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   <title>hidden news : a large majority of locals want...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6699&amp;PID=49963&amp;title=hidden-news#49963</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18">spiderjohn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;28&nbsp;2018 at 3:32pm<br /><br />a large majority of locals want increased variety in shopping for everything, more upper-end dining and entertainment options. This specifically is why the upper end has left and is leaving--to live somewhere with these amenities instead of driving 20 miles to appreciate such.<br /><br />And when these families leave(many of them are now empty nesters), we lose quality leaders and donors affiliated with local govt., education, city boards, charities etc. The true backbone of any successful community. Blue collar can only take us so far. It is all part of a well-functioning community mix.<br /><br />We are now overwhelmingly blue collar and people on support. Look at how it is playing out--we have very few qualified an]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2018 15:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : &amp;#034;No way Vet--we currently...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;28&nbsp;2018 at 2:19pm<br /><br />"No way Vet--we currently have a McD/Kohls/Lowes-type town(so you should be more satisfied!). Many want much more"<br /><br />Who are the many you keep referring to? It can't be large numbers or even close to a majority of people living here. Knowing this is a blue collar, middle to lower income city, I would think those living here would consider Kohl's, Lowes and McD's quite affordable if not too pricey on some things. <br /><br />"Forget the coffee shops--they are simply one symptom of local change, though they are busy with a very diverse clientele."<br /><br />Sorry. You brought up the coffee shops in your previous post.<br /><br />"More and more of the upper-end families are quietly selling and leaving for more attractive areas. I just learned of two very prominent families(those that donate graciously to local projects) that are planning a stealth exit. Well--two more outstanding high-end homes to be available!"<br /><br />Alright, and just why do you think these upper end families are leaving town? Could it be that the city and the schools have been stuck on poor to mediocre as to operations and results for such a long time they have given up hope of it ever changing? That would be my best guess as to their reasons for leaving. And if this is true, who may be to blame for the long time downtrend?......surprise!!! it is and has been city and school leadership for the last four decades dictating the direction and dismal progress and city growth. They have had enough of the poor city/school environments created by the folks at One Donham Plaza and I don't blame them.<br /><br />"This site can't seem to leave the ugly parts of our past---by now we all know a lot of negative decision-making history."<br /><br />There's an explanation for that Spider. When you see no positive change on decision making from that "ugly past" you refer to, and you see the leaders learning nothing by past mistakes and they keep carrying on the same old failed direction with absolutely no common sense thrown into the mix, you tend to keep referring to the past as the bar to improve upon against the current goal. When that fails to happen, the "ugly past bar" stays in place as a reminder and mark to beat. To date, there is no indication that the leaders have even acknowledged mistakes of the past much less trying to make improvements for the better. Oh sure, there have been some attempts to bring decent jobs in here with the new energy company and some industrial park activity in recent years. But given the dire need to replace the paper mill and Armco downsizing numbers from decades ago, I would have expected much more than this years ago. I see no indication that the leaders are capable of changing directions despite all the bad decisions in their attempts to refill the decent wage job pipeline, enticing decent people to locate here, repairing the city's poor reputation, fixing the dam streets and infrastructure, finding actual methods that will work to fix the lousy schools and improving on town amenities in general. If it isn't working, ya gotta change the way you do it type of thing, right? Or, how about driving to the many successful towns around here and asking them how they operate. Middletown's city and school leaders just may learn a thing or two along the way. Wouldn't that be nice. There is no shame in asking for some suggestions to improve how you operate.<br /><br />"Concentrate on what we can be instead of what we were or have become. Be part of moving forward.<br />Is there really any other choice?"<br /><br />Be part of moving forward? Ok, how does one go about that? I honestly don't know how to approach the people in charge with enough confidence that they would actually listen with any interest and take me up on my suggestions. I am convinced they are locked into their game plan and plan on executing their game plan regardless of outcome or a common sense approach. I can't understand why they do the things they do most of the time. Makes no sense to me and is as illogical as it can be to me. I am also convinced that they do not want to hear from the general populace with regard to how the people want their city molded. Larry Mulligan is the poster child for disinterest in how the public thinks it ought to be.  It is a "my way or the highway" type of management in the Adkins Administration. Gilleland and earlier city managers had the same attitude of citizen exclusion as well. It is an inherent culture in Middletown city government and has been for decades. You know this.<br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2018 14:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : No way Vet--we currently have...