Middletown Forum : Are we getting our Monies worth

Middletown Forum : Are we getting our Monies worth http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Manager : Are we getting our Monies worth Tue, 06 Oct 2026 08:36:51 +0000 Sat, 03 Apr 2010 18:14:17 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=2844 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Are we getting our Monies worth : Thanks wasteful! When I saw this... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18040&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18040 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 6:14pm

Thanks wasteful! When I saw this I really almost fell off my chair. At least two of these commissioners need to go, don't know much about Mr. Dixon, but at least he made an effort to evaluate salaries. Between Middletown council and Butler Cty, this is really an unfortunate situation for the taxpayer. Thanks or making this available, maybe others had the same reaction I did; more dumbfounded and in shock than angry.]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 18:14:17 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18040&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18040 Are we getting our Monies worth : Video http://www.middletown... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18039&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18039 Author: wasteful
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 2:23pm

Video

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/argument-erupts-between-commissioners-607401.html

]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:23:55 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18039&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18039 Are we getting our Monies worth : You may have read the artcile... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18038&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18038 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 1:59pm

You may have read the artcile and youtube link showing Furmon and Dixon at Butler Cty going at it, over Furman complaining how his Hazard or Eastern Kentucky neighbor was downgraded and needed $93,000. as she was a nice person. Then, the fact they (Butler Cty Commission) couldn't get an agreement to have the payscale evalution agreed to be moved forward. It might upset this outlandish salaries and perks. When you see levies coming, just look at the facts folks, how stacked the overhead is, and how they just want to keep it in existence, using whatever excuses, means, scapegoats, as possible. SpiderJohn called it right some time ago....it a beast that requires alot of care and feeding- with no return. The "pet" costs too much to maintain. ]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 13:59:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18038&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18038 Are we getting our Monies worth : Hmmmmm I have never heard of DROP... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18037&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18037 Author: wasteful
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 11:37am

Hmmmmm I have never heard of DROP until I read the article above. Just for everyone's edification.....WOW:

http://www.op-f.org/default.asp

Current contribution rates

Current contribution rates are 19.5 percent of reportable payrolls for employers of police officers and 24 percent for employers of firefighters. This is in addition to full–time police officers and firefighters contributing 10 percent of their gross salary to OP&F.

	Police officers	Firefighters
Member contribution	10% of gross salary	10% of gross salary
Employer contribution	19.5% of gross salary	24% of gross salary

Proposed changes to contribution rates

In early 2006, the Ohio Retirement Study Council (ORSC), an organization created to assist the state legislature, governor and other public officials in the formation of sound public pension policies, reported that OP&F does not currently meet the state’s 30–year funding requirement. While OP&F is fully able to meet its current obligations, the Board had to develop and present recommendations to ORSC that included adjustments to bring OP&F into compliance with Ohio’s statutory funding requirements while meeting its fiduciary responsibilities. Among the proposed changes were adjustments to the employer and member contributions paid to OP&F.

The recommendations presented by OP&F's Board in 2006 would adjust employer contributions for police officers by raising the amount to 24 percent over a five–year period, which OP&F recommended being phased in at one percent per year. OP&F has also recommended that pension contribution withholdings for active police officers and firefighters be raised from the current 10 percent to 12 percent over the same five–year period.

The OP&F Board of Trustees does not have authority to make the employer and member contribution adjustments; they can only recommend the changes. The Ohio General Assembly will have to pass legislation to allow any change in contributions. As decisions are made, information will be announced through direct mail and articles in the Employer Digest.

]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 11:37:44 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18037&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18037 Are we getting our Monies worth : I wonder if the city has recently... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18036&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18036 Author: Bill
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 11:26am

I wonder if the city has recently paid for a consultant to do a report on the comp of city staff and compare it to similar cities in the area. I doubt it.]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 11:26:05 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18036&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18036 Are we getting our Monies worth : Pension packages top $1 million... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18035&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18035 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 9:07am

Pension packages
top $1 million for

Cincinnati police,
fire chiefs

By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com
• February 14, 2010

This story first appeared in the February 14, 2010
edition of the Cincinnati Enquirer

Having risen through the ranks, Cincinnati Police
Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. and Fire Chief Robert

Wright will scale one final impressive height
when, thanks to a very generous pension plan,
each wraps up his career with a $1 million
retirement and benefits package.

Having risen through the ranks, Cincinnati Police
Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. and Fire Chief Robert

Wright will scale one final impressive height
when, thanks to a very generous pension plan,
each wraps up his career with a $1 million
retirement and benefits package.

In Streicher's case, that lump sum will come on
top of an estimated $92,000-a-year pension and
the more than $235,000 he could receive from
the city as a result of 3,700 hours of unused
holiday, vacation and sick days.

Wright, who could cash out about $106,000 in
unused leave and comp time when he retires,
will receive a pension expected to start out at
about $89,000. Wright's pension, like Streicher's,
will rise with annual cost-of-living increases.

Although the two chiefs put themselves in that
enviable financial position simply by taking
advantage of city and state policies governing
pensions, overtime and comp time, the huge pay
days awaiting them poses a thorny question:
Should a public official retire as a millionaire –
pre-tax, at least – solely on the basis of his
pension and related benefits?

