Middletown Forum : Bond Issue http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : School Tax Issues : Bond Issue Mon, 05 Oct 2026 18:55:02 +0000 Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:27:38 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=5402 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Bond Issue : Not ALL school districts nor states... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40920&title=bond-issue#40920 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 24 2014 at 6:27am

Not ALL school districts nor states handle the aging of the schools in the same manner......

Saw a segment on the evening news the other day concerning the condition of a 100 year old school in New Jersey. The presenters interviewed some teachers and administrators of this school as they were showing the viewer the poor conditions that the students were required to endure. Each time the boys bathroom was used, water would drip through the ceiling into another classroom below. Everytime it would rain, or the snow would start to melt on the roof, the water cascaded down the stairwell and the students named the stairwell the "waterfall" as they traveled up and down the stairs to classes. There were buckets in each classroom to accomodate the leaks. There were dead rats in the walls that produced a foul odor. The records room had an odor due to the mold. Holes in walls. There was abundant mold in the discolored walls. The school appeared to have many more issues than Vail. There were uncovered electrical switches and the school would certainly meet the "let's build all new schools" crowd criteria for tearing it down.....


BUT WAIT.....

The story also featured Gov. Christy and his newly appointed staff member, who was apparently charged with solving this problem, who stated that they will hire contractors to fix the mold, fix the electrics, fix the leaks.....whatever it took to bring the school up to the proper condition for learning.

Just wonder why Gov. Christy's administration would salvage this 100 year old school, in much worse shape than Middletown's Vail school, and the local contingent of "if it's over 40 years old, we gotta tear it down because a new school means better results" people have such different views of what creates success. Someone is wrong. Is all of this "build it new because it will enhance our image, performance and property values" theme really the issue here?.....or is it that the school people just want to come to work with the latest and greatest in school features and have a nice fresh work environment to enjoy while breaking the taxpayer's back. Used is not good enough for some perhaps? Everythng gotta be new to some?]]> Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:27:38 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40920&title=bond-issue#40920 Bond Issue : I would like to point out that... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40855&title=bond-issue#40855 Author: ktf1179
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 2:41pm

I would like to point out that Springboro High School's Pipes burst during the last deep freeze and that school in only under 20 years old. So the age of the school has nothing to do with it.
]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:41:48 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40855&title=bond-issue#40855 Bond Issue : Comments If you would... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40854&title=bond-issue#40854 Author: acclaro
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 1:35pm

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8 Comment(s)
Comment(s) 1-8 of 8
angrydogs avatar

Will say and do anything for more more money. How pathetic the little piggies are!

DaleV003s avatar

Here we go again... You know, why don't we all run our households like the schools! Let's say your house was built in the 50's or before... Maybe the foundation has some cracks and the siding looks bad. Maybe the plaster is falling down because of the leak in the roof you forgot to fix... Well, don't bother fixing it up! Just tear it down and rebuild. Especially if your relative (the State) is giving you a nice big check to help pay for it... Does this sound reasonable? Of course not. I don't tear down my house just because it needs repairs. I fix it up and keep up on it. I don't have the same furnace it had when it was new. Take care of the buildings you got and they will last as long as you want them to. But if you fail to maintain them, then you can use that as an excuse to build new ones. That's what this sounds like to me. Regular maintenance prevents a lot of issues to buildings. But, I guess if you want 2 or 3 new buildings, you just set the heat a little low when we have sub-zero temperatures... "Yeah, that'll make them voters wish they wouldn't have voted down the levy!"

UncleAndy2s avatar

Nice pro-levy propaganda piece, J-N. You stay classy.

The question the J-N didn't ask is, why have these schools turned into money pits? How can many private and public entities, businesses, charities, museums, schools, and even residences that are much older than the schools in question, be operated by their wners without turning into money pits like these Fairfield School District locations?

How can Miami and UC operate buildings that are over 100 years old, and not allow them to turn into money pits?

The ugly plain truth is that Fairfield City Schools are an incompetent bunch of racketeers who have either purposefully allowed the buildings to go to pot, or through incompetence have not been able to properly care for the buildings. In either case, more taxes are not justified. We will not reward graft or incompetence with more of our money.

