Middletown Forum : 7/19 Council meeting http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Council : 7/19 Council meeting Wed, 07 Oct 2026 00:49:02 +0000 Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:00:58 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=3997 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ 7/19 Council meeting : When will staff ever come to the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28633&title=7-19-council-meeting#28633 Author: ground swat
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 22 2011 at 7:00am

When will staff ever come to the podium with a solid number? Thats what AJ, to his credit brought up with the road repair funds. How do we go from $9,900 to $2,000. I'm glad it's less but again it's how they present a project and guess at the cost. And they wonder why some of us ask questions.  But in the same breath I am stunned by the waste of time and redundancy of several on this council. Do they just like to hear themselves talk? I only wish we could limit who can get blip tv.]]> Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:00:58 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28633&title=7-19-council-meeting#28633 7/19 Council meeting : Mike, if what you say is true,... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28604&title=7-19-council-meeting#28604 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 5:36pm

Mike, if what you say is true, which I have no reaason to doubt your accurancy, then it is a violation of law. An abstention does not count EVER as a YES vote, but is rendered moot as a vote tally when the majority has already voted sufficiently to pass a resolution, motion, et al. In the event the abstention was needed to fulfill a uorum, in your reference, six votes, the vote would be 5-1, as the absention would be considered a NO VOTE, never a YES. If this practice has been routine as counting a vote to be a YES when it is a requirement to fulfill the quorum, it is in legal error. In the case of the two abstentions, the vote would be 4-3, AJ Smith, no, TA, and JL, no, as they abstained. You cannot make an abstention a YES vote in a quorum. When a quorum has been met, and the majority met, the absention is moot, but would not be considered as a YES vote with the majority.
 
I see your point, when LL returns, if he pulls the 6-1 ruling shell game, it won't fly. I think Mr. Allen would make this point strongly. As stated previously, the "wiggle" room may be in what makes for a "conflict", but it is highly subjective, and as both are on the record as perceiving it a conlfict to vote, they will be hard pressed to alter that position. Unless AJS is moved to change his vote, the Senior Citizen maneuver will have to await another day, and when Tom Allen leaves office.
]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:36:25 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28604&title=7-19-council-meeting#28604 7/19 Council meeting : Acclaro, While I agree... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28603&title=7-19-council-meeting#28603 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 5:18pm

Acclaro,

While Iagree with you in principle, it is simply a fact that Mr. Landen, Esq. rulesthat “abstentions count with the majority” whenever it suits the shotcallers. 

I firstnoticed this during the very last council meeting of Perry Thatcher’s council term.  The vote was for the purchase of the acreageowned by Mr. Thatcher, et al, by the city for the hospital.  It was being done as emergency legislationand needed six votes.  Only six councilmembers were present (I believe because Sonny Hill was ill?) and after the rollcall Landen announced:  “Abstentionscount with the majority, the legislation passes.” I am absolutely certain ofthis because I was flabbergasted, and I don’t get flabbergasted easily.  I saw nothing wrong with this this deal (thecity buying property which Mr. Thatcher and Adam Cristo had owned for many,many years) but I certainly disagreed with the way it was handled (this “abstentionscount with the majority” scam).  Theyshould’ve simply had a 1st and 2nd reading, and boughtthe property with non-emergency legislation.

Landen, Esq.has used this same ploy a few more times since then, the latest being duringthe last year, although I can’t recall the specific item of legislation.

]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:18:25 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28603&title=7-19-council-meeting#28603 7/19 Council meeting : warmandfuzzy wrote:Can... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28602&title=7-19-council-meeting#28602 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 4:52pm

Originally posted by warmandfuzzy warmandfuzzy wrote:

Can someone explain WHY the costs of maintaining the S.Main Street decorative lights will increase by $343 a month over the costs of maintaining the existing lighting? Who came up with this figure, and what is this cost based on?
Thecost goes up because it is the cost for maintenance andelectricity usage for 45 new decorative olde tyme lights as opposed tothe existing 13 lights.  This is the figure given by Mr. Tadych of the city engineering staff at the Council meeting on Tuesday night.  ]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:52:02 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28602&title=7-19-council-meeting#28602 7/19 Council meeting : warmandfuzzy wrote:Can someoneexplain... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28600&title=7-19-council-meeting#28600 Author: LMAO
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 2:14pm

