Middletown Forum : Indigent Burial http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : Engineering : Indigent Burial Thu, 22 Oct 2026 06:38:18 +0000 Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:10:08 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=6082 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Indigent Burial : Your "guessing" is... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45460&title=indigent-burial#45460 Author: TonyB
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 9:10pm

Your "guessing" is about 100% incorrect. Perhaps you should do some research on the qualifications for Section 8 and Food Stamps before you make such inaccurate accusations. I don't eat at McDonalds so my Big Mac costs me nothing. However, how do McDonalds franchises in Australia pay almost double per hour to their workersyet their Big Mac cost less than it does here. I don't know about a "true protectionist" but I'd rather see every person pulling down union wages that this ridiculous race to the bottom that "Right to Work" has caused. It isn't fallout from free trade, it's the wholesale selling out of America for corporations to exploit cheap labor and lax regulation for greed. Show me how the American worker has benefitted from "Free Trade" because I don't see it.

]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:10:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45460&title=indigent-burial#45460 Indigent Burial : TonyB: "The idea that these... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45459&title=indigent-burial#45459 Author: Bill
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 3:27pm

TonyB: "The idea that these people are somehow "weak" after they have been beaten down by a system that threw them overboard because it was profitable for business to lower wages and standard of living is callous. Most of them would be happy for a job that paid a living wage and provided the opportunities that "America" was supposed to stand for"
 
Tony, aside from people who are elderly or legitimately disabled (that's a whole other discussion), I'm guessing 90% of the recipients of Section 8, food stamps etc you will find fall into one of two camps -- (1) a lazy male adult who never paid a bit of attention in school or acquired any skill of note. This person may do some work under the table or possibly deal in some illegal activities.  This person figures that making $8-9/hour somewhere isn't convenient to his schedule and working 30-40 hours a week is wayyy too taxing on his lifestyle.  The other camp includes unwed (of course) mothers who decided to have kids starting at age 15, 16, or 17 and proceeded to have multiple kids with multiple daddies.  This person may even live with a boyfriend (see #1) and deny it when filling out applications for assistance.  Having kids and the welfare it brings may even be the goal.
 
Keep in mind, in this economy it doesn't take a ton of brains or tuition to find a job making upwards of $14-15/hour.  Tons of jobs for medical jobs, trucking jobs, etc.  What is your idea of "living wage"?  If you are a loon who thinks burger flippers deserve $15/hour you need to take a couple of Finance and Economics course.
 
You are a true protectionist.  Barriers to trade should be put up and every person with a pulse should be pulling down union-level wages, right?  While there is fallout from free trade, one thing the complainers never want to consider is that the companies, the wealthy who need goods and services here, and many jobs may not be here without some degree of global expansion.  Without it, your Big Mac may cost $7.50 and your trip to Walmart about $150 instead of $60. 
]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:27:43 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45459&title=indigent-burial#45459 Indigent Burial : It doesn't go on forever.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45458&title=indigent-burial#45458 Author: TonyB
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 3:04pm

It doesn't go on forever. If they keep playing Russian Roulette with heroin, they are going to lose. A user never understands that. It's not that they don't care; it's that they think it will never happen to them. That point of view isn't exclusive to drug addicts. Many people do things and never think that the consequences will happen to them. Driving drunk is the prime example of that.

]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:04:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45458&title=indigent-burial#45458 Indigent Burial : TonyB:"Banning something... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45457&title=indigent-burial#45457 Author: VietVet
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 2:05pm

TonyB:

"Banning something that saves lives makes absolutely no sense"

But do they want their lives saved if they keep using, living on the edge of death and being bailed out by Narcan?

Saving a life that doesn't care if it is saved makes no sense either IMO.

Where do we draw the line and stop helping them Tony? This endless cycle of using and bailing out can't go on forever. ]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:05:18 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45457&title=indigent-burial#45457 Indigent Burial : Vet: your example is exactly what... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45456&title=indigent-burial#45456 Author: TonyB
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 1:43pm

Vet: your example is exactly what is wrong with current social programs. The idea that you make too much money to qualify doesn't take into account the fact that you can't afford to pay out of pocket without falling into poverty. It is ridiculous to me that you are excluded from a program that you need.

