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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jun 17 2010 at 6:58am |
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What's the sudden need for Kohler to ask that council not oversee his Planning Department operation on conditional usage? If anyone needs to be "overseen" , it's Kohler. He's a sneaky little man with a secretive style about him. Got his own little agenda of selective elimination of businesses coming and going in this city. Someone has got to watch this guy and limit his actions. He has demonstrated that he wants a "behind the scenes" type of program for his department and wants to dictate his personal desires as he has done with the I-75 "Gateway" development. He needs to go.....now. Better do something about this council. AJ, Josh, Ms. Scott-Jones.....better put a stop to his agenda. It is hurting the city.
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High Speed Rail??
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 28 2010 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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It was our super intellectual Marty who raved about how the growth of Section 8 rental units had stabilized older, vulnerable neighborhoods. He spoke so proudly of how the influx of Section 8 units were stabilizing property values and conditions in the most challenging portions of Wards 1 and 2.
And, now, we have Mr. "Former Downtown" Adkins who is surreptitiously taking Federal funds from neighborhood improvement grants and implementing commercial acquisition/demolition projects insstead. How sad that he has a blank check and nobody seems concerned or asks badly needed probing questions?
To coin a phrase of Viet Vet, "What a City?"
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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And just how did Kohler think that the Section 8 program would stabilize property values and conditions in the 1st and 2nd Wards? If Section 8 does anything for property values, it LOWERS them as Section 8 people move into a once properous neighborhood. The perception, (perhaps the reality) is once a Section 8 property infiltrates a neighborhood, the beginning of the end starts for a downward trend for that neighborhood. How could it increase conditions for a neighborhood, as Kohler states, when it doesn't contribute in a positive, upward manner to the current conditions? If anything, I would think that a Section 8 house on the block helps lower the neighborhood stature. All of this, of course, depends on the Section 8 home owners and how they screen and oversee what their tenants are doing in and to the house. Hopefully, most owners have decent people occupying their properties.
Mr. Adkins is like Mr. Robinette- The Blitzkrieg Boys....They love to tear things down and leave empty lots giving us that "War Zone" look. What A City! |
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I joined this forum because I did not like what I saw going on at City Hall. I now find myself NOT Posting because in most cases I would be DEFENDING City Hall, something I didn't want to do.
I find that I am coming to O'bama's rescue on most of the Conservative Sites I frequent as the criticism is often so far skewed and to the extreme that I come off, while trying maintain sanity on the Site, as an O'bama Supporter which I am not. How does that relate here? Same damn situation. Instead of Intellectual discussion about what changes need to place in the "All American City", the tone is usually a bunch rambling nonsense. Some Forum Members actually change their ID regularly so as not to be too obvious about the Ranting. In this case you all have made me defend Marty. Now Marty is no doubt a decent Human Being but He clearly is Bureaucrat and thus, a bit incompetent. That is not a slight against him but rather, against the accepted way People in his position function now a Days.. So your "extreme" Rambling force me to do what I don't what too. The whole point of the Strealining is that traditional methods for dealing with conditional uses has , many times, been far too slow to satisfy the Market. A Busoiness can't wait forever for the Bureaucrats to get their Ducks in row before the Business can commit to a project. The Streamlining is hoped to resolve that. As to Section 8. I too share the concerns, I don't share the the anger that others do about it. Why? I ask why be angry! The Demographic change in Middletown is no bodie's fault! The City could have handled MANY things better, but the root issue is NO one's fault. We have lost a ton of People, the Census will show that, and unfortunately they have been People of the Highest means. That has left LOTS of Houses empty. Without the section 8 debackle, we would be talking about all the empty, deteriorating Houses and WHY doesn't the City do something. It wouldn't suprise me if one you, in the coourse of Rambling, might even say, "why didn't they fill the Houses with Section 8 People, that would be better than having them empty". This shouldn't be a Therapy Site, it should be a Site for real Discussion. Venting accomplishes nothing. |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Your logic is flawed. The issue of so much Section 8 is the direct fault of the City and it's employees. The 1662 vouchers did not materialize out of thin air. They were applied for by City Employees and given by HUD. In my opinion as a source of revenue for the city.
The issue for many is that the same people that created the Section 8 issue are the same ones now that are still making decisions on the city's future and many do not trust their decision making abilities. When ever Section 8 and how we got to this number of vouchers is discussed we get the, "it doesn't matter how we got here or who did it." But it does matter as we have Kohler and Becker who back in 2007 were in positions to know how this occurred.
