Middletown Forum : Repeated Message http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : School Achievements : Repeated Message Tue, 06 Oct 2026 04:38:14 +0000 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 08:53:13 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3964 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Repeated Message : Today's Journal.... WATCHING... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=30976&title=repeated-message#30976 Author: VietVet
Subject: 3964
Posted: Dec 04 2011 at 8:53am

Today's Journal....

WATCHING YOUR TAX DOLLARS
Districts balance costs, academic achievement
School officials say focus is on efficiency, classroom spending.

State funding cuts and economic conditions have forced school officials to find ways to control costs in their districts while trying to meet academic standards.
Of the 10 public school systems in Butler County, nine operate below the state average spending per pupil of $10,571 for the 2010-11 school year. However, the link between higher spending and academic achievement doesn’t always match, a Middletown Journal examination shows.

Ross Local Schools has the lowest per-pupil cost, $8,444, more than $2,000 below the state average, but receives the state’s top grade, Excellent with Distinction.

WONDER WHAT THE ROSS SCHOOL DISTRICT IS DOING TO ACHIEVE SUCH HIGH MARKS WITH LESS MONEY THAT MIDDLETOWN IS NOT DOING......REALIZING THAT PERHAPS ROSS DOESN'T HAVE NEAR THE LOW INCOME/SECTION 8/DISCIPLINE ISSUES THIS TOWN HAS. KINDA BLOWS THE THEORY THAT YOU HAVE TO SPEND ALOT PER STUDENT TO ACHIEVE EXCELLENT RESULTS, DOESN'T IT?

OH WAIT.....HERE'S A NOTABLE RESPONSE FROM A ROSS OFFICIAL.....

“I think that’s the result of a culture of efficiency that we’ve established in the district that’s been here for a long time,” said Superintendent Greg Young. “We’ve always tried to do things as efficiently as possible, offering the very best education we can with the resources we have.
“We try to stay mindful of what our community’s capacity is,” he said. “Anything we do, we do it first class, but we sometimes have to limit what we can offer.”

"WE TRY TO STAY MINDFUL OF WHAT OUR COMMUNITY'S CAPACITY IS" HMMMM.

Middletown City Schools is the only district in the county that spends more than the state average, but has one of the lowest scores on the state report card. It’s per-pupil average is $10,844.

THE ONLY DISTRICT. SOUND LIKE A GOOD INVESTMENT FOR THE TAXPAYERS? WOULD YOU WANT THIS STOCK IN YOUR PORTFOLIO?

But according to Treasurer Kelley Thorpe, a comparison with the other county districts doesn’t quite tell the whole story.
“If you compare us to similar districts across the state, based on the economy in the district and the type of students we have, we’re actually on the low side of the middle,” she said. LOW SIDE OF THE MIDDLE?

One factor is the number of students on free and reduced lunches.
“There are different things that we spend money on that other districts aren’t,” Thorpe said. “One of our elementary schools has 95 percent free and reduced lunches, and we’re not allowed to collect fees for workbooks and other items to those students, so that drives our costs up.”

THEN, WHY DID CIRCUMSTANCES DICTATE THAT WE PUT OURSELVES IN THIS PREDICAMENT? WHO FORCED CITY LEADERS/SCHOOL OFFICIALS TO TAKE ON SO MANY STUDENTS WHO REQUIRED THIS SPECIAL MONEY-DRAINING ATTENTION? IF IT AFFECTED THE DISTRICT IN SUCH A NEGATIVE WAY, WHY WAS IT DONE OTHER THAN REVENUE VIA GOV. HANDOUTS FOR THE CITY? CITY LEADER'S FISHING FOR REVENUE WHILE PENALIZING THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH LOW PERFORMING STUDENTS. IN THE BEGINNING, THE CITY DID HAVE A CHOICE TO ACCEPT OR REJECT SO MUCH POVERTY COMING INTO THIS CITY.

