Middletown Forum : Nelson & Associates http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : Community Revitalization : Nelson & Associates Tue, 06 Oct 2026 19:26:22 +0000 Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:20:55 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3315 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Nelson & Associates : I also understand they have used... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22407&title=nelson-associates#22407 Author: angelababy
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:20pm

I also understand they have used TIG in the past for inspections.  This is an item that is 6-7 months down the road I am sure we will have the details over the next few months.  I wouldn't lose any sleep over it until the 1st of the new year anyways. ]]> Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:20:55 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22407&title=nelson-associates#22407 Nelson & Associates : Vivian Moon wrote:Bobbie this... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22106&title=nelson-associates#22106 Author: Pacman
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 7:10pm

Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Bobbie this could become a total nighmare because this program needs to be a seamless transfer of a huge amount of information.
Are these system programs already in use by Nelson & Nelson?
Does Nelson & Nelson have the personel on staff to handle the transfer this amount of information? It is my understanding that Nelson & Nelson has even fewer employees than CONSOC.
Yes I also believe that the City set CONSOC up for failure...
 
Vivian you are over doing it again.
 
Lets say that Consoc reached the end of its contract and they re-bid it again and they lost and Nelson & Associates or any other company for that matter gets the contract to manage Middletown's Section 8 program.
By your assumption above the transfer can not be made because there is to much info and it is just impossible for anyone other than Consoc to do the job.  Come on, lets be a little more realistic here.  PHA managers change regularly and they are not the disasters you claim.  Could there be bumps in the road sure but the change over can occur and will.  Now what is the difference if Consoc is terminated or they lose the contract to another management company?
 
Nelson & Associates is a Cincinnati based company and has 20 employees.  They manage property from Florida to Cleveland.  They have been in business since 1987.
 
Was Consoc setup to fail, the fact you state that is your own personal opinion and personally I don't think that Consoc was prepared to work for a gentleman such as Mr. Adkins who strikes me as a person who basically sets the ground rules and expects them to be followed.
 
Also I am in no way related to any of these companies and I don't care who runs the program, but I do believe it is time for Consoc to go and the sooner the better and they should have never been given the contract in the first place.
 
And for Nelson.....Himself this is a copy of the Landlord file that I received in Feb. 2009 from Consoc and I was in error instead of 500 pages it is 595 pages basically listing one landlord per page, as according to Consoc that is all they had.  Long way from the Excel files you say was available in 2007-2008, or maybe the citizens are just special and get the easy file to work with, all 595 pages.  It sure discourages you from printing it out.
 
http://www.4shared.com/document/h3z-2J93/SECTION_8_Landlords.html

 
 
]]> Sat, 09 Oct 2010 19:10:57 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22106&title=nelson-associates#22106 Nelson & Associates : What will the city do next if... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22102&title=nelson-associates#22102 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 1:30pm

What will the city do next if this company does not produce to their standards.  I personally feel that not all of the blame is Consoc.  I think that the city management set Consoc up for failure on this contract as it was very evident that city mangement did not want them in there....Bobbie
 
Bobbie this could become a total nighmare because this program needs to be a seamless transfer of a huge amount of information.
Are these system programs already in use by Nelson & Nelson?
Does Nelson & Nelson have the personel on staff to handle the transfer this amount of information? It is my understanding that Nelson & Nelson has even fewer employees than CONSOC.
Yes I also believe that the City set CONSOC up for failure...
]]> Sat, 09 Oct 2010 13:30:46 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22102&title=nelson-associates#22102 Nelson & Associates : PacmanJust for the record…I... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22101&title=nelson-associates#22101 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 1:09pm

Pacman
Just for the record…I received the April-May communications between the City and CONSOC and they are an interesting read.
However….I have more questions now than I had before.
I can’t wait to hear TIG’s side of this story at the next meeting.
  

]]> Sat, 09 Oct 2010 13:09:13 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=22101&title=nelson-associates#22101 Nelson & Associates : Vivian Moon wrote: Wasteful... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21863&title=nelson-associates#21863 Author: Pacman
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 12:58pm

Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

 
Wasteful
    Yes however we still do not know what type od inspections Mr. Adkins will require...guess we will need to wait and see.
    The problem with the Parma plan is that the areas around us DO NOT want our Section 8 problem .
 
Why is the type of Inspection that Mr. Adkins would require important to the overall issue of reducing the number of Section 8 Voucher holders living in Middletown, as long at it meets or exceeds HUD's Specs?
 
