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Wednesday, June 7, 2023 |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Give ya a little insight to my MindSet.............Afterall 80% of my ramblings are becoming reality |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Should you be bored enough to read the rest of the above thread............Linking to TrentonTalk is easier then copy and pasting the whole thread.... |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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If SNAP is in-fluxing $80 million per year into Butler County via 3800 eligible persons....And there are 45 million persons in the program nationwide...Just exactly where is this money coming from? 7% in the USA are receiving those benefits, approx 2 million in Ohio. Not only are they receiving funds which could be used elsewhere, They are not contributing to the local tax base at the desired rate. If any thing keeping the salaries and jobs up on your city employees could possibly help stimulate and maintain the local economy...Cut the salaries or jobs of your public sector and watch another class start cutting corner and not spending money, ....See the vicious circle..
The worse that you can do is keep contributing to the circle by cutting jobs.......... Cutting costs and cutting jobs are two different things. |
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tomahawk35 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() ![]() Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Governments in black
Citzen living in cardboard boxes
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Typical response from KeyBoard Commandos..............Nothing. You gripe , whine, cry, whatever you want to call it and not one of ya can articulate a good reason with proof or documentation of why one person is better than another. There is no magic mayor, city manager or council member that will change the past mistakes. It takes a group effort to clean up a mess which has gotta out of hand, sure you gripe and want heads to roll........But yet you offer no viable solutions, because most do not understand the workings of how your tax base and local governments are used and funded. You have to understand "why" to truly fix a problem or the only thing you will accomplish is to react and fight the symptoms, wasting money.
Middletown has took some major hits to the tax revenue in the last few years. I bet most on here who are quick to judge , cannot even name the major players which are gone....Middletown also has too many "tax exempt" properties. They need to lean toward infrastructure which the people are using....
Criticizing is easy; solutions are hard. |
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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[QUOTE=HdMechanical] Typical response from KeyBoard Commandos..............Nothing. You gripe , whine, cry, whatever you want to call it and not one of ya can articulate a good reason with proof or documentation of why one person is better than another. There is no magic mayor, city manager or council member that will change the past mistakes. It takes a group effort to clean up a mess which has gotta out of hand, sure you gripe and want heads to roll........But yet you offer no viable solutions, because most do not understand the workings of how your tax base and local governments are used and funded. You have to understand "why" to truly fix a problem or the only