Middletown Forum : Resident's question http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Council : Resident's question Mon, 05 Oct 2026 18:16:44 +0000 Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:26:10 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3768 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Resident's question : From the recent newspaper article: “Becker... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26488&title=residents-question#26488 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 12:26pm

From the recent newspaper article:

“Becker said past councils used the work session as a way to have open dialogue about complex issues.”

“Open dialogue”, Mr. Becker??? “Open” to whom??? Certainly not to the elderly, or to the infirm, or to second shift workers!!! No, Mr. Becker, your semi-secret work sessions are certainly NOT open to any of the thousands of Middletonians who find it difficult or impossible to get to Donham Plaza by 5:30 on the first Tuesday evening of every month, but who cares about them, correct???

It is only their business being discussed and their money being spent!!!
]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:26:10 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26488&title=residents-question#26488 Resident's question : Sj, knowing you were on the Police... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26471&title=residents-question#26471 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 8:54am

Sj, knowing you were on the Police Board/ Committee, you undoubtedly have credible insight. I had really forgotten about this until you did a nice job of summarizing some occurrences with council members in the past. After letting this digest overnight, its truly staggering. Think about it. We have on council, and voted upon, a police chief that was involved in this rather serious incident. From my recollection, it wasn't as if someone accidently crossed the lines and just happended to stumble upon attorney client conversations. They call it 'privileged' for a reason, it gives protevtion and immunity for disclosure so allow truthful and open exchanges. This was truly mind boggling when you think about it, and we then put the chief in place to act as city manager, then city council and now he's in Warrent Cty. Do ethics mean anything anymore?
 
Now, the upstairs meeting. Good lord, its too much of a burden or council to come downstairs, and too easy to be upstairs where it is cozy and comfortable, to avoid open airing of events. My reptitive saga continues, but how, why, and when will this stop in Middletown? How many cities would tolerate this behavior and not been upset? Middletown just turns an eye, thinks its nothing, and its business as usual for the parties involved. Really an ecellent pt spider. Why bash AJ Smith for having a few beers abd his confusion as to who was picking up the tab, when the activities are very serious, and they just keep on ticking, move on to new positions, not miss a beat, and no one gives pause to what occurred.
 
Same with the meetings upstairs. Huseman did say they needed to be open and the equioment is there. We accept statements they don't like to be inconvenienced to be in front of the camera? There is too much in Middletown simply accepted and tolerated. What would Carlise have done? Probably had a few in prisonor never working in public sector again.  
]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:54:07 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26471&title=residents-question#26471 Resident's question : good one rick vor--I was told... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26469&title=residents-question#26469 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 8:09am

good one rick
 
vor--I was told that the litigations over the illegal jailhouse tapings are not over and on-going.
and at a pretty steep cost, which is also on-going
 
is that true?
dunno--probably
do u know otherwise?
]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 08:09:25 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26469&title=residents-question#26469 Resident's question : Mr. Presta has made a strong... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26467&title=residents-question#26467 Author: Richard Saunders
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 5:41am

Mr. Presta has made a strong case. I would paraphrase our mayor Lawrence Mulligan’s statement from his recent State of the City Address:

“I tell those council members who will not discuss city business in City Council Chambers to pack their briefcases and leave.”

]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 05:41:55 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26467&title=residents-question#26467 Resident's question : All that I am asking is that City... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26466&title=residents-question#26466 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 2:44am

All that I am asking is that City Council meetings be held in City Council Chambers!!!
 
Not exactly a call for revolution, a statement of rebellion, nor even a negative viewpoint, is it???
 
Anyone who could not have foreseen this as a requirement of the office could easily be deemed not to have the common sense (nor even the minimum level of sanity) required to hold the position!!!
 
The question remains: Are there things they are saying in these work sessions that they are afraid or ashamed of saying in front of the public in Council chambers with the TV cameras rolling???
]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 02:44:00 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26466&title=residents-question#26466 Resident's question : I find Nick Kidd's closing... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26465&title=residents-question#26465 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 05 2011 at 12:29am

I find Nick Kidd's closing argument quite convincing on all points. One would assume not only did the police and use the unconstitutional infomation, but the prosecutor (who resigned under 'emotional duress', and maybe the court. But, the fact it was discovered and admitted, is a vioaltion of trust, fair play, and an equitable judicial system. Cases get thrown out routinely for violating Miranda Act. Listening in to attorney/ client information is an affront on the adversarial nature of the court system and fair play. Simple as that.
 
To Mike Presta's main point. A no brainer. If you don't feel discussing issues in front of a camera, and are cloaked in secrecy, join the Masons, Skull and Bones (if you can get into Yale, and DON'T accept a position on council. Isn't that what the Sunshine Laws are about? I have stated it before. If the court system can handle a camera, and witnesses can survive them while testifying, I think city council can handle the 'discomfort' of seeing the bad angle of a receding hair line, or need to wear Oakley's or Rayban's for the glare of the light, "Sunshine" means let their be light---otherwise known as open transparency.
 
 
]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 00:29:10 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26465&title=residents-question#26465 Resident's question : Voice of Reason, you ask “Specifically... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26463&title=residents-question#26463 Author: Nick_Kidd
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 04 2011 at 11:34pm

Voice of Reason, you ask “Specifically to what dishonesty and by whom are you referring?”

I thought I had made that clear in the first line under #1. “Remember when our crooks were caught recording conversations between prisoners and their attorneys?” I do not know whether you have not heard of these recordings or weather you do not believe that violating the constitutional attorney/client privilege is a crime? I thought that everyone that had their head out of the sand had heard about the illegal recordings.

I noticed Spiderjohn mentioned them in another post.

