Middletown Forum : Holy cow! And the winner is: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Middletown Forum : City Council : Holy cow! And the winner is: Tue, 06 Oct 2026 08:06:06 +0000 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:29:20 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 10.12 360 www.middletownusa.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=840 Middletown Forum http://middletownusa.com/images/blog-logo.jpg http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/ Holy cow! And the winner is: : Here area couple moreCOMPELLING... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3660&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3660 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 10:29am

Here are a couple more COMPELLING REASONS:
 
First, these pinheads have just set a terrible precedent!!!  Give me one good reason why ANY potential vendor would bother to work very hard putting together a sharp bid for this city again, knowing that they were bidding against a current vendor with whom the city is satisfied???  I know that I wouldn't.  I've put together proposals, including presentations, such as the ones presented by the two other bidders.  It takes a lot of work, and it costs a fair bit of money, especially when the potential client keeps calling for re-bids, etc.  If I was ever asked to quote to the city of Middletown against a vendor with whom they are satisfied, I guarantee you that I'd throw together a quick SWAG number, multiply it by the age of an old alligator, double it, and then throw in another ton of fat--all BEFORE I added enough profit to choke giant anaconda, then submit the bid in about a two sentence letter.
 
Second, why in the world did they even go out "for bids"???  If they have a majority who believes that, as long as the city is satisfied with a vendor, they should NOT change vendors REGARDLESS of price, then they should NEVER go out "for bids" again!!!  In the future, when they go out 'for bids" they should DIS-ALLOW bids from the current vendor, since they "see no reason to change" regardless of price unless they are dis-pleased with the current vendor!!!  They should be asking potential vendors to submit:  "REASONS (other than price) WHY WE SHOULD RUN OFF OUR PRESENT VENDOR AND FAVOR YOU WITH AN ORDER INSTEAD!!!
 
Third, what they did was certainly unethical, and probably was ILLEGAL!!!  I'll wager that there was nothing in the instructions to bidders that indicated that the award would be based on "reasons to change vendors".  It has been quite a while since I've reviewed th ORC laws regarding competitive bidding, but I am fairly certain, that "no compelling reason to change" is NOT among the allowable justifications for refusing two LOWER bids ftom QUALIFIED, RESPONSIVE bidders!!!
]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:29:20 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3660&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3660 Holy cow! And the winner is: : 'No compelling... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3659&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3659 Author: Pacman
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 9:50am

'No compelling reason to change' Section 8 administrators

By Ed Richter

Staff Writer

Wednesday, January 07, 2009

Four members of Middletown City Council said the deciding factor to keep the current Section 8 program administrator was that there was not a compelling reason to change.

Council voted 4-3 on Tuesday, Jan. 6, to negotiate a three-year contract with CONSOC Housing Consultants of Columbus to administer the city's $9.74 million federally funded program of 1,662 housing choice vouchers.

Councilmen Tony Marconi, Bill Becker, David Schiavone and Vice Mayor Jim Armbruster voted to reject the recommendation of City Manager Judy Gilleland after a committee review of four proposals and vendor interviews.

"The system isn't broken," Marconi said. "CONSOC was doing what they were told to do for years. There was no compelling reason to change just for the need to change.

"We're looking for the best fit for the city and the citizens and I think CONSOC is the best fit."

Schiavone said he never received any complaints from tenants or landlords.

Schiavone was upset after hearing CONSOC's representatives say the city never responded to requests for meetings on the annual administrative plan, as well as with police, court officials and the city prosecutor to discuss several issues.

Schiavone sought an answer from Planning Director Martin Kohler, but Gilleland intervened, saying the council meeting wasn't the appropriate time.

Armbruster said he "hated" to hear CONSOC was told by past city administrations to "fly under the radar" and keep a low profile. He said there are a lot of misconceptions in the community about the Section 8 program.

Becker said he was unaware the administrative plan wasn't approved in 2006, which is when he retired as city manager.

He said it was true that CONSOC was told to keep the program low key. "That's very accurate," Becker said. "We privatized it and ran it that way for years."

While CONSOC's submitted the highest bid, the four council members felt it was close to the program's actual cost and a final amount would be negotiated.

