Middletown Forum : Citizens 4 the Senior Center

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : The drum beat of complaints aboutvarious...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:15:04 +0000

Author: Bill
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 2:15pm

The drum beat of complaints about various city endeavors like street paving, Cinc St., the canal, downtown, historic district, etc. should be applicable to the Senior levy. Incompetence? check. Bailout? check. Levy benefiting a handful behind a pet project? check.

I'm shaking my head about the number of MUSA posters (seniors?) who seem to be supporting this.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : Something else that is illogical:...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:46:24 +0000

Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 1:46pm

Something else that is illogical:

Middleteown29 and Neil Barille, who both have never seen a tax that they didn't like, are suddenly opposed to this one!!!

If this was a levy to raise salaries at city hall, pay for maintenance and upgrades for homes in the historic districts, buy and restore the Sorg Mansion, or subsidize arts and antique dealers, they would be all over anyone who opposed it!!!

Yet somehow, they are now strangely anti-tax crusaders??? So who has the credibility issue???

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : 2 yes votes from this household....

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:00:34 +0000

Author: LMAO
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 12:00pm

2 yes votes from this household.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : "Emotional voting, without...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:53:48 +0000

Author: VietVet
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 11:53am

"Emotional voting, without an understanding of what will truly happen upon failure, is what the pro-levy folsk are hoping for.

And this whole issue just shows that all the past rantings from Nagy, Vet, others can be thrown out the window. You folks have no credibility anymore"

Atta boy Neil!

Ouch! Folks, please continue to listen to Neil. He has all the answers and knows what is best for Middletown and you. We "ranters" will bow out and let Neil run this show from now on.

Neil?....please continue.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : Neil, You have put this in proper...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 11:18:30 +0000

Author: Paul Nagy
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 11:18am

Neil,
       You have put this in proper perspective for me. "There are surely other options." I appreciate it. One thing I have never been able to stand is for someone to call me stupid and them be right about it. I think you are right about this. I was thinking emotionally.
        One objection. I don't think that all the past rantings from Nagy can be thrown out. We needed them In the past because you and others didn't do much ranting. I'm glad you are now. You have good and important insight and I for one won't throw out this ranting on your part because it is a valuable ranting in the discussion of an issue. Why do people insist on getting personal in a discussion instead of sticking to the subject?
         Thanks for your post.
             pn

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : acclaro: Your argument concerning...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:55:03 +0000

Author: VietVet
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 10:55am

acclaro:

Your argument concerning "need" has validity as to the mortgage, over-bought theme.

"The only need here is to pay for a bailout for the few that took care of the Fenwick move by buying property and building a site not needed for 75% of senior citizens"

Would like to throw you some residuals on the "need" thing.....

Certainly the financing, over-financed, over-extravagant thinking is true and certainly overshadows the need for people like us who actually call the Seniors Center and schedule my wife to be picked up for her drs. appts. Yes, we use the service and NEED the service. We are legitimate in our needs.

It is much easier to place her in her wheelchair, on the hydraulic lift of the Seniors bus and strap her in than to.........

Place her in her wheelchair. Wheel her out to the small car, low enough to the ground, lift her out of the chair, pivot her against the seat and gently place her backwards onto the car seat, turning her legs into the leg area and strapping her in. Then folding the wheelchair, putting it in the trunk, driving to the destination and doing it in reverse order, each time for each appt. I think you can see where we're coming from on this. Which would you choose?

I will not vote for this levy on the sole basis of helping them finance an overdone project. I agree, the taxpayer shouldn't help them clean up their financial mess. I will vote for this levy because, for us, the need is there on a day to day basis. Not so sure I can say the same things about the safety levy and school levies although, as to safety levy issues, the medic runs have helped us in the past.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : Nagy, ktf1179: You're...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:41:26 +0000

Author: Neil Barille
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 10:41am

Nagy, ktf1179:

You're not getting my point -- the failure of this levy will NOT result in a shut down of senior services. The organization WILL go on, it just may be in a more affordable location. Let them default on the debt and restructure in a new, smaller location that has a kitchen. There's a certain building on Verity Pkwy that would be a great fit -- formerly know as the Seniro Center. But the city owns that now....or Cincy St does. There are surely other options.

Emotional voting, without an understanding of what will truly happen upon failure, is what the pro-levy folsk are hoping for.

And this whole issue just shows that all the past rantings from Nagy, Vet, others can be thrown out the window. You folks have no credibility anymore.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : It appears to be an oxymoron those...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:24:03 +0000

Author: acclaro
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 10:24am

It appears to be an oxymoron those that oppose most levies and tax increases in the city if the walking dead now are advocates of passing this senior tax proposal on need. A disappointing contradiction based application of rationale thought in certain instances and irrational in others.

Need? That' illogical. If there were a need, then logically, 75% of seniors would be members, not waiting on others to bail them out for getting Fenwick moved to their new location. Stugmeyer at seniors citizen was brother to Fenwick Stugmeyer, the business manager, all orchestrated by many existing council members.

Need? 11 acres sitting idle was needed for what? A new massive building was needed for what? 75% of seniors don't see the need or they would be members. The need was to get Fenwick moved and that was accomplished. Now the bailout to take care of the debt absorbed by taxpayers.

Need? Well then, lets's have taxes for income as there is a NEED for roads neglected. Let's pass the school levy as there is a NEED for replacement of an aged building and remaining competitive with look and feel of other districts. Let's raise taxes to 13% as there is a need to avoid laying off one city worker. Completely illogical and contradictory argument.

The only need here is to pay for a bailout for the few that took care of the Fenwick move by buying property and building a site not needed for 75% of senior citizens. But no worries. The seniors got the tax levy passed, so the voting blocks reciprocate. This levy will pass, just like the school building levy will pass. The outcome? No houses are being bought in Middletown, the city of quid pro quo assisted on occasion, by those who contradict positions without applying the same argument consistently nor mounting serious opposition
in spite of rhetoric.

Checkmate again, 75% majority, based on quid pro quo.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : Everyone spent beyond their means...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:22:34 +0000

Author: ktf1179
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 10:22am

Everyone spent beyond their means back in the 2000's. That was just the mindset of that time period.

I do agree that in theory they don't deserve to be bailed out because of the excesses. However I feel that point changes when you have people needing and depending on these services to get by.

The truth is, these services are needed because of the aging baby boomer generation. I would rather keep a senior center open and running over any wasteful school levy, that usually ends up paying for Administration and teacher salaries, and luxurious buildings and hi-tech equipment that is not needed to educate children.

Besides we will all be seniors citizens one day, and we might need those very services that you want to shut down.

Citizens 4 the Senior Center : Neil, I think you are right about...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:26:40 +0000

Author: Paul Nagy
Subject: 4787
Posted: Oct 02 2012 at 9:26am

Neil,
I think you are right about not bailing out the organization but what about those that are crucially in need of their services? That's the big problem for me. Thanks for the post.
pn