thing you will accomplish is to react and fight the symptoms, wasting money. Middletown has took some major hits to the tax revenue in the last few years. I bet most on here who are quick to judge , cannot even name the major players which are gone....Middletown also has too many "tax exempt" properties. They need to lean toward infrastructure which the people are using.... Ok HD, I'll offer some comments here to your post......let's take it step by step.... "Nothing. You gripe , whine, cry, whatever you want to call it and not one of ya can articulate a good reason with proof or documentation of why one person is better than another" FOR STARTERS, NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT ON ONE PERSON BEING BETTER THAN ANOTHER. "There is no magic mayor, city manager or council member that will change the past mistakes" ACTUALLY, THE CURRENT "MAGIC" MAYOR, CITY MANAGER AND COUNCIL ARE NOT TRYING TO CHANGE THE PAST MISTAKES. RATHER, THEY ARE MERELY ADDING TO THE LIST OF PAST MISTAKES WITH THEIR OWN CONTRIBUTIONS IN GUIDING THIS CITY ON THE WRONG PATH TO CORRECT IT. IMO, THEY HAVE ACTUALLY ADDED TO THE POOR DECISIONS OF THE PAST 4 DECADES HERE. JUST PUTTING THEIR OWN BRAND ON A TOWN WITH A BAD REPUTATION, NO JOB GROWTH, LOW-INCOME THEME, QUESTIONABLE INTERNAL OPERATIONS WITHIN THE CITY GOVERNMENT, INCLUSIVE FOR A SMALL CONTINGENT WHILE BEING EXCLUSIVE FOR THE MAJORITY LIVING HERE, AND, IN, GENERAL, A SHELL OF THE TOWN IT ONCE WAS WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL IN THE 60'S. "It takes a group effort to clean up a mess which has gotta out of hand" YES, AGREE, IT DOES TAKE A GROUP EFFORT AND WE "GRIPERS" WOULD LOVE TO PARTICIPATE AND OFFER OUR SOLUTIONS TO THE FOLKS IN DECISION-MAKING POSITIONS, BUT WE ARE NOT LISTENED TO. WE ARE IGNORED WHEN WE TRY TO TALK TO THEM DURING CITIZENS COMMENTS IN COUNCIL MEETINGS. FURTHERMORE, AND AN IMPORTANT ISSUE......OTHER THAN JOSH LAUBACH, WHO ON COUNCIL HAS HAD A COMMUNITY MEETING WHERE THE PEOPLE GET TO INTERACT AND ASK QUESTIONS AND OFFER IDEAS WITH THEIR COUNCILPEOPLE? DID MORT, PICARD OR THE TWO MULLIGANS OFFER ANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO MEET WITH THEM AND TALK? NOPE. NOT ONE MEETING SINCE OLD LARRY MULLIGAN SAT BEHIND THAT COUNCIL DESK. HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING FROM US. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY WE HOLD PEOPLE LIKE THAT WITH DISDAIN? EVEN A SNAKE BITES BACK IF YOU STEP ON IT ONCE TOO OFTEN. HE IGNORES US. WE REACT. "But yet you offer no viable solutions, because most do not understand the workings of how your tax base and local governments are used and funded. You have to understand "why" to truly fix a problem or the only thing you will accomplish is to react and fight the symptoms, wasting money." BUT WE DO KNOW HOW THIS GOVERNMENT WORKS AND HOW IT IS FUNDED. AS EVIDENCE, I OFFER PAST POSTS FROM VERY INFORMED PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED IN THIS CITY FOR DECADES.....OR ALL OF THEIR LIVES AND HAVE SEEN THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. WE HAVE OFFERED SOLUTIONS.....ONES BASED ON FACTS, RESEARCH AND LOGIC.....TO NO AVAIL. THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR US Hd. OH, AND WE ARE TOTALLY AWARE OF THE MONEY WASTED IN THIS CITY, NOT TO MENTION THE SHIFTING OF FUNDS FROM ONE SOURCE TO ANOTHER TO "SUDDENLY" FIND MONETARY RESOURCES TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR LITTLE PET PROJECTS WHILE