Middletown Forum : AJ v. the entire city council http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : News Stories : AJ v. the entire city council Mon, 05 Oct 2026 16:36:00 +0000 Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:10:20 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3613 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ AJ v. the entire city council : GentlemenI believe it would be... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25075&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25075 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 9:10pm

Gentlemen
I believe it would be wise to first start a petition for the Gas Tax so we can start repairing the streets in Middletown. This would be a sure winner at the polls in all four wards.



]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:10:20 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25075&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25075 AJ v. the entire city council : Spider, I agree that no regulars... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25068&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25068 Author: randy
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 3:57pm

Spider, I agree that no regulars where no shows at the meeting. I know that guys like yourself, Mike, Paul and Vet have made many attempts to speak out at a council meeting. My point is and will continue to be that it is not enough voices to matter.
 
The comment was made that a 3 minute appearance at council would make no difference and change nothing. I disagree with that. If 30 or more people showed up and spoke for 3 minutes thats 90 minutes of comments. The message would need to be the same from all, change the way things are going replace those that are holding us back or our next step is to do it ourselves by way of petitions or legal actions.
 
Today our city leaders do not fear us, and that in my opinion is because we never show up in numbers. and until we have done that no one can say it will have no affect!! Because the truth is we don't know, it has never happened.
 
If we cant get people to show up at a meeting to speak out, and again I know you and the others have, I have too!! Four of us are not enough, so if we cant get people to show up in numbers what makes anyone think we could ever pull off a recall or any sort of legal action.
 
Maybe I am wrong, it has happened once or twice in my life. Maybe showing up in numbers will change nothing. But we need to start someplace, were do you suggest that starting point is. I would love to hear your thoughts as well as Mike and Paul's. what do we do??
 
 
Spider, I do know the price you have paid for being a regular member of this site and for speaking out against the city leaders. We have made it easy on the city leaders to focus on the three or four people that do speak out, much harder to focus an a larger number of people.
 
Mike, I think you misunderstood what I said in my first post or I wasn't clear in my though process. The people on this forum do know about the illegal activities of our city admin. I was talking about those that do not read this forum or pay attention to council meetings. How would they know about any of these things going on? The journal isn't reporting it, It is time to reach beyond this forum and make people aware of what is going on.
 
 
]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 15:57:59 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25068&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25068 AJ v. the entire city council : Almost perfect post by acclaro If... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25064&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25064 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 2:23pm

Almost perfect post by acclaro

If you really want to go after Admin or Council and get their attentiom, you have to punch them somewhere where it actually causes pain. Meaningful litigation definitely works. Actual re-call or legislative petitioning works. Finding electable candidates(like AJ, Josh and Anita) works. A constant barrage of facts, figs and attention-grabbing issues at committee meetings, community forums and public meetings can work IF you follow through with proper action and regularity.
 
Talking, blogging or hollow threatening obviously doesn't work.
A few meeting to simply gripe or discuss issues doesn't work.
Non-focused in-direct rambling during Citizens' Comments doesn't work.
 
AJ vs. Council?
I really don't think that exists in the way many of you think.
I think that with one or two exceptions, he is accepted by the others now.
This last incident only seems to matter to his strongest long-term detractors.
We have survived much worse from sitting Commission members in the past without resignations, or even requests for resignations. Apologies are not really the answer to anything. Usually they are forced and in-sincere. They seldom repair any situation.
 
As for this forum being embarrassed by no-shows at the last Council meeting?
Of the regulars that I know here, none at any time stated that they would attend the meeting to seek a resignation. That threat came from newcomers who obviously can't walk the talk.
I have blogged here regularly for 3+ years and have accomplished nothing other than to alienate myself from those in the golden bunker. Totally wasted my time and everyone's time reading me.
 
Like most others here, I do what I can in the manner that I choose.
I have been involved for decades in many ways--same for so many others who make my efforts pale in comparison.
 
You want to take on Council/Admin and change OUR city's direction?
Legal challenge and through the ballot box.
Organize with the right electable people, or have a good court case and a very serious expert attorney.Can be done easily and effectively.
People from all areas of the city are waiting to climb on board of something in which they can believe and has constructive substance.
 