GoofyJims avatar

What a joke, It is funny there are other schools that are older and had no problems what so ever. This is just a ploy to get a new building built. Please tell me why this should be done when they obviously did not do the maintenance on these buildings and why should we expect any different with new schools.

benonis avatar

Why can buildings in Europe still be in use after 300+ years? They were built to last. Buildings in question were only built to last 50-60 years. Why?? Property values keep dropping and taxes keep raising. There isn't a building in the MCSD built to last except the old MHS and they want to tear it down. NO YES from me.

RogerOs avatar

Get out and vote NO people the union and their people will be there you can count on that.

Hold_On_A_Secs avatar

Trust me - a levy will pass due to the apathy of the voters. The voter's that complain the loudest NEVER vote or they feel like what's the point. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

1425s avatar

Isn't it funny that all of the sudden ( after a new levy was announced) the Fairfield Schools have fallen in such bad shape. What a crock of bull. People need to get off their butts and vote. Remember this folks. You paid to build a new High School then had to pay again to maintain it.

8 Comment(s)
Comment(s) 1-8 of 8
]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:35:57 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40854&title=bond-issue#40854 Bond Issue : processor, I concur with the... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40853&title=bond-issue#40853 Author: acclaro
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 1:08pm

processor, I concur with the 'non argument' position.
It simply takes visibility away from a credible argument.
 
Akin to arguing roads should be repaved every year or so, than patched. If one lives in a cold region, brutally cold weather causes additional stress. Roads have to be filled after a winter. 
 
The Journal is not doing either district a favor from such articles.   
 ]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:08:30 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40853&title=bond-issue#40853 Bond Issue : Acclaro,I think that we&#039;ve... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40851&title=bond-issue#40851 Author: processor
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 12:34pm

Acclaro,
I think that we've come to different conclusions regarding the need for a re-habbed high school and a new middle school, but I totally agree that just because pipes break when the weather gets cold and that it's hard to regulate the heat in some buildings when it's extremely cold, is not a valid reason to go forward with the project. The Journal is insulting our intelligence with this non-argument and, I think, not helping with the valid arguments for going through with the project.]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 12:34:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40851&title=bond-issue#40851 Bond Issue : The Journal is a complete... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40850&title=bond-issue#40850 Author: acclaro
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 11:53am

The Journal is a complete joke. The only information they print is public info; court records, crime, all data they can pull from public records, no investigative analysis.
Just last week, they had an article about the state of art capabilities Miami U at Oxford had where they use applications to monitor pipes, et al, to mitigate damage.
 
The point being Journal fans and school building supporters: When it is -10 below 0, pipes break, and its a stressor on ANY system, regardless.
Quit wasting our time on meaningless nonsense. We get it....it was cold, pipes burst, the furnace runs to keep a room 65 degrees. It doesn't take a PhD from MIT to 'get that.'
I suggest we all move to a warmer climate.   ]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 11:53:57 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40850&title=bond-issue#40850 Bond Issue : WELL ALRIGHT!!! ANOTHER ATTEMPT... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40849&title=bond-issue#40849 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5402
Posted: Jan 14 2014 at 11:06am

WELL ALRIGHT!!! ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO SOFTEN YOUR HEART AND STEAL YOUR WALLET.....JOURNAL STORY-

School district’s older buildings become money pits

BUTLER COUNTY —
The recent cold snap that swept through Butler County tested the older school buildings in Middletown and Fairfield, some of which failed with frozen pipes and busted boilers, requiring costly repairs.

School officials say the fact that those buildings buckled under the stress of record-low temperatures is just one more example of why they need to be replaced.

Both Fairfield and Middletown tried and failed to pass bond issues in November to build new schools, and both are trying the ballot again in May. Officials in both districts argue that it would be cheaper and wiser for voters to approve these tax measures — a collective $120 million — than to continue to spend their tax dollars trying to patch up buildings nearly 100 years old.

“Systems designed to last 50 to 60 years are now being expanded out to the 90-year mark. They are well past their life expectancy, thus making them very hard to maintain,” said George Long, business manager for Middletown City Schools.

The recent cold weather brought with it a host of maintenance problems for Fairfield and Middletown schools.

Pipes burst at Middletown High School, Fairfield High School and at Fairfield’s Options Academy, which forced that venue to close for a day last week, school officials said. Tom Weiser, the director of business operations for Fairfield City Schools, said insurance deductibles are $5,000 per incident, and the district’s premiums have already risen $32,000 this school year, due to a high number of claims.