CLAIMING TO BE CASH STRAPPED AS GILLELAND HAS DONE IN THE PAST. "Middletown has took some major hits to the tax revenue in the last few years" YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ANY OF US. SOME OF US WERE HERE IN THE 50'S AND 60'S WHEN THE PAPER MILLS AND ARMCO WAS GOING STRONG. WHEN ARMCO HAD 9000 EMPLOYEES AND HAD A HAND IN MOST EVERYTHING GOING ON IN THE CITY. SOME OF US REMEMBER A VERY VIBRANT DOWNTOWN SO FULL OF PEOPLE ON A SATURDAY YOU HAD TO WALK IN THE STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH ROOM ON THE SIDEWALKS. I WAS ON HAND WHEN MUM WAS BEING BUILT HAVING A SUMMER JOB PLACING DESKS IN LOGAN JOHNSON HALL AND GARDNER-HARVEY LIBRARY. THE TOWN WAS ALIVE BACK THEN......SO MUCH MORE HEALTHY THAN NOW. LAST FEW YEARS???? TRY THE LAST 4 DECADES. "I bet most on here who are quick to judge , cannot even name the major players which are gone." OH, HOW ABOUT BILL DONHAM. HOW ABOUT RON OLSEN. HOW ABOUT BILL BECKER AND FRED "I HELPED PUT IN THE CITY CENTRE MALL" SENNETT AND HIS OTHER 70'S COUNCIL MEMBERS. HOW ABOUT THE CREW OF CITY COMMISSIONERS THAT SCREWED UP LAKE MIDDLETOWN AND BICENTENNIAL COMMONS AND COST THE CITY $350,000 IN FINES FROM THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS FOR ILLEGALLY REMOVING THE DAM AND RELEASING SILT OUT IN THE RIVER? ON THE GOOD SIDE, HOW ABOUT BILL KLOSTERMAN, THE CITY ENGINEER, WHO HAD ALL THE BOULEVARD SYSTEMS PUT IN TO MAKE GETTING AROUND TOWN MUCH EASIER? GOOD CITY MANAGER BACK THEN. GOOD DECISIONS BENEFITTING ALL CITIZENS, NOT A SELECT FEW BACK THEN TOO. AND HERE'S ONE FOR THE FUTURE FOR YA....HOW ABOUT THE CURRENT CITY COUNCIL. MEMBERS LIKE LARRY MULLIGAN, THE OTHER MULLIGAN, DAN PICARD, ANN MORT, ANITA SCOTT-JONES AND, AT TIMES, JOSH LAUBACH, WHO KEPT APPROVING MILLIONS TO THROW INTO A DOWNTOWN THAT WILL PROBABLY NEVER REACH THE PINNACLE OF HEIGHT THEY EXPECT IT TO. THE GIVAWAYS OF TAXPAYER MONEY. THE PROPERTY PURCHASES WITH TAXPAYER MONEY. THE FAVORITISM, THE NEGLECT OF 90% OF THE CITY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE DOWNTOWN DREAM THEY ALL HAVE. WHY? THIS WILL JOIN THE FAILURE LIST IN YEARS TO COME IT IS ALL ABOUT BEING MIS-FOCUSED AND NOT HAVING A CLUE WHAT THIS TOWN NEEDS NOR WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE ALL ABOUT. THE PEOPLE IN THE CITY BUILDING AND SITTING BEHIND THE COUNCIL DESK ARE JUST SIMPLY OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY AS TO THE CITY'S SITUATION. WE ARE CASH STRAPPED AND SO DESPERATE FOR REVENUE THAT THE CITY LEADERS INVITED SECTION 8/LOW INCOME TO TOWN TO GAIN HUD MONEY RATHER THAN TO DO IT THROUGH NEW JOBS AND CORPORATE TAXES. FOR ANY FAMILY (OR CITY) BUDGET, THAT MEANS YOU ELIMINATE THE EXTRAS AND FOCUS ON THE BASICS FOR NOW....UNTIL YOU CAN BUILD UP THE REVENUES......THEN YOU START ADDING ICING TO THE CAKE...SLOWLY, BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE THE BASICS FIRST...IE-WATER, SEWER, DECENT ROADS, POLICE, FIRE. SAFETY FOR THE PEOPLE. PAY THE NECESSARY CITY BILLS AND PLACE WHATEVER REMAINS IN A FUND FOR CITY EMERGENCIES. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN SENDING IT TO DREAMLAND PET PROJECTS EITHER! MY OFFERING. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Interesting....One might say, hopefully we can continue this later...........I have become busy at work and one must get it, while it is there....Hopefully a solution will crop up before I return, but we all know different even though we have conflicting views..