]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:50:30 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3659&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3659 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Like others have said when we... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3656&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3656 Author: .308
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 9:37am

Like others have said when we boil this section 8 issue down to its core I think it should be pretty obvious what the citizens want. It’s not that we want everyone in the city to have a certain income level. It’s not that we object to those in need receiving assistance. It’s the disproportionate congregation of that demographic in our town.  And that’s a problem whose negative side effects reach so far and wide that they should not need enumerating.

One last comment about CONSOC that having worked in sales myself I can understand what they are doing. When working with a customer who has been a problem, whose job has been in one way or another considerably more difficult to manage or deliver than your average customer, you don’t really care if you get the next sale. When asked to bid the next job for that customer you raise your price. You spill the beans and blurt out how difficult the client has been to work with and you take every opportunity to point out that you have been made the scapegoat for the failings of others.

Been there, done that. And its ALWAS been a government entity as from experience few privately owned corporations ever become so mucked up to get themselves in that situation in the first place.

So if it’s more of the same I hope both sides can learn from their mistakes. Becaue something has to change.

]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:37:08 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3656&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3656 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Hey Mike- saw your message on... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3651&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3651 Author: VietVet
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 7:26am

Hey Mike- saw your message on the other site. I agree with your stance. It doesn't make any sense to award the bid to CONSOC because " there's no compelling reason to change". Weak reason. As you stated, a half mil isn't a compelling reason???? In a town strapped for money???? When money is needed for roads???? When water mains are breaking on Marshall and Manchester Roads???? How about the notion that by choosing CONSOC over the lower priced services, that perhaps,just perhaps, a few people in this city are receiving fed money from CONSOC to fit into their pocket??? Or pushing Section 8 clients their way as landlords???       Naw, probably not! ]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:26:53 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3651&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3651 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Gee M Mom- why don't you... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3650&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3650 Author: VietVet
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 7:12am

Gee M Mom- why don't you just tie us up on the railroad tracks and wait for the train to come. POLITICIANS??? I echo Mike's- Well, I never!!! No, some of us are just "outsiders" who haved lived in this city since the early 50's and have seen "not for the better" changes made over the years and we're not too happy about them nor with the people who created the changes. ]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:12:09 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3650&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3650 Holy cow! And the winner is: : MadisonMom wrote:I would swear... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3649&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3649 Author: Mike_Presta
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 3:39am

Originally posted by MadisonMom MadisonMom wrote:

I would swear to anyone that all of you guys are politicians.
 
Well, I never...Shocked!!!
 
If you don't like us, FINE!!!  But there is no need to INSULT us like THAT!!! 
 
LOL LOL LOL 
]]> Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:39:28 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3649&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3649 Holy cow! And the winner is: : You guys are killing !!!! So... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3647&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3647 Author: MadisonMom
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 10:32pm

You guys are killing !!!! So much reading........I will check out TVM. I would swear to anyone that all of you guys are politicians.]]> Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:32:19 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3647&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3647 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Enjoy Section 8 CGI Present... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3646&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3646 Author: Pacman
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 9:22pm

EnjoyExclamation
 
Section 8 CGI Presentation
 
http://tvmiddletown.blip.tv/#1654747
 
Section 8 Consoc Presentation
 
http://tvmiddletown.blip.tv/#1654538
 
Section 8 Nelson & Associates Presentation
 
http://tvmiddletown.blip.tv/#1654292
 
 
]]> Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:22:13 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3646&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3646 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Mike you are exactly right about... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3645&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3645 Author: Pacman
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 7:04pm

Mike you are exactly right about last night.  I also happen to turn on the TV just as the Section 8 presentations started and watched all 3 of them.  Just on the presentations Nelson & Associates was by far the best choice for this contract.  On Cost I would give it to Nelson also.

Consoc's presentation was just as you described it, basically they were in defensive mode the whole time and Kohler ended up on the Hot Seat.  Personally I think he has been the driving force behind the whole Section 8 debacle all along.  Kohler has basically become the City Managers go to person I hear so I wouldn't hold my breath on Kohler leaving anytime soon.

I found it very interesting when Council wanted to hear from Kohler, but the City Manager about came out of her Chair and put a stop to that.  I am sure they are re-grouping now on what Kohler will say if he is ever questioned about Consoc's claims.
 