You can "out" people, compose clever rhymes,anonymously empty-threat all that you like.
A waste of your time.
Maybe there is something to using your real name after all.
 
jmo
]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:23:24 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25064&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25064 AJ v. the entire city council : Acclaro, You couldn't be... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25062&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25062 Author: Paul Nagy
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 9:23am

Acclaro,
        You couldn't be more right.
        Paul Nagy
]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:23:05 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25062&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25062 AJ v. the entire city council : Mike, the remedy for severe criminal... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25061&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25061 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 9:10am

Mike, the remedy for severe criminal malfeasance is Attorney General involvement and formal complaint. I have read many allegations, but limited fact. Granted, sudden change to ordinances and such constitute incompetence and allegations of bias, but the degree of criminal misdoings has not been substantiated from anything I have read. If so, the AG should be involved. It is certainly easy to challenge anything the city does in court, including ordinances. Why is this not being done? As for gas fund misappropriation and other allegations I have read routinely, has a complaint been filed? That's the appropriate remedy, but serious violations of trust have multiple means of being addressed, and through confidential avenues or public.

The apathy lies in getting votes which correspond to the views that exemplify the majority of the dissenters whom think problems exist in Middletown. Organization and structure is paramount, but such effort has not been attempted. Having a few meetings doesn't get this moving forward, but money, organization, does. No one actually believes the majority of residents are happy with the direction of the city, nor its chess moves. The key is to get more voters out supporting the fact status quo has destroyed Middletown, and more importantly, the most important asset a resident has---their property.

Standing twice a month for a 3 minute elevator pitch will accomplish nothing at city meetings. They have a deaf ear, why bother. Every council member has had an opportunity to rescind and put in place, dedicated funds for street and infrastructure, a rather "no brainer", right? Yet, no one has done that to date.

Turning to Smith. You are correct on the other allegations as allegations. The difference is Smith has shown a pattern of championing himself, not te city. That may be true of the others. City council members get paid little, and don't direct the city. They come in, nod their heads, and pass what the city wants. Few study issues in detail and proacactively have plans or suggestions for alternatives. They are reactors, not proactors. Its the nature of the job, when you have another job, come in for 3-4 hrs twice a month, and have a family and other pressing matters.  If Mr. Becker or Mr. Allen, or any council member had the chronic pattern of behavior as Smith, there would be just as strong a reaction as has been focused on Smith.

Take a lesson in how to deal with city hall from Lenny Robinson. When wronged, be willing to pull the trigger and litigate. Waiting for a new batch of leaders or the "next election" gets you no where. Ordinances being broken, laws broken? Pull the trigger or report it to the proper investigative authorities. 3 minutes of fame on TVMiddletown twice a month accomplishes nothing, notta, 0.          ]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:10:07 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25061&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25061 AJ v. the entire city council : Vet, The kangaroo court is a... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25059&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25059 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 7:36am

Vet,
The kangaroo court is a new issue.  I know that if they came after me, I would appeal (to a REAL court) in a heartbeat, and counter-sue to boot. 
I haven't talked to anyone about this issue yet.
]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:36:58 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25059&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25059 AJ v. the entire city council : Vet, my friend, You have touched... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25058&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25058 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 7:09am

Vet, my friend,

You have touched on many issues.

I will try to address them.

First, it is my OPINION, that to try to do all of those many recalls and referendums at once would be too confusing and would result in:

1. Uninformed folks feeling that they were being snowballed and refusing to sign any of them.

2. Confusion and errors resulting in many of the petition forms being rejected on technicalities.

The Safety levy expires in just over a year (if memory serves). It would be nearly ready to expire by the time we got the petitions signed, validated, and a referendum scheduled. I’d suggest letting it die a natural death.

I’ve discussed many of the illegal activities with various officials in Columbus. While they seem to agree that there are illegalities, they advise to file suit in Common Pleas Court. This is expensive. Besides, the case might be assigned to Judge (and ex-councilman) Powers!!! Shocked

I’d be pleased to discuss all of this further by phone or in person, as the details are too involved to type out…and I’m too crummy of a typist!!! LOL LOL LOL

]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:09:02 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25058&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25058 AJ v. the entire city council : Mike, I agree with you about... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25056&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25056 Author: Paul Nagy
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 7:02am