As to the who, I believe that anyone involved in asking that the recordings be made, making the recordings, giving the recordings to the prosecutor, using the illegally obtained information in our courts or allowing the use of these recordings are all responsible and should be prosecuted under the Rico statutes as organized crimes. I believe that violating someone’s constitutional rights is a felony, therefore anyone involved in intentionally committing a felony is a felon. This was not a small oversight or a minor mistake, this was a planned conspiracy to violate the attorney/client privilege and use illegally obtained information in the prosecution of people in our court. I may not have a clear mind, but this corruption doesn’t take the clearest mind to see. All you have to do is pull your head out of the sand.

I agree that personnel cost eat up far too much money. The City has nearly 400 employees with police and firemen making up only about 164 of those employees. As for the source for the city adding employees, look in the paper’s want ads to see the ad for an Administrative Assistant for Public Works. Recently I thought the city added an assistant for Mr. Atkins.

My source about the payoffs is based on the six figure check that the city sent to some attorneys handling some of these cases. (This came out in the paper before it got bottled up in executive session.) I also heard from reliable sources that there was many large lawsuits file against the city, especially by people that had been convicted using illegally obtained information and got jail time or large fines. With all of the attorneys involved, I don’t think we got off easy. But we will never know, because the city will pay rather than go to trial and it will all be hidden in their secret meetings.

]]> Mon, 04 Apr 2011 23:34:15 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26463&title=residents-question#26463 Resident's question : With all due respect to Mr.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26462&title=residents-question#26462 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 04 2011 at 11:22pm

With all due respect to Mr. Kidd and others, we are straying far afield from the subject of this thread.

It is as simple as this: Some city council members, for reasons known only to themselves, seem to be uncomfortable discussing public business in full view of the public and prefer instead to try to finesse the Open Meetings Law by moving portions of the regular City Council meetings to venues other than City Council Chambers.
 
The solution is just as simple: Any council member unwilling to discuss public business in full view of the public should resign.
 
The Ohio Attorney General's office and case law is on my side!!!  Who is on their side??? 
]]> Mon, 04 Apr 2011 23:22:41 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26462&title=residents-question#26462 Resident's question : VOR, I had intended(and still... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26461&title=residents-question#26461 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 04 2011 at 10:28pm

VOR, I had intended(and still do) intend to limit my posts other than weighing in when a few venture into areas of discounting realities or offering 'smoke and mirror' answers to the massive dilemmas facing Middletown.
 
I am a huge John Grisham fan and agree there to be a valid case for seperating fact from fiction (and conspiracy), but this much we do know associated with Mr. Kidd's point:
 
Point 1) A laswsuit was filed against Middletown and the unsconstitutional practice of listening in on conversations privately held between an attorney and the city police, and its affect upon cases in the court, was not only an embarrassment but also a practice admitted, stopped, and under the command and knowledge from what I recall of then Police Chief Becker for many, many years. Any lawsuit involving money would be a civil matter and I have not bothered to track any case, if any, that was filed associated with this practice. I suspect a few cases were challenged on appeal for any information used at trial, and if I am not mistaken, Judge Powers, then a local attorney, was one of the most vocal about this unconstitutional and repugnant behavior.
 
I know multiple cases before the city began using an electronic docket entry many cases which appearances were made in civil cases, the city slammed default judgments through to get court costs when appearances were made, and were docketed, but removed, just for the court costs. I also know formal compalints to the Ohio Supreme Court have been filed by several (multiple parties) associated with this practice. Most call this this type of behavior a Banana Republic court system, choose your own meaning.
 
Who is adding employees? Well, undoubtedly the law department has, using funds associated with the .25% tax increase, the fire department, and  several  secretarial positions. The city has not stated it is going broke; rather, it has stated its projections are uite solid for 2011, in spite of the alarm sent out when they tried to get the 2.25% passed.
 
Finally, it appears the ruling on the vault and cenmetary maintenance was the city admitted it had put together an oversight committee and volunteers would be maintaining it, which it has a duty under Ohio statutes to do. In sum, your disagreemnt with Mr. Kidd seems to center then only on the point millions were spent on settling civil cases associated with the equivalent of wire tapping attorney cleint priviled conversations. The city has admitted it sets aside at least $75,000 annually to settle lawsuits. Your point then is the city did not pay $ Mm for the egregious act of breaking the law and constitutional federal rights of attorney client privilege? Probably true---the city did not pay $ Mm, I have no idea. Did the city do wrong? Yes, and it was considered quite a serious violation and crimianl convictions may have been reversed mased upon a case by case analysis.
 
That sir, is no conspiracy.        
]]> Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:28:00 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26461&title=residents-question#26461 Resident's question : Nick Kidd, Specifically to what... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26458&title=residents-question#26458 Author: Voice of Reason
Subject: 3768
Posted: Apr 04 2011 at 8:40pm

Nick Kidd,

Specifically to what dishonesty and by whom are you referring?  Who are the felons?  You have an active imagination, if not a clear mind.  If you're wondering where the money goes, look no further than the city personnel costs (administration, police, fire--in sum it's pretty expensive).  What is your source for concluding that "we" are paying "millions" of dollars to settle these alleged lawsuits?  What is your source that the city is adding employees?  While conspiracies are always fun and exciting to dream up, reality is far more mundane. 
 
Paul, you seem sympathetic to Nick's sentiment--can you offer any additional insight or corroborating detail?  Frankly, I'm highly skeptical that there is anything at all to this other than a person's active imagination at work with a lot time on his hands, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief if anyone can provide a substantiated source.
]]> Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:40:06 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3768&PID=26458&title=residents-question#26458