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Mr.PawnBroker View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 3:24pm
Does anyone know if middletown has any type of loitering laws. There is a mission/church that moved in right next to my store on central. And while I applaude anyone that wants to help out the needy, it attracts people that just want to hang outside all day. I've ran them off from the front of my store but they slowy return. I don't want to waste the cops time with this stuff but its getting bad. I've had many customers tell me that they are afraid to come in because there is basically a mob outside. The people that manage the property say there is something in the lease but they don't/won't do anything. I am just looking for suggestions. I would like to tell them all to get the F*** outta here but I'm afraid of finding a brick thru my window.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 4:59pm

There should be some loitering laws, but you can put a sign out front that says no loitering that might help.

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 8:43pm

Mr. Broker,

I' pretty sure that Middletown does have loitering laws.  If I have time later, I will find it, copy it, and post it sometime overnight.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 8:56pm
You can't Loiter to Solicit for a Sex act
You can't loiter to sell drugs
You can't loiter in the Garage downtown
 
But as far as I could see you can sleep in Middle of the sidewalk anytime you want and block a business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 11:53pm

Only thing the city likes ran out are  businesses,loiterers and such are permited as long as they don't try to work or start a business.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 6:57am

Mr. Broker:

In my research of both the Middletown Codified Ordinances (MOC) and the Ohio Revised Code (ORC), all that I could find that may apply is possibly “Disorderly Conduct” if the number or positions of the people loitering “hinders the movement” of others either along the sidewalk or to or from your establishment. In my opinion, this would be a rather “subjective” judgment, but might be enough to get a “suggestion to move along” from a sympathetic officer who is not having a busy shift. (Perhaps monitoring a police scanner and making a call on a slow day when the sidewalk is especially crowded would afford your best opportunity for success.) I have pasted the disorderly conduct sections from both the MCO and the ORC below for your convenience. It’s your call.

You did mention the possibility of a “brick through the window.” It’s more of a stretch, but if you feel “threatened,” and it is the same person(s) frequently loitering near your “place of employment” you might be able to make a case for stalking. (I couldn’t, but you might.)

MCO § 648.04 DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

(a) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another, by doing any of the following:

(1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;

(2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display, or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;

(3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;

(4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

ORC 2917.11 Disorderly conduct.

(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

(1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;

(2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;

(3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;

(4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

I hope that this helps.

What might be more interesting to the rest of us is this: What you might notice above, as I’ve been noticing for quite some time, the MCO and the ORC sections copied above are word-for-word exactly identical!!!

I have found this to be true for section after section and page after page of the two documents. It would make more sense to me if, instead of all of the repetition, Middletown would accept the ORC, and limit the MCO only to what they want different. This would eliminate, oh, eight or nine hundred pages, and save thousands of dollars every time our ordinances have to be re-codified. Perhaps one of the real attorneys that occasionally stops by here will read this and, if this is not reasonable or legal, explain why. If it is, they could suggest it to MMF, and take the credit, and MMF could tell the city to do it. All I care about is trying to save our city some dough.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 7:11am
Nice Find Mike.  When it comes to City Ordinances and 1000's of pages it pays to use the right search term.  It wasn't loitering, trespassing, sidewalk, business, etc.Wink
 
Mr. Pawnbroker I wouldn't hesitate to call the Police each and every time your business is impacted by these clowns.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr.PawnBroker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 8:31am
Thanks for the replys....I don't feel threated by them, but I've had many customers say they feel weird coming in to my shop. Maybe I should make a list of all my customers and complain and take that to the police.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 8:53am
PawnBroker, I have been thru this in My business several times, the difference being it was in a shopping center.  Much more effective to call the Police while it is happening and have them go talk to them, get names and give warnings.  I never felt threatened either, but in business it is how your customers feel and perceive your business.  Let the cops deal with it and have an attorney write a letter to the landlord about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr.PawnBroker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 9:34am
I guess I will just start calling the police all the time. I don't know what else to do and I'm sick of them just hanging out all day. I don't know how people can just roam around all day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Mr.PawnBroker Mr.PawnBroker wrote:

I'm sick of them just hanging out all day. I don't know how people can just roam around all day.
I don't understand either!!!  When do they sleep??? LOL LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr.PawnBroker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 10:20am
I don't think they sleep. I get to work by 8am and they are already roaming around. You would think that without a job they would atleast sleep in late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 15 2010 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

Nice Find Mike.  When it comes to City Ordinances and 1000's of pages it pays to use the right search term. 
Pac,
You just have to think like a lawyer!!!  They write the laws. Who else could concoct a rule about basically doing nothing and end up calling it disorderly conduct???  LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PattiGal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2010 at 8:22am
Hi Mr Pawnbroker...I am a fellow business-owner here in Middletown. At the risk of sounding naive, have you attempted to talk to your mission neighbor? It might not help at all...but after many years of doing this, I have to say it is in your very best interest to stay on the good side of the fellow tennants if at all possible (and I realize that sometimes it isn't). You have already mentioned the brick-throwing possibility- which is a horrible outcome. If/when you attempt to contact the police or your landlord, the first thing they will ask you is how your neighbor responded. It would be best if you have that info documented to give them. Just a suggestion from someone who really knows your pain. Good Luck!!!
"Because nice matters..."
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