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Sunday, April 28, 2024 |
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Section 8 |
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tomahawk35 
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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 Posted: Apr 07 2009 at 11:17pm |
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Well, I was there and I also noticed that the council said several times to the citzens that they weren't prepared to have a Q&A forum but they seem to not have a problem asking questions to the person who was with the police dept. This is a bunch of crap where these meetings protects elected officials from answersing question from the taxpayers of this town. A total sham just sitting there and having no concern what so ever for the common people but fall all over each other to appease their city employees. Don't waste your time attending this kanagroo court setting.
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scrapmonkey
MUSA Resident
Joined: Mar 18 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 12:42am |
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Excellent presentation Vivian !!
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scrapmonkey
"Civilization begins with order,grows with liberty,and dies with chaos"~Will Duran |
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riverwind
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Joined: Mar 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 6:54am |
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The person who was there from the police department was there for a public hearing, not for citizens' comments.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 7:12am |
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Being the caretaker of the Middletown Cemetary, Ms.Moon could have probably notified Council ahead of time that she was going to speak and was requesting additional time.
That request would have probably been granted.
I went down last night also.
Pretty un-eventful evening.
I weouldn't want the job.
Marconi was correct in voting against the up-front payment on the service contract. A 5% reduction is too small for that type of agreement. Suppose the maintenence firm shuts down,is sold or has negative personel changes? Not a big deal other than emphasizing that these bureaucrats aren't business people and truly don't know how to manage OPM.
Had a great dinner at 56 Degrees afterwards.
Place had a good crowd--especially for a weeknight downtown.
Don't be surprised if Section 8 becomes a major issue down the road, much to pacman's enjoyment.
Well--Mr.Schiavone won't be returning(his current plan), so there is one seat wide open. Hopefully a centrist candidate will emerge, but expect MMF to be all over this opportunity.
We have Soppanish vs. Ford
We have Barge vs.Armbruster
No challengers for Mr.Marconi yet?
We need others to step up and make it interesting!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 7:25am |
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Spider sometimes I think you think this is a big game going on in the City. I get absolutely no enjoyment out of the Section 8 mess that the City has created. What all of these posts have done is raise the awareness of the Section 8 problem now in Middletown. Weekly I get people in my business now and when the state of the city comes up, Section 8 is one of the first topics these people bring up as they had no idea that the City had gotten itself into such a mess with it.
People quote stats and comments right off of these posts on this board, so it has done some good by simply raising the awareness, even if you disagree with it.
I also think the City is now cutting the Section 8 due to pressure brought to bear on them. As last fall the Council was adamant about not cutting and comments were made that "we need more Section 8."
If this matter is not resolved Wednesday as the City Manager stated it should be look for this matter to drag on for year 3 which is totally ridicules in a City this size. Whole Country's make decisions quicker than this council has on Section 8.
But hey we can always get together and have a Clean up the Median party on Roosevelt Blvd. and get our picture in the paper, that Will Move Middletown Forward at lightening speed.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Truth Teller
MUSA Resident
Joined: Apr 06 2009 Location: Franklin Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 9:00am |
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Not many Middletonians know that HUD recently announced an increase in Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) Program administrative fees (up to $1.1 million) that the City will receive for Contract Year 2009 (7/1/2009 - 6/30/2010). The City Manager is eager to 'tap into' these funds to the maximum extent possible to further expand her hard-hitting housing code enforcement blitz. Before long she envisions that Middletown will magically be transformed into the upper middle-income suburban Pickerington of S.W. Ohio!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 9:53am |
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Well pacman--I have watched and participated in this "big game" for over 50 years, and from pretty much every angle imagineable. I have a pretty good idea of what is happening. It is a tough balance. We have lost the upper inncome residents(and many who were upper income are now less affluent) and much of our retail presence. We are overwhelmed with low/no income residents, and everyone has to live somewhere. We have a large amount of low-income residences and neighborhoods, which are spreading like spring dandelions.
It is probably time(actually way past time) for our city manager and Council to lay out to the public exactly what is going on with Section 8. How much $$ it generates, and exactly how that $$ is used. Lay out to the public just what CONSOC has been doing, and what they will do in the future. Time to quit insulting the public by acting as if we simply can't understand or don't have any right to full disclosure as to how our city is operating. Also just who in the city structure has and is still benefitting from the Section 8 $$ windfall.
Lay out just how much the program has mushroomed over the years, why it has grown out of proportion, who made the decisions and what city managers and Councils have approved this activity. Also lay open the on-going negotiations as to what up-coming changes will occur.
It is our city, and we have a right to know.
City admin works for us, and has an obligation to keep us properly informed in a timely manner.
Enough of the closed door secrecy bureaucratic shuffling.
