Middletown Forum : What is Missing from this Report? http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Council : What is Missing from this Report? Wed, 07 Oct 2026 06:17:24 +0000 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:41:19 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3084 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ What is Missing from this Report? : "What is Missing from this... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19749&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19749 Author: Richard Saunders
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 30 2010 at 4:41pm

"What is Missing from this Report?"

Most glaringly, the "why" and the "how" of the getting to the dire straits in which we find ourselves!

I believe that Mr. Joseph was going to tell us that during the pre-contract award purported "interview," just prior to his being "hushed up" by the city administration.  Perchance this would also explain CONSOC being awarded the contract despite being embarrassingly higher in price than two other very competent and able bidders. 
]]> Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:41:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19749&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19749 What is Missing from this Report? : no--I see your point--I just want... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19708&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19708 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 3:55pm

no--I see your point--I just want to pick a direction and go with it. Sometime you have to force the issue.
Abundant empty housing will take care of itself one way or another if you shift the expense back to the owners. They either rent them, sell them or walk away if the bank holds the majority of the value.
 
We are going to have cheap housing stock and depressed real estate values in the older core areas of the city--no way around it(actually we have been there for a long while).
 
Once again--I would like to see the overall expense shifted away from the un-involved taxpayer as much as possible for as long as possible. Empty houses cause less burden to social services, the schools and the police/fire dept. It probably wouldn't be worse than the mess we have currently.
 
Eventual demolition opens the door for newer improved business or residential opportunity.
If the town eventually comes back, these locations then have value.
If we continue to languish--it really won't matter either way.
 
I really like Mr.Adkins' conclusions and recommended direction.
I hope Council/Admin buys into this immediately and enthusiastically.
Doubtful--it might mean progress.
]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:55:14 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19708&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19708 What is Missing from this Report? : spiderjohn wrote:lrisner--as... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19705&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19705 Author: lrisner
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 2:41pm

Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

lrisner--as I mentioned, time to shift that responsibility(aka "the cost") back to these property owners who have used the Section 8 situation to their advantage. Granted--this is less than 50% of the target properties. If they go into foreclosure--so be it. Let the affected banks/lenders deal with their end. If the properties revert back to the city, then use the current grants to demo them instead of frill projects.
Tough love may be the only solution at this time.
 
No levy--no more taxpayer weight(yeah--right).
 
jmo



I think you missed my point. It is not about the condition of the houses, it is about the number of Houses. We simply have more Houses in Middletown than we have People who want to live here. We have to rid ourselves of some the Housing Stock. Rents are going down and that just puts more pressure on Landlords not to maintain them. We will never be able to Legislate nice Neighborhoods.

When the 2010 Census Data comes out you will see what I mean. I expect Middletown's Population to be at least 10% less than the 2000 Census.  The average House hold Income will take a huge nosedive.

I only brought up the Neighborhood Demo Levy idea as a counter to all the Section 8 Griping going on here. We are going to have a bad situation regardless of what we do. There is no Magic that will save us. We either have 2000 vacant Houses with 1600 Sec 8 or we have 3600 vacant Houses with no Sec 8. Either one is going to be bad. We go with the 3600 vacant Houses and make Paccy happy but then someone will be screaming that the City needs to deal with all vacant houses.

btw, the Banks/Lenders don't deal with the responsibility either. They let the Properties sit in Foreclosure Limbo so as NOT to have be Liable for maintenance or other things, i.e. Mowing. The Council just approved 75k just for that purpose.
]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:41:34 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19705&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19705 What is Missing from this Report? : Doug Adkins wrote: http://... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19701&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19701 Author: Hermes
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 11:05am

Originally posted by Doug Adkins Doug Adkins wrote:

http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/community/news.aspx     -  See Housing Reports for the full report.

Hermes - Yes it does.  Look at page 96 of the report.

 
Thanks Doug for that link & info. Being the pessimist that I am when it comes to politics I can't see the city giving up control to the state for allocations of fed dollars. At the same time I can see the 2010 census dipping below the 50,000 mark for the city,there is just nothing in the city for retaining citizens. As I stated prior,this will be a long hard battle IF council even gives it a real consideration. As for Middeltown being an active player in the metro area I don't see that at all. Yes we are developing the east side but that development so far hasn't produced enough results (still being new) to invite further residents & retain what we have left.
 