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6699&amp;PID=49960&amp;title=hidden-news#49960</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18">spiderjohn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;28&nbsp;2018 at 12:43pm<br /><br />No way Vet--we currently have a McD/Kohls/Lowes-type town(so you should be more satisfied!). Many want much more. Forget the coffee shops--they are simply one symptom of local change, though they are busy with a very diverse clientele.<br /><br />Bottom line being:<br />More and more of the upper-end families are quietly selling and leaving for more attractive areas. I just learned of two very prominent families(those that donate graciously to local projects) that are planning a stealth exit. Well--two more outstanding high-end homes to be available!<br /><br />This site can't seem to leave the ugly parts of our past---by now we all know a lot of negative decision-making history. Time to learn from it and leave it behind for a better future. Concentrate on what we can be instead of what we were or have become. Be part of moving forward.<br />Is there really any other choice?]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2018 12:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : &amp;#034;wow vet--I(and MANY others)...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;28&nbsp;2018 at 6:58am<br /><br />"wow vet--I(and MANY others) really don't want to live in the city that you envision."<br /><br />And what we have now is better?<br /><br />"NO--Kohl's and Lowes aren't enough price point/brand/style variety."<br /><br />Plenty of quality items to choose from in these two stores IMO Name brand merchandise and many choices at Lowes. Probably my most favorite store in town.<br /><br />"The coffee shops that you mention locally are thriving and continue to grow in popularity, + they draw all levels of locals together daily. They rate up there highly as to where to catch up on local happenings"<br /><br />So the coffee shops are well attended on a daily basis downtown? What percentage of the city population would you guesstimate patronize these coffee shops? I would think they make little to no impact on the city as to interest.I would think most would go for the McD's coffee for the lower price and same quality.<br /><br />"Knedler's(former)Marsh is a kind effort by that organization, however many want MORE."<br /><br />Nice to see yet another business gone refilled by another grocery store. The people in that area need a grocery there. We certainly don't need more vacant buildings in town. <br /><br />"The former downtown area, has been(and continues to be) the largest long-term waste of $$ in local history, however history aside, is the only area of the community that seems to be improving. I find myself going there more often. DMI has been a very polarizing organization among all local business owner thinking."<br /><br />The downtown area is and has been since the old City Center Mall days, a total cluster. Millions have been spent for years and the result has been what we see today......vacant stores, shopping choices that do not have the interest of most who live here and property changing hands in favor of the city friends who seem to be unable to develop property literally given to them. The downtown has been and continues to be a money pit, white elephant of a project seemingly stuck in neutral for the most part. <br /><br />"Of course we need living wage sustainable jobs, though that is far easier to say than to produce"<br /><br />The ED department has had decades to make improvements on the job front. They have made, at best, snail's pace progress. Until recently, the decent paying job offerings have been non-existent for the most part. They have dropped the ball and have been ineffective for years knowing we were losing higher paying jobs in this city. Asleep at the wheel all this time. <br /><br />"Council are simply part-time bit players honestly trying to do the right thing whenever they figure out what that might be"<br /><br />Current and past councils have been totally ineffective in their duties to the city for the past three decades. They have produced little to nothing as to progress and have merely occupied a seat behind the council desk rubber stamping any and all things the city manager proposes. They are not dynamic nor are they individual thinkers who have the capabilities to make decisions for the betterment of the city. We all see the results of their ineptness today. <br /><br />"School system--I honestly don't know what to say about it, other than the results speak very loudly."<br /><br />Agree. A total disaster both academically and in sports. The educators are not any better at performing than the city leaders IMO.<br /><br />"We must become a more attractive, desirable community if we are going to draw in more "desirable" families and young starters. A very big task that involves everyone."<br /><br />City leaders inviting an overabundance of HUD and low income isn't helping solve the desirable community image. Neither is the drug/heroin problems we have. Some of the areas of town look like they belong in Appalachia country as well. Parts of Eaton Ave will attest to that statement. Mercy. Talk about some people who don't care what their property looks like. What a shame. That street use to be respectable decades ago. Dirt yards. Paint peeling on homes. Sheds built onto fronts of homes that look like they could fall in at any minute. No pride demonstrated here. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2018 06:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : wow vet--I(and MANY others) really...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=18">spiderjohn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;27&nbsp;2018 at 8:56am<br /><br />wow vet--I(and MANY others) really don't want to live in the city that you envision. NO--Kohl's and Lowes aren't enough price point/brand/style variety. The coffee shops that you mention locally are thriving and continue to grow in popularity, + they draw all levels of locals together daily. They rate up there highly as to where to catch up on local happenings. Danberry theaters don't cvut it any more. Knedler's(former)Marsh is a kind effort by that organization, however many want MORE.<br /><br />The former downtown area, has been(and continues to be) the largest long-term waste of $$ in local history, however history aside, is the only area of the community that seems to be improving. I find myself going there more often. DMI has been a very polarizing organization among all local business owner thinking.<br /><br />Of course we need living wage sustainable jobs, though that is far easier to say than to produce. But that is where our expanded ED dept. should come in to play. Council are simply part-time bit players honestly trying to do the right thing whenever they figure out what that might be. School system--I honestly don't know what to say about it, other than the results speak very loudly.<br /><br />We must become a more attractive, desirable community if we are going to draw in more "desirable" families and young starters. A very big task that involves everyone.]]>
