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  <title>Middletown Forum : And The Hits Just Keep Coming</title>
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  <pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2026 03:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : Things are interesting, if nothing...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=28619&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#28619</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=836">chmoore</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jul&nbsp;21&nbsp;2011 at 11:20am<br /><br />Things are interesting, if nothing else.  Thanks for the post.  CH Moore]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : Thank you for the info. chmoore....</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=28615&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#28615</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jul&nbsp;21&nbsp;2011 at 6:54am<br /><br />Thank you for the info. chmoore. My comments were directed more toward the apparent merry-go-round of supers, treasurers and educational/government people in general, who do the "round robin testing" circuit of various positions that open up from time to time. An example is in the paper today with Bill Becker leaving one job and taking on yet another job in Warren county. Ole Bill certainly has made the rounds here in the last few years, hasn't he? Can't seem to settle into a job he likes, although it would appear he's in it for the money, leaving a job that paid a paltry $71 grand a year to one that now pays him $110 grand. Would appear that Billy Boy is going for that money, trading jobs like they were baseball cards. <br /><br />Yessir. Billy Boy is a very diversified man with many skills. A police chief, a city manager, an emergency director, a township administrator, a councilman. Won't be long before we'll be reading where he's a new member of the Butler County Commissioners!  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> with all his connections. Hey, maybe state senator some day...or...Congressman Becker. Kinda has a ring to it. <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" />  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> Wherever the money is and where his influential buddies want him to be. It's almost like now with  him being led around by the nose by the MMF'ers.  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> , The Beckermeister needs guidance on where he is suppose to be in the greater scheme of things in Repub. dominated SW Ohio politically. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=28615&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#28615</guid>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : The reason that only currently-employed...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=28582&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#28582</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=836">chmoore</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jul&nbsp;19&nbsp;2011 at 12:39pm<br /><br />The reason that only currently-employed treasurers are considered by surrounding districts is that treasurers must be licensed by the State.  They must have a BA degree in business, 3 semester hours in school law, and 3 semester hours in school finance, plus 300 hours of "field experience" as an intern under a school treasurer. (There is an alternate path instead of the internship: 2 years of "significant, global fiscal officer responsibility in  an organizational setting; this must be at the level of either chief or assistant (deputy) fiscal officer and represent a broad range of functions...")  Licenses are issued July 1st each year.  Thought you'd like to know.  CH Moore. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : A little different twist in the...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=28579&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#28579</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jul&nbsp;19&nbsp;2011 at 11:15am<br /><br />A little different twist in the Journal today.....How about the school treasurer merry-go-round?? <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> Looks like we have the former Madison schools treasurer who is now Butler County Education Service Center treasurer going to Monroe, we knew about the Monroe treasurer coming to Middletown with an nice raise to boot. Who's on first. What's on second and I don't give a dam is on third. (see Abbott and Costello skit as reference) <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0" align="middle" />  <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming :    chmoore wrote:Now that the...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27802&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27802</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=469">LMAO</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;10&nbsp;2011 at 12:34pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by chmoore" alt="Originally posted by chmoore" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>chmoore wrote:</strong><br /><br />Now that the hen-house has been cleaned, can we get an accurate number of how many double-dippers MCSD has?&nbsp; When can we hope to see an end to this practice?&nbsp;</td></tr></table><div><strong>It will never end till those people in charge and making the decission stops it from happening.Also those that are double dipping quits being so damn greedy.But what can we do? Just bend over and take it like we have been doing.<img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="LOL" />&nbsp;When those that are in "CHARGED" decides to put another levy on the ballot just say "HELL NO." <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" height="17" width="17" border="0" alt="Big%20smile" /></strong></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : Now that the hen-house has been...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27800&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27800</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=836">chmoore</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;10&nbsp;2011 at 9:30am<br /><br />Now that the hen-house has been cleaned, can we get an accurate number of how many double-dippers MCSD has?&nbsp; When can we hope to see an end to this practice?&nbsp; ]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27800&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27800</guid>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : I will chime in J and say that...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27777&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27777</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=835">silver bells</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;07&nbsp;2011 at 9:27pm<br /><br /><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I will chime in </SPAN><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-char-: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings"><SPAN style="mso-char-: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings">J</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> and say that the reason we have teachers in less academically demanding roles making as much as or more than those whose jobs require higher level skillsets to teach is simple: Because they can.