I fully understand the streamlining process that is being discussed. For many it is a lack of confidence in the city leadership and it's employees to make the right decisions that is the problem. When you are constantly just recycling the same people over and over to different positions it reaches a point where trust goes out the window.
You have Marconi for example who was voted off of Council and then where does he end up on the Planning Commission. The people voted him out for a reason and then he is appointed to the second most powerful commission in the city, soon it may be the most powerful commission in determining the cities future growth. People are tired of the same old do nothing but cater to select groups and never making any progress.
If all you are going to do is operate your city according to what is best for the lowest common demographic all of the time then you are going to end up with a disaster, which is pretty much what we have now. The east end project is not going to save Middletown as it will draw no new residents to Middletown just people seeking a job and then they will go home to Monroe, West Chester, Mason, Springboro, Etc. just as most of the City Hall employees do each day.
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High Speed Rail??
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 28 2010 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Irisner -
The statements I provided were uttered from the mouth of Kohler.
The information I provided on misguided HUD expenditures and lost neighborhood improvement opportunities are proven fact.
I speak about people that I know. I'm well aware of their philosophies and personalities.
What's the basis for your commentary and critique of people like Viet Vet, me, etc.?
There's nothing wrong when a person seeks therapy or counsel. But, it's dangerous when people need to visit an OPTOMETRIST as they clearly can't see the forest from the trees!
Feel free to defend City Hall all that you want. Most people acknowledge that there's no rescue ship on the horizon that's headed to Gilleland's Island anytime soon.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Irisner- with all due respect, I will disagree with your statement "the demographic change in Middletown is nobody's fault" IMO, it certainly is the fault of past and current city leaders, both in the city building and sitting behind that council desk. THEY made the decisions to change the demographics of the town by accepting the overabundance of Section 8, no doubt to replace the lost revenue from the jobs that have vacated the city in the last 20 years. THEY made the decision that when they saw (as we citizens saw) Armco downsizing back in the 70's and the paper mills dying a slow death as the paper industry business went to China, that they would not have a sense of urgency to find alternative industries to replace Armco's and the papermill job presence in town. They saw jobs leave town and did NOTHING to offset the loss by making a concerted effort for replacement----YEARS AGO. Now, they have major competition from around the country for any company that indicates they want to relocate. Robinette has a snowball's change in hell of landing any big time companies in this town as no company will accept a low income/ low education level environment in which to do business. AK offices left for a more upscale climate in which to do business. So did Black-Clawson, who went to Mason-Montgomery Road. No, IMO, the blame (and frustration) is placed right where it ought to be- the city leaders and their inability to think past the end of their nose- past and present.
Solution instead of venting???- Need jobs in town. With jobs, people will earn money to spend on cars, groceries and yes, to find a home to buy which will relieve some of the numbers of vacant property. New city leadership both at the city building and behind that council desk. New people who will throw away the current handbook of operation and start from the beginning, correcting all the wrongs that have been committed by the current administration. You have to excise the cancer before you can proceed with treatment and, hopefully, a cure to the problems. Jobs, new people running the city, putting a stop to the ghetto theme by reducing Section 8 housing, helping low income to transition to middle income, having future plans for the town which are viable and logical and emulating success by copying what has worked in other cities as it applies to Middletown. JMO |
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I appreciate your civil answer. I agree we need Jobs,but with all due respect, why would any one invest here without massive amounts of Tax money kicked in the Deal? You mention Mason-Monty Rd. Think about it, want do they have that we don't? Good Interstate access and Green space. That means a whole lot and we have little of either. Now I will be the first to agree that our City Leaders in the past, and present too to some degree, have been inept and things could be SOMEWHAT better if they had not been so Loyal to the Old Money in Town. For a while it seemed that all they cared about was preserving Property Values for the Financial and Political Elite of the City and not showing concern for the Macro situation. However any one thinking Middletown will ever be even remotely like it ws in it's Hayday is sadly mistaken. We have to learn how to downsize with Class and order.Unfortunately that is going require wholesale Demolition of entire Neighborhoods probably. That will take time in the City's current Fiscal situation. Few on here like seeing Tax money spent, even when it's Federal, but Tax Money will have to spent and it will have to be Federal as we don't have it otherwise, The time it takes is either a period of high Sec 8 or very High abandoned/empty Housing Stock. Neither is good., Now if Wasteful or Pacman ( the two biggest Sec 8 opponents) would come out say they would rather have the empties as the Sec 8, I will respect THAT opinion. I doubt they will. Another answer would be to vote for a very large Tax Levy that could pay for a Bond to do all the Demo at once rather than do it over time with Fed Money. I would disagree with either opinion, but could respect them as legit opinions. I would love to here REAL answers,not bitching and "pretend" answer a\cause Folks the Jobs needed to salvage this situation is NEVER going to come, even if Packie and Wasteman were in Charge! You all have a Good Day! Larry |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Irisner- what does the Mason Montgomery Rd. area have that we don't.....the biggest and most obvious thing is REPUTATION AS AN UPSCALE AREA OF SW OHIO. Middletown use to hold it's own in the 60's. Now, it is literally the butt of all jokes when the subject is town discussion in SW Ohio.
