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   <title>River Center : MiddieloverI don&amp;#039;t care what...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46885&amp;title=river-center#46885</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=115">Vivian Moon</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;12&nbsp;2016 at 7:57am<br /><br />Middielover<br>I don't care what happens in the Downtown Dream Area as long as it does not involve <b>taxpayers money.</b><br>If you want to gamble..do it on your own dime.]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2016 07:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : Another little twist???How about...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46884&amp;title=river-center#46884</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=101">Mike_Presta</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;11&nbsp;2016 at 3:33pm<br /><br />Another little twist???<br /><br />How about if they just stop insisting upon making the same mistakes over and over again???]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : middielover......a little twist...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46883&amp;title=river-center#46883</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;11&nbsp;2016 at 8:38am<br /><br />middielover......<br /><br />a little twist on your statement.....<br /><br />How about the past was terrific until the 70's when the late 70's to current city leaders started to run things therefore the future must be questionable at best until proven otherwise. <br /> <br />We cannot move forward until the current leaders start doing things differently and with some competence and all major issues have been rectified that have been created by past/current leaders. <br /><br />By Vet]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 08:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : obviously u can&amp;#039;t speak for...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46882&amp;title=river-center#46882</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18">spiderjohn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;11&nbsp;2016 at 8:37am<br /><br />obviously u can't speak for me(or probably anyone else), middielover, because you twist my words to your convenience.<br /><br />My past here has been wonderful<br />my limited future here will be fine<br />I can make this place work for me<br /><br />as long as your beloved former downtown area is beginning to show life(and it is as we move in to warmer weather), the town is fine in your opinion. We all make mistakes and would like "do-overs".<br /><br />Silly to blame those here for very expensive choices made by the Donham bunker over decades costing millions of OUR $$. Maybe channel your attacks and negativisms in a more relevant direction? <br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 08:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : The past was bad therefore the...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46881&amp;title=river-center#46881</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1667">middielover</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;11&nbsp;2016 at 7:19am<br /><br />The past was bad therefore the future must be bad.<br />We cannot move forward until clock is rewound and all past mistakes have been rectified.<br /><br />By<br /><br />Moon, Vet, Spider et al]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : itsamee- I will avoid a full blown...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46880&amp;title=river-center#46880</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;10&nbsp;2016 at 2:56pm<br /><br />itsamee- I will avoid a full blown argument with you and will just disagree with your answers to my comments. You must have a vested interest in what goes on down there. You are a much kinder/gentler judge of what is transpiring downtown than I am. You also have more patience than I do on results versus money spent in a reasonable amount of time. Just for the record, how much time is too much time to wait for the downtown supporters to see progress? They act like they started their redevelopment plans yesterday when they talk about giving it some more time.  <br /><br />IMO, the downtown hasn't made enough progress in the decade taken of trying to make it a crowned jewel. What they are doing down there with the art and fru fru and the fact that they take one step forward and two steps back sours me on any support for them. This ain't a "Yellow Springs academia/cultural" type of town. It's still a blue collar steel town albeit a downsized one. <br /><br />I am always amazed to hear the downtown supporters call what is a lump of coal a diamond ring when defending their downtown. Some are so blinded by their desire to see it successful they let their dreams get in the way of seeing reality.  <br /><br />By the way, you don't use taxpayer money buying dilapidate buildings to give to the friends of city hall. Blatant misuse of city money. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center : Vet: How about the city using...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46879&amp;title=river-center#46879</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1405">itsamee</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;10&nbsp;2016 at 1:59pm<br /><br />Vet: &nbsp;<div><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>How about the city using money to purchase the Thatcher estate buildings and turning them over to Cincy State for their campus building concept... </i>&nbsp;-- <b>Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Cincy State is still there, still growing, just slower. You have to take a risk at times. However, the foot traffic HAS increased downtown. You might want to go down there on a Friday night or Saturday, get a coffee at Triple Moon and Have a meal at Murphey's landing.&nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>The city also gave to the college, the old Senior's Center which has yet to be occupied -</i> <b>See above.</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"></i><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>How about the old Journal building that was suppose to be apartments by now. Didn't happen did it. No surprise here.</i> &nbsp;<b>- How is that the cities fault? &nbsp;Also, things take longer sometimes. &nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>Even the crowned jewel, the PAC, has revolving door tenants and a semi-successful result.</i> &nbsp;-- <b style="">That happens at all PAC's. &nbsp;Artists are not known to stay in one place forever. &nbsp;However, there is still a lot of foot traffic to and from that place.&nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>The cabinet place on Central with the shady non-bidding arrangement. This isn't exactly on the positive list of happenings in their downtown. -- </i><b>? The white building? &nbsp;At least it has a stable tenant? &nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>The Studio Theatre standing in limbo for decades with no solution in sight. -- </i>I<b> concede this one. That sucker needs to be torn down.</b></span><b><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"></b><i><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"></i><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>The Rose Furniture building fiasco and 350 thou gone somewhere, who knows. -- </i><b>They need to lean on those owners to make it safe or tear it down. Concede again.&nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><span style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><i>Again, to support my claim that everything the city touches turns sour, this is yet another example of futility at it's best in their downtown plans. They bulldozed the former service station on Main for additional parking for the college which isn't needed with the anemic enrollment numbers. They gave the Manchester Hotel away, part of the Thatcher deal, for a buck, after advertising it for 200 thou or so on asking price, and it is still sitting there empty. They gave another building away to Sue Wittman for her arts program that has yielding minimal results to date.</i> &nbsp;-- &nbsp;<b>With many cities, these actions are similar. You give the old buildings away for next to nothing because you dont want them sitting there not being used. Sometimes you get a good return, sometimes you dont.&nbsp;</b></span><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style="line-height: 16.8px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">I would argue that nothing is neither as good, nor as bad as this forum likes to make it. &nbsp;There has been an uptick in traffic downtown, true. &nbsp;It is not yet to the levels they want, but it has increased. The city should be getting rid of buildings when they can, but when you do not have a lot of people to choose from, sometimes you gotta take a bigger risk. &nbsp;</div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 13:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center :   middielover wrote:Moon and...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46878&amp;title=river-center#46878</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;10&nbsp;2016 at 12:14pm<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by middielover" alt="Originally posted by middielover" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>middielover wrote:</strong><br /><br />Moon and Vet<div><br /></div><div>I do not happen to be a "downtowner" but you always seem to look for what is "bad" or what could "go wrong".</div><div><br /></div><br /></td></tr></table> <br /><br />middielover, just happened to think of another example for you in case three aren't enough.<br /><br />How about the city using money to purchase the Thatcher estate buildings and turning them over to Cincy State for their campus building concept. The old CG&E building, still with some floors not occupied after several years and an initial projected enrollment of 5000 in five years and, as of today, has yet to reach close to 1000. The buildings were suppose to give the college a boost with the end result being to increase foot traffic in their downtown area so that that traffic could support the arts, restaurants and other businesses down there. Hasn't happened as the 600 attending the college don't offer much foot traffic at all, with most, I suspect being on-line students, nowhere close to downtown Middletown.  <br /><br />The city also gave to the college, the old Senior's Center which has yet to be occupied. <br /><br />How about the old Journal building that was suppose to be apartments by now. Didn't happen did it. No surprise here. <br /><br />Even the crowned jewel, the PAC, has revolving door tenants and a semi-successful result. <br /><br />The cabinet place on Central with the shady non-bidding arrangement. This isn't exactly on the positive list of happenings in their downtown.<br /><br />The Studio Theatre standing in limbo for decades with no solution in sight. <br /><br />The Rose Furniture building fiasco and 350 thou gone somewhere, who knows. <br /><br />Again, to support my claim that everything the city touches turns sour, this is yet another example of futility at it's best in their downtown plans. They bulldozed the former service station on Main for additional parking for the college which isn't needed with the anemic enrollment numbers. They gave the Manchester Hotel away, part of the Thatcher deal, for a buck, after advertising it for 200 thou or so on asking price, and it is still sitting there empty. They gave another building away to Sue Wittman for her arts program that has yielding minimal results to date. <br /><br />See the pattern here? Money spent......nothing gained.......every time. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center :    </title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1671">Analytical</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;10&nbsp;2016 at 11:44am<br /><br /><img src="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/smileys/smiley20.gif" border="0" alt="Thumbs Up" title="Thumbs Up" />]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 11:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>River Center :   middielover wrote:Moon and...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292&amp;PID=46876&amp;title=river-center#46876</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6292<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;10&nbsp;2016 at 9:49am<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by middielover" alt="Originally posted by middielover" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>middielover wrote:</strong><br /><br />Moon and Vet<div><br /></div><div>I do not happen to be a "downtowner" but you always seem to look for what is "bad" or what could "go wrong".</div><div><br /></div><br /></td></tr></table> <br /><br />I won't speak for Vivian but will give my 2 cents on this.<br /><br />middielover- There is a long history within the pages of this very forum documenting the ideas, the execution of those ideas and the failures of those ideas. The frequency of failures is undeniable. This city, over the last 3-4 decades, has a reputation of developing an idea, finding funding for those ideas (most of the time coming from that infamous, secretive, voodoo financed general fund) with the final result usually being a failure as to quality of work, an over-confidence of interest from the public, or a complete breakdown from conception to attempted completion of any project. <br /><br />Here are some examples of what I mean.....<br /><br />1. Duncan Oil/Office Outfitters/ Railroad Station/ Gas station area<br /><br />The city knocked down the area formerly known as Jack's Rec Center and the gas station next to the railroad depot. When the high speed rail line was thought to come through Middletown, the city leaders envisioned this connection between commuters getting off the train and going to their precious downtown area as a stimulation to get their downtown going. They also had a convenience store lined up for the vacant lot that stands today at the railroad tracks on Central Ave. A lot of money wasted producing nothing to date.<br /><br />2. Bicentennial Commons/ Lake Middletown area<br /><br />The AK stage at Bicentennial Commons have been used less than 5 times to date. Lake Middletown is a muddy hole in the river with major over growth to date. They paved a parking lot at city expense down there in anticipation of major usage and no one uses it to my knowledge. More money wasted.<br /><br />3. City Centre Mall in the 70's<br /><br />Went nowhere. Not developed. No interest from the public. Millions to build.  13 million to tear it all back down to open up the Central Ave/ Broad St hub for downtown.<br /><br />4. River Center....has to potential for spending a lot of money with little/negative results just like the three mentioned above. <br /><br />THAT's why I am just a tad bit gun shy on any projects that occur in this city. Certainly looks nice by the drawing. Certainly has the best intentions. Using what we already know about that area of town, with the prostitutes, drug usage, misc. crime and the homeless element, it MAY become a haven for those that it was not intended to serve. That's all I'm saying here. Negative? Yep. Reason for the negativity......history and the likelihood of things going wrong in a city that lacks any common sense in it's leadership and just can't seem to find a way to do things right most of time.  ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
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