.9% special needs

Hamilton: 76.6% white, 58.8% free/reduced, 16.5% special needs

Frankllin: 96.7% white, 36.5% free/reduced, 17.3% special needs

Miamisburg: 86.1% white, 29.6% free/reduced, 13.9 % special needs

Springfield: 63.3% white, 67% free/reduced, 16.5% special needs.

Springfield is fairly close in terms of the demographics and size. They are also in Continuous Improvement, 1 less indicator met than Middletown and a few points lower on the overall performance index.

2. Enrollment in the district has stabilized. I don't have official numbers for this school year, but I don't think it declined, and it did not decline last year either. The 8 remaining elementary schools are well-utilized--visit them and you will not find empty classrooms. Some grades in some buildings are actually oversubscribed. The district had to build based on projections it had at the time, and projections are only that, they are not guarantees.

3,4,5: I stand by my original answers.

6. I agree, if something isn't working, it should be changed. Where we disagree is your assumption that because results haven't changed, its business as usual. There have been changes in the job expectations of assistant principals, as well as some changes in the faces filling those jobs.

7. The huge increase in Section 8 housing in Middletown is really a question for city council, not the BOE. The BOE did raise this concern with City Council. There response has been that the increase did not occur on their watch, and now that the people are here, they can't just kick them out on the street.

8. Police officers in the secondary schools is just one element of an approach to discipline that includes multiple levels of intervention. Thanks to Wasteful for posting some of the data from the Journal article I was referring to in my previous post. You can see from those numbers that MCSD does resort to the courts when necessary and appropriate. The severity of the consequences imposed on parents by the courts is up to the courts and the state legislature, not the BOE. Truancy is just one example of the issues that are more likely to be present for kids from economically disadvantaged households; the lower referral numbers for Lakota and Fairfield is some evidence of this phenomenom.

Thank you for the opportunity to answer your questions. I appreciate your interest in and concern for our schools.

Marcia Andrew

]]> Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:03:34 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2515&PID=15637&title=an-open-reply-to-ms-andrew#15637