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  <title>Middletown Forum : MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house</title>
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  <pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2026 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house :    Rhodes wrote:No tunnels connect...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=37667&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#37667</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1369">VictoiranLover</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Apr&nbsp;22&nbsp;2013 at 9:11pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Rhodes" alt="Originally posted by Rhodes" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Rhodes wrote:</strong><br /><br />No tunnels connect any of the structures on S. Main for human travel.  There may be old sewer lines, but that's it.  As far as tunnels on the Sorg Mansion property connecting the 3 structures there, I don't know about that.  As for skipping to my lou down Main St... it never happened.</td></tr></table><br> I checked with the City Engineer about the tunnels and the reason the house was taken off the market the end of March 2013, the flooding and burst pipe, and he also had heard of the rumored tunnels but had no drawings or any proof of such. &nbsp;He doubted they still exist, if they ever did, due to all the utility construction over the past 125+ years. &nbsp;Regardless he did not think they would add to any flooding issues. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In regards to the flooding he also had not heard of any recent flooding issues. &nbsp;There are combined storm/sewer lines in that area but he said it would take a monumental rain to cause any backup issues. These storm/sewer lines are NOT made for travel.&nbsp; Also, the downtown is protected from the river by levees built after the great flooding of 1913. &nbsp;He assured me that any downtown flooding would be something of a very rare event indeed. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you are an elite member of society, as Paul Sorg was, I highly doubt you would travel underground. Even if entertaining, Paul would be proud to show off his city. He would travel above ground. Paul also died before completion of the renovations of the Mansion in 1902, and Jennie barely used the house and chose to use her son Paul J Sorgs house when she was in town.&nbsp; If said tunnels exist how would you get the horse and carriage above and below ground once you get home, to the bank, to the opera house? It is highly unlikely that such folklore is evident. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in the house after it went up for sale, I spent time in the basement and no where did the stacked stone foundation show any such proof of a tunnel that was covered over.&nbsp; The 2 boilers in the carriage house are the size of a train engine. The second boiler was NEVER fired it was there for redundancy. The boilers sit below ground level and have an 8-10 inch main that lead into the main house for heat. I was told that the snow never accumulated over the area that the pipe ran. The steam from the pipe kept the ground from freezing. The house has a complex amount of chimneys, cold air returns, and heat ducts. They work in combination with the steam heat, radiators, and multiple fireplaces. There was a separate smaller boiler in the house that was installed for the conservatory that Mrs Sorg had, and was removed at a later date after the sale of the house. I have also read that there was a power station in the carriage house that powered the Sorg Estate, the US Hotel, and the Sorg Opera House. That is another part of Middletown folklore.&nbsp; <br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=37667&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#37667</guid>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : I checked with the City Engineer...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=37666&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#37666</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1369">VictoiranLover</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Apr&nbsp;22&nbsp;2013 at 9:07pm<br /><br /><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I checked with the City Engineer about the tunnels and the reason the house was taken off the market the end of March 2013, the flooding and burst pipe, and he also had heard of the rumored tunnels but had no drawings or any proof of such. &nbsp;He doubted they still exist, if they ever did, due to all the utility construction over the past 125+ years. &nbsp;Regardless he did not think they would add to any flooding issues. &nbsp;&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In regards to the flooding he also had not heard of any recent flooding issues. &nbsp;There are combined storm/sewer lines in that area but he said it would take a monumental rain to cause any backup issues. These storm/sewer lines are NOT made for travel.&nbsp; Also, the downtown is protected from the river by levees built after the great flooding of 1913. &nbsp;He assured me that any downtown flooding would be something of a very rare event indeed. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you are an elite member of society, as Paul Sorg was, I highly doubt you would travel underground. Even if entertaining, Paul would be proud to show off his city. He would travel above ground. Paul also died before completion of the renovations of the Mansion in 1902, and Jennie barely used the house and chose to use her son Paul J Sorgs house when she was in town.&nbsp; If said tunnels exist how would you get the horse and carriage above and below ground once you get home, to the bank, to the opera house? It is highly unlikely that such folklore is evident. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been in the house after it went up for sale, I spent time in the basement and no where did the stacked stone foundation show any such proof of a tunnel that was covered over.&nbsp; The 2 boilers in the carriage house are the size of a train engine. The second boiler was NEVER fired it was there for redundancy. The boilers sit below ground level and have an 8-10 inch main that lead into the main house for heat. I was told that the snow never accumulated over the area that the pipe ran. The steam from the pipe kept the ground from freezing. The house has a complex amount of chimneys, cold air returns, and heat ducts. They work in combination with the steam heat, radiators, and multiple fireplaces. There was a separate smaller boiler in the house that was installed for the conservatory that Mrs Sorg had, and was removed at a later date after the sale of the house. I have also read that there was a power station in the carriage house that powered the Sorg Estate, the US Hotel, and the Sorg Opera House. That is another part of Middletown folklore.&nbsp; <br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=37666&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#37666</guid>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Tony I haven&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t been in this...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32189&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32189</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=115">Vivian Moon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;09&nbsp;2012 at 5:44pm<br /><br /><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Tony<BR><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>I haven’t been in this building for several years so I would say the 2.5 million would just bring it up to code and bring it to working condition so you could rent the space. I believe if you did a complete restoration you would need another million and also hundreds of hours of volunteer labor. As you know when you start getting in custom work you pay the big bucks.<BR><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>It is now owned by the company that is listed on the </SPAN><?