I'd like to supply a little twist to what you said about Middletown never being the city it was in the glory days. I'd like to propose that Middletown will never be the city it was USING IT'S FORMER THEME as an industrial/blue collar town. True. BUT, with the right thinking and the right leaders, heading in the correct direction as to the creation of a town identity, I believe it is not impossible in the years to come, that it can be brought along as a service industry town or with a technology theme, research or as a communication area. Impossible as it is now to achieve any of those, granted, as we have too many low income people and the educational level isn't high enough for employers to choose from but we do have the option of drawing the more skilled workers from out of town as commuters to man these higher tech industries as a start. Problem is convincing the employers to invest in the town, given the current situation. JMO |
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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My Dad was involved in the early Stages of the Developmental of that Area and I spent some with him there in the early Days. From that experience I will reaffirm what I said. The "upscale" came AFTER the Development.. Green Space and Interstate Hwy Access. Middletown can't compete and never will. |
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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I agree with Vet...Middeltown will never ever be what it was 30-40 years ago. I refer to West Chester as the "New Middeltown" because of John Boehner. Boehner I strongly believe is the driving force in the West Chester area and he has abandoned Middeltown. When is the last time Boehner did anything for Middletown ? Has he helped us to bring in industry and jobs ? Has he helped to get grants or anything from DC like he has in West Chester ? The answer is no (that I know of).
And Middeltown is like so many other steel towns. Just look around. The only contributing factor keeping Middeltown alive is the steel mill continues to operate. If anything at all happens to that mill we are dead. With Suncoke coming in we don't really have that worry,yet. But if Suncoke gives off the rotten egg smell so infamous with coke plants we are going to have an even bigger problem keeping residents & getting business. I use to drive east of Portsmouth every week and when the coke plant was cooking you couldn't breath in that area,plus there is or was a large area east of Portsmouth that was dead and abandoned right across from the mill.
So my answer to improving Middeltown and saving it from total death is you get someone like Boehner with the connections and the smooth talk to save the city. (Even though I abhore Boehner) Until you get the big guns to help then we'll continue to struggle. And IMO city hall is so full of corruption and self interest that the town will never prosper under current conditions.
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Hermes- you are correct about Boehner. He forgot about Middletown in the 80's when he was a West Chester trustee just beginning his "political career". The higher he went in office, the more he forgot about SW Ohio, including West Chester. Nowadays, his ego gets in the way of serving his constituents back home. Never hear from him regarding this area unless he's getting the rich kids a slot at the military academies.
IMO, it's the same story with regard to the Butler County Commissioners. The county government people in Hamilton forgot about Middletown years ago. We never hear any discussion out of county government about Middletown. Gary Cates visits Middletown on occasion, but when he is here, he is only participating in formalities with the city cronies. He doesn't interface with the people, nor offer any help. Has anyone ever attended a Gary Cates "town hall" meeting in this city? No. He hasn't offered to hear the people speak and probably doesn't care about our concerns for our city. Boehner, Cates, the county commissioners........all have abandoned Middletown and it's people. The only people to communicate with are the council people through E-Mail or at the Citizens Comments portion. We aren't listened to there either. No one of any importance is going to lift a finger for our town or they would have done it years ago. We are stuck with inept rejects as leaders for the most part. JMO |
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High Speed Rail??
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 28 2010 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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IRISNER -
Not once has any high level City Hall employee refuted anything that I've ever said on MiddletownUSA with contrary factual documentation. Not once! I speak the truth and know of what I speak whether emotion enters into my posts or not. The information is fact and not slanted fantasy!
I will try to withhold further comment on matters involving HUD funds and the City of Middletown. It's always been my hope to help fully inform the citizenry because City Hall is so crafty to disseminate "carefully managed news" on these topics.
I can only hope that what I've shared over the last year has given you and others a insiders perspective on what really goes on at One Donham Plaza. If what I say is distorted and untrue then you can rest well at night knowing that the bureaucrats are using our taxpayers money (HUD funds) wisely in revitalizing our oldest, needy neighborhoods.
