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Monday, April 29, 2024 |
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The Second American Revolution |
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Pacman 
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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 Topic: The Second American RevolutionPosted: Apr 02 2009 at 5:01pm |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council 
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2009 at 5:24pm |
 
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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John Beagle
MUSA Official 
Joined: Apr 23 2007 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Posted: Apr 02 2009 at 8:35pm |
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Well put Thomas Paine!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 18 2009 at 9:10am |
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The Same applies to our local government, until we march on down to City Hall and say enough is enough the City will not change and the citizens will not be heard.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Truth Teller
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Apr 06 2009 Location: Franklin Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Apr 18 2009 at 10:15am |
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Pacman -
Both you and Thomas Paine speak the truth! Keep up the good fight! We need many more concerned taxpayers such as you!
Nelson Self
"The truth will set the captives free Judy!"
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 9:50am |
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Sooo... Good suggestion Pacman on the idea of gathering and marching on down to city hall. We would need a list of agenda items for discussion compiled from this forum with specific information/past articles to support the approach. Anybody up to forming and designating a time and place to meet? Would a pre-meeting with all on this site, at the Library help? Anybody want to pull the info. from this site on all topics? Would a good starting place be the next Council meeting for citizens comments or is that a waste of time since Council refuses to answer any requests/questions presented to them --- you know--- because they're "just not set up to answer at this time" according to "Mayor" Lawrence Mulligan The Third, Esq.
    How about a meeting with Gilleland or are we wasting our time there also? Sheer group numbers may get their attention. We have seen that they are not intimidated by individuals alone. If this is done and we receive no response, will the next step be to contact the TV stations in Dayton and Cincy? (like Vivian did with Channel 12 about the cemetery) Opinions?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 9:56am |
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VET
MARCH ON CITY HALL!! YES...YES...YES. and...YES |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 2:40pm |
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Perhaps we could meet at Frisch's on Germantown Road or at Java Johnny's???
Oops...no...those are places where council meets in "non-meetings".
Here's a hypothetical question: If four city council members and a city law director set up a meeting at a local restaurant to discuss city business, but they used two adjacent booths so that a "quorum" would not be sitting at the same table, would that be a big enough loophole to get around Ohio's "liberally construed" Sunshine Law???
Here's another hypothetical question: What if there were no hypothetical questions???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 4:01pm |
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Vet
I need the next Council Meeting...then you can have all others.
I can design the signs...do we need a permit? Talking with Ms. Gilleland is a waste of time.."We don't have the money" I'm sorry to say the only thing that seems to work in this town is to "SHAME THEM" |
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 5:58pm |
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"Talking with Ms. Gilliland is a waste of time.. "We don't have the money"
Yes, Ms. Gilliland started the conversation by saying, "We don't have any money". She also said that everyone was in favor of keeping the vault, if possible. Then, after listening to Vivian she said she had one situation she could get a little money from. When the amount was discussed Ms. Gilliland said she could get enough so that the Middletown Community Foundation would release the matching grant money they offered of $11,000 which would make a total of $22,000. She also said that if more money became available she would try to get more for the vault. Vivian responded by saying the least she could accept would be $40,000 that it takes to do the stone work.
Paul Nagy
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 6:17pm |
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Gilleland- "We don't have the money"
Gilleland- One situation we could get a little money from- she could get enough so that the MCF would release the matching grant money they offered of $11 thousand. Gee, that certainly was a quick turnaround from "we don't have the money"! It was within the same conversation. Amazing! If the Gilleland Bunch can "find" thousands for the purchase and mothballing of the Sorg Mansion, they can find a few thousand for the financing of the needs of the cemetery. Through financing using magic, wizardry and trick mirrors, this "grand illusion" of a government can make things happen- ......if it meets THEIR approval.
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 11:54pm |
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"It was within the same conversation. Amazing!"
Vet,
Not exactly. It was actually a result of two conversations with Ms. Gilliland.
I had talked with Vivian on Tuesday night and told her I'd like to talk with Judy Gilliland about the restoration of the vault and that I thought it was very important from a historical perspective that it be restored and not torn down. Vivian told me about the Middletown Community Matching grant. She said she didn't mind if I called and tried to work out some thing.
On Wednesday, I called Ms. Gilliland and I was told that at the present time there was no money to restore the vault. I then suggested that it would be a great gesture by the city if they could find at least enough to match the grant and that would allow Middletown Community Foundation to release the funds and that would give Vivian $22,000.00 to work with. Ms. Gilliland said she did not want to see the vault torn down and maybe there was a way to find at least enough to match MCF. After we talked a while she said o.k. lets go for that amount and you can tell that to Vivian. She also agreed to consider reviving the cemetary commission and if there was any money in the future they would try to direct it toward the cemetary. I told that to Vivian Wednesday .
