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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER :   spiderjohn wrote:OK--we lose...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43577&amp;title=staff-turnover#43577</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;13&nbsp;2014 at 5:58am<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by spiderjohn" alt="Originally posted by spiderjohn" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>spiderjohn wrote:</strong><br /><br />OK--we lose "old school" teachers with bigger salaries/bennies/tenure to be replaced by younger entry-level lower salary/new tier bennies who grow in to the system along with new buildings, bringing new/younger thinking to children.<br /><br />Maybe we trim "old school" high $$/tenured admin also--combining responsibilities and moving younger minds in to admin.<br /><br />We become a new/progressive energetic system<br /><br />What is wrong with this thinking?<br /><br /></td></tr></table> <br /><br />Not a thing wrong with this thinking Spider, UNLESS, the newer, younger admin/teachers retain the same old thinking, stay with the historically failing current mode of operation in place and keep the performance bar in the same place. I believe we have a problem if that were to happen. <br /><br />I like the new progressive energetic system idea. I hope that it will occur at some point in time. As it is now, we have had personnel in place for many years and have seen little to no improvement with stagnation as the accepted goal. Time for a transition from the old guard to a new mindset. Gotta get people on the school board who will foster a change. Tyus, McNeil and the other tenured school board members have run their course and repeatively stay with the same old failed format. The school board is a complacent group.....much like council as to the introduction of new, logical plans for direction.  ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 05:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : OK--we lose &amp;#034;old school&amp;#034;...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43575&amp;title=staff-turnover#43575</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18">spiderjohn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;12&nbsp;2014 at 7:31pm<br /><br />OK--we lose "old school" teachers with bigger salaries/bennies/tenure to be replaced by younger entry-level lower salary/new tier bennies who grow in to the system along with new buildings, bringing new/younger thinking to children.<br /><br />Maybe we trim "old school" high $$/tenured admin also--combining responsibilities and moving younger minds in to admin.<br /><br />We become a new/progressive energetic system<br /><br />What is wrong with this thinking?<br /><br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : &amp;#034;Just wondering.....since...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43571&amp;title=staff-turnover#43571</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1405">itsamee</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;12&nbsp;2014 at 1:27pm<br /><br />"<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Just wondering.....since this happens, apparently on a recurring basis, why haven't the schools banded together, scheduled a meeting with the Gov. and the state legislature and told the source of the problems about the problems they are creating locally?"&nbsp;</span><div><br></div><div>A couple things, and I forgot to mention, is that some of this comes from the federal level as well (remember <i>No Child Left Behind</i>?). I think Strikland did the most damage with his programs, and he did it hoping to get more votes. "Ohio schools are failing! We must do all of these things to make it more rigid! We have no money to do it....so we will charge the schools for it!"&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Paying people more to get good people isn't always the case. Sometimes ya just don't get what you pay for in a negative context. Sometimes poor performers miraculously work their way to the top with surface fluff rather than actual talent and content and demand high salaries for doing so."&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;">I 100% agree, and that was my gist. &nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;">As for some of your points toward the end, some of those people are paid via grants to do whatever it is they do. As for others, yes, they are almost a waste of space, resources, and money.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.4; : rgb251, 251, 253;">I would argue along with you that the Board needs an overhaul.&nbsp;</span></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : Assuming itsamee&amp;#039;s info....</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43570&amp;title=staff-turnover#43570</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;12&nbsp;2014 at 12:41pm<br /><br />Assuming itsamee's info. is correct.......<br /><br />Problem One:<br />itsa mentions that the schools pass a levy based on current requirements both locally and at the state level, burdening the property owner in the process. Itsamee then brings to our attention that the state sometimes changes the ballgame requiring more funds after a levy has been passed. <br /><br />Just wondering.....since this happens, apparently on a recurring basis, why haven't the schools banded together, scheduled a meeting with the Gov. and the state legislature and told the source of the problems about the problems they are creating locally? Haven't read a story where the schools have taken a pro-active role in problem solving on this, starting with a trip to Columbus, and seem to want to complain and "live with the problem' blaming the state politicians for all of the problems. If ya don't do something, things are guaranteed to stay the same. Get in the car and go north on I-71. The statehouse is downtown.<br /><br />Problem Two:<br />itsa states districts are top heavy. Some of us have been seeing and saying this for years, yet school districts seem to continue to create asst principles, directors of curriculum, directors of learning, directors/assist. of this and directors/assist. of that, incurring large salaries for apparently no reason. Top heavy indeed.