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  <pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2026 07:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :  No, I don&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t pretend to be...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24631&amp;title=do-the-math#24631</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=101">Mike_Presta</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;06&nbsp;2011 at 8:08pm<br /><br /><SPAN lang=EN><P>No, I don’t pretend to be anything. I am what I am: A retired individual with over thirty years experience in heavy industrial engineering and construction.</P><P>During my career, I was involved in many demolition, modernization and expansion projects that involved remediation.</P><P>All of that aside, use your head for something besides a hat rack!!!</P><P>Since you now claim that you were aware that the soil samplings confirmed exceedences of Direct Contact and/or Leaching Standards for benzo(a) pyrene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and naphthalene in the soil, why on earth aren’t you concerned that City Hall seems to be planning to <B><I>SEAL</B></I> the contaminated area with those nasty contaminants on our <B><I>DRINKING WATER WELL FIELD SIDE???</B></I> </P><P>Now, are there any of my SPECIFIC, enumerated points from my 8:07 am post above that you are claiming that an environmental engineer will state as being technically incorrect??? If so, please specifically address them and I will respond!!!</P><P>If not, why bring it up???</P></SPAN>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math : I&amp;#039;m not an environmental...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24626&amp;title=do-the-math#24626</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=128">swohio75</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;06&nbsp;2011 at 11:37am<br /><br />I'm not an environmental engineer, nor am going to pretend to be.&nbsp; Are you?&nbsp; <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I was correcting your comment about "plans for some sort of lagoon on the site."&nbsp; which made it sound like they were planning on adding a lagoon as part of the&nbsp;clean up efforts.&nbsp; Which is not the case.&nbsp; &nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I took my information about the former lagoons on what Denise said and from the grant proposal:</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><a href="http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/corg/corf_summary_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/corg/corf_summary_final.pdf</A></DIV><DIV><FONT size=3><EM></EM></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT size=3><EM>The first known industrial or commercial use of the Property was by the Sutphin Wrenn Union Paper Mill, which began industrial operations at the Property in the early 1850s. The Property subsequently operated as a paper mill until the late 1970s. Manufacturing operations at the paper mill included the production of print, news and blotting papers and associated usage and storage of chemicals and fuels. The mill utilized a "Tail Race" connected to the Hydraulic Canal to supply water and energy. Also, two wastewater lagoons were located on the Property</EM>. </FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT size=3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><FONT size=3><FONT size=3><P><EM>Ohio Voluntary Action Program (VAP) Phase I and Phase II Property Assessments conducted at the site have quantified environmental concerns from the Property‟s historical use, and confirmed with environmental sampling that a release of hazardous substances and petroleum has occurred in soil and groundwater at levels above applicable cleanup standards. Identified Areas included the former paper mill operations, former lagoons, a transformer, former oil warehouse and adjacent (off-property) hydraulic canal. Sampling conducted in these areas confirmed exceedences of Direct Contact and/or Leaching Standards for benzo(a) pyrene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and naphthalene in soil and exceedences of the Unrestricted Potable Use Standard for arsenic in groundwater. In addition, asbestos was determined to be located in the buildings.</EM> </P></FONT></DIV></FONT>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math : To paraphrase Mr. Dead Man Walkin&amp;#039;:...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24625&amp;title=do-the-math#24625</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=101">Mike_Presta</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;06&nbsp;2011 at 8:19am<br /><br />To paraphrase Mr. Dead Man Walkin': <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>"The Lord is my soils consultant, I <EM><strong><FONT color=#0000ff>shale</FONT></strong></EM> not want." <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="LOL" />&nbsp;<img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="LOL" />&nbsp;<img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="LOL" /></DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 08:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :   swohio75 wrote:That&amp;#039;s...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24624&amp;title=do-the-math#24624</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=101">Mike_Presta</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;06&nbsp;2011 at 8:07am<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by swohio75" alt="Originally posted by swohio75" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>swohio75 wrote:</strong><br /><br />That's not what I heard. I heard that one of the pieces of the project that will still need to be bid out is the clay capping of the lagoons. <BR><BR>Meaning, the lagoons currently exist--likely used in the past for the discharge of waste--that will need to be remediated. <BR></td></tr></table> <SPAN lang=EN><P>SWOhio:</P><P>I couldn’t sleep for thinking about this!!!</P><P>You believe that there are existing lagoons that have been used for the discharge of industrial waste???</P><P>And that this is a type of waste that needs to be remediated to “protect well fields”???</P><P>And that, at some point, the former lagoons area (or are you saying the lagoons themselves?) will be capped with clay???</P><P>These scenarios cry for relief on so many levels!!!</P><P>First, “capping a lagoon” defies logic. Capping a contaminated lagoon doubly defies logic (and this is certainly a case where two “wrongs” do NOT make a “right”). Capping a contaminated lagoon over a well field??? STRIKE THREE!!!</P><P>Think about a few things:</P><P>1. Before you could “cap” the lagoon, you would have to drain it.</P><P>2. You would NOT want to “cap” the contaminated soils at the bottom of lagoon with clay (or with anything else) because this would simply SEAL the contaminants under the cap!!! (The contaminants would be on the “WRONG” side of the “cap”, forcing them to eventually leach right into our DRINKING WATER AQUIFER!!! Clue: This would be a BAD thing!!!)</P><P>3. Even if you first REMOVE the contaminants (you would have to pay to haul them to a pit, sort of like a dry lagoon, that someone else had first excavated and LINED with clay) and then sealed the lagoon with clay, you would end up with a DEEPER LAGOON.