At the Thursday morning meeting Vivian stated it would take at least $65,000 to $80,000 to restore the vault. She said , she had an attorney and he she was going to file on the 22nd. She also said she would talk to those that had family members at the cemetary.
Now, some observations. 1. Threatening to go to court doesn't scare the city. They know they have done the mowing and that meets the state law as far as maintenance and they
could tie it up in court for at least a couple of years. 2. Isn't the goal to get the vault done and the cemetary restored? 3. Isn't 10% of something better than 100% of nothing. 4. When they are adamant (right or wrong) that they don't have any money for the cemetary
don't we have to deal with that reality? 5. I agree 150% with everything I have ever read from you about the cities manipulation of money, including the present desire to buy the Sorg Mansion in these trying economical times. It is pure insanity at best. 5. I would think that we would take what we can get and continue to work to get as much as we can to finish the job.
Paul Nagy
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 3:36am |
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Mr. Nagy
I would prefer not to discuss my meeting with Ms. Gilleland until after the families get back with me. I will make a correction in your statement however. The offer was $11,000 period...to shut me up and make my petty little suite go away. ...........and the clock is still ticking
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 6:43am |
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Paul- you stated- " I would think that we would take what we could get" as it pertains to asking the city to do what they are obligated to do, and, in the case of repairing the vault and upgrading the cemetery, the right thing to do. However---- don't you think that most of us on this forum are tired of "taking what we can get" from this city government? How many years do we as citizens, have to take what these people are shoveling and be satisfied with the crumbs they leave? How many years do we, the people, have to see our elected officials do as they please, ignoring the wants and needs of the people, cater to the chosen few in town and step on us after they are elected? 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing?- Why are we "begging" and "negotiating" with the very people that are suppose to be ASKING US what we need? This situation is 180 degrees from proper. We have a major anger level in this town coming from the people. Most people despise this city's leadership. The only reason there hasn't been a recall and gutting of the city building, is that anger takes no effort but using that anger to effect change does. We are all guilty of being too lazy to organize in numbers, set an agenda, gather information, make the proper contacts above this city's level in Columbus and change the whole ball game.Everybody, including me, wants to debate, argue and complain about the way things are, but none of us wants to meet to discuss a game plan to force these people out of office and out of the city building.
 We need to run the problem children out of town.
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Paul Nagy
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jan 11 2009 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 7:45am |
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Vet,
Once again, I agree 150%. I've been saying the same for several years now. How do we get the people to quit being so apathetic?
Paul Nagy
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 8:23am |
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Very sound thinking from Vet and Mr.Nagy.
Our city leadership is now similar to the castaways on some detached fantasy island located in the City Centre. The agree on little and solve even less. I don't believe that they trust each other, and are leery of involving themslves with "common citizens". Their televised meetings resemble episodes of Seinfeld any more. And THEY are the ones now fighting a battle against the citizens of which they cannot win. Their backs are now to the wall, and their house of cards is collapsing as we type.
Plus they keep chanting the mantra of "stimulus funds and bail-out".
I am a cold realist in the middle of the economic world from the perspective of a business owner/employer, family man and citizen. These "trillions,billions and hundreds of millions" of $$$ simply don't exist. It is all a huge smokescreen to pacify the masses and those already drowned in their own debt and inability to keep pace with daily expenses. There are few profits. Actually most businesses and family units have lost a LOT of ground($$) over the last three years, and it ain't coming back quickly if at all. Many are now forced to start over again or totally re-plan their futures.
I really believe that the local citizens hold all of the cards now.
We can cut off the funding by shooting down tax levys and renewals, plus electing new citizen compassionate officials. We may have to do it one member at a time, and it may take a few elections to settle on the right choices, but I honestly believe that it will happen. Most people are silenmt, however they lean more towards the thinking expressed here than towards the direction of our Council/Admin.
If you can't sense the circling of the wagons and bunker mentality within the city building, then you might be missing something.
Disappointed to make the mad mom upset with me.
We just exchange ideas here.
Nothing wrong with that, and plenty that is right.
As I always say--the screen name is the great equalizer, in that it is the message that matters and rings clear above everything else.
We may not agree, though we can open each other's minds to alternative thinking different than our individual life experiences.
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Truth Teller
MUSA Resident
Joined: Apr 06 2009 Location: Franklin Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Apr 20 2009 at 9:02am |
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Right on Spider John!
Today's commentary on the state of municipal governance Middletown style perfectly hits the bulls-eye!
It's my hope that more citizens who've seen or experienced the heavy-handed/arrogant side of local bureaucrats and cowardly elected officials will come forward to further expose the truth!
Along with this, the local print media has a responsiblity to do its' share of truth telling also!
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arwendt
MUSA Official
Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Apr 21 2009 at 3:47pm |
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These are great videos. Thanks for posting them!
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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