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   <pubDate>Tue, 27 Mar 2018 08:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : This kind of look-back has to...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1732">buddhalite</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;26&nbsp;2018 at 9:29am<br /><br /><div>This kind of look-back has to produce the same feelings in all of us as it does Viet and me.&nbsp; The reality is this city has wasted the last 20 years with its proverbial head in the sand...while the rest of the area eclipsed us.&nbsp; Even Franklin has done a far better job realize where their growth was coming and did all they could to make themselves business friendly - and have reaped benefits from that understanding.</div><div><br></div><div>We've go no jobs in this city.&nbsp; Until we fix that - we've literally no hope in revitalizing our city and continuing to pour money into the Munsters Basement that is Downtown is only making it more difficult to attract real business and jobs to this city</div><div><br></div><div>Thought the article was a pretty interesting look back to '01 and how it seems nothing has gotten better - in fact, have only gotten worse.</div><div><br></div><div>The plan:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Jobs</div><div>2. Jobs</div><div>3. Jobs</div><div>4. Jobs</div><div><br></div><div>They're so important to a community that I firmly believe that jobs solve every problem by simply bringing life back to the community, giving young men busy hands (idle hands are the devil's playground), filling the city coffers and where there's some jobs - more jobs will always follow.</div><div><br></div><div>We're too worried about 'housing stock' which is an issue (but guess what will fix that issue?&nbsp; JOBS!&nbsp; Get jobs and people will build bigger, better homes.</div><div><br></div><div>We're too worried about houses going down the drain - we should have required bonds on these out of state no-face companies against this sort of thing to financially protect the city.</div><div><br></div><div>We're never going to see the east end develop until we re-zone so much of that 'residential property' that's 1000 feet from the highway off-ramp.&nbsp; No one is EVER going to live there - but Starbucks and Chick-fil-a would love to have that property....and a small industrial park would bring jobs!&nbsp; Snowballs chance on that one.....</div><div><br></div><div>There's so much more to do...and little costs us anything but it can REALLY reap us huge benefits....but then again there's a bunch of decrepit, decayed and dilapidated buildings downtown that need new facades - because we all know that the facade makes all the difference....but it's just lipstick on a pig.</div><div><br></div><div>Actually, lipstick on a pig is what I would describe pretty much everything our Administration does.</div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2018 09:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : Nice find buddhalite. The article...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;26&nbsp;2018 at 8:48am<br /><br />Nice find buddhalite. The article is from 2001 as noted. Having read through the article one could conclude the following:<br /><br />It is clear that AK Steel isn't nearly involved in the community as Armco once was but then again, AK Steel isn't nearly the company with the wealth/success that Armco once had either. It's been run into the ground just like the city and the schools have been IMO. The leadership quality just isn't as good as it once was.<br /><br />After nearly 17 years after this article was written, there is no change in the school's reputation as an undesirable, low performer with the emphasis on proficiency testing and indicator numbers. (But we were told by the past and current superintendents that there were some "new ideas" to try and new "eye opening" programs that were being implemented that would bring positive results). Hey, and don't forget the new elementary schools with a 45 million dollar price tag that was suppose to boost performance and now, the 96 million dollar price tag for the high school addition, the new middle school and the sports complexes being built.....all sold to the bond levy voter as a great deal and promising us that "new things are on the horizon"......and all the yes voters bought it hook, line and sinker. Why did you all vote for this deception?<br /><br />Good paying jobs providing livable wages and disposable incomes are nowhere to be found in this city since the paper mills closed and AK/Armco took the employee numbers from 9600 in the 60's to around 2300 today. The city leaders sat on their hands and looked the other way when they saw that happening and did nothing to counter the reductions from our best employers. Watching that happen has been an incredible view of total incompetence on past and current city leader foresight. Not one of them demonstrated an ounce of recognizing any future needs the city required. They just let it happen without a whimper. <br /><br />Judging by this article it appears the downtown area was dead in 2001 and, seventeen years later, is still on life support. Even with their artzy/cultural/Cincy State/coffee shop/fru fru restaurant concepts, it hasn't gotten significantly better as to interest. It is still deserted at various times of the week with minor traffic/activity in it's best situation. Isn't this a first hand indication that the efforts in the last ten years + has been a bust in attracting downtown activity? If it hasn't happened in almost 17 years of trying (with millions spent), isn't it time to change course and try something new down there? The fact that they insist that their arts focus will work after 17+ years of trying proves just how stubbornly blind these people are and, sadly, they are taking our money along for the ride.