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Because the unions, and not any real accountability as we find in the private sector, have controlled these decisions. Because school districts have not pushed back. Because taxpayers have trusted that when schools said they needed more money “for the kids,” we believed them. Because when there is no real accountability, there is never enough money. And realistic criteria such as pay scales adjusted for different skills needed for different levels, as we see in the private sector, become skewed and distorted. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">This is because the looters come back again and again and always find ways to spend, and mostly on themselves, whatever they manage to get the taxpayers to pay. In this case, the unions have looted, demanding more and more for all members.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If you want to extend this to the school districts, I would simply say that the same logic applies. There will never be enough money to satisfy the district’s “needs.” They simply create new layers—that’s right--of administrators, etc. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Since the Ohio Graduation Test in the early 2000s, has Middletown City School District improved on the state report card? No. Has the district grown in workforce size? Yes. Year after year? Yes. Would this ever happen in a private company year after year? No. Would that company most likely be out of business? Yes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What has changed recently to bring the house of cards down in district after district? Hard economic times, state cutbacks, and a growing reluctance by taxpayers to pay and pay and pay for more levies when so many people are losing jobs, losing homes, losing hope. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">In Ohio, SB5 is another villain in the eyes of the unions. Their strategy is to give concessions to districts in order to win goodwill, then repeal SB5 in November and return to business as usual. That’s what the unions are teaching the rank and file. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>Never doubt it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">One final issue: you have to separate the idea of teaching from “managing.” At all levels school kids are bringing into the classrooms the results of social and economic problems—behaviors, dysfunctions, etc., that often bring enormous emotional, psychological and, yes, spiritual “challenges” (euphemism) to the teachers. If “managing” has become a dominant criterion for pay, schools should just say it and stop the smoke screening.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 21:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : I would be interested in hearing...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27772&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27772</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=529">Marcia Andrew</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;07&nbsp;2011 at 5:19pm<br /><br />I would be interested in hearing from teachers on this issue.<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Vet, I am guessing that it has been a few years since you have been in a kindergarden classroom.&nbsp; It is not just about coloring and letters anymore.&nbsp; It is much more structured and academic -- some would say it is basically what used to be first grade, taught in kindergarden.</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : Ms. Andrew states &amp;#034;So yes,...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27768&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27768</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;07&nbsp;2011 at 3:01pm<br /><br />Ms. Andrew states "So yes, a kindergarten teacher with 28 years experience and a Masters will make more than a new high school physics teacher".  Wow.....I understand that that is the way it is in academialand, as silly as it sounds.......just can't understand why years of tenure and going for that Masters in Education (which, IMO, is way overqualified for the subject matter to teach kindergartners and is used just to increase salaries by procuring the extra education) matters. The job at hand....ie teaching simplified subject matter at the lower grades as compared to high school math or physics, which would require a higher level of competence in knowledge should be the deciding factor here, shouldn't it? How in the world, in all these years, did the school world allow the unions to dictate such illogical criteria for pay versus knowledge required? How did those that came before the current crop of educators agree to such nonsense as tenure or additional education as useful contributors for doing the jobs at the lower grade levels? They have nothing to do with educating primary level students. Do you actually need a Phd to teach a kid to color and learn how to print and write or learn the alphabet? I could see the Phd being applied more to the math or science topics. Certainly more complicated.<br /><br /><br />"Differences in pay among teachers in the same district are the result of years of experience teaching, and level of education completed" AND...AND....DEGREE OF DIFFICULTY OF THE SUBJECT MATTER TAUGHT. <br /> <img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 15:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>And The Hits Just Keep Coming : Vet, while reasonable people could...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3880&amp;PID=27765&amp;title=and-the-hits-just-keep-coming#27765</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=529">Marcia Andrew</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 3880<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jun&nbsp;07&nbsp;2011 at 2:30pm<br /><br />Vet, while reasonable people could debate whether it is harder to teach/manage a class full of 5 year olds, many of whom have never learned how to behave in a group learning&nbsp;environment, or a class full of hormonal teenagers whose patterns of behavior or misbehavior are set, I personally agree with you that there should be some differentiation among pay based on the subject and age taught. Certainly market forces of supply and demand would justify paying more for some teachers (special ed, high school math and science, as examples of harder to fill positions).&nbsp; However, this is a bedrock, go-to-the-mat issue for unions, who have fought to keep the system the way it is.&nbsp; Differences in pay among teachers in the same district are the result of years of experience teaching, and level of education completed.&nbsp; So yes, a kindergarten teacher with 28 years experience and a Masters will make more than a new high school physics teacher.]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
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