<br /><br />itsa:<br /> "I understand that you need to pay out more to get good people, but I do not think that is always what happens"<br /><br />Paying people more to get good people isn't always the case. Sometimes ya just don't get what you pay for in a negative context. Sometimes poor performers miraculously work their way to the top with surface fluff rather than actual talent and content and demand high salaries for doing so. Look no further than Steve Price for an example. The man was all show and no go. <br /><br />Problem Three:<br /><br />The worker bees always take the hit at downsizing time. Has been said many times.....you can cut one director and save 3 or 4 workers......and still cover the directors day to day job responsibilites by portioning out the duties to the remaining directors kept. Hell. it might generate real work for them instead of attending endless meetings every day, producing little to no results. <br /><br />The lower position people always get the shaft when the cuts begin. <br /><br />Problem Four:<br />  "the administration is full of people who seem afraid to make an actual change to the way things are"<br /><br />It would appear it is all in the family between the admin.,the school board and the others within the academic community. None want to put forth a real effort to totally gut a disfunctional, non-producing, poor performing school system and retool with new people with new ideas that actually care about the overall outcome as to positive progress. Perfectly content to stay in the continuous improvement level until the end of time, and, in Middletown, don't have to worry about citizen pressure to change. Like dealing with the antics of council and the city leaders and demanding some city building firings while electing competent people on council, the people of Middletown are apathetic toward the school board, the school district and the lousy results they keep producing.....for decades. Nothing short of a complete gutting of council and the school board and the subsequent firing of city leaders and school administration will change a thing around here. Gotta have people running the city and the schools who want more than complacency and are just in survival mode to make a difference now. Fresh faces......fresh thinking....logical people, logical thinking. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : What about the fact that the way...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1299">over the hill</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;12&nbsp;2014 at 10:12am<br /><br />What about the fact that the way we fund our Ohio schools is unconstitutional. No one seems to want to tackle that situation either. Any other business declared unconstitutional would be put out of business. We continue on this path for decades and no one wants to change it.  Why? ]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : Neil,That was a levy designed...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43567&amp;title=staff-turnover#43567</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1405">itsamee</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;12&nbsp;2014 at 8:15am<br /><br />Neil,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>That was a levy designed to make temporary tax revenue permanent. That levy basically provided funds at the districts current levels back in what, 2009?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>Full disclosure: I worked for a contractor at Middletown Schools for a number of years. Before then, I did similar work at other districts in Ohio.&nbsp;<br><br></b></div><div>I am not taking sides here. I am going to try and present simple facts about school districts in Ohio, so hear me out and please understand I want to present a whole picture. &nbsp;Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div><b>Problem One:&nbsp;</b>I think we can all agree that it is unfair for both schools and tax payers the way schools in Ohio get their primary funding (local property taxes). This starts a cycle where schools need to rely on the dollars of those who own property in their region. &nbsp;Meaning, home owners share the bulk of the responsibility for paying for kids education. &nbsp;The BIGGEST problem with this method is, the schools do not get an inflation adjustment unless they go to another levy. So, think about this:</div><div>School District A passes a levy in 2010 to generate an additional $10 million a year to run schools. It actually costs the district $15 million a year to run, but other monies from the state help make up the difference. &nbsp;</div><div>District A is now told they have more requirements and must pay for testing materials, technology upgrades (some are state-mandated) and hire additional staff to fulfill more roles. &nbsp;Add inflation to this and it now costs $20 million a year to run the district. Now, in 2014, they have to go back to the voters because they have a $5 million hole to fill that is beyond their control. &nbsp;</div><div>The state refuses to pay for many of the things they force school districts to implement.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>Problem two: </b>Districts are top-heavy. &nbsp;While I have no problem with someone making six figures, it does seem districts could save money by evaluating the top earners pay scale. In 2013 there were four people making more than six figures, and 18 people making $80-$99k a year.&nbsp;</div><div>I understand that you need to pay out more to get good people, but I do not think that is always what happens. I would be in favor of caps on payout (maybe based on enrollment) to curb this. If you take an average salary of say, $90,000 among the above 22 people, you will see their are almost 2 million (1.98 million) in salaries going out to a smaller group (as of 2013). If you knocked their pay down by even 10%, you would have $198,000, or, enough money to hire 4 teachers at $49,500 / year. Meanwhile, those 22 people are still making more than the average Middletown resident, and even more than the average Ohio resident. