Middletown Forum : What can we do? http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : Middletown News, Info and Happenings : What can we do? Tue, 06 Oct 2026 16:02:52 +0000 Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:28:13 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=2655 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ What can we do? : The taxpayer would be the plaintiff... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16591&title=what-can-we-do#16591 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 10:28pm

The taxpayer would be the plaintiff and would benefit in the award of damages were awarded. I believe the premise Mike Presta stated was a class action suit. no, the taxpayer would not be billed on a loss to the city. That isn't covered in an ordinance to raise taxes to 20%. Yes, the city would have an insurance policy against loss, and I'm sure it has a specified amount. I;d assume many residents would be happy to settle at the maximum level in the policy wouldn't you? I doubt if this would ever get off the ground. Too many in Middletown prefer to be run over the city.    ]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:28:13 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16591&title=what-can-we-do#16591 What can we do? : Just for grins and giggles, lets... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16567&title=what-can-we-do#16567 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 11:31am

Just for grins and giggles, lets say you win a $100,000,000.00 judgementLOL against the city.  Now never mind the award of $100,000,000.00 who is actually going to pay your lawyer fees of say 1/3 or $33,000,000.00 or whatever the agreed amount in lawyer fees would be.  Is the city insured for that much or will we the taxpayer end up footing the bill.Confused]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:31:39 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16567&title=what-can-we-do#16567 What can we do? : By the way, the most logical action... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16562&title=what-can-we-do#16562 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 9:54am

By the way, the most logical action to be taken (and above seems logical to me on the civil side), is the beast must be starved. Some degree of organization must be initiated, to defeat the school levey. Then the next big election to push back the 1.75% tax increase. In fact, that might be a logical petition to do now, to get enough signatures to set aside the tax imcrease, based upon what I've read is many believe the use of the money was not public safety only, but did not fill positions and was diverted elsewhere.
 
It starts with logical goal setting.  Spider hit it right on, starve the beast, get some attention, and the city certainly is providing little services. At the same time, start listing potential damages. I have some I've strawmaned which I believe to be accurate. I'm sure others have many ideas and knowledge. What about the canal, and additional damage to those living next to it in property decline?
]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:54:47 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16562&title=what-can-we-do#16562 What can we do? : Mike, I've read your posts... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16560&title=what-can-we-do#16560 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 9:21am

Mike, I've read your posts many times associated along these lines. First, you have to bifurcate (split) the two issues: civil and criminal. I have no idea and have taken no time, to understand criminal allegations. They cannot be pursued neceassay at the same time or normally aren't, because one court can be used as a collection agency for the other. That's an argument I make regarding the city ordinance for the city tax ordinance- it is a M1 if they allege you haven't filed, even if you owe nothing, so you'll gladly pay court costs on the civil side and the civil penalty. That should be taken out of the ordinance is one which could be constitutionally challenged.
 
No attorney would take this pro se. A good starting point, after understanding what claims would be, would be to contact the ACLU, and inquire about pro se action. You could include many actions to entice their interest, perhaps the cameras and their constitutionality, some of the retaliation others have spoken, some of the accusations I've read about from Mr. Self.
 
Criminal misdoings are easy to file, they can of course be done at the Ohio AG office, which I again, state I am not knowledgeable to know what such accusations to be (if its meeting in private, etc- I know their are adminsitartive complaints that can be filed with the appropriate agency and a formal investiogation and hearing would be heard).
 
As for civil, perhaps the cities misuse of funds although probably legal, such as taking infrastructure funds, could support damages wich drove propery values don, as well as the error made in the over stock of accepting 80% of section 8 within the county. The allegation would be the effect upon property values. I think there would need to be 4-5 significant actions, that were either intentional, willful, or simple neglect, which occurred, and then damages calculated upon all residents. Did Middletown's actions decrease on average values of a resident by $15,000. times 10,000 homes. That gets a contingency attorney's attention. And that is the type of action that Schiavone (attorney) used in Monroe associated with Coke, and that was future damage, not past.
 
There would be no difficulty in finding an attorney who would take a contingency case based upon the above, IF the damages were real, calcuable, and direct or proximate to the city of Middletown's action. As I don't know enough about criminal wrongdoing, I'd recommend leaving that up to those who either know or were involved in such allegations, and that is a state matter---simply report to the proper agency or AG.
 
