Middletown Forum : TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : Middletown Courts : TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN Mon, 05 Oct 2026 18:56:01 +0000 Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:22:18 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=5385 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : The argument the judges relied,... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=41175&title=traffic-camera-ban#41175 Author: acclaro
Subject: 5385
Posted: Feb 26 2014 at 11:22am

The argument the judges relied, is the lack and denial of due process.

Middletown's system is just as bad on the red light cameras. If one goes through them, you get a ticket. You are sent a regular mailed notice, not constructive notice, with a short period to contest, which I recall is 10 days. After that, you have by Middletown ordinance, lost your right to appeal. What if the mail doesn't deliver it? What if you are on vacation for a week and don't get it and respond in 10 days. What if another is driving without your knowledge? I had a landscaper I do occasionally use my auto to run for Lowe's when doing house work, who denied driving. If you can't identify the culprit, you are guilty. Some due process. More like a kangaroo system of justice.

Here's how you handle Middletown. Don't pay the fine unless it is blatant. In time, a collection group tries to bribe you for paying a bill which they have no proof as to who drove the vehicle, by threatening your credit report.

You call that credit reporting agency and threaten to sue them if they put on a negative notation. They won't put it on your credit report, and that's the end of it.

My son got one on a light he went through where the middle of the intersection was a turn on red. Didn't pay it, told the authorities in the city as to WHY, and told Penn Collection Systems they'd be sued if they put on a credit report notation $ owed. They did not, and it was the end.

These are nothing but revenue makers. I have stated many times, the worst intersections are on Breihel and Rosedale. Kids and others run that light daily, going 60 mph. Constitutionally illegal. Any state representative that votes aginst these should be voted OUT of office. Believe its in the State Senate's hands now, passed state representatives.   
]]> Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:22:18 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=41175&title=traffic-camera-ban#41175 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : Today's Journal....Judge... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=41174&title=traffic-camera-ban#41174 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5385
Posted: Feb 26 2014 at 10:40am

Today's Journal....

Judge orders New Miami to stop using speed cameras

HAMILTON —
Butler County Common Pleas Judge Michael Sage ruled Tuesday that the village of New Miami must stop using its speed cameras, effective immediately.

Sage said he had concerns about the administrative hearing process that the village was using to allow motorists who protest or appeal liability tickets.

“I have great concerns about due process in this case,” Sage said, noting at the heart of due process is the right to have a hearing conducted by a neutral administrator, not one appointed by the police.

“They (drivers) are almost presumed guilty before found guilty.”

New Miami’s attorneys argued Sage should issue a stay in the case until after the Ohio Supreme Court disposed of a similar, pending case from the city of Toledo.

Sage asked questions and listened to more than two hours of arguments from both village attorneys and attorneys for the four motorists who filed a lawsuit against New Miami in July. Extensive motions and arguments submitted from both sides were also considered by the judge.

The village had asked Sage to dismiss the lawsuit, but instead the judge granted the case class-action status, meaning thousands of other motorists who have been cited could join on and seek a legal remedy.

New Miami has collected more than $1 million in revenue from 10,000 drivers since deploying the mobile cameras 15 months ago. Sage did not rule today on whether the village would have to repay the money to those cited.

Sage’s decision comes not long after the decision by a Hamilton County judge who pulled the plug on speed cameras in the village of Elmwood Place. Sage referred to the procedure for automated speed enforcement in both the villages as “almost identical.”

Joshua Engel, attorney for one of the plaintiffs, told the judge, “We are not saying they (cameras) are bad; what we are saying is people have to be given the opportunity to defend themselves.”

The attorney also said administrative hearings permit hearsay statements and don’t permit people to request documents to test those statements, such as proof about the calibration of the speed cameras themselves.

While people had the right to appeal the outcome of an administrative hearing, Engel pointed out they had to make a $315 filing in order to get due process for a $95 ticket.

Most will not pay the money or make the effort, which means the village wins, he said.