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>Problem three: </b>Instead of cutting at the top, the bulk of cuts to save money are at the bottom. &nbsp;Sure, last time around the administration took the same 1% pay cut as everyone else, but teachers and staff took the brunt of the unemployment. &nbsp;Ratios in classrooms are maxed out (meaning the number of kids to teachers per grade level is high) which hurts education. Remember those teachers we could have hired had we cut the admin pay 10%? &nbsp;This could help this problem as well. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>What I saw at MCSD</b>. &nbsp;I saw many great teachers. But I saw many more getting screwed out of money and positions at every turn. &nbsp;To save money, health benefits were cut or costs were raised. Pay was cut, and jobs were cut. Things got outsourced to places that couldn't care less (once Sodexo took over the custodial staff, things got pretty bad).&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Many teachers wanted to leave due to not being able to keep up with the costs of living and constantly having to give up more pay to work there. I saw four great teachers go to other districts simply because they knew they would not endure another pay cut the next year.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><b>Problem four: </b>The board and administration seem like a money pit in themselves. During my time there, I found out many administrators had two computers and an iPad. Why? How connected should one person be? The Board, which we elected, also had brand new laptops, while teachers had 6 year old computers. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Just my two cents, funding is deeply flawed, the administration is full of people who seem afraid to make an actual change to the way things are. While these problems persist, there will be problems. &nbsp;Things really do need to change. And part of the change needs to come from Columbus (Ted Strickland really put districts behind the 8 ball), and others need to change at the local level. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : Didn&amp;#039;t the district geta...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=645">Neil Barille</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;11&nbsp;2014 at 4:18pm<br /><br /><P>Didn't the district get&nbsp;a continuing operating levy a few years ago that has no expiration?&nbsp; This would seem to provide a continual source of operating funds without the need to pass another levy every few years.&nbsp; Whether at some point in the future an increase is needed on top of that is another story.&nbsp; So wouldn't this seem to mean the district is relatively stable financially?</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : I don&amp;#039;t know specifically...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5830&amp;PID=43558&amp;title=staff-turnover#43558</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1408">processor</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;11&nbsp;2014 at 2:32pm<br /><br />I don't know specifically why the teachers in Middletown are retiring, but there will be a change in the teacher pension calculation that favors teachers retiring now.  Teacher turnover is not limited to Middletown.  It's happening state wide due to the change in the pension calculation.  My guess is that this is the impetus for many of the retirements and NOT some of the theories advocated above.]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER :   itsamee wrote:Neil and Vet,&#194;&#160;Have...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;11&nbsp;2014 at 11:37am<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by itsamee" alt="Originally posted by itsamee" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>itsamee wrote:</strong><br /><br />Neil and Vet, <div><br /></div><div>Have either of you considered that it is mostly monetary?  Most teachers hired in over the last couple years took a pay cut after their first year, others had pay frozen.  With funding cuts everywhere, some teachers have to risk being unemployed and laid off if things go crazy.  I, like many others, would leave if I could get into a more financially stable district. </div><div><br /></div><div>Or at least one that didn't give me a 1-2% pay cut after the first year.  </div></td></tr></table> <br /><br /><br />OR, OPTION 2.....to eliminate the possibility of being unemployed, as you state, and considering your post above as you weigh your uncertainty in the vocation as a teacher, rather than wait for a downsizing or taking multiple years of pay cuts in this or any other district, you do have an option of pursuing another career in communications, perhaps a managers job in manufacturing (Neaton Auto hires many former teachers and incorporates them into their manufacturing operation as managers). As a college graduate, there is always the possibility of entering the medical field as an administrator of records perhaps. <br /><br />Bottom line. There are other possibilites for you if things start looking bad in the educational field. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>STAFF TURNOVER : Neil and Vet,Have either of you...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1405">itsamee</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 5830<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Aug&nbsp;11&nbsp;2014 at 9:35am<br /><br />Neil and Vet,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Have either of you considered that it is mostly monetary? &nbsp;Most teachers hired in over the last couple years took a pay cut after their first year, others had pay frozen. &nbsp;With funding cuts everywhere, some teachers have to risk being unemployed and laid off if things go crazy. &nbsp;I, like many others, would leave if I could get into a more financially stable district.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Or at least one that didn't give me a 1-2% pay cut after the first year. &nbsp;</div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
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