Right in the middle of the county districts is Hamilton, but one notable thing about its numbers, according to treasurer Robert Hancock, is that 60 percent of the budget goes toward student instruction — that is, teacher salaries.
“We have the lowest percentage for administrative expenses which helps us direct more dollars to the classroom,” he said. “Our building operations costs are second lowest in the county as a percentage of total expenditures. The dollar savings are $3.4 million as compared to the state average.

WHY DOES IT SEEM THAT MIDDLETOWN HAS A VERY HIGH COST ON ADMIN. EXPENSES? WHY DOES HAMILTON HAVE LOW COST ADMIN? IDENTICAL ISSUES/SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS AS MIDDLETOWN, RIGHT?

NEW SCHOOLS DON'T HELP. SPENDING MORE PER STUDENT DOESN'T HELP. GETTING RID OF ALL THE LOW INCOME/SECTION 8/I DON'T CARE TO LEARN/ DISCIPLINE PROBLEM STUDENTS AND THEIR "I DON'T CARE IF MY KID HAS AN EDUCATION" PARENTS MAY HELP. ]]> Sun, 04 Dec 2011 08:53:13 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=30976&title=repeated-message#30976 Repeated Message : Sassy - Dayton Public School Report... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28653&title=repeated-message#28653 Author: Pacman
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 23 2011 at 10:26am

Sassy - Dayton Public School Report Card for 2009-2010 had the school system as a whole on academic watch with 1 of 26 indicators. Middletown's report for the same period was continuous improvement with 5 of 26 indicators. This does not appear to be kicking Middletown's Butt ]]> Sat, 23 Jul 2011 10:26:59 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28653&title=repeated-message#28653 Repeated Message : 10 out of 26 indicators and an... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28646&title=repeated-message#28646 Author: sassygirl
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 22 2011 at 2:09pm

10 out of 26 indicators and an 86% graduation rate. Wow!  This is just embarrassing. Why would you want to publicize that? Dayton Public and Cinccinatti Public are kicking Middletown's butt!
]]> Fri, 22 Jul 2011 14:09:31 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28646&title=repeated-message#28646 Repeated Message : Ms. Andrews:Improvement,... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28630&title=repeated-message#28630 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 8:50pm

Ms. Andrews:
 

Improvement, whether in large increments or small, isalways a good thing.

Please thank thoseresponsible and encourage them to make every effort towards continuedimprovement.

]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 20:50:58 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28630&title=repeated-message#28630 Repeated Message : Thank you for the information... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28627&title=repeated-message#28627 Author: VietVet
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 8:29pm

Thank you for the information Ms. Andrew.

You state..

"The length of the school day is set in the union contracts, which establish the maximum number of hours per day teachers and other staff may be required to be on duty in the building. (Of course, there are also many hours that teachers voluntarily put in grading homework and tests and planning lessons, and many other tasks). To lengthen the school day would require agreement from the unions (even under SB5, I believe that the union still has the right to bargain for "conditions of employment.") This would require greater pay. And the unions might not even agree, even if there was a proportional increase in pay. Because of all those hours they put in after school already".

That is most unfortunate as it takes alot of the leverage away from the employer(the schools) as to extending the work day hours for the purpose of improving instructional hours. A definite negative when we have union negotiations to contend with. In the private working world, the company would extend the working hours for exempt employees and wouldn't necessarily pay more toward the salary. They may, however, grant some comp time in lieu of additional pay. For non-exempt employees, they would pay the time and a half for the first eight hours over forty and double time for the next eight hours worked. (At least that's the way it worked in the eight companies I have worked for) There would be no "negotiations" as to the extention of the work day. If the needs of the business called for it, it would be done. It is a shame your system has no leverage for more instruction hours for the good of the district. It doesn't sound like the teacher's union would give an inch on this.