For civil, I believe actions such as using infrastructure funds to pay for the hospital land is a strong civil claim, while it may have helped payroll for the city, it did nothing for property values. Combine that with others, such as the continued misuse and lack of willingness to alter the ordinance on infrastructure funds, and another strong claim appears, associated with the reduction in property values, and a class action suit associated with residents impacted. Section 8 is obvious. At the end of the day, probably 5-7 actions could be identified, and that would support damages of $ tens of millions.       
]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:02 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16560&title=what-can-we-do#16560 What can we do? : Guys we are talking years with... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16559&title=what-can-we-do#16559 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 8:56am

Guys we are talking years with a lawsuit and thousands of dollars.  While the recall will take months and cost much less.  4-6 weeks to plan, 90 days to collect signatures, 2-4 weeks to verify signatures, 5 days for potential recall person to respond and 30-40 days for the election, total time 6-7 months.]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:56:52 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16559&title=what-can-we-do#16559 What can we do? : Vet, I am certain that it would... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16558&title=what-can-we-do#16558 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 8:43am

Vet, I am certain that it would be thousands of dollars, many thousands.
 
I know a couple of attorneys who might cut us a break if I did some of the legwork and research, but they don't handle these kinds of cases.  There is always the option of filing a "Pro Se" action (meaning acting as one's own attorney), but the odds of prevailing are long, especially here in Butler County, which I believe is the proper venue.
]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:43:28 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16558&title=what-can-we-do#16558 What can we do? : A class action suit on behalf... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16554&title=what-can-we-do#16554 Author: VietVet
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 6:52am

A class action suit on behalf of the citizens of Middletown against the individuals representing the city or perhaps the city itself? How much would this cost to hire a law firm that would tackle this for us? Depending on how many people we could get to contribute to the attorney fee pot, what kind of money are we talking about for each of us to dole out? Who would research the law firm with the best record of representation of a class action suit similar to this? How would we get the word out to solicit funds for this endeavor? How much interest do you think we would have from citizens outside this domain? Why am I asking all these questions?    I'll contribute to the pot what I can afford just to see some of these 's squirm. ]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:52:46 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16554&title=what-can-we-do#16554 What can we do? : "What can we do?"... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16552&title=what-can-we-do#16552 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 5:50am

"What can we do?"

That was the topic of this thread.

We have explored the various avenues that can be taken to initiate change, and there has been some talk outside of this forum of similar things. I think that there is agreement that at least some Middletonians are ready to take action, but are there enough of us...and what course do we take???

Well, there is one course that we have not discussed, and it is a road less traveled. I, myself, have started along this road years ago (1999) but lost my way...and I consider myself a pretty good navigator.

I believe--and I think that many others believe as well--that many of our elected and appointed public officials are, or have been, guilty of malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance in office. Most of these acts would require them to vacate their offices. Some could even rise to the level of felonies!!!

While I believe that I can document events or actions that in and of themselves would justify ridding us of most of the “bad actors” at City Hall, the problem lies in getting someone to prosecute them. One would think that just bringing these matters to the attention of a judge, someone in the Attorney General’s office or similar government official would be enough, but it does not seem to be.  It seems to be up to private citizens to file suit in civil courts to stop these civic crimes.

So, I just thought that I’d throw this other option out there, and see if anyone had any thoughts.

]]> Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:50:22 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16552&title=what-can-we-do#16552 What can we do? : From an outsiders view that has... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16541&title=what-can-we-do#16541 Author: sportsnut
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 12:02pm

From an outsiders view that has family interests in the city - I think you focus on one council member to recall. IMO Smith/Laubach/Scott-Jones will do well for the citizens of Middletown. Find someone that is really strong in their beliefs of changing the city and focus on getting that person on council by recalling the appropriate council member. This will bring a voting block of four to council and may result in real change. Don't try and go for the homerun of eliminating all the council members you dislike - that will come in time - going for one will be a smaller, easier to accomplish task. JMO]]> Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:02:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16541&title=what-can-we-do#16541 What can we do? : We shouldn't do anything... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16537&title=what-can-we-do#16537 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2655
Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 10:27am

We shouldn't do anything once again back to square 1.  I doubt the School Levy is going to fail.  So we vote down the Library levy wow that is going to shake them up downtown.  Hey Mr. Laubach do you need a recognizable name to win.....no you don't.  You need to take a stance on the issues.  If you want to marginalize Becker for now you take him out with a recall.  If you wait 2 years and try to run against him, if he decides to run, it is much tougher. ]]> Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:27:52 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2655&PID=16537&title=what-can-we-do#16537