As for demolition of former section 8 houses I am mixed on that idea. If present landlords will retain the homes after the relocation of section 8 recipients then maybe a new program should be started to recruit new residents looking to rent. But thats a problem too with no jobs in the area. Good paying jobs,if available,are located in Dayton,Cincinnati,Sharonville,West Chester areas. So once again Middletown really has nothing to offer unless of course we can recruit industry back into the area. But that too would be a hard sell.
]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:05:28 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19701&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19701 What is Missing from this Report? : lrisner--as I mentioned, time... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19700&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19700 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 10:22am

lrisner--as I mentioned, time to shift that responsibility(aka "the cost") back to these property owners who have used the Section 8 situation to their advantage. Granted--this is less than 50% of the target properties. If they go into foreclosure--so be it. Let the affected banks/lenders deal with their end. If the properties revert back to the city, then use the current grants to demo them instead of frill projects.
Tough love may be the only solution at this time.
 
No levy--no more taxpayer weight(yeah--right).
 
jmo
]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:22:51 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19700&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19700 What is Missing from this Report? : I believe the number of vacant... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19699&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19699 Author: lrisner
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 9:44am

I believe the number of vacant Houses is going to be higher in the future and that is the Root Issue for me.

How do we deal with them? In my view they have to go. They will never be repaired or filled with Tenants. Just look at Rent Levels in Middletown. We are bargain, as far as Rent goes, yet still have many empty houses in almost every Neighborhood.

What would it cost to vacate a whole Neighborhood of the most degraded Homes? I think we have to bite the Bullet and make the investment to clear out a large number of these Houses or we continue as we have.

It is tough call. I'd bet it would cost $50mil to solve the Issue with one bold move. What Levy Millage would it take to pay for a 20 year Bond to do it? Would it ever have a chance to pass?

This is a very emotional Issue because there are no easy answers.




]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:44:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19699&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19699 What is Missing from this Report? : Can't thank you enough for... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19695&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19695 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 9:04am

Can't thank you enough for the time,effort, and primarily the content/conclusions of your report, Mr.Adkins.

Took gonads to publish your findings.
 
Pretty much backs up the consensus of most everyone in the community with the exception of the participating landlords and tenants. Can't fault any of them for using the opportunity. Now it is time to close that window of opportunity. We would be better off if the properties became vacant, shifting the responsibility back to the property owners to find suitable tenants who could care for the properties properly. Also shifting the costs back to where they belong and away from the taxpayer.
 
This community has stressed long enough and spent far too much time/$$ on this program.
 
The key element now missing is immediate Council/Admin approval and proper action.
 
jmo
]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:04:59 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19695&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19695 What is Missing from this Report? : http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/community/news.aspx... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19694&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19694 Author: Doug Adkins
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 8:59am

http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/community/news.aspx     -  See Housing Reports for the full report.

Hermes - Yes it does.  Look at page 96 of the report.

]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:59:15 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19694&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19694 What is Missing from this Report? : I get the feeling the section... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19693&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19693 Author: Hermes
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 8:40am

I get the feeling the section 8 talk will take place in "executive session" aka behind closed doors. And without a doubt this will be a very long drawn out ordeal,After the submission of Mr Adkins report you just know they will want a second and third opinion before any decision can be made.
 
How will the reduction of >1200 vouchers affect federal money the city has been getting ? Does population play a roll in these federal dollars ? I think we are going to see a lot of double talk on this issue.]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:40:46 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19693&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19693 What is Missing from this Report? : Increased vouchers to fill the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19687&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19687 Author: VietVet
Subject: 3084
Posted: Jun 29 2010 at 7:22am

Increased vouchers to fill the vacant houses? That's a new one isn't it? Don't remember hearing that before. I agree, let's get this thing down to 700 or so as Pac has been professing for a long time now. 445 still won't bring us close to what we should have. Wonder how the folks in the city building will react to the talk of reduction when they know their landlord buddies might take a hit if this happens? Surely promises have been made by some of the friends of the landlords in the city leader arena to keep that Section 8 program money coming their way, right? Perhaps some "kickback" money for supplying them with the renters? Think Mr. Adkins will "take a hit" from Gilleland's crew when he brings this reduction thing up and "puts them on the spot"? Not to worry. They will table the meeting with a "no decision" tonight and it will all fade away over time, never to be discussed again. ]]> Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:22:40 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3084&PID=19687&title=what-is-missing-from-this-report#19687