Several things I found interesting:
 
1)  It is my understanding that all 3 of the companies involved were provided the others bids and told to give their best and lowest cost to admin the program.  Consoc came in about $500k higher than the lowest qualified bid and still got the nod.  I am still shaking my head at that one.
 
2)  Understanding that the City Manager and Consultants and Committees recommendations are just that Council still chose to ignore all of them.  This puzzles me as to why even bother with any of them, is it just for show or just a waste of time or both.
 
3)  When the City Manager requested that Council chose 2 firms to negotiate with, I fail to understands Councils reluctance to do this.   The Council just once again blew her off. The way it has ended up why would Consoc even bother to negotiate other than maybe to throw in a 5% decrease just for show.  By having the lowest bidder who was also qualified negotiating at the same time you most likely would have gotten a better deal.  If this was supposedly Consoc's best price after seeing all of the other bids......I just don't get it.  I understand these funds are not coming from the General Fund but from the Federal Government, but this does not make sense in the way Council is handling it.
 
4)  A second motion was made, after Marconi's motion to go ahead with Consoc passed, asking that a second firm to be chosen by council to be negotiated with at the same time as Consoc and I fail to understand Council not passing this motion as it would have added nothing to the time that will be needed to negotiate with Consoc and probably saved some $$$$$. 
 
5)  There seems to be something going on with Consoc and Council that just isn't kosher.  I don't know what but this just seems wrong the way this has ended up.  There were no significant reasons given that I saw for choosing Consoc when they were so much higher than Nelson, other than they have been doing it for 17-19 years.  Mulligan was exactly right in his speech just before the vote and he spoke well about what he thought should happen.  Marconi ranted and Becker and Schiavone said little or nothing of substance, Armbruster well he was there.
 
For Ms. Scott-Jones you continue to talk about Forbes and each time you seem to be locked onto one thing the lack of residents with College degrees.  The Forbes article mentioned Poverty, Education, Wages, Jobs etc.  For any business coming to Middletown 22% below poverty level is a deal breaker, maintaining the Section 8 program as it currently is in Middletown adds to the bottom line of Poverty in Middletown.   When I came to Middletown poverty was at 12% and I deemed that acceptable as a business owner to operate a business in Middletown.  At 22% and most likely rising it is no longer viable for many small businesses.   If the City Council continues on it's current path it will destroy what remains of this town in short order.  Council needs to adopt a new Mantra of, "DO WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY AS A WHOLE" to get Middletown back on its feet.   Failure to do that will result in the demise of Middletown in the not to distant future.

 

]]> Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:04:47 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3645&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3645 Holy cow! And the winner is: : Spider-I would like to respond... http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3637&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3637 Author: VietVet
Subject: 840
Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 12:34pm

Spider-I would like to respond to your post by addressing some of your comments to match my thinking-- Yes, credit Scott-Jones, Ford and (it's killing me to admit it?) Mulligan for the correct decision in a losing cause. Just wish they would have made an effort to emphasize their position in a more "insistent" manner. Mr. Marconi- he's my ward rep and I have spoken to him a few times. He is very cordial, both on the phone and when speaking face to face on most subjects. When he is not sitting behind that Council desk, he appears ok to approach, but I guess he puts on his "power face" during Council meetings and takes on a new demeanor of "his way or the highway" when making decisions. He loves to dominate a conversation when playing Councilman approaching the point of being obnoxious. Becker- I disagree- He IS and always was "an overwhelming like-minded majority member". I can't see any redeeming value in his approach and his thinking. He is a solid "Darth Vader" member and , based on his attitude demonstrated during his tenure as street repair committee chair, is also obnoxious, egotistical, stubborn and refuses to recognize any "outsider" opinion. I really don't like the man at all. The " Darth Vader" group can spend all the money they want on their candidates. They can exclude all outsiders on committees,boards, etc. they want. The key for the " outsiders" is to rally the non-Vader voters in such numbers as to overwhelm the Vader candidate voters with the end result being the replacement of the majority of the Council (and School Board) to gain controlling votes for another direction in all aspects of this city.( We "outsiders" all know this, of course) Perhaps, if all goes well, we can replace these people who have brought this city to it's knees. For the sake of the city, it needs to happen soon.]]> Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:34:26 +0000 http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=840&PID=3637&title=holy-cow-and-the-winner-is#3637