Originally posted by warmandfuzzy warmandfuzzy wrote:

Can someone explain WHY the costs of maintaining the S.Main Street decorative lights will increase by $343 a month over the costs of maintaining the existing lighting? Who came up with this figure, and what is this cost based on?
They come up with any price they want.I think the price has jumped up a few times just for the cost.
The spineless ones dont give a Dam what the people think,their going to do as they please.Wink
]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:14:36 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28600&title=7-19-council-meeting#28600 7/19 Council meeting : Can someoneexplain WHY the costs... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28598&title=7-19-council-meeting#28598 Author: warmandfuzzy
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 12:37pm

Can someone explain WHY the costs of maintaining the S.Main Street decorative lights will increase by $343 a month over the costs of maintaining the existing lighting? Who came up with this figure, and what is this cost based on?]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:37:49 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28598&title=7-19-council-meeting#28598 7/19 Council meeting : Mike, I am certain the counting... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28597&title=7-19-council-meeting#28597 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 11:04am

Mike, I am certain the counting of an abstention is used only to add to a quaorum, but legally, could not be counted as a YES vote, it cannot. The Roberts Directory for Procedure is relatively renown and the city and state laws would of course address the issue, but an "absent" vote associated with a conflict or another reason, would absolutely not be added to the YES votes. It may be added only to establish a minimal number for quorum.
 
The interesting point will be will MMF now force Mr. Allen to not run again (I think he will not seek office as this was a favor) and find someone who does not have a conflict. Of course, LL may come back, and state he has done his research and that there to be no conflict of interest with with JL or TA. But, it would make theThe phrase "abstention votes" is an oxymoron, an abstention being a refusal to vote. To abstain means to refrain from voting, and, as a consequence, there can be no such thing as an "abstention vote."

"In the usual situation, where either a majority vote or a two-thirds vote is required, abstentions have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the vote since what is required is either a majority or two thirds of the votes cast. On the other hand, if the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a "no" vote. Even in such a case, however, an abstention is not a vote. [RONR (10th ed.), p. 387, l. 7-13; p. 388, l. 3-6; p. 390, l. 13-24; see also p.66 of RONR In Brief.]"

 
 
 
]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:04:31 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28597&title=7-19-council-meeting#28597 7/19 Council meeting : Mike, thanks for covering the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28596&title=7-19-council-meeting#28596 Author: John Beagle
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 10:07am

Mike, thanks for covering the council meetings. I read your posts with great interest.]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:07:07 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28596&title=7-19-council-meeting#28596 7/19 Council meeting : I dont care what anyone says... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28595&title=7-19-council-meeting#28595 Author: LMAO
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 9:35am

I dont care what anyone says the rest of the city will be footing the bill for maintance on them if they happen to go out.They cant keep records on who and who isnt paying for sewer usage let alone keeping records on charging people for South Main pretty lights.LOL
]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:35:21 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28595&title=7-19-council-meeting#28595 7/19 Council meeting : I don't understand why Mulligan... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28594&title=7-19-council-meeting#28594 Author: acclaro
Subject: 3997
Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 9:34am

I don't understand why Mulligan would not abstain from voting as well. His mother was principal when the other Stugmyer was/is Business manager at Fenwick. So, the brother Stugmyer that was put in that position as it helped Fenwick move, is getting help from Mulligan and the crew on council because they provided needed funds to move Fenwick out of Middletown. That is an obvious conflict of interest, although LM will still vote. LL will state there is no conflict between Allen and JL because the support provided the Sr. Citizens Center by each of their employers is philanthropic, not a profit motivation, but both would be wise to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest (and probably an underlying desire to avoid revealing they personally don't think it is prudent to put it on the ballot). 
Now recall LL is the same who shot down the RIF and mail box stop to be put in the Senior Citizen Center now being asked to orchestrate the necessary 6 votes. there should really only be 5 available, as LM should abstain. With so many local attorneys on the Board, including Shew, Imhoff, others, probably a conflict with DP as well, as he knows these attorneys and I know Imhoff used to get alot of subcontract work from Pratt and Singer when they had 7 attorneys.
 
Why is this a higher priority with council than taking care of setting the dedicated fund requiremet back as an ordinance? Buehler...Buehler? Anyone seen Buehler?  
]]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:34:42 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3997&PID=28594&title=7-19-council-meeting#28594