Hey pacman--we can all clean up our properties and our neighhborhoods on a daily basis. Easy to do, personally rewarding, and it can be contageous.
Why have publicity for simply doing the right thing?
No news there.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 11:05am |
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Last December, I was having lunch at the now-defunct BBQ Junction, which was co-owned by Councilman Schiavone. Having lunch at the same time was Council members Armbruster, Macronni, Becker and of course Schiavone (who was also waiting their table) and none other than Dan Tracy, who has gone on record describing himself as one of the largest Section 8 landlords in Now, Mr. Tracy was, I believe, part of that committee. If I am not mistaken, he went before Council when this issue was first surfacing and argued for CONSOC. While the minutes from the Housing sub-committee didn’t indicate who the two dissenters were, was one Mr. Tracy? And was he using his influence with the four Council members who would soon after that lunch meeting vote against the staff recommendation for a new vendor to sway things in his favor? I’m not making any accusations, but observing that meeting and the events that followed did not sit well with me. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 1:01pm |
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"Hey pacman--we can all clean up our properties and our neighhborhoods on a daily basis. Easy to do, personally rewarding, and it can be contageous.
Why have publicity for simply doing the right thing?
No news there."
Gee Spider where have I heard that before....let me think.....Oh I have been saying that for a few months here. Then there is no need for the Journal to flaunt the "Pride in Action" again....good. Lets all take care of our properties and surrounding areas and move on to the more serious issues. Sounds good to me, times a wasting.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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makeadifference
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: Apr 01 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 6:50pm |
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I don't think it is fair to but all the blame on CONSOC - interview individuals on Sec 8 and the landlords and they will paint a picture telling you where the ball was dropped. The city wanted the income they get from this program, but did not want any resposibility of working with CONSOC. So now that there are complaints they don't want to take any blame. You will find management cancelled several meeting with CONSOC to address issues. The Housing Sub Committee asked the CDBG committee to review the proposals, but the city manager would not allow them to review the proposals when they came in. Instead she created her own committee of individuals that would get rid of CONSOC.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Apr 08 2009 at 10:03pm |
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Sounds like a landlord to me--wanting status quo.
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 12:02am |
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swohio75:
Looks like Dan Tracy owns some 80+ city properties according to BC website.
Things that make you go Hmmmmm!
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Truth Teller
MUSA Resident
Joined: Apr 06 2009 Location: Franklin Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 12:57am |
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When the former Community Development Administrator assumed his new position with the City in January 2007, one of the first things he did was to revamp the now-defunct HUD Consolidated Planning Committee. In 2006 it met only twice and attendance at those "advisory" gatherings had dwindled to four and five of the thirteen members. The revamped Committee included four "target area" residents, two mortgage banking officials, three real estate professionals, one consumer credit counseling agency representative, two City Council members, and the Economic Development Director. It began meeting on a monthly basis and provided meaningful hands-on expertise in: preparing new guidelines/procedures for the Down Payment/Closing Cost Assistance Program; assisted in helping to establish monthly Home Buyer Education Classes; was provided detailed fiscal information regularly on the CDBG and HOME programs; and helped to facilitate a true citizen participation process in the preparation of the FY 2008 HUD Annual Action Plan. In the first half of 2008 the Committee continued to work closely with him in: examining/correcting deficiencies in past Housing Rehabilitation Program loan management; exposing serious losses of HUD funds that had not been reported; and produced "final draft" guidelines/procedures to correct/prevent future problems with housing rehabilitation efforts.
In late July of 2008 the City Manager's "reorganization" of several departments served to gradually diminish his role in administering CDBG and HOME programs via directives of a new Community Revitalization Director. Concurrently, the involvement of the Committee was no longer desired by the new regime as it met only one time in the following nine months for a hastily called "meeting."
The above summarizes the prevailing philosophy that city government knows what is best for the citizenry. Sadly, these actions produce further distrust and lack of confidence in those who are well-paid to administer programs and provide needed services.
The truth will set the captives free!
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makeadifference
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Apr 01 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 10:04am |
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By the way I am not a landlord at all. Don't want to be either. But go to the Housing sub commitee meetings and you will see what is going on. You will learn a lot. I spoke to individuals, it is the city that dropped the ball - if they would have been doing what they should have - there would not be issues today. If the city would have communicated at anytime with CONSOC, issues could have been resolved. You can not expect things to change if you do not have communication. There were 4 bids for this contract - someone asks why they accepted the most expensive - look at the bids and you will know why. One company had no experience in servicing this program at all. When you look at the bids why don't you also find out why the city manager hand picked her committee instead of listening to the recommendation of the CDBG committee - they were requested by council to review the proposals. The city manager stated in the meeting she would not provide the proposals to the CDBG committee. That was stated by her in Oct. Because that info was not going to provided - individuals took upon there self to find out what was going on - the problem was the city management dropped the ball - she did not want that to be found out.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 11:10am |
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Didn't the City manager state Tuesday that the Holdup appears to be CONSOC's compensation, I would think CONSOC is worried about the Reduction in Vouchers that the City is attempting to implement.
