Middletown Forum : AGENDA 6-04-2013 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Council : AGENDA 6-04-2013 Tue, 06 Oct 2026 14:08:42 +0000 Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:18:33 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=5290 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ AGENDA 6-04-2013 : The AK workers were locked out... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38241&title=agenda-6042013#38241 Author: over the hill
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 11 2013 at 12:18pm

The AK workers were locked out for a year.I think that was a huge blow to Middletown economy then the economy nationally took a nose dive and Midd was never able to recover then a new admin came in with bad policies for Midd. Dayton was hit hard too and that effected Midd too then AK moved it's head quarters out of Midd. Midd will never be the same work force it was before. The work force of the future is service and tech areas,that's the jobs that will be needed so the work force needs to educate themselves in those areas.IMO]]> Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:18:33 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38241&title=agenda-6042013#38241 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Tony,I agree with you, and... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38240&title=agenda-6042013#38240 Author: processor
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 11 2013 at 11:16am

Tony,
I agree with you, and Libertarian, that what Middletown needs is a huge increase in high paying jobs.  However, I believe that the huge numbers of section 8 and housing projects and the resulting poor demographics and lack of amenities and low performing schools greatly reduce the chance of Middletown attracting employers that would offer these sorts of positions.  That until these underlying issues are addressed and solved there won't be improvement in the job opportunities just further degradation. 
 
Regarding the Federal money and how poorly it was spent, you've just made my point about the political process not being able to effectively spend our tax dollars especially when it comes to economic development.  If you can't spend the money effectively why wouldn't you leave it in private individual's hands and let them spend it as they see fit.
 
Regarding ARMCO, didn't they leave well after Middletown's slide?  I think they left as a result of the slide and weren't the cause of the slide though them leaving certainly didn't help.
]]> Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:16:16 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38240&title=agenda-6042013#38240 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Please remember what VietVet... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38238&title=agenda-6042013#38238 Author: Libertarian
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 11 2013 at 9:09am

Please remember what VietVet always says:  "Our first priority should have been and is to bring good jobs here."  He speaks the plain and simple truth.]]> Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:09:05 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38238&title=agenda-6042013#38238 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Processor,The fact that the money... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38237&title=agenda-6042013#38237 Author: TonyB
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 11 2013 at 7:21am

Processor,

The fact that the money the federal government gave to Middletown was spent poorly wasn't the fault of the Feds but the city. Poor plans and even poorer execution doomed the downtown mall and Lake Middletown. The fault here wasn't the money spent but how it was spent. No amount of money would have prevented the slide of prosperity in Middletown that wasn't associated with bring jobs to the city. Armco was the one-trick pony in town and when their employment started to decline and they moved their corporate headquarters out of town, the city started to decline as well.

I do hate to break this to you but we are all dependent. It's a complete fallacy to think that you are self sufficient when you don't grow your own food, produce your own electricity and supply your own water. The good people of Middletown do not support removing all Section 8 housing but there is no question that Section 8 is out of balance with the rest of the county, the state and the nation as a whole. There won't be a significant increase in the welfare of Middletown until living wage jobs are brought to town in large numbers.
]]> Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:21:14 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38237&title=agenda-6042013#38237 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Tony,I admire your compassion,... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38235&title=agenda-6042013#38235 Author: processor
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 5:31pm

Tony,
I admire your compassion, however, I'm convinced that section 8 is a huge detriment to Middletown and until it is removed Middletown will never stand a chance of improving to any great degree.  I feel badly for the poor and the section 8 people but the good people of Middletown can only support so many people until their lives are so negatively impacted that they are no longer able to help.  Then everyone is worse off.  In addition helping people to learn to help themselves is a wonderful thing that I try to do daily, however, creating a dependent class of people causes harm to all.  Section 8 has, unfortunately, become a way of life for too many people.
 