“I didn’t have a single problem at any of my new buildings or at the renovated elementary buildings,” Long said of the recent weather. “At the high school, though, we experienced nine pipe freezes.

“We put temporary heat in four of the classrooms at the high school because the ventilators that came with the building are now so rusted that we can’t simply go in and make easy repairs,” he said. “We have to either rebuild the custom parts within those units, because we can’t get parts for them anymore, or we have to replace the whole unit.”

Middletown schools is asking voters to pass a $55 million bond issue to build a new middle school and renovate the high school. It would cost the owner of a $100,000 home $147 a year in additional taxes. Meanwhile, Fairfield schools is seeking approval of a $65 million bond issue that would build three new school and cost the owner of a $100,000 an extra $91 a year in property taxes.

Middletown officials say it would cost less to build a new middle school than to make repeated repairs to Vail, which was built in 1923. For example, Long said putting a new roof on Vail — an expense not yet planned — would cost $900,000. And while frozen pipes aren’t as big of a concern at Vail, the steam heat the building uses creates another set of problems.

“We can’t regulate the heat,” Long said. “It’s like your grandmother’s old house with radiators in it; you were either roasting or it was cold.”

Meanwhile, Fairfield officials say they would have to spend $5 million a year in maintenance costs just to keep its oldest buildings — Central Elementary, built in 1929, and the Freshman School — in usable condition.

A recent sign of Central Elementary’s building wear reared its head when the boiler broke down in December while students were still in school.

“That eight-inch header (that goes into both boilers) had actually rusted through. We had to have a contractor come in and cut out roughly a five-foot header and then weld in a new section of that header,” said Weiser. “That’s something that has just occurred over years and years of aging — the corrosion that takes place with steel.”

The other major problem at Central has been the steam lines in the walls and under the floors. Those corrode to the point where they leak steam, Weiser said.

“Once you have live steam escaping those pipes, it creates issues. We’ve had it dissolve plaster because of all the moisture. It can lead to mold,” he said.

While Central is not quite as old as Vail, Fairfield has another aging building: the Fairfield Freshman School right next to Central on Dixie Highway. The 63-year-old building has its own share of problems, Weiser said, such as deteriorating brick and mortar on the exterior.

“If we don’t pass the bond passed, we will have to spend $5 million just to get (Central and Freshman) in a very usable state,” Weiser said. “When we get done spending that $5 million, it doesn’t look any different. It’s going to be the same buildings. That’s not even replacing the boilers.”

If Fairfield and Middletown don’t pass their latest bond issues, they will lose state funding to help pay for the cost of the new building construction, officials have said. For Middletown, the state is contributing $40 million; for Fairfield, that total is $19 million.

Opponents of Fairfield and Middletown’s bond issues did not return calls seeking comment Monday. (WONDER IF THEY EVEN ASKED ANYONE WHO IS OPPOSED?)

I DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE 6 COMMENTS AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE. KINDA SAYS IT ALL. I DO KNOW THAT DUKE, YALE, HARVARD AND PRINCETON UNIVERSITES, ALONG WITH THE NAVAL ACADEMY AND WEST POINT, ARE ALL CONSIDERING TEARING DOWN THEIR BUILDINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE OLDER THAN 50 OR 60 YEARS OLD. LOOKS LIKE THE MIDD./FAIRFIELD SCHOOLS FAILED TO DEVELOP A PLAN ON A PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE PROGRAM ALL THIS TIME, RELYING ON THE TAXPAYER TO REPLACE THEIR BUILDINGS ONCE THEY START COSTING MONEY TO MAINTAIN. GUESS THEY THINK WE HAVE A CONSTANT MONEY OVERLOAD AND CAN PAY ON DEMAND. IN MIDDLETOWN, IT'S ONLY AN INCREASE OF $147 BUCKS FOR A $100,000 HOME ON THE OLD PROPERTY TAXES. I KNOW THAT WON"T BE A PROBLEM FOR THOSE HOMEOWNERS ON A LIMITED INCOME, EATING BAR K HOTDOGS AND LIVING IN AN IMPOVERISHED TOWN......OR WILL IT?    .....BUT THEN, WE ALL KNOW THE NEW SCHOOL ADVOCATES DON'T CARE ABOUT SUCH THINGS, DO THEY. ]]> Tue, 14 Jan 2014 11:06:03 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=40849&title=bond-issue#40849 Bond Issue : Ms. Andrew:&#034;However, since... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39948&title=bond-issue#39948 Author: VietVet
Subject: 5402
Posted: Oct 22 2013 at 12:43pm