Also, I would hope that Middletown would open the area that the Voucher Holders would be able to live in to include Butler and Warren County, if they can.  It is not up to an area or city government whether they want to accept Section 8 Vouchers.  It is up to the owner of the house/Apt. whether they want to rent to a Section 8 Voucher Holder and can meet HUD's Specs..
]]> Sat, 02 Oct 2010 12:58:48 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21863&title=nelson-associates#21863 Nelson & Associates : Didn't Adkins say after... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21851&title=nelson-associates#21851 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 3:51pm

Didn't Adkins say after reading the HUD response that he would have to make some changes.  One of those changes having to do with the Lead Based Paint Inspection.
 
Wasteful
    Yes however we still do not know what type od inspections Mr. Adkins will require...guess we will need to wait and see.
    The problem with the Parma plan is that the areas around us DO NOT want our Section 8 problem .
]]> Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:51:23 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21851&title=nelson-associates#21851 Nelson & Associates : Vivian, Didn't Adkins... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21845&title=nelson-associates#21845 Author: wasteful
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 9:17am

Vivian,
 
Didn't Adkins say after reading the HUD response that he would have to make some changes.  One of those changes having to do with the Lead Based Paint Inspection.
 
"if we operated our program similar to the Parma program, we would keep all vouchers active, provide service to over 1600 low income families, be compliant with HUD program requirements, retain administrative income from the vouchers, execute the Master Plan objectives, and still achieve the reduction of vouchers within the City that we seek."
 
Just sticking in my two cents worth here.
]]> Fri, 01 Oct 2010 09:17:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21845&title=nelson-associates#21845 Nelson & Associates : I believe HUD is on board as... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21840&title=nelson-associates#21840 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 3315
Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 4:54am

I believe HUD is on board as long as it its within their guidelines.  Seems that Parma got the system to work for them.  It may have to be tweaked here and there, but that is just part of dealing with any Government Agency, especially one like HUD...Pacman
 

SECTION 8 ANALYSIS REPORT: HUD's next point was that if we operated our program similar to the Parma program, we would keep all vouchers active, provide service to over 1600 low income families, be compliant with HUD program requirements, retain administrative income from the vouchers, execute the Master Plan objectives, and still achieve the reduction of vouchers within the City that we seek. Parma has 57 active vouchers within the City limits for 80,000 residents. HUD stated that until we utilize the regulations to reduce vouchers being used within the City, they would not seriously consider a reduction in voucher levels. Said another way, HUD stated that we must "help ourselves with all of the regulatory tools available, and then if you still have problems, come talk to us again. "

HUD RESPONSE: HUD's discussion about Parma operating within a larger jurisdiction with the ability of its participants to lease throughout the County was not in the context of HUD agreeing that Middletown should seek to reduce voucher holders, but rather that poverty deconcentration might be furthered by broadening jurisdiction and choice. In addition, statements in the report seem to indicate that Parma is typical of city programs and is one of the only other city programs in the nation. Parma is not typical -it was created by a federal desegregation court order. Many hundreds of municipal housing agencies are in operation across the nation. Michigan, for example, is one state with predominantly municipal housing agencies, and most vouchers are used within the City's boundaries.

]]> Fri, 01 Oct 2010 04:54:27 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21840&title=nelson-associates#21840 Nelson & Associates : Vivian why would HUD have anything... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21836&title=nelson-associates#21836 Author: Pacman
Subject: 3315
Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 8:57pm

Vivian why would HUD have anything to say over the City terminating its contract with CONSOC? 
Pacman
I don’t believe we have been given all the facts concerning the termination of CONSOC.
At the last meeting Mr. Adkins kept referring to April communications between the City and CONSOC. The next day I requested copies of these letters and or emails and as of this date I have not received them.
I have not seen the contract between the City and CONSOC however I will tell you that CONSOC can only act upon items that have been approved by City Council and HUD which is what Mrs. Joseph stated at the last meeting. (they are currently working under the OLD HUD plan).  
I personally think that the real problem is TIG. I still don’t understand how they can blame CONSOC for the “No Show” problem and cost over runs since TIG hasn’t performed since the day they hired them...and I’m still not understanding the bad address problem ????
 
Vivian,
So Far CONSOC has not been terminated.  Their termination if it comes will be guided by the contract they signed and if it has a "Convenience Clause" I would think they have little recourse. 

"The Termination for Convenience clause grants the Government contracting officer an extremely broad right to terminate the contractor's performance without the Government being liable for breach-of-contract damages. The clause generally limits the contractor's recovery to cost incurred plus profit on work completed, and the costs of preparing the termination settlement proposal. The clause thereby precludes the contractor from recovering anticipatory profit."

I don't see what TIG has to do with a contract between CONSOC and the City.  Just as I am sure the City has a contract with TIG.  If TIG is not performing I am sure they will get the boot also.  I understand that TIG has hired a local inspector to work Middletown exclusively.

The administrative contract is between the City and CONSOC, not HUD and CONSOC.
We will see…I believe CONSOC may have a law suite against the City and I believe HUD will back CONSOC. 