Regarding removing money from the local economy, money spent unwisely or on the wrong things can cause more long term harm than not spending it in the first place.  More money does not always equal increased prosperity.  Middletown is a prime example.  Please show me where all of the Federal money spent in Middletown has kept us where we were in the 70's or 80's.  For example, did the downtown mall prevent the downtown from failing?  That was a lot of Federal money.  I'm sure it helped short term, but long term I think that it left us worse off that if the downtown merchants had been forced to re-define themselves when they were still reasonable financially strong.  I'm sure that the members of this board can think of hundreds of additional examples where Federal money helped short term, but left us worse in the long term.
]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:31:16 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38235&title=agenda-6042013#38235 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Processor,How do you come up with... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38234&title=agenda-6042013#38234 Author: TonyB
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 4:59pm

Processor,

How do you come up with the idea that removing money from the local economy would be good for the city? What possesses you to decide that the poor should leave and "figure something out" to support themselves? Are you an employer? A moving company? Should we just give all the Sec. 8 families a one-way bus ticket? Your lack of compassion and understanding isn't really a surprise but I do wonder where you come up with this kind of logic.

Having said that, I agree that the city should never have accepted all those vouchers. However, what is done is done. The city needs to work with HUD to reduce the number of vouchers through attrition. A lawsuit would only drain more money from the city fighting a battle they are destined to lose. Middletown isn't getting out of the current death spiral until they can bring living wage jobs to the city. Until that happens, poverty and crime will continue and once those Sec. 8 vouchers are finally reduced, you won't have that excuse to use for why Middletown is in decline.
]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:59:03 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38234&title=agenda-6042013#38234 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Vivian,I don't understand... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38231&title=agenda-6042013#38231 Author: processor
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 4:32pm

Vivian,
I don't understand what "rights" landlords and tenant have.  Rights are constitutionally given.  Rights are not a matter of law.  There is nothing constitutional about the HUD mess.  They don't have rights to federally subsidized rent.  Just because landlords have figured out how to suck money from the public tit, as have the section 8 tenants and just because it would financially hurt them if the program were cut off, doesn't mean they have "rights"
 
Sports Mom,
I agree that HUD could retaliate and cut off some funding, and probably would.  I don't agree that it would hurt Middletown to lose this money.  It may actually help.  I can't see where any of the city building purchases have amounted to a help for the citizens of Middletown.  In spite of their best of intentions I can't see where city leaders can invest money better than private individuals.  What value have the citizens received from all of the purchases, etc?  I can't think of any but may be missing some good that has come out of the HUD money.  I just don't see where "investments" that are determined by a political process come out good.  Not because of the people involved...many really do care...the process just doesn't support good decisions when it comes to investment.  IMO
]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:32:55 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38231&title=agenda-6042013#38231 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Processor, while I agree with... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38229&title=agenda-6042013#38229 Author: Sports Mom
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 3:44pm

Processor, while I agree with everything you said it's not as easy as let HUD sue us.  As Vivian stated before as a recipient of HUD monies, the City submits a plan to HUD as to what they will do with that money.  If you don't follow the plan, they simply cut off your money.  It's used for more than just Section 8 Housing and could do more harm than good to lose eligibility.  Vouchers need to be reduced but not at the cost of all HUD programs.]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:44:00 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38229&title=agenda-6042013#38229 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Over the HillI believe that City... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38228&title=agenda-6042013#38228 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 12:32pm

Over the Hill
I believe that City Hall has already contacted all our state officials.

]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 12:32:52 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38228&title=agenda-6042013#38228 AGENDA 6-04-2013 : Proscessor-Vivian, I don't... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38227&title=agenda-6042013#38227 Author: Vivian Moon
Subject: 5290
Posted: Jun 10 2013 at 12:29pm

Proscessor-Vivian, I don't know much about the history of section 8 in Middletown, but I do know that the huge number of vouchers in Middletown is very detrimental to the city and to the residents.  Our cost has gone way up and the quality of life in Middletown has gone way down.  I feel for the people who may not be getting the vouchers, but they need to go somewhere else and/or figure out a way to provide for themselves.  The huge numbers of section 8 is a huge drag on the city directly and indirectly.  The cost of police and schools are much higher than they would be without the section 8.  Increased crime is a huge cost to victims.  Major companies won't invest because the demographics (ie too many poor people) won't support their businesses and this reduces the amenities in Middletown which reduces the city's ability to attract new residents which reduces our property values which then continues the cycle.

Processor
I agree with everything that you have stated above.
This was a ROYAL SCREW UP, a TOTAL FAILURE of City Hall from the City Council Members, City Managers, and Department Heads.
And just think, our tax dollars were used to pay their salaries while they destroyed our city.
With that said you must also remember that the landlords and the tenants have rights. 

]]> Mon, 10 Jun 2013 12:29:24 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5290&PID=38227&title=agenda-6042013#38227