<br /><br />The location between Dayton and Cincy is talked about. Actually has been talked about in minor terms long before this article was written. Middletown has always been brought up over the years as a prime location. The problem is just how incredibly ignorant past and present city leaders have been in promoting that fact. The world went by and other communities latched onto the idea in the I-75 corridor connecting corridor growth and interest with city opportunities. But no, not Middletown. They sat idly by without the slightest interest in taking advantage of our location to offer companies opportunities to locate here for corporate warehousing (P&G would have been nice but went to Dayton), research facilities (P&G closed Sharon Woods Tech Center in Blue Ash and went to Mason), corporate headquarters, car/truck parts manufacturing, plastics manufacturing operations, military, DOD and government operations, etc. Hey, we're right in the middle of it all yet we have benefited the least of any community around here to date. Why? We're a great location. Just ask the drug dealers. <br /><br />Bottom line. The ball was dropped here long ago. We are just now getting a very late start in our attempt to establish some sort of progress on the job front. Waited too long city leaders.......decades too long. Why has the effort on finding this city decent paying jobs been so dormant these past decades? City leadership has simply been asleep at the wheel all this time. Sad to see. ]]>
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   <pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2018 08:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : From the Cincinnati Enquirer in...</title>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1732">buddhalite</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;25&nbsp;2018 at 10:50pm<br /><br />From the Cincinnati Enquirer in 2001...<div><br></div><div>Thought it was interesting!</div><div><br></div><div>=======</div><div><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Sunday, October 14, 2001<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Middletown finds its way<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Industrial town grapples with change<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">By James McNair <o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">The Cincinnati Enquirer<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">a MIDDLETOWN <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>It's Sunday-morning quiet downtown on Main Street. Stoplights change for carsnowhere in sight. The Sorg Paper mill, shut more than a year ago, standssolemnly like a penitentiary wall at the west edge of town. Ben Ligon's 76Service is servicing nothing.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>What makes the sceneso contradictory is that this is a Friday, not a Sunday. Banks, governmentoffices and stores are open. But the real Main Street, with businesses teemingwith customers, is 10 miles away <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>at the city's lone link to Interstate 75.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Mr. Ligon, a wiry 66, doesn't seem to mind the lulls betweendoing oil changes. The gas pumps are long gone, and his two bays are empty, asis the Snack-Rite machine inside the propped-open front door. Still, Mr. Ligonstays open from 8 to 5 and works Saturdays.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>It's just something to getaway from home,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> heshrugged.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Many cities and townsshare the dilemma of stagnant downtowns and suburban flight. Middletown,though, has a more fundamental problem at its doorstep: Trying to make itselfover as a diversified business center after a century of dependence on steeland paper.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>The effort stemspartly from the recognition that Middletown, perched squarely between Cincinnatiand Dayton, has a future as a regional business hub and commuter haven. Butthere's another factor beyond the city's control: The continuing unraveling ofits primordial manufacturing sector.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>In May 2000, SorgPaper called an end to a 148-year run and laid off its last 200 employees.Square D, an electrical devices maker, is dislodging 250 workers through thephased shutdown of its 101-year-old Middletown operations. And AK Steel <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> the successor toMiddletown's longtime corporate benefactor, Armco <span style="font-family:  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> has said that a slumping steel market and newenvironmental-compliance mandates could force it to halt raw steel productionand eliminate 2,000 local jobs.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>The upheaval inmanufacturing goes back several decades and has made Middletown lessself-contained and less certain of its identity. More and more, natives aregoing elsewhere for work.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>The aim of most of myclassmates in 1951 was to get a car and get a job at Armco,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> said City Council memberFred Sennet. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>But today,it's tough to keep a kid in town because there are fewer jobs in the steelmills and paper mills. It's tough to keep his parents in town.