As to the subject of lengthening the school day requiring the agreement from the unions under "condition of employment".....and if done would require greater pay..........they are salary exempt. They should not be compensated for extra time. They sign a contract to do a job for a certain salary. The salary paid INCLUDES ANY AND ALL ADDITIONAL HOURS needed to get the job done. That is the way an exempt position works. Exempt positions are not paid overtime for additional hours worked. Usually exempt positions are offered by companies at a higher rate than non-exempt as compensation for the extra time with no additional pay. Furthermore, exempt positions usually have built-in perks not offered to non-exempt employees. Company cars, company credit cards, company gatherings with the lower echelon employee populace not invited, unlimited sick time, country club memberships, travel pay, frequent flyer miles (although some of these are being taken away by companies now), perks given in the contracts as to buyouts if downsized to name a few. Hourly, non-exempt people are not offered a contract nor any of these perks listed.(my experiences)

In this instance, it appears the union is preventing the use of a method that may upgrade the districts performance.

]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 20:29:00 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28627&title=repeated-message#28627 Repeated Message : Vet, Yes, a district can certainly... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28625&title=repeated-message#28625 Author: Marcia Andrew
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 6:11pm

Vet,

Yes, a district can certainly "lose" an indicator.  You have to earn it each year.  In other words, the indicator is only earned for a particular grade and subject if at least 75% of the students who took the test that year scored proficient or higher.  So, when I say we will earn 5 new indicators, doubling from 5 to 10, implied in that is that we earned the 5 previously earned, again (which, we did).  Middletown's 10 earned indicators this year are: 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th grade reading, 10th grade writing, 11th grade reading, writing, math and social studies, and attendance (the attendance indicator is earned for at least a 93% attendance rate across all grades).
 
The length of the school day is set in the union contracts, which establish the maximum number of hours per day teachers and other staff may be required to be on duty in the building. (Of course, there are also many hours that teachers voluntarily put in grading homework and tests and planning lessons, and many other tasks).  To lengthen the school day would require agreement from the unions (even under SB5, I believe that the union still has the right to bargain for "conditions of employment.")  This would require greater pay.  And the unions might not even agree, even if there was a proportional increase in pay. Because of all those hours they put in after school already.
 
John and Scouter, thank you for your posts.
]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:11:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28625&title=repeated-message#28625 Repeated Message : That is excellent news Mrs. Andrew!... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28623&title=repeated-message#28623 Author: middletownscouter
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 4:23pm

That is excellent news Mrs. Andrew!]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:23:54 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28623&title=repeated-message#28623 Repeated Message : Thanks for the update. Its good... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28622&title=repeated-message#28622 Author: John Beagle
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 3:44pm

Thanks for the update. Its good to see Middletown making progress.]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:44:06 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28622&title=repeated-message#28622 Repeated Message : Almost 50% of the way there, Ms.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28621&title=repeated-message#28621 Author: VietVet
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 3:23pm

Almost 50% of the way there, Ms. Andrew. Improvement, nevertheless.

Question: Now that the district has indicator number 11 accomplished, does it have to maintain that in the next test sequence? Can an indicator be subtracted if the 11th grade social studies kids for next year score below a 75%....the magical number as you stated in a post above? Can a district lose an indicator and go backward in progress?

Another question: In a post above, you mentioned that one of the problems is not enough time in the classroom. IE, the school day was too short. Who said the school day had to start at 7 or 7:30AM and end at 2 or 2:30PM? The union? The parents? The school board? What is preventing this district from extending the school day until 4 or 4:30PM? State law?/Fed law? Sure you would get some lip from the union (teachers), perhaps other school personnel, and some parents, but if the intent was to have more time to teach and improve the performance, wouldn't it be worth the effort to change it? The hours added would be sizable over the duration of the school year. The teachers are salaried. I would imagine exempt in status meaning they can be mandatoried to work the amount of hours it would take to do the job for the same pay. If true, they wouldn't have a gripe coming based on their exempt pay status. ]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:23:02 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28621&title=repeated-message#28621 Repeated Message : Just an update...MCSD will earn... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28620&title=repeated-message#28620 Author: Marcia Andrew
Subject: 3964
Posted: Jul 21 2011 at 1:05pm

Just an update...MCSD will earn a 5th new indicator (for a total of 10 out of 26) this year, for 11th grade Social Studies.  I had left out the 11th grade OGT results when I wrote my previous posts on this thread.]]> Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:05:11 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3964&PID=28620&title=repeated-message#28620