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Butler</SPAN></st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"> </SPAN><st1:Place><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">County</SPAN></st1:place></st1:place><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"> web site. So what they are going to do with is unknown at this time. <BR><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>Tony I had a conversation just the other day about this subject and suggested that all the Arts Groups should go together in one building so they could pool their resources (like the Sorg Opera House) and I was told point blank that it would never work…that each group deserved and wanted their own space. So if that is the mind set I don’t know how one Art Group could restore and support a building as large as the Sorg Opera House.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Vivian, I wonder if the estimate...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32187&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32187</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=755">TonyB</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;09&nbsp;2012 at 4:00pm<br /><br />Vivian, <br>I wonder if the estimate was just to restore the theater portion of the building and not the "commercial" front part. Either way, $2.5M is what I've heard for a while now. I would be interested in what that estimate entailed. Is it a complete restoration or just a "working" i.e., profitable, restoration? I also wonder if someone else might now bid on the building. Time will tell. Does seem a little short-sighted to have an "arts" district and not have a venue for the performing arts. JMO.<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Here is the latest info on the...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32186&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32186</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=115">Vivian Moon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;09&nbsp;2012 at 2:49pm<br /><br /><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Here is the latest info on the Sorg Opera House that has been confirmed by City Hall <BR>MMF received an estimate of 2.5 million to restore the Sorg Opera House so MMF removed their bid. To be honest I'm surprised it wasn't more. <BR>I believe it will cost about a million dollars to demo this property.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Ms&#111;normal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Vivian,I would like to believe...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32150&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32150</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=755">TonyB</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;07&nbsp;2012 at 12:57pm<br /><br />Vivian,<br><br>I would like to believe that a new organization will have success with a new image of downtown. However, wait and watch would not be my first choice. If Downtown Middletown Inc. gets the support of the property owners, they stand a fair chance. To that end, I would encourage them to engage in some outreach to those owners and to investors who could purchase the city owned real estate in the downtown area. It might also behoove them to have a series of public meetings to get citizen input and mobilize non-profit participation and coordination in the downtown. A plan that the public can support that is financed by private interests would be the best hope to a revitalized downtown.<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Tony Downtown Middletown Inc.,...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32149&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32149</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=115">Vivian Moon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;07&nbsp;2012 at 10:54am<br /><br /><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size=3>Tony<DIV>Downtown Middletown Inc., is now in charge of changing the image and selling downtown.</FONT><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"> I guess we will just need to wait and watch the majic happen.</DIV></SPAN></FONT>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : Vivian,What, city leaders saying...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32146&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32146</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=755">TonyB</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;07&nbsp;2012 at 8:24am<br /><br />Vivian,<br><br>What, city leaders saying something and then not following through? Who could ever imagine that?<br><br>Once again, say something, throw out a little smoke screen and then hope that everyone forgets about it. MMF obviously has its own timetable, plans and doesn't want to let the cat out of the bag until it's ready for their "expert" analysis. At that point, they will declare the building "unprofitable" and move to demolish. The longer they conceal their intent, the less likely anyone else could interfere. I'll say it again, whoever does the public relations for the city and/or MMF needs to be fired!!!<br><br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : GentlemenIn January we were told...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=32143&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#32143</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=115">Vivian Moon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;07&nbsp;2012 at 6:15am<br /><br /><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">Gentlemen<BR>In January we were told that we would know the fate of the Sorg Opera House in February. Well February has come and gone and </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">we still have no answers about what will happen to the Sorg Opera House.<BR>On </SPAN><?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Year="2012" Day="26" M&#111;nth="1"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">January 26, 2012</SPAN></st1:date><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"> the City wrote a $75,000 to Middletown Moving Forward and the check cleared the bank </SPAN><st1:date Year="2012" Day="3" M&#111;nth="2"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">February 3, 2012</SPAN></st1:date><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA"><BR><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"></SPAN>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>MMF and the &quot;opera&quot; house : acclaro,I guess someone should...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4278&amp;PID=31529&amp;title=mmf-and-the-opera-house#31529</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=755">TonyB</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 4278<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Jan&nbsp;17&nbsp;2012 at 2:30pm<br /><br />acclaro,<br><br>I guess someone should tell MMF that they are not a CIC so they can remove that designation from their website!!! As for other non-profits in the city, I can think of a few more than you mentioned who might be interested in getting some money from the city. This whole "are they or are they not" mess demonstrates yet again the "half-a**" approach our city seems to take concerning economic development. Does anybody on council pay attention to what the administration is doing? <br><br>On another note, they want to use the Opera House as a dormitory? If they had any brains, they'd rehab the Commercial Building portion to make the building at least revenue neutral. There were plenty of businesses in the building before!!! I believe that was the whole purpose for putting office and commercial space in the front portion of the building. Does anyone have any idea who is putting together the estimate for rehab of the building? Once again, to many unanswered questions and very little due diligence being done.<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
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