Pain takes many forms and the fact you are able to take care of it with a few Tylenol is good. Tylenol has killed people who have taken it before. It certainly doesn't have the death rate of heroin but it can kill.

Value of life doesn't just happen to those who are in poverty or pain. Addiction isn't something you just stop; wanting to many times isn't enough. When you hear your life devalued by those who would call you "degenerate" or "undesirable" when they have no idea what is going on in your life isn't helpful or motivational. I've seen and known heroin addicts; as bad as it is there is often nothing you can do for them. They need treatment and a reason to see value in living. How you open their eyes to their value is beyond my understanding; that is for professionals. Banning something that saves lives makes absolutely no sense. Heroin epidemics have been around for centuries without Narcan and just because someone died from an overdose hasn't ever stopped it. Cutting the supply would be a much better solution.
 ]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 13:43:03 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45456&title=indigent-burial#45456 Indigent Burial : Viet Vet -There used to be a very... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45455&title=indigent-burial#45455 Author: Perplexed
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 12:12pm

Viet Vet -

There used to be a very important elderly/handicapped accessibility plus emergency home repair program offered through the City. CDBG funds were used to leverage other private capital to undertake these endeavors that helped upwards of 100 deserving residents annually.

Now, thanks to the visionary(?) efforts of The Dougmeister and his underling The Fookster, the emphasis of the past number of years has been to randomly and recklessly dismantle neighborhoods via massive residential property demolition. I know of your dear wife's circumstances and it's too bad that your family couldn't have been given a helping hand like the days prior to 2009.]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:12:26 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45455&title=indigent-burial#45455 Indigent Burial : Aha!!!! Tony B, SOOO glad you... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45454&title=indigent-burial#45454 Author: VietVet
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 12:01pm

Aha!!!! Tony B, SOOO glad you mentioned this......

You state:

"I'm truly sorry you don't wish to help "those people". Pray there never comes a day when you need the help and run into a similar attitude."

But there has "come a day" when we needed the help and run into a similar attitude.........the "attitude" coming from the state run social programs offered that do not offer the help.

Wife has been paralyzed now for 6 years due to a stroke. Son and I are her only caregivers as there is no family and no social program to help us with her care. Only help we get is medical through my employer's insurance company and her Medicare but does not include homecare nor handicapped amenities. Couldn't get a social program to pay for wheelchair ramps...made 'em myself. Couldn't qualify for Medicaid which would have provided some homecare and some much needed relief for my son and I. Make too much and have too many assets to qualify. Only thing found has been Home Helpers to the tune of $18/hr negating much of what I make on the job. Wouldn't take much time at all to accumulate over a hundred bucks for a day for her care. We are in "no-man's" land.

We are too poor to pay out of pocket on our own and too "rich" to qualify for any social programs offered only to lower income/ essentially destitute people. I have been paying into your social programs designed to help the needy for over 45 years but when it is now time for me to use the programs I so desperately need, I am excluded. They have taken my payroll deductions for decades and I have been left out when I need the programs the most.

The pain thing I was referring to happens to be a Tylenol or two once in a while, not on a daily basis. I'm not fond of popping pills either. I would doubt that the dosage I am taking would cause any lasting effect concerning toxic buildup.

It is awfully hard to want to help "those people" when I see that they don't value their own life either as they are repeat offenders in the Narcan treatment responses. Again, do we really need to do the caring for people who don't care themselves? Why are we the custodians for the house that heroin built? Let 'em go Tony. That's what they want.

Banning Narcan may not stop the heroin epidemic completely, but it will cut into the number of users through attrition as they pass on. Might even keep those considering using heroin from using at all as they would know that there is no bailout to revive them, but I doubt they are perceptive enough to see it.   ]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:01:14 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45454&title=indigent-burial#45454 Indigent Burial : No real comparison to Jesus... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45453&title=indigent-burial#45453 Author: TonyB
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 10:36am