Let's review what happens in a few years to determine who may be right??
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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The Mayor Of Detroit’s Radical Plan To Bulldoze One Quarter Of The CityHow do you save a city that is dramatically declining like Detroit? Well, for the mayor of Detroit the answer is simple - you bulldoze one-fourth of the city. Faced with a 300 million dollar budget deficit and a rapidly dwindling tax base, Detroit finds itself having to make some really hard choices. During the glory days of the 1950s, Detroit was a booming metropolis of approximately 2 million people, but now young people have left in droves and the current population is less than a million. The true unemployment rate for those still living in Detroit is estimated to be somewhere around 45 to 50 percent, and poverty and desperation have become entrenched everywhere. In many areas of the city, only one or two houses remain occupied an an entire city block. In fact, some areas of Detroit have so many vacant, burned-out homes that they literally look like war zones. And yes, it is true that there are actually some houses in Detroit that you can actually buy for just one dollar. According to one recent estimate, Detroit has 33,500 empty houses and 91,000 vacant residential lots. So what can be done when an entire city experiences economic collapse? Well, Detroit Mayor Dave Bing believes that the answer is to downsize on a massive scale. Bing believes that Detroit simply cannot continue to pay for police patrols, fire protection and other essential services for areas that resemble ghost towns. So his plan is to bulldoze approximately 10,000 houses and empty buildings over the next 3 years and direct new investment into stronger neighborhoods. In the areas that the city plans to bulldoze, the residents would be offered the opportunity to relocate to a better area. For buildings that have already been abandoned, the city could simply use tax foreclosure proceedings to reclaim them. Of course if there were some residents that did not want to move, eminent domain could be used to force them out. So which areas would be bulldozed and which areas would be left standing? Nobody knows yet, and those decisions could make a lot of people angry. Also, the city of Detroit simply does not have the money to purchase land and relocate residents without federal assistance. So there are problems. But other smaller cities are already doing this kind of thing on a smaller scale. The city of Youngstown, Ohio has been bulldozing a few hundred houses a year since 2005. Flint, Michigan has already torn down approximately 1,100 houses mostly in outlying areas. The program in Flint was actually the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes the city of Flint. In Flint, no residents are forced out of their homes unwillingly. Instead, the city has been buying up houses in more affluent areas of Flint to offer to those in areas that the city wishes to bulldoze. The program in Flint has been so successful that Mr. Kildee has been asked to help implement it in other cities that are in decline. And there are a whole lot of U.S. cities that are in a serious state of decline - mostly in what is known as "the Rust Belt" of America. Because of reckless U.S. trade policies, the once great U.S. manufacturing base centered in the Rust Belt has been dismantled and those jobs simply are never going to come back. So now cities like Detroit and Flint are faced with either dealing with the economics of decline or going bankrupt for good. But the truth is that Detroit and Flint are just on the cutting edge of what is happening to America as a whole. The U.S. is experiencing a very painful economic decline, and what is happening in Detroit and Flint could happen in your city very soon. Are you ready? |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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I am all for having a decline in the number of Section 8 Vouchers in Middletown and a decline in the poverty rate. If this meant that the houses sit empty so be it. Escalating the number of Section 8 vouchers to stabilize a neighborhood as mentioned on here is a fallacy and did nothing to stabilize the neighborhoods as is evident by the fact that the city now has 2000 vacant homes that need to be torn down. It Did nothing to stabilize our local economy, except for the pockets of Section 8 landlords, many who live out of town. Did nothing to stabilize local businesses. Did nothing to stabilize our local schools. Bringing in 1000's of residents with average incomes below $11,000.00 a year does not stabilize a neighborhood or revive a city, it has the exact opposite affect on a city. Having a waiting list with over 2/3's of the people on the list living out of town does not stabilize a neighborhood.
Just as was stated by a Section 8 landlord at the meeting at the Senior Center, one section 8 landlord walked away from 140 homes in Middletown recently. He was done with them, most likely made a tidy profit over the time he owned them and when it became to much of a burden/problem he dumped them. When you are buying homes for $5-10K if that much and HUD is paying $700-1000+ a month for rent, you can see who is making the money. It is not the City, the local businesses, etc. It is the Landlords that are profiting from these homes and much of that money is leaving town. Meanwhile we the citizens are left to deal with all of the issues and problems that arise from these properties while they are rented and once they are abandoned.