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tomahawk35 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() ![]() Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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tomahawk35 ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() ![]() Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Please don't try to insult people with comments like keyboard commados like you are all knowledgeable about every aspect of the workings of the government. I have worked for the government for over 20 yrs. The real truth is the government takes care of its own and doesn't care about the rest of us no matter what they say, a spade is a spade. If there is nothing to gain then you are out of luck and as far as being a solution good luck. I see this every day at work and that's the way it was when I started and it will be like that way after I leave this world. |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Interesting......But to be honest , I really never said much about knowing the workings of the government, I am bringing to light the funding of the government entities and how it affects people, public or private....We all know, they are about self-preservation regardless of outcome.. People really do not understand the reasoning behind some government decisions............. We have the ability to go 100% solar power, 100% recycled waste water at each residence, each vehicle has the ability to run on NG or propane........Any of those options blur the line of traditional funding for governments, Less consumer spending equals less taxbase funding.... Imagine never having another water bill or electric bill, imagine the uproar of your local government when your slash those costs.........No more revenue from those services. Some communities that have given hospitals tax exempt property status to build in their locale are now considering adding a tax per bed . Same for hope houses and other non-profits... Middletown must create jobs, regardless of whether min wage or above..........This assures that the support services do not leave, IE: doctors, lawyers, realtors, eateries, dealerships, stores, etc..... Some companies, I included have gambled on Middletown's future to prosper we have used the economy turndown to better our infrastructure and position ourselves for the upswing.....Just hope the wait isn't much longer
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Pacman ![]() Prominent MUSA Citizen ![]() ![]() Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Mr. Poff; Concerning your above quote and just out of curiosity... Who is going to feed the education beast if the citizens whose children use the education system Do Not? Do you have a source that will provide $40M in School Building funds if the citizens agree to pay the $55M balance on $95M? Personally I know of No One that will cough up $40M for the city of Middletown to build it's schools. No person or Organization. It makes little sense to me to throw away $40M of State Funds thus making the Middletown Citizens responsible for the total $95M if and when they come to their senses and decide they need new schools. Pacman ![]() |
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Hd Mechanical:
"Middletown must create jobs, regardless of whether min wage or above" Disagree with "regardless of whether min wage or above" statement.... Middletown has a disproportionate number of min wage jobs now. Too many fast food/ low wage industrial park/ cashier/ waitress/ mini-mart jobs and not enough medical/ high tech industrial/ "professional" level paying jobs offered here. That's why many, including myself, leave town each day and get on I-75 to go out of town to work. Nothing to chose from here that will provide a decent standard of living. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"It makes little sense to me to throw away $40M of State Funds thus making the Middletown Citizens responsible for the total $95M if and when they come to their senses and decide they need new schools.
Pacman" Sorry Pac. I'm on the other side of the fence when talking about school support. Not logical to throw away more taxpayer money through a bond levy to build more new schools for this district when we haven't seen much improvement from the new elementary, 45 million dollar bond levy. The school people must show that the investment made years ago was worth it before we give them more of our money. To date, hasn't happened IMO. The logic that we must approve more money because now is our only chance to "put in 40 million to get 55 million from the state" seems to be the reason of choice for people like Ms. Andrew, the levy supporters and yourself. To me, it sounds like that is the only reason to approve the levy, rather than have this middle school be a benefit to the district AS TO IMPROVING OPERATIONS, IMPROVING THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE OR BENEFITING THE COMMUNITY. The levy supporters can't use that reasoning because it hasn't happened as yet and they know it. It appears the overwhelming reason to support the levy, suggested by the pro-levy people, is that we must approve this bond levy just because the state is offering to pay for more than half, and if we don't use it we lose it. Sounds desperate to me. IMO, THAT is a misdirected reason and doesn't attack the real reasons for the stagnated performance. New schools DO NOT NECESSARILY MEAN A BETTER DISTRICT NOR RESULTS AND HAS BEEN PROVEN WITH THE NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOL REPORT CARD. They have not made enough progress to have made the investment seem worth it. JMO |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Personally , I no longer debate school levies I just vote "No"...... The funding has already been ruled unconstitutional and they snub their noses at us , and continue to hold their hands out while doing nothing to cut costs. Today's technology is there to dramatically cut public school costs.....Even the schools today are using "YouTube Videos" to teach math. I have home schooled 5 children, I have had my children in the public school....I have 3 computers on the way here Thursday from ECOT .... Our plan established a strong foundation in reading and math during early childhood home school and let them finish up in the public school system if they wanted to. There are Pros and Cons to both choices... Al I can say .........If you have children, whichever choice you make do not allow them to shortcut reading and math skills.. 