If they are terminated using the "Convenience Clause" in the contract I would hope it spells out exactly what is expected of each party and any recourse that is possible.  I again quote the above:

"The Termination for Convenience clause grants the Government contracting officer an extremely broad right to terminate the contractor's performance without the Government being liable for breach-of-contract damages. The clause generally limits the contractor's recovery to cost incurred plus profit on work completed, and the costs of preparing the termination settlement proposal. The clause thereby precludes the contractor from recovering anticipatory profit."
 
Once again the contract is between the City and CONSOC.  It should not matter to HUD who runs the program, as long as they are HUD certified.

 
Since you now feel that the whole Section 8 mess should be turned over to Butler County, why are you so concerned about CONSOC.  Butler County has had it's own issues in the past. I haven't looked at them lately
I believe that some changes may have been needed at CONSOC however now I believe we are throwing out the baby, bathwater and the tub. Just because we change vendors does not mean we will have a better program…I still believe that HUD may step in and take over this entire program.

No you are right but I get the distinct impression that the City and those that have to work with CONSOC have had enough.  Why would HUD take over a program that is being run by a HUD certified administrator whether it be CONSOC, Nelson & Associates or anyone else as long as the City is playing by HUD's rules?

Also you have the fact that HUD is basically refusing to move the Vouchers out of Middletown. 
And this is the fact that Nelson and I have been trying to tell you over the past several months every time they stood before City Council and said HUD was on board with THE NEW PLAN and they were going to reduce the vouchers.

I believe HUD is on board as long as it its within their guidelines.  Seems that Parma got the system to work for them.  It may have to be tweaked here and there, but that is just part of dealing with any Government Agency, especially one like HUD.
 

I personally think, and this is my own opinion from my observations over the last 7 years, that it is time for CONSOC to go.

 

1)  Consoc has been mixed up with the City Officials that were behind the run up of the vouchers.
It was the City that requested the increase in Vouchers.

 
Yes and Consoc went right along with it raising no red flags. 

2)  Consoc has been flying under the radar in Middletown for most of the last 7 years surfacing at Council meetings here and there to protect its turf and $$$$$.  There has been little scrutiny of CONSOC except for the last 2 years.
All HUD programs are to be operated under the radar of the public eye because they are popular with tax payers. HUD does not want to see its name in the paper for any reason.
Middletown is not winning in points with HUD keeping this issue on the front page.

 
I just did a search for news articles concerning HUD Section 8, 21000 articles came up the first 35 pages were all in the month of Sept. 2010 I stopped looking after that.  If that is their idea of operating under the radar they are a massive failure.  I don't think it is a points contest between HUD and the City.  On the Cities part it is about doing what is best for th city overall, which HUD could care less about.

 

3)  The Middletown Housing Authority did not meet publicly until the last year.  So for what 15 or so years Consoc has been under the radar most of the time.

So you are saying that CONSOC ran the program without any leadership from Mr. Kohler 
and HUD never once called the City on the carpet…Hmmm
I don’t believe it was CONSOC that has been hiding the facts and the numbers…I believe that was City Hall.

I think Consoc may have had little supervision over the that time frame yes.  The City may have been hiding the facts but CONSOC played right along with them in that matter.

4)  My observation of Mr. Adkins is that he is a "cross your T's and dot you I's" type of administrate and Consoc is not fitting in with that type of Leadership.

 

5)  Consoc is to use to doing their own thing when it comes to the Management of the Section 8 program and the new Admin is stifling their operation, the way they want to do it.

 

6)  Their bid for the Contract came in at about $200K higher than anyone else.  Now this was brought up by a few people when it happened and not much was said about it.  But you guys on here are hollering and screaming when the city buys a home and spends $20K to rehab it and then we have the Council hiring a group that is $200k higher than anyone else and that is fine.   I don't get that one.

Ahh yes the $200,000…I believe that at the next housing meeting you will find that TIG is way over the projected budget because of the “No Shows”. When the City gets the new vender this money will disappear into the dark hole of City Hall never to be seen again.

 
TIG may be over budget, this has little to do with the CONSOC contract.  Are you saying that the City, Consoc and TIG are all governed under one contract?  If so that is news to me.

I think it is time for Consoc to move on and for the City to move ahead with a new company administering the program under Mr. Adkin's watchful eye

I'll stick by my above statement time for Consoc to go.

]]> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:57:26 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21836&title=nelson-associates#21836 Nelson & Associates : Ah, Mtown at least we have some... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21834&title=nelson-associates#21834 Author: Pacman
Subject: 3315
Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 7:54pm

Ah, Mtown at least we have some opinion's, whether you agree with them or not, unlike you, who seems to like to just come around and try and cause problems and has no opinion.]]> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:54:24 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3315&PID=21834&title=nelson-associates#21834