Personally the Problem with the Section 8 in Middletown is the Over abundance of it compared to Middletown Population in the County.
Who dropped the ball at this point is immaterial. The main objective should be the reduction of Vouchers in Middletown ASAP. As the Manager originally requested the program should have been turned over to the county and be done with it.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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makeadifference
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Apr 01 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 4:25pm |
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A few years ago the council (many that are still there) were the ones that voted to add vouchers. We do need a reduction - but how can that be done in todays economy. There is a waiting list a mile long of legitimate individuals with a need. Can you put them on the street. If they do away with a significant number of vouchers - quickly like they want to - then you will have a huge raise in homeless population.
If there is a reduction CONSOC will lose compensation, so will the city. Then the city inspectors will not be able to drive new trucks or have shiny new desks - this is where some of the city money went to - some of it they do not know where it is.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 09 2009 at 5:07pm |
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What does a waiting list of 500 people have to do with putting people on the Street. Those people have to be living somewhere now, don't they. If they want a Voucher from Middletown they have to be living in Middletown. If the Vouchers turned over at the rate of one every 2 weeks it would take almost 5 years to get to the end of the waiting list. That is ridicules. Does anyone know the turnover rate?
I have no problem turning the whole Section 8 voucher program over to the County. Just what does Middletown hold for Section 8 receipients, any good jobs....NO. Is it convienent for them to commute from here to West Chester if they have a job there...NO. If you turn the program over to the County the Voucher Holder could live anywhere in the County housing is available and near their job.
Middletown has become the Go to place for Section 8 and a waiting list that is far to long. The first thing I would do is trim the waiting list to 50 or so people/families, if we must keep the program. Sorry but that is the way it is.
You can not run the city based on 1662 people or families, it just doesn't work that way if you want to prosper as a City.
CONSOC I could careless about them as far as loosing money. City Inspectors keep what we need the rest can go. This is business.
As Mulligan said for the umpteenth time we must do what is best for the city as a whole, although many if not most of the time Council doesn't.
I have no problem dumping this whole program into the lap of The County as no one who currently has a voucher would lose it and those on the waiting list would have to go get on the Counties list, that is just the way it is.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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makeadifference
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Apr 01 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 8:44am |
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You would have more problems if Butler Metropolitan ran the show - that is why there proposal was not even considered. They have more issues. You do not have to live in Middletown to be on the waiting list. The waiting list should be reduced - however for every voucher that is given they go thru about 20 interviews. Some do not pass the background check - some do not finish there paperwork.
What needs to be done is city and CONSOC to have better communication of what is expected. Get rid of the individuals that have repeated police calls - put the families in these homes that deserve a chance - put requirements on them to help get them off Sec 8. Only allow them to have a voucher for so long (unless disabled) then they lose it. It should not be a way of life for people - it should be assistance in turbulent times.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 9:10am |
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City's Consultant:
"Wayne Chapman, former Director of Housing for the City of Cincinnati, with Management Partners Incorporated stated he was retained by the City of Middletown to help determine whether there are better choices than what the City currently has. Background points worth noting is that Middletown is one of two municipal authorities in Ohio. Middletown has 1,663 Section 8 vouchers – approximately 960 vouchers in the rest of the County. The contract to administer expires August of 2008. When they began working with staff, goals were to determine objectives that would provide more choices for people that use Section 8 vouchers; more housing choices; better matches for employment and social services; more choices for schools; create a regional cooperative effort; reduce the City’s administrative burden and maintain affordable housing in Butler County.Current program concerns were listed: choices limited to Middletown; administrative burden on City Staff and Council; demand on social services delivery; demand on schools; highly complex; heavily regulated and requires intense oversight. Options were analyzed: contract with current vendor; contract with new vendor; administer with City employees; transfer vouchers to Butler County Housing Authority. The analysis outcome was: transferring the vouchers to Butler County Metropolitan Housing Authority is the only option that achieves Middletown Housing Agency objectives. The advantages of transferring the vouchers include: provides more decent, safe, sanitary housing choices; initiates regional cooperative effort; more opportunities to match social service needs; more opportunities to match employment needs; more opportunities to match school needs; reduces the City’s administrative burden; maintains affordable housing throughout the county; does not require current recipients to move and provides housing oriented Board oversight. Disadvantages of other options were also discussed. Recipients must live in Middletown initially. There is some disparity because preference is given to Middletown residents on the voucher program. Limiting the choice if you do live outside of Middletown and you do get a voucher you have to move into Middletown for at least one year. There is some effort and expense in moving again so this tends to limit choices. The objective is to provide more choices." |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 9:20am |
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makeadifference- your post has alot of good points. The problem some of us have is the AMOUNT of Section 8 in the city. The 1662 Section 8 number for the city is over double the amount this city is suppose to have. The question often raised is why this city seems to want an overabundance of this housing that only drives this city deeper in the hole as to image and destitution. Freedom Court by Lefferson Park-- I wonder how long some of those people have been living there. Three/ Four/maybe Five or more years???? Reduce the number of people to 700 from 1662. Send the remainder out into the other communities in Butler County, audit the time span of each Section 8 resident in this city. If they've been there for 3,4,5 or more years, they must leave as they have demonstrated no desire to upgrade their situation. They've had their chance and blew it. After this purge, restrict the number of vouchers so as to control the number to 700 max. Section 8 injects a cancer into a community by reducing the median income, lowers the academic success, lowers the image, increases crime and lowers econ. development potential. This is the LAST thing Middletown needs in the shape it's in.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 9:32am |
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Makeadifference why don't they pre-screen the people on the waiting list and only have those that can qualify to actually get a voucher?