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>To this day, the cityof 51,000 owes its economic vibrancy to steel, paper, airplane parts and otherassembly-line industries. AK Steel, Middletown's biggest employer with 4,000local workers, is the steel industry's most profitable producer. More than adozen factories chug away in the unglitzy business of making corrugated boxes,industrial toilet paper and other paper goods.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>There are a lot of businessesin Middletown that don't get a lot of play,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>said Larry W<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Jobs abundant<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>If there's anythingwrong with being a factory town in 2001, it isn't readily discernible.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>The unemployment ratefor the Hamilton-Middletown market was a nearly invisible 3.3 percent inAugust, a big improvement over the 7 percent of 1993. Plant workers at AK Steelearn an average of $60,000 a year. AK's Web site advertises jobs starting at$45,000 with all the benefits one would expect of a Fortune 500 company.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Middletown has come along way in toning down its blue-collar image. With its borders now stretchingto I-75 and into Warren County, the economy includes a greater base ofretailing, service industries and construction.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>As of August, 16.7percent of Middletown-Hamilton's nonagricultural work force toiled inmanufacturing, down from 20 percent in 1993, according to the U.S. Bureau ofLabor Statistics. At the same time, manufacturing accounted for 18.6 percent ofthe state's work force, 19.1 percent of Dayton-Springfield's. Cincinnati was at15.3 percent.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>City income taxcollections also shed light on the shift away from manufacturing. Business andindustry contributed 7 percent of income tax receipts in 2000, down from 11.6percent in 1989. The rest comes from individuals and sole proprietorships.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Andy Haney, presidentof Local 2258 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, said theSquare D closing will send even more residents out of town for work.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>I would say that's going tohappen because Middletown is not really that big a place,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> Mr. Haney said. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Other than AK Steel, it'sgoing to be hard to find a job in town right now with the kind of wages andbenefits we make here.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Hourly workers atSquare D earn an average of $35,000 to $40,000 a year, he said, and about threequarters of them live in the city. For every worker who finds employment wherethe local income tax rate is the same or higher, Middletown will lose a trickleof revenue.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Two Middletowns<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Middletown's growthto the east and I-75, meantime, has essentially created two Middletowns, onewith the factories and dormant downtown, the other with the mall, restaurantsand middle-class subdivisions. The differences will be even more pronounced ina matter of years.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Both Bishop FenwickHigh School and Middletown Regional Hospital plan to relocate toward the I-75corridor. The moves would boost Fenwick's draw as a regional school and enhancethe 310-bed hospital's ability to serve a broader market.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>The population outside ofMiddletown proper has been growing at double-digit rates,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> said Larry James, vicepresident and chief marketing officer for Middletown Regional Health Systems. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>We want to make ourselvesmore accessible as possible to patients from those areas.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>With the hospitalalone spending $125 million and moving 1,500 employees, the city aims to movein lock step. Plans call for the annexation of nearly 400 acres near I-75,including what would become the hospital and Fenwick sites.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Somehow, downtownboosters are optimistic.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Central Avenue, thetown's historic shopping venue, is being disinterred from a mall structure thatentombed the street in 1973. A commercial disappointment, the City Centre mallwound up costing the city $500,000 a year to heat and cool. The price tag torenovate the four-block downtown sector: $13 million.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Earl Back, a retirediron worker who has lived 60 years in Middletown, is skeptical that downtownwill ever amount to much. So is Mr. Ligon, the service-station owner. To him,the abandoned Sorg Paper plant is a huge liability.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>They need to tear it down andput a casino in there,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Mr. Ligon said.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Leaving the past<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Like many Rust Beltburgs, Middletown is learning how to wean itself of old, patriarchalindustries.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>For about a century,the city practically owed its existence to the factories who employed itsablest men and created a flotilla of local contractors and suppliers.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Paul Sorg, one of therichest men in America in the late 1800s, was Middletown's biggest employer andbenefactor as the owner of a tobacco plant, the paper mill and a hotel. He alsobuilt the city's opera house, where locals can treat themselves to classicssuch as Babes in Toyland and Bizet's Carmen. Sorg's 35-room Romanesque mansionstill anchors a row of elegant Victorian homes.