“They (the village) are counting on that,” Engel said.

Wilson Weisenfelder Jr., one of two attorneys representing New Miami, argued “what is due process in a criminal matter is not necessarily the same in an administrative hearing.”

Additionally, the rules of civil procedures do not apply in an administrative hearing, Weisenfelder said.

While the camera’s are a money-maker for the village, which gets 60 percent of the amount and the company that operates the equipment the remaining 40 percent, Weisenfelder said the cameras are more efficient in maintaining the village’s speed limit while freeing up officers for other duties.

Sage made it clear that he would revisit his decision if New Miami changed the administrative hearing process.

Attorneys for the village told the Journal-News they would be appealing ruling.

FIRST ELMWOOD PLACE AND NOW NEW MIAMI. LOOKS LIKE A PATTERN IS DEVELOPING HERE. THINK WE COULD GET A CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST THE CITY OF MIDDLETOWN AND GET THESE CAMERAS THROWN OUT OF HERE? ]]> Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:40:02 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=41174&title=traffic-camera-ban#41174 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : I hope they get rid of everyone... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=39049&title=traffic-camera-ban#39049 Author: LMAO
Subject: 5385
Posted: Aug 05 2013 at 1:17pm

I hope they get rid of everyone of them.It just gives are "Spineless Ones" another way to screw us taxpayers.I know if I ever get a ticket I would fight it. ]]> Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:17:56 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=39049&title=traffic-camera-ban#39049 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : I'm sort of split on this... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=39024&title=traffic-camera-ban#39024 Author: Historic House Guy
Subject: 5385
Posted: Aug 04 2013 at 3:04pm

I'm sort of split on this camera thing. On one hand it shows who's at fault in an accident. That's a good thing for the person not at fault. On the other, it is big brother / Orwellian style (something to be concerned about). 

The revenue the city will lose is a pretty big deal and let's face it, if you blow a red light it's not a very safe proposition.

I'm pretty sure ticketing from these red light camera's will be unlawful in the state of Ohio but don't expect them to come down and don't expect them to not be used. Big brother is here to stay (or at least they intend to)  
]]> Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:04:20 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=39024&title=traffic-camera-ban#39024 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : I am with u on the big btother... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38821&title=traffic-camera-ban#38821 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 5:25pm

I am with u on the big btother aspect, and the LAST thing to worry about is their alleged reason for use.
We are finding out every day how everyone is watching everything that we do, say, own, where we go, how we spend etc.....

cameras make most people stop correctly at intersections
bad drivers will be bad drivers regardless
might as well cost them $$ instead of us
]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 17:25:45 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38821&title=traffic-camera-ban#38821 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : One thing for sure Spider. Never... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38820&title=traffic-camera-ban#38820 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 4:59pm

One thing for sure Spider. Never have been a fan of red light cameras. That's been a constant. Too much Big Brother (and I know I've said that several times). Same with seat belts. None of their business what I do in my personal car as related to my safety. My life/my car, not theirs. Cameras monitoring your activity? Can't say as I like it. Again, don't need government hacks looking over my shoulder. We've all seen what too much government intrusion in one's life does to society. Little things like seat belts and red light cameras are just the beginning if we let it stand. JMO]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:59:14 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38820&title=traffic-camera-ban#38820 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : spiderjohn wrote:hey vet--u... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38819&title=traffic-camera-ban#38819 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 4:47pm

Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:



hey vet--u r talking out of both sides of yer mouth maybe
 
b4, u always said that the cameras caused more accidents than they prevented, and that they did not deter bad driving
 
now u say that if they r removed from dangerous intersections, bad driving habits will resume
which is it?


CAMERAS MAY CAUSE MORE ACCIDENTS AS DRIVERS MAY SPEED UP TO MAKE IT THROUGH TO BEAT THE CAMERA FROM CLICKING. SEVERAL POSTERS HAVE SAID THAT.