Ms. Andrew:

"However, since you brought it up -- your $400/day number is wrong. $400 x 185 days would be $74,000, and the only teachers who make that much are a small handful who have a Ph.D (doctorate) degree and 25 years or more experience teaching. The starting salary for teachers in Middletown is somewhere around $34,000 (which is at the low end of the going rate in other school districts in the region). The top pay for teachers with a Masters but not a Ph.D and 25 years experience is about $65,000"

Ok, let's say 65 thou for 185 days of work....

That's $351. per day, wages your average Joe would kill for and never see in their lifetime. Provides a very nice living. Most outside the academic world work more days per year than 185. Year around actually. No three month break. How many of those 185 days are taken as sick, vacation or personal days? How many holidays/off the job conferences are included in that 185 day count? Gotta take that off the total which elevates the pay per day on the job amount as each day not on the job ups the salaried money pot.

Regardless of how this all breaks out, the fact is, when all people outside the academic world are working during the summer months, the teachers, admin and other school personnel are enjoying those summer trips, working in the yard or getting that sun tan while the world works away. That counts too, Ms. Andrew. I know, I have two teachers within a few houses in my neighborhood and I have seen their summer itinerary.

Oh, and the starting salary for teachers in the Midd. school system is $34 thou. which, as you state, is "at the lower end of the other school districts in the region".........but, Ms. Andrew.....no one is holding a gun to their head to accept that job at that salary. Plenty of other states with numerous school districts, that may offer better opportunities to start. If they accept the job, they shouldn't complain about the pay. It's not like Middletown is the only game in town.

And the pay increase out of the old paycheck for benefit premiums? The private sector has been doing this for years and is a common practice with most companies. Your education people are not enduring anything any other worker is not encountering today. ]]> Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:43:45 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39948&title=bond-issue#39948 Bond Issue : Miss Kitty, the bond issue... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39943&title=bond-issue#39943 Author: Marcia Andrew
Subject: 5402
Posted: Oct 22 2013 at 10:56am

Miss Kitty, the bond issue on the ballot is to raise money to build and maintain school buildings.  That money cannot be used for teacher salaries, which come out of the general fund.  So, the issue you are asked to vote on this November has nothing to do with teacher salaries.
 
However, since you brought it up -- your $400/day number is wrong.  $400 x 185 days would be $74,000, and the only teachers who make that much are a small handful who have a Ph.D (doctorate) degree and 25 years or more experience teaching.  The starting salary for teachers in Middletown is somewhere around $34,000 (which is at the low end of the going rate in other school districts in the region).  The top pay for teachers with a Masters but not a Ph.D and 25 years experience is about $65,000.  Also, while the students are in school 185 days, teachers report to work several days before school starts and stay several days later, so about 190 days.  $34,000 divided by 190 is $179, less than half of what you claim.
 
Itsamee, principals and Central Office administrators make more than teachers for a number of reasons.  Principals work several more weeks each year than teachers, have advanced degrees and licensing from the state, and are responsible for supervising all of the teachers in the building.  Central Office administrators work year-round, have advanced degrees and licensing, and are responsible for functions and departments district-wide.  It is pretty fundamental that managers make more than front-line employees, whether it is manufacturing, sales, retail, etc. 
 
ALL employees in the Middletown Schools (including administrators) took two 1% pay reductions in the past 3 years, and at the same time their contribution to health insurance premiums doubled from 10% to 20%.  Lots of school districts in the state negotiated pay freezes, but I am not aware of any others where the unions agreed to actual pay cuts.  This was necessary for MIddletown to get its budget in line with reduced revenue, and it shows how dedicated our teachers and support staff are.
]]> Tue, 22 Oct 2013 10:56:33 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39943&title=bond-issue#39943 Bond Issue : So lets see, don&#039;t spend... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39927&title=bond-issue#39927 Author: Historic House Guy
Subject: 5402
Posted: Oct 21 2013 at 4:23pm

So lets see, don't spend the money so kids can take their books home and study or do homework, but instead, build a new school... Yeah, that should work! Stern Smile

Idiots, glad we got our kids out of that school.
]]> Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:23:17 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5402&PID=39927&title=bond-issue#39927