Mike,
       I agree with you about the illegal activities of council and the administration (including the law director and the planning director). They really have caused severe ruin for our city and are taking the city into a non-productive, non-business, non-jobless direction for the future. They continue to misdirect milions of taxpayers dollars for special (downtown) interests. Until the citizens will get serious they choose by their lack of action to be willing to pay the price for their apathy. You and I have spoken out and appeared before council on numerous occassions thru the years only to watch them repeatedly ignore everyone for their special interests. 
        As for Aj, I think he has proven he shouldn't be on council and a majority agree but won't do  anything about it. I would like to see him have the humility to resign. I wish him well in any new endeavor but he shouldn't be on council.
        Randy, MiddletownUSA is the only voice for democracy in Middletown and it is a shame that people abuse it the way they do. When they abuse it they cause a lot of us to quit discussing the issues that are so vital to the city's success. They should stick to the issues. Sometimes the issues are certain city players but shouldn't be the bloggers. I appreciate you and MiddletownUSA.
        Mike is indispensible to giving us the facts and keeping us on track. I just don't understand why he doesn't like my singing.
        Paul Nagy
 
]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:02:20 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25056&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25056 AJ v. the entire city council : In all fairness, Randy, there... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25055&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25055 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 6:55am

In all fairness, Randy, there is no reason for readers of MiddletownUSA not to “know these things are happening.” That is, unless they are too lazy to read, or simply refuse to believe the obvious. At least for what I post, I back up with news stories, meeting minutes, quotes from the City Manager’s newletters, Ohio Revised Code sections, Middletown Codified Ordinance numbers, excerpts from the council workbooks and the like. I also normally cite the sources, and try to remember to urge the readers NOT to trust me, but to verify the information from those sources for themselves.

When I say that I will be at a meeting, I very nearly always show up. I have attended dozens of City Council meetings (and spoken at most), as well as most “conversations with council” (and the like), community forums, small organizational meetings, city finance committee and road committee meetings. You name it, if I thought it had a shot of making a difference, I tried to attend and usually made it. Every City Council meeting that I did not attend I watched at least once on replays. I have even filed law suits against the city at my own expense on behalf of the citizens!!!

I also defend (and promote) this site more than you know, as Mr. Nagy has done in my presence.

But I am getting old and tired.

Thank you for your kind words in your first sentence though.

And I still like ya!!! Hug

]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 06:55:42 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25055&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25055 AJ v. the entire city council : I certainly agree on the major... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25054&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25054 Author: VietVet
Subject: 3613
Posted: Jan 20 2011 at 6:36am

I certainly agree on the major problem of apathy on this site and in this town.

So....we can start by trying once again to go to Hamilton, talking to the people there about our intentions to recall elected city officials (council and school board would be smart since we would be going to the doors of the registered voters in all sections of the city) I will find time between working and caregiving to walk to the addresses on the list of registered voters in Ward 3 to solicit recall signatures. How about some folks who live in Wards 1, 2 and 4? Would any of you volunteer to walk with the lists in your respective areas.

I would think that if we ever got to this point of walking the town for recall purposes, it wouldn't take anytime at all for the word to get out at city hall and to the people who think we are "nut case conspiracy" people as Randy states. I would think that if they saw action with this severity, we would reverse their perception of us immediately. Yes....no????? The truth is, right now, we are all talk and no action to this point. JMO

I would suggest in addition to recall signatures for council and school board, that we also include the city income tax recall to reduce it from the current 1.75% back to 1.50% or lower. Probably get some eager responses for that. How about returning the street repair money back to that fund and out of the General Fund, where it has been since the 80's? Might as well cover as many recalls as possible while walking the city. Anyone think of some other recall items? Anyone want to do this at all? Still need someone to go the Hamilton and talk to McGary before she retires for proper forms, instructions and the lists of registered voters for Middletown. Needs to be done Mon-Fri from 8 to 4PM I would imagine. Most of us are working during that time. Again, anyone have the time to make the trip and get us started? Need to meet to distribute the signature forms after that. This is second time we have talked about doing this. Do we do it this time, or do we keep talking about it? I can't go (unless its the weekend- not open then are they?). He--, I'll buy the tank of gas to get there and back to start this thing. Perhaps a phone call before going down there, telling them of our intentions would be prudent.

As to these allegations of lawbreaking by city officials. Where would one send this information to inquire about a possible investigation from an outside source? The Ohio Attorney General perhaps? Someone else in Columbus? How do we go about getting a team of people here to examine any legal wrongdoing by the city? Now THAT would get their attention, ]]> Thu, 20 Jan 2011 06:36:16 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613&PID=25054&title=aj-v-the-entire-city-council#25054