I personally would be all for cutting the purse strings to HUD when it comes to the small amount of money given to Middletown each year to deal with this issue and other HUD Matters. At the current rate that HUD is providing funds to deal with the issues in Middletown it will take over 50 years to tear down these homes. I would also be for a Tax levy in place of the current Public Safety levy to have the city start tearing down these homes on a full time basis. Whether they hire their own employees to do the demolition or farm it out on a full time basis.
Middletown will never be what it once was, You have to get past what it was and look at what it can be. If the cities aspiration is simply to be a low income city that slowly dies on the vine of I-75 then they should say that.
Can anyone explain how escalating the Section 8 voucher program has stabilized anything is Middletown? Anyone?
For Irisner if you have read any of my past posts you know I am all for tearing down buildings which are no longer of use to anyone and have become a liability to the citizens of Middletown. I for one am not a lets hang on to it in the hopes that some day someone will want to come to Middletown and rehab it. If it is abandoned and costing the city money get rid of it.
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High Speed Rail??
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 28 2010 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Questions regarding the explosion of HUD Housing Choice vouchers from 2000-05 need to be directed primarily to the following past/present City staff and City Council members: Ron Olson (former City Manager), Neil Barile (former Planning Director), and Kohler. They're the ones who proposed and/or approved the glut of Section 8 housing choice vouchers that 's expedited the downfall of our once proud community.
Now, we have Mr. Adkins who's made made so many bold claims during his time at the Community Development helm. Another new face who's moved their way up at One Donham Plaza was a former High Risk Sub-Prime home mortgage originator. Can anyone guess how many (if any) of those mortgages are now belly-up? How many (if any) Middletonians were economically devastated by the "faulty qualifying" schemes of those high-profit mortgage lenders?
What a City!
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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The section 8 increases doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm section 8 illiterate but as many state it's the landlords who profit so what I don't get is why city hall is catering to these landlords ?? My big question is...who in city hall is gaining by bringing in all the section 8 ? Is the city getting money for it ? If so,then where is the money and where is it going ?
My suspicion in any situation like this is who's greasing palms and who's palms are getting greased ?
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Hermes the City gets 22% of the Admin fee for Section 8 if I remember correctly and CONSOC gets 78%. I am doing this from memory, I believe the Admin fee is between $50-60.00 per month that a voucher is in use. In other words the more vouchers used each month the more money CONSOC and the City get. Now lets say that all 1662 vouchers are in use each month and lets say that the admin fee is $55.00 per voucher, that is roughly $91,410.00, the city would get 22% of that and CONSOC 78%.
So over a years time that would be $1,096,920.00 in Admin fees and the city would get $241,322.00 and CONSOC the rest. These are all rough figures, if fewer vouchers are in use each month then the fee would be lower but you get the idea.
Personally I believe when the Vouchers were expanded it was a money issue for the city. The more vouchers the more HUD funds they got each year. This is not a program that any other city I have looked at is clamoring to escalate the number of vouchers, like Middletown has done.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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While I disagree,your opinion is valid as laid out. What about a Tax Levy to do the wholesale Demo? I agree it's needed. I see no "Renaissance' coming in Middletown proper. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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So if you disagree....why? I would be interested in what you would do with 2000+ homes that are of no use to anyone.
I also stated in my post above that I would be for a Tax Levy to remove the current stock of dilapidated homes as fast as possible, but only for that use and not have the funds diverted to some other use. Waiting for HUD funds is a useless waste of time and money.
I see no "renaissance" of the the city as a whole as it currently is especially in Wards 1 and 2. The East end will enjoy a limited revival, but i don't think just concentrating on the land directly abutting 75 is going to save Middletown. The city has and continues to let its commercial areas decline and has no active plan that I have seen to bring them back businesses along Roosevelt and other major thoroughfares.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Well good. I too would be for Levy to rid ourselves of couple thousand Houses. Whole neighborhoods to create Green Space. I do mean Green Space too. I want the land to meet any State or Federal guidelines to be called "as good as Green Space". With the foreclosure situation, we might get by on the Cheap. I honestly missed you "Levy " statement and disagreed because I never thought that a large Levy for Demo would fly. Let's get the Ball rolling. Demo Levy! YES! |
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angelababy
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 04 2010 Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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Now, they have major competition from around the country for any company that indicates they want to relocate. Robinette has a snowball's change in hell of landing any big time companies in this town as no company will accept a low income/ low education level environment in which to do business. The only contributing factor keeping Middeltown alive is the steel mill continues to operate. If anything at all happens to that mill we are dead.
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