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 10:22am |
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To me--the ? is why it should take 3 more months to iron out this contract with an organization that has been in place here operating this program for many years.
What is the hold up? Sticking points? and wy did the recently placed administrator abruptly retire with little to no publicity or fanfare?
As usual, there has to be more to this than has been revealed.
Hey Mr.P-----I have never taken my eye off of the ball, and am focused on what we both see as the most serious community issue(s). Just nothing more to say about it at this time, but when it all gets back in action, there will be no surprises(hopefully--but we can't be sure and actually we should prepare for surprises).
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 11:15am |
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Who is Mr. P-----?
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Truth Teller
MUSA Resident
Joined: Apr 06 2009 Location: Franklin Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 1:05pm |
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HUD Office of the Inspector General - Washington, D.C. Sample of External Audit Reports - State of Ohio
Title: The Portage Metropolitan Housing Authority, Ravenna, Ohio, Improperly Operated Its Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program
Title: The City of Dayton, Ohio, Lacked Adequate Controls Regarding Staff Salaries Paid from Its Community Development Block Grant Program
Title:The City of Cincinnati, Ohio, Did Not Adequately Manage Its HOME Investment Partnerships Program
Title: The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority, Cincinnati, Ohio, Did Not Effectively Operate Its Section 8 Housing Quality Standards Inspection Program
Title: The Portage Metropolitan Housing Authority, Ravenna, Ohio, Needs to Improve Its Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program Administration
Issue Date: June 11, 2008
Audit Report No.: 2008-CH-1010
File Size: 2.23MB Title: The City of Cincinnati, Ohio Lacked Adequate Controls over Its System Reporting and Rental Rehabilitation Projects for Its HOME Investment Partnerships Program
Title: The City of Cincinnati, Ohio Lacked Adequate Controls over Its HOME Investment Partnerships Program
Title: The Butler Metropolitan Housing Authority, Hamilton, Ohio, Lacked Adequate Controls over Its Homeownership Proceeds
The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s (HUD) Office of Inspector General audited the Butler Metropolitan Housing Authority’s (Authority) 5(h) homeownership (5(h)) and its Turnkey III Homeownership Opportunity (Turnkey III) programs (programs). We selected the Authority based on a risk analysis showing that it may have improperly used the programs’ funds. Our objectives were to determine whether the Authority properly accounted for and used its programs’ proceeds in accordance with HUD requirements. The Authority failed to properly account for nearly $400,000 of the programs’ proceeds for more than five years because it commingled the proceeds with funds in its retained earnings account. The $400,000 consisted of more than $166,000 in 5(h) sales proceeds from four properties sold between May 1997 and October 1998 and nearly $232,000 in Turnkey III proceeds. It also did not use the 5(h) proceeds in a timely manner. As a result, the programs’ proceeds were not used to assist low- and moderate-income families. We informed the Authority’s executive director, the director of HUD’s Cleveland Office of Public Housing, and the director of HUD’s Columbus Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity of minor deficiencies through a memorandum, dated September 18, 2007. We recommend that the director of HUD’s Cleveland Office of Public Housing require the Authority to transfer from its retained earnings account to the applicable accounts the 5(h) and Turnkey III proceeds plus earned interest, submit a proposal(s) for HUD’s approval on how the programs’ proceeds will be used, and implement procedures and controls to ensure that the proceeds are used to support the development of affordable housing for low- and moderate-income families in accordance with HUD’s requirements. Title: The Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority, Dayton, Ohio, Did Not Effectively Operate Its Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Apr 10 2009 at 1:34pm |
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So Truth this means what, that BMH 2 years ago sold some property and put the funds in the wrong account? So................
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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