I SAID IN MY POST, IF THE CAMERAS ARE REMOVED, AND THE PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE NO LONGER THERE, WILL IT GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE THE CAMERAS WERE INSTALLED, AND,IF SO, WHAT HAVE THEY ACCOMPLISHED.

ARE THESE TWO STATEMENTS TALKING OUT BOTH SIDES OF MY MOUTH OR ARE THEY TOTALLY SEPARATE IN NATURE? THE ONE STATEMENT INVOLVES CAMERAS AND BAD DRIVING BY AVOIDANCE IN A TICKET BY SPEEDING UP. THE OTHER STATEMENT INVOLVES NO CAMERAS AND ASKING WILL THE BAD DRIVING CONTINUE AFTER THEY ARE REMOVED. DUNNO SPIDER]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:47:23 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38819&title=traffic-camera-ban#38819 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : hey vet--u r talking out of... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38818&title=traffic-camera-ban#38818 Author: spiderjohn
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 4:34pm

hey vet--u r talking out of both sides of yer mouth maybe
 
b4, u always said that the cameras caused more accidents than they prevented, and that they did not deter bad driving
 
now u say that if they r removed from dangerous intersections, bad driving habits will resume
which is it?
]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:34:11 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38818&title=traffic-camera-ban#38818 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : HOFFMAN: “We’ve found some... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38816&title=traffic-camera-ban#38816 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 4:23pm

HOFFMAN: “We’ve found some intersections have a lot of accidents, but they don’t have the violations,” said Hoffman. “We always figure it’s something else. It’s given us a chance at some of these places to correct some engineering deficiencies there.”

ANYONE SEEN ANY ENGINEERING CHANGES TO ANY OF THE INTERSECTIONS OCCUPIED BY THESE CAMERAS?

HOFFMAN: Hoffman said the red light cameras have benefited Middletown in more ways than just putting money in the city’s coffers.

“When we put a camera up in a new location, we’ll see a spike in violations. Then we’ll see fewer and fewer violations as time goes on,” he said.:

BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MOVE THE LOCATIONS OF THE CAMERAS AND PEOPLE NOW KNOW THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DEACTIVATED AT A PARTICULAR INTERSECTION? THINK THE RED LIGHT RUNNING AND SPEEDING THROUGH THE RED LIGHT PICKS BACK UP? PEOPLE WILL PLAY THE GAME WHEN THEY KNOW THE CAMERAS ARE WATCHING. BUT WHEN YOU REMOVE THE CAMERAS, AND ANNOUNCE THE NEW LOCATION, IT'S BACK TO WHERE IT WAS BEFORE. IF THIS IS TRUE, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE....ONLY TEMPORARILY SOLVED THE PROBLEM AT THE PREVIOUS LOCATION, RIGHT?

HOFFMAN: We’re pretty limited,” he said. “We’re taking technology and we’re using it in a smart way to enforce traffic regulations and to make the streets safer.(AND TO GENERATE MONEY..DON'T FORGET THAT) The people that are arguing against a well-run program like ours are really arguing for less safe streets.”

"ARGUING FOR LESS SAFE STREETS"? DID HE JUST SAY THAT? AND WHO WOULD WANT THAT MAJOR?

MAKE THE YELLOW LIGHT LONGER AND THERE WON'T BE THE NEED FOR YOUR RED LIGHT CAMERAS. IT WILL ACTUALLY ALLOW THE CAR TO CLEAR THE INTERSECTION BEFORE THE OPPOSING TRAFFIC STARTS. ]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:23:17 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38816&title=traffic-camera-ban#38816 TRAFFIC CAMERA BAN : Middletucky will be in deep Sh*t... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38815&title=traffic-camera-ban#38815 Author: LMAO
Subject: 5385
Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 3:03pm

Middletucky will be in deep Sh*t if they have to take camera's down.LOL They won't have money for are "SPINELESS Ones" pet projects.LOL]]> Sun, 28 Jul 2013 15:03:13 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5385&PID=38815&title=traffic-camera-ban#38815