</P><P>4. Even if, after draining the lagoon and removing all contaminated soils (which would then leave no reason for a clay “cap” unless you wanted a clay “liner” for the new, deeper lagoon, you felt the need to fill the entire excavated area/former lagoon, doing so with clay, or a clay/soil mixture, would only ruin the site for future commercial development, except for something like, oh, say a BARK PARK!!! Clay and clayey soils swell/shrink with moisture content and demand expensive remediation to be made suitable for commercial building.</P><P>So, the more that I think about it, that is probably EXACTLY what those scoundrels at City Hall have in mind: RUINING the site for future commercial development.</P><P>But wasn’t that what I said in my very first post on this subject???</P></SPAN>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 08:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math : Perhaps the City Law Director...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24621&amp;title=do-the-math#24621</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=101">Mike_Presta</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;06&nbsp;2011 at 4:29am<br /><br />Perhaps the City Law Director should spend more time doing his job (i. e.: writing and reviewing the language of the Resolutions that he presents to City Council for passage) and less time conniving with Marty to thwart legitimate business people from pursuing legal enterprises on their own private property.]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 04:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :   Richard Saunders wrote:Isn&amp;#039;t...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24617&amp;title=do-the-math#24617</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=128">swohio75</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;05&nbsp;2011 at 11:34pm<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Richard Saunders" alt="Originally posted by Richard Saunders" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Richard Saunders wrote:</strong><br /><br /><p>Isn't the Wellfield Protection Fund funded, at least partially, by fees added to our water bills? </p><br /><div>If so, why is that money going to the Employees' Benefits Fund? </div></td></tr></table> <br /><br />It's not.  There was a typographical error in the resolution, and Council was given a revised first reading copy.  My guess is that in the next council workbook made available at the City's web site, the second reading version of the resolution will be correct. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :   Sappy wrote:Mike I checked...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24616&amp;title=do-the-math#24616</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=128">swohio75</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;05&nbsp;2011 at 11:32pm<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Sappy" alt="Originally posted by Sappy" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Sappy wrote:</strong><br /><br />Mike<br />I checked the resolution you are referring to on the City website, my bet is a drafting error my the Les Landon.</td></tr></table> <br /><br />As he indicated as the resolution was presented.  Council had a new draft of the first reading with the correction.  The wrong Fund was listed in the "bold total area."  If you look at the Workbook,you will see that area is where the reference to the Employee Benefit Fund is found.  ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :   Mike_Presta wrote:We heard...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24615&amp;title=do-the-math#24615</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=128">swohio75</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;05&nbsp;2011 at 11:28pm<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Mike_Presta" alt="Originally posted by Mike_Presta" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Mike_Presta wrote:</strong><br /><br />We heard tonight that there are apparently plans for some sort of "lagoon" on this site!!!   Sounds like this will make for a beautiful amenity for a GREEN SPACE, but certainly will diminish the site's usefulness as an industrial/commercial development opportunity!!!</div><br /><div> </div><br /><div>And of course once this becomes a "wetlands", it will take an act of God to ever develop it.  This sounds like another one of Marty's "wants" to preserve the gateway to South Main street!!!</div></td></tr></table> <br /><br />That's not what I heard.  I heard that one of the pieces of the project that will still need to be bid out is the clay capping of the lagoons.<br /><br />Meaning, the lagoons currently exist--likely used in the past for the discharge of waste--that will need to be remediated.  <br /><br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math :   Vivian Moon wrote:]Then Mr....</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24614&amp;title=do-the-math#24614</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=128">swohio75</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;05&nbsp;2011 at 11:04pm<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Vivian Moon" alt="Originally posted by Vivian Moon" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Vivian Moon wrote:</strong><br /><br />&#093;Then Mr. Robinett took the floor and stated…We reeeeally are not going to spend this money….we plan to get a grant to cover our share of this project and replace these funds.</td></tr></table> <br /><br />That's not what Mr. Robinette said.  What he said was, they anticipate recovering any local costs from companies that have been identified as contributors to the environmental issues and any reimbursement they are able to obtain would go back into the Wellfield fund.  <br /><br />And while he didn't specify companies, Mead Paper at one time owned and operated the plant. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>Do the math : A lagoon, you say? Perhaps another...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3566&amp;PID=24601&amp;title=do-the-math#24601</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3566<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;05&nbsp;2011 at 10:50am<br /><br />A lagoon, you say? Perhaps another attempt to establish a spin off of Lake Middletown?  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" />  Could we have another cluster like the LM project where the city was fined by the Army Corps Of Engineers for removing a levy and releasing silt into the river? The fine was around $350,000 or so of the people's money that was wasted. Is the city going to try to dig a hole in the earth without screwing it up this time?  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> Wonder what the fine will be this time when they manage to mess this project up?  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> Will there be a doggie park around this lagoon for the South Main upper crust to walk their critters? They are a comical self righteous bunch aren't they.  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
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