No real comparison to Jesus with the exception that we should all strive to be like him. Isn't that the real point of Christianity: not to say "I believe" and then go on sinning. Show me where Jesus praised the rich; called the poor and downtrodden "degenerates"? DIDN'T HAPPEN! How do you know "the way I think"? My beliefs didn't turn the wealthiest nation in the world into a third world cestpool. My "favorite social programs" happen to be Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Taking care of the old, sick and poor should be everyone's concern in this country but you'd rather grind them up and use them as road fill! You most definitely need to study economics because money at the top doesn't create jobs; demand creates jobs and poor people who struggle to pay for the essentials of life don't have the money to do that. People at the top pay more takes because they derive more benefits from a capitalist economic system. Taxpayer money is needed for more important things than propping up profitable corporations. How did we achieve such great things in the 1950's with a top tax rate of 91%? Because government had the revenue to create the Interstate Highway System and NASA and many other programs that advanced this country. By all means, let's get people off of welfare by giving them jobs that pay enough to live and not keep them in servitude to the wealthy! Which party is cutting education and turning our schools into something where "achieving" is passing a test instead of teaching critical thinking and promoting a love of learning? Why is ignorance being promoted and intelligence villified? Banning Narcan won't stop the heroin epidemic; heroin has been around a lot longer than Narcan ever has. Why would you want to punish an already impoverished family who has just tragically lost a loved one by making them more impoverished? Shouldn't solving the problem be more important than punishing someone? YOU are tired of paying for it which just points out your Ayn Rand "me, me, me" philosophy. I sincerely hope that you never have the misfortune of suffering hardship or economic setback because you are sorely ill-equipped to handle such an occurence. Go drink your wine but do it at home; lest you wind up in an accident that injures or kills you or someone else.

Vet: I also have those typical "pains" and some not so typical. I've taken the prescription and over the counter remedies to combat them. It is an addiction the same as heroin. Just because it isn't as immediately deadly doesn't mean it doesn't cause lasting harm to you. That's why I no longer take any kind of "pain medication"; it doesn't fix the problem. It only hides the problem for a short period of time while the toxic effects build up in your body. Just because you've never considered taking something doesn't mean others haven't: You should know from experience that not everyone thinks or feels the same as you. I'm truly sorry you don't wish to help "those people". Pray there never comes a day when you need the help and run into a similar attitude.
]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:36:07 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45453&title=indigent-burial#45453 Indigent Burial : Tony B these might as well be... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45452&title=indigent-burial#45452 Author: middiemom
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 9:50am

Tony B these might as well be your policies because that is the way you think. Take a look around you sir look what your beliefs have created. Let me guess if we just spent more money on your favorite social programs we would see a change right? Sooooo typical of leftist thinking. I don't believe in corporate welfare and feel everyone should be taxed at the same rate.But at least those policies attract paying jobs. I can stomach that. It should make a person like you happy. You need all the taxpayer money you can get for your failing policies.  Why should you be in a higher tax bracket because you produce? Why do you get a free ride for not achieving? From what I've read on this forum Vet's life is far more stressful than some loser who is depressed and hooked on pain pills. The only way to stop the heroin epidemic is to ban narcan, or if family is present, get your wallets out and pony up. WE are tired of paying for it. I don't make anyone else pay for my wine I consume. 

Oh and Tony, to compare yourself to Jesus....Wacko
]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 09:50:40 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45452&title=indigent-burial#45452 Indigent Burial : TonyB- Thanks for the response.... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45451&title=indigent-burial#45451 Author: VietVet
Subject: 6082
Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 6:10am

TonyB- Thanks for the response. I guess we will agree to disagree on our prospective concerning helping those that need help (your stance) and those who used the heroin for the first time (lifestyle choice) and are now addicted and those who take advantage of those who overly care (liberal thinkers) (my stance).

We could debate this but we are too far apart to meet in the middle.

One more thing pertaining to the use of drugs for pain.......

I have the typical "old people" physical aches and pains. Arthritis, pain from an old sports injury from a torn Achilles tendon.....I take Tylenol and never have thought about a shot of heroin/serious pain killers to escape the pain. I have some mental pain too trying to work a full time job, doing the daily things to keep a household running and taking care of my wife when I get home. I wouldn't wish my life on my worst enemy but not one time have I thought about taking some drugs to escape the reality of how tough it can be at times. I live with it without the crutch that is heroin. I choose not to run from my responsibilities to the people who depend on me by using the druggie escape route. People who have chosen to use heroin could have chosen the same path and not been so weak. I don't wish to help these people. ]]> Mon, 27 Apr 2015 06:10:23 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6082&PID=45451&title=indigent-burial#45451