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>George Verity took itto the next level. His American Rolling Mill Co. began steel-making operationsin 1901 and made the city a nucleus of world trade. Armco helped bankroll theconstruction of public buildings, schools, parks, swimming pools and communitycenters. It sponsored countless events and civic initiatives.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>In 1961, Armcoemployed more than 50,000 people in 139 countries. In Middletown, its payrollapproached 8,000. To many generations, it was said, Middletown was Armco.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>You name anything in town,and Armco and its employees had something to do with it,<span style="font-family:  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> said Mr. Sennet, the city councilman. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>You wanted to get a schoollevy passed, they'd get the troops out. They built the Armco Recreation Centerin the south end of town. They had a hand in expanding the hospital. They saton boards. Every group that was worth anything in town was created by Armco.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Today, therelationship between the city and the company is more arm's length.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Through a series ofownership changes, Armco became AK Steel. Maintaining an active philanthropy,AK accounts for about $500,000 in corporate and employee United Way givingevery year and it pledged $500,000 to Middletown Regional Hospital last yearfor a cardiac emergency room. It threw a 100th anniversary party for 40,000people last year. It committed $250,000 toward the construction of soccerfields and other facilities at Jacot Park.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Not company town<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>But industrialleadership and profitability <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>and pleasing shareholders <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>are what make AK tick.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>We recognize as the largestemployer in town that we play an important role in the economic engine of thearea,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> said AK spokesmanAlan McCoy. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>We chooseto play an appropriate role in civic direction. We're involved, but not hiredto drive. We don't intend to run this town; we intend to run this company.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>AK Steel alsooperates in a much different regulatory environment than Armco did.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>A year ago, the U.S.Environmental Protection Agency filed suit against AK Steel, accusing it ofair, water and solid-waste pollution. It didn't come as news to residents ofthe Oneida neighborhood on AK's southern perimeter. They say soot from AKsmokestacks coats their cars and homes. Not only that, they say, it stinks.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>The siding on my home ispractically ruined,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>said Raymond Agee, a retiree who lives on Navaho Street. "I've taken towashing it by hand with an SOS pad. You can't just take a hose and wash it off.I was raised in this neighborhood, and it was never this bad.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Clark Thompson, whosehouse on Seneca Street is less than a mile from the nearest AK mill, said hewears a respirator when he mows his lawn or blows leaves. He said hisair-conditioning intake filters are black.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Basically, if you live in oraround AK you expect some odors, some minor fallout or soot, but it's clearlygotten increasingly unbearable in the past five years,<span style="font-family:  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> said Mr. Thompson, general manager of aspecialty machine company in Middletown. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Peoplein Middletown realize that AK Steel is vital and don't want it to suffer, butthey have to be held accountable.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>AK asserts that, ifanything, it has eliminated emissions substantially over the years. If thecourt sides with the EPA, the company could have to pay million of dollars infines. Either way, the government is getting stricter in governing steel millpollution, and AK Steel is looking at spending $80 million to comply.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Mr. Wood, of theMiddletown Economic Development Corp., said he knows of no instances ofcompanies spurning Middletown because of foul air. Still, in the organization'spromotional brochure, little mention is made of the town's lifeline from steel.The brochure contains not a single picture of the sprawling AK Steel plant.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>It also sidesteps thecity's underperforming public schools and nagging crime rate.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>According to the OhioDepartment of Education, Middletown schools failed to reach the bar on 17 ofthe state's 27 performance standards in the 1999-2000 school year, mostlyproficiency test scores. Meanwhile, FBI statistics show the city racked up 64.3serious crimes per 1,000 residents in 1999, or 50 percent higher than the urbanOhio and national average, yet lower than Hamilton's 78.3 per 1,000 andDayton's 95.1 per 1,000.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">On the upswing<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>But city eldersbelieve Middletown's fortunes are on the upswing. Sam Ashworth, executivedirector of the Middletown Historical Society, said he would like to see thecity use its industrial heritage as a springboard to the future.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>"I think <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> and I hope <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> that the future brings somehigher-tech sort of organizations to the area,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Mr. Ashworth said. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Ican see that happening with Butler County and I do think that Middletown is ina good position for that.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Seizing on the city'sgeography, Mr. Wood has resorted to pillaging companies from Cincinnati andDayton. His agency's radio spots, touting Middletown as <span style="font-family:  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>the heart of Southwest Ohio,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> beckon on stations in thosecities.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>We're sitting in the middleof 2.8 million people, and there are businesses that can strategically servetheir customers better from here,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Mr. Wood said.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Several companieshave made the move, he said. One was Terminix International, which closedoffices in Cincinnati and Dayton and consolidated its 60 employees inMiddletown, said branch manager David Joles. The company provides commercialpest control in a 120-mile area from Northern Kentucky to Wapakoneta, Ohio.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal">Subdivisions appear<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>Home buyers are buyinginto the concept, too. Along I-75 on Middletown's amoeba-like eastern edge,subdivisions are springing up on what used to be farmland. Homes priced at$200,000 are marketed to urban professionals who want more space.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Middletown's greatest assetis its location,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> saidJohn Sawyer, a home builder and owner of Sawyer Realtors in Middletown. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>The wife might work in Daytonand the husband in Cincinnati. You can be in Fountain Square in 40 minutes fromMiddletown, easy.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>New residents might besurprised by the amenities of their new home. Middletown has a symphonyorchestra and a fine arts center, a championship golf course and a branchcampus of Miami University. On the first weekend of October, it again hostedits Middfest International, a celebration of the culture and food of adifferent country every year, this time that of Greece.<o:p></o:p></p><p ="Ms&#111;normal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>Thereare still people in Cincinnati and Dayton who perceive us as being a grimy andindustrial town,<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span> Mr.Sawyer said. <span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span>It isn't.<span style="font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">�</span><o:p></o:p></p><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : It&amp;#039;s ok to disagree. I respect...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6699&amp;PID=49944&amp;title=hidden-news#49944</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=114">VietVet</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;24&nbsp;2018 at 2:15am<br /><br />It's ok to disagree. I respect your opinions.<br /><br />Ok Spider, let's review what you have posted here.......<br /><br />1st/2nd paragraphs:<br /><br />You mention that the downtown is improving and give your reasons for the improvement. You use the word "I" here many times. "I patronize a few....."<br />"I see more activity......" "I expect the see many ventures...."<br /><br />That is fine that YOU observe these things in the city. But my contention is that MOST Middletonians aren't like you and that you and those who think like you are in the vast minority of the population. I would guesstimate that your thinking represents less than 2-3% of the city. It IS a blue collar town and always has been. You know that, living here as long as I have. Let's face it, if you stereotype a blue collar person, arts and culture are nowhere to be found. IMO, your interests (arts/culture/gourmet food/specialty coffee shops) do not represent what most living here are interested in. Knowing that Middletown has been taken from a moderate income town to a low income city, most couldn't afford the asking prices on the art downtown anyway. HUD/low income people don't do the arts. I'm not interested in them myself. <br /><br />Spider:<br />"Many are beyond tired of having to travel elsewhere for even basic clothing and appliance needs"<br /><br />Oh, I don't know about that Spider. Is there a need to travel outside Middletown for better things? I just bought a nice GE built-in dishwasher from Lowes a week ago and it looks and performs just fine. Do you really need to buy a "top of the line" appliance to do the job. That GE cleans the dishes just a nicely as the Kitchen-Aid that went belly up on us a few weeks ago. Basic clothes? Hell, with the casual look of today, a pair of jeans and a T-shirt is appropriate for most days isn't it? Doesn't have to be Rockports, Dokkers (sp?) and dressy stuff for everyday does it? For Middletown, Kohl's is the upscale place to buy clothes isn't it?....and isn't that good enough for this city? <br /><br />You go on to "go negative" on the schools, the drug scene, crime, employment, appeal, etc. in the latter half of paragraph 2.<br /><br />Paragraph 3: <br />More criticism on elected officials and their lack of inclusion and forward change which is what I do often on this forum and you ask whether they should be in their positions at all which I also do quite often. <br /><br />Paragraph 4:<br />Then you contradict yourself here on the negative thing you mentioned in the previous paragraphs by saying.....<br /><br />"We need to step up to accentuate the positives and mentor our future generations to regain community pride and self-worth. Being a serial dependent, slacker or always negative force isn't helping."<br /><br />And....."I honestly believe in a lot of our city manager's/admin's intent, along with our police ands emergency depts."<br /><br />In paragraph 3, you told us about the elected and hired official merry-go-round and should they honestly continue in their positions and that communication skills need to be improved.You also told us that always being negative isn't helping us but what are some of the above comments you made other than being negative?