4 hrs a week strengthening those skills is a small investment in your child's future and if you leave their education to someone else you have no one else to blame but YOU if they fail. But back on topic............ Who is going to feed the education beast if the citizens whose children use the education system Do Not? Your ^^^^^^^^ quote above is the the problem in a nutshell, do you realize the bulk of the children who use the education system is not supported by the parents of those children. Only property owners supply the funding for schools. Businesses and personal thru property tax and some screwed up kilowatt tax on electric companies. I favor additional taxes , provided everyone pays the same...I would rather property taxes be abolished and taxes placed on consumables across the board.....Electric use, water use , Internet, phone, garbage ETC.....Oh did you know there is a $1 per tire tax on tire sold in Ohio...... The school funding or really any government funding must be applied across the board to be effective long term.....Payroll taxes are fine if everyone is working, the loss of local tax thru 1099 workers and cash/undertable workers is tremendous. property tax if everyone owned property. Sales and use tax is the closest I believe we will ever come to having consistent funding for any public entity. Even if there is no jobs, people still use certain services. Even if they move in with a relative due to hardship the use of those services increase in the household , not much but better than nothing as now. Plus we catch those off the grid workers for cash in that net... |
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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The cost to educate young people across the state is significant and those costs continue to rise. More Ohio tax dollars are spent for primary and secondary education than for any other single governmental function. The complexities of school finance practically require that taxpayers have the equivalent of a finance degree in order to understand how the money is spent. While it is increasingly difficult to understand the complexities of how schools within the state of Ohio are funded, it is also increasingly critical that taxpayers understand these issues in order to be informed voters.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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I agree, I used to drive 56 miles one way.......... But to fund local services , any city payroll tax min or high wage is better then nothing....Just min wage jobs are easier to create. Remember that "nickle" , it feeds the beast, LOL
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Mike_Presta ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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There is something to consider that is akin to an "unfunded mandate", and that is the $40 million dollars the state is dangling for the completion of our building program. Along with this $40 million comes strict requirements for the new middle school and the remodeled high school that jacks the total cost up to an astronomical (at least in the view of some) $95 million dollars! $55 million of this must come from the local taxpayers in the form of a new tax levy.
Given that the school district already owns all of the property involved, does anyone think that $95 million dollars is out of line to build a new middle school and to remodel the existing high school???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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"The funding has already been ruled unconstitutional and they snub their noses at us"
THEN WHY ARE THE SCHOOLS STILL ALLOWED TO PLACE LEVIES ON THE BALLOT? SOMETHING DOESN'T COMPUTE HERE. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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It stands until another solution is found...............Keep giving them money and there is no reason for them to change. Requires a complete overhaul of the taxing system, something no politician will even attempt ...Would be political suicide.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/25/15-years--no-school-funding-fix.html
Kasich says to expect his school-funding plan next year. While it’s designed to move more dollars into the classroom, he predicts it won’t make everyone happy.
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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SO THE CRITERIA FOR CONTINUING TO IGNORE THE DECREE OF UNCONSTITUTIONALITY AND THE BREAKING OF THE LAW IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER SOLUTION FOR NOW? BIZARRE REASONING AND LOGIC. ONCE IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THE FUNDING WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABOLISHED. ISN'T THIS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR, AND AS SUCH, THOSE RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE CHARGED? EXACTLY HOW'S THAT WORK IN THIS CASE? ONCE IT WAS DECIDED, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENFORCED. NOT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON FOR THE POLITICAL SUICIDE RISK. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Your government at work.................
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VietVet ![]() MUSA Council ![]() ![]() Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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PUBLIC HANGINGS ARE IN ORDER AT THE FED, STATE AND LOCAL LEVELS. I'LL BUY THE ROPE AT THE LOCAL TRACTOR SUPPLY IF SOMEONE HAS A FEW TREES ON THEIR PROPERTY WITH SOME STURDY BRANCHES. NEED A DATE, SEND OUT THE INVITATIONS, CALL THE VENDORS AND ORDER THE SOUNDTRACK OF HANG 'EM HIGH TO PLAY DURING THE CEREMONY ALSO. ![]() |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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HdMechanical ![]() MUSA Resident ![]() Joined: Jun 23 2013 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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You would have to go to a National forest to find enough trees.......... Let just hope some scared socialist wannabe doesn't misinterpret your post and you end up spread eagle, cavity searched and home ransacked. I will not have anyone to chat with...
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