"It's outrageous, morally offensive, and I say that
as a public official myself," said Steve Erie, a
political science professor at the University of
California, San Diego, and a widely respected
expert on public pensions and compensation.

"You don't expect to see a police chief leave with
that kind of check in his pocket," Erie added.
"The Cincinnati Police Department ought to have
a recruiting poster saying, 'You, too, can be a
millionaire.' This definitely is the end of the
rainbow. And you wonder why people are so
disgusted with government."

The large payments in Streicher's and Wright's
future stem from Ohio's Deferred Retirement
Option Plan (DROP), which permits public safety
officers to build sizable nest eggs in exchange
for reduced lifetime pensions.

To be eligible for DROP, individuals must be at
least 48 with 25 years of service as a police
officer or firefighter. When an officer joins DROP,
he or she officially "retires," for pension
purposes, but retains the same job. While that
caps their future pension, as long as they remain
in DROP – for at least three years and up to eight
– the monthly pension they otherwise would
draw accumulates in a separate account, along
with interest and a portion of their 10 percent of
salary contributions.

]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:07:15 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18035&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18035 Are we getting our Monies worth : Mike I know what you are saying.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18033&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18033 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 8:26am

Mike I know what you are saying. But the whole point here is that the city can not continue on the path it is taking with Public Safety and survive. The city can not continue to add $400,000.00+/- to its payroll year after year just for Public Safety, while firing non-union workers, at some point it is going to collapse. The time to deal with matter is now not when you are on the verge of financial disaster. The Unions don't seem to get it as they just continue on as usual.

The Police and Fire Dept. can not continue on with this I am entitled to 2-3% raises a year and these exceptional benefits, paying 7+/-% of their health care benefits when the rest of the world is paying 25+/-% plus including the Federal employees, forever at some point the city is going to have to start laying off the Police and Fire employees.

Just like Sheriff Jones walked in one morning and laid off 15 deputies and the FOP cried foul as they were not even aware of the layoffs coming.

As far as not being a Union Shop, I'd close down before I would do that. As far as the Human Relations Director, I go home with her every night, hehehehe that is my Wife, The Boss.

Don't tell her I said that.

Things have got to change Mike between the excessive poverty and Section 8 on one hand and the "entitlement" mentality on the other the end they are going to drag this city down and those of us in the Middle will be the fatalities.

]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 08:26:34 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18033&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18033 Are we getting our Monies worth : Pacman wrote:acclaro you are... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18032&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18032 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 03 2010 at 1:44am

Pacman wrote:

acclaro you are exactly right. I own my own business and since March of 2008 when gas prices started rising and then the economy tanked until March 2010, I have successfully cut over $66,000.00 a year in expenses from my business. There was nothing that I didn't look at and the fat was cut including my salary, but I am surviving and when all is said and done I will be better off for the cuts I made.

Pacman,

It is not fair to compare your business to a governmental agency!!!

First, you have an “open shop,” so there is no unions with which to deal. Your workforce is both dedicated and loyal and I daresay that even if that “Card Check” thingie becomes law, your workforce will reject unions no matter how many times they try to organize.

Next, you have the full faith and confidence of your board of directors. Governmental agencies often report to elected officials who may not be on the same page (either with the government staff or with each other) or may be corrupt. They sometimes have to “sneak behind everyone’s back” to do stuff while you can do whatever you like and your BoD will stand behind you.

Also, I’ve heard that all of your employees are classified as “salaried, exempt,” and therefore can be forced to work long, hard hours with no additional compensation. Governmental entities cannot do this.

In addition, I have spoken with your Director of Human Relations, and I’d wager that he sides with you 100% of the time, and that it does absolutely no good for your employees to complain about anything.

]]> Sat, 03 Apr 2010 01:44:22 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18032&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18032 Are we getting our Monies worth : Pacman, for years companies use... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18030&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18030 Author: acclaro
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 7:41pm

Pacman, for years companies use the term CI, continuous improvement, to refer to continually cutting costs, best practices, running lean and mean. There was re-engineering the corporation, the big thing in the mid 90's, to Six Sigma and all those Master Blackbelts out there making about what the city manager makes. In the same breath, but with different meaning, there is the school's CI, continuous improvement. So, the city doesn't practice what it should, continuous improvement to drive down costs, and the school system scores Continuous Improvement, not a good thing. Startling contradictions.

Folks have no idea how badly they are being impacted upon taxes and such. A $50.00 cell phone bill is taxed about $8.00, or about 15%, for the privilege of using a cell phone. We are taxed to death and its killing our society.

]]> Fri, 02 Apr 2010 19:41:42 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18030&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18030 Are we getting our Monies worth : acclaro you are exactly right.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18028&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18028 Author: Pacman
Subject: 2844
Posted: Apr 02 2010 at 12:33pm

acclaro you are exactly right. I own my own business and since March of 2008 when gas prices started rising and then the economy tanked until March 2010, I have successfully cut over $66,000.00 a year in expenses from my business. There was nothing that I didn't look at and the fat was cut including my salary, but I am surviving and when all is said and done I will be better off for the cuts I made. ]]> Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:33:11 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2844&PID=18028&title=are-we-getting-our-monies-worth#18028