<br /><br />Last paragraph:<br /><br />"So--shut up--step up--and do your part and more. Hopefully it will be contagious.<br />We all have equal responsibility to be as constructive as possible to improve our situation.<br />Should seem natural, and there honestly isn't a reasonable alternative."<br /><br />Shut up? Never. Not until we right the ship and get some competency in this city government. You know as well as I do, the city has gone down the toilet compared to what it once was. I see it. You see it. The difference between you and I is that you may accept the downgrade much more than I do. I am incensed the bastards have destroyed a once nice town. I am incensed the prior/current councils/city managers had so little disregard for this city they could have cared less that the decisions they made have resulted in this cluster f---  of a city operation. IMO, having seen what both of us have seen, and made comparisons between when the city was run competently and now, we both should be incensed as to it's current condition and reputation.  <br /><br />Step up? How? They don't want to hear any suggestions if it doesn't agree with their agenda. C'mon Spider, we both know that. They have their gameplan and if you suggest anything outside that gameplan, they close their little minds and do not listen to other ideas, especially if the ideas come from the "common rabble" and not the friends of the city. Exclusion is their game if you're not in the backroom, buddy back slapping crowd here. Has been that way for decades. You know this. <br /><br />Do your part? See above.<br /><br />Contagious? Naw. Too much apathy from the many who live here who don't have a clue how this city was in the good days. They are too new and are too non-caring to make any effort. Hell, we see that on voting day when the low voter turnout appears. Most of the apathetic people haven't even registered, much less get their lazy asses off the couch to go vote. Most newbies in this town just don't care about the city and are not in to contributing to it's success or change. They are here for the abundant HUD/low income programs and freebie handouts though. Uncaring users Spider, not contributors nor citizens we need to label as quality residents. The populace quality of this city has hit rock bottom IMO. Not as caring nor with as much self pride as generations before. Those here now simply want to use the handouts and move on. No pride. No ties. No life foundation. Just survival in the moment and move on to the next city with a handout opportunity. JMO<br /><br /> "We all have equal responsibility to be as constructive as possible to improve our situation."<br /><br />Hard to be constructive when you keep attempting to offer ideas and keep getting your nose pushed in the crap. Tend to give up when council and the city manager won't listen to your ideas. Try once, shame on them. Try twice, shame on me type of thing. <br /><br />Thank you for reading Spider.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br /><br /><br /><br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2018 02:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title>hidden news : Yes, Spider, there&amp;#039;s evidence...</title>
   <link>http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6699&amp;PID=49943&amp;title=hidden-news#49943</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1671">Analytical</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 6699<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> Mar&nbsp;24&nbsp;2018 at 1:53am<br /><br /><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Yes, Spider, there's evidence of&nbsp;</span><b style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><u>non</u>&nbsp;<u>city-subsidized</u></b><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">&nbsp;smaller commercial growth in the "downtown".&nbsp; However, the more prominent&nbsp;</span><b style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><u>city</u>-<u>subsidized&nbsp;</u></b><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">stalled "downtown" deals diminish and detract from what's positive.</span><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">The primary issue was/still is the city's record of costly and mostly ineffective "downtown" commercial redevelopment hand-outs.&nbsp; Maybe, just maybe, Doug Adkins and his staff will eventually become more competent when it comes to highest and best use, cost-effective and productive taxpayer-funded assistance priorities, policies, plans and programs&nbsp;</div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">There are local real estate, banking, commercial development, seasoned business professionals and resident advocates in the city who could and should be be called upon to help craft "real world" strategies for the "downtown" and older neighborhood areas.&nbsp; People such as Paul Renwick, Walter Leap, Steve Dillman, VietVet, Whistersmom, John Beagle, etc. need to be engaged.&nbsp; Back in 2007-08, this was the case insofar as the city's HUD-funded home ownership and owner-occupied housing rehabilitation initiatives were concerned.</div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">IMHO, the "brain trust" at One Donham Abbey needs to be much less isolated and more&nbsp;<b><u>meaningfully</u></b>&nbsp;resident inclusive in terms of assessing and creating various city redevelopment goals, objectives and programs.&nbsp; And, the Middletown Journal editorial staff needs to be somewhat less&nbsp;<i><b><u>Police Gazette</u></b></i>&nbsp;oriented in its reporting thereby promoting the city in a far more positive and hopeful light.</div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;"><br></div><div style="border: 0px; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Spider, VietVet may not be in total